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Jamm Pakd Cards · « **on:** August 31, 2013, 04:26:30 PM »

My name is Justin and I am creating a new deck of cards to put on Kickstarter. The deck will be original art. My Theme is Coat of Arms. Each card will be unique art. Each court card will have a different coat of arms. Kings and Queens will have crowns and the Jacks will have Knight helmets. The number cards will have a shield in the background and the suits will be laid out on the shield. The Joker has a jester hat in place of a crown. I thought it would be cool to incorporate a little history into the deck. In the 18th century the Swiss and German culture used different images for the four suits that are common today. They used roses, bells, acorns and shields. So throughout the deck you will find the old images incorporated in with the new. You will find hearts with roses, Diamonds with bells, clubs with acorns and shields with spades. Here is what I have done so far.

Let me know what you think!

Don Boyer · « **Reply #1 on:** September 01, 2013, 12:36:03 AM »

Quote from: Jamm Pakd Cards on August 31, 2013, 04:26:30 PM

My name is Justin and I am creating a new deck of cards to put on Kickstarter. The deck will be original art. My Theme is Coat of Arms. Each card will be unique art. Each court card will have a different coat of arms. Kings and Queens will have crowns and the Jacks will have Knight helmets. The number cards will have a shield in the background and the suits will be laid out on the shield. The Joker has a jester hat in place of a crown. I thought it would be cool to incorporate a little history into the deck. In the 18th century the Swiss and German culture used different images for the four suits that are common today. They used roses, bells, acorns and shields. So throughout the deck you will find the old images incorporated in with the new. You will find hearts with roses, Diamonds with bells, clubs with acorns and shields with spades. Here is what I have done so far.

Let me know what you think!

I would simplify the indices, right off the bat. You want easy to read.

The coats of arms look not enough like real coats of arms. Look over historical coats of arms for some ideas. And making that one king with an eye on the shield looks a bit incongruous compared to the rest.

I've seen so many "aged paper" effects on decks these days, it's starting to become a bit overused. Consider going a different way - maybe a stone/marble background or something similar.

Not so sure about the inclusion of the German suits - there's MANY suit variants throughout Europe. But if you find a way to incorporate them into the coat-of-arms designs, that might work. Another option might be to include other nations' card suits as well - for example, the Kings would have the German suits, the Queens would have the Italian suits, the Jacks would have the Spanish suits, etc.

The short version is that the idea has potential but needs more work.

So - what are your ideas for the card backs?

Jamm Pakd Cards · « **Reply #2 on:** September 01, 2013, 12:45:24 AM »

Hey Don,

Thank you for your input you have some great ideas. I have some ruff sketches for the back but not really close to post anything yet. I am working with some ideas for a coat of arms for the back. I have some ideas on how I am going to have some of the weapons on the back. I want to position the weapons to make some cool designs when people fan the cards.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #3 on:** September 01, 2013, 01:58:37 AM »

Quote from: Jamm Pakd Cards on September 01, 2013, 12:45:24 AM

Hey Don,

Thank you for your input you have some great ideas. I have some ruff sketches for the back but not really close to post anything yet. I am working with some ideas for a coat of arms for the back. I have some ideas on how I am going to have some of the weapons on the back. I want to position the weapons to make some cool designs when people fan the cards.

Find ways to make the back a two-way design, the same when viewed right-side up or up-side down.

Find ways to do that for the shields/crests used on the faces. A lot of people are turned off by one-way courts and might find one-way faces (except for the obvious pip positionings) a little off-putting as well.

Bill Collins · « **Reply #4 on:** September 03, 2013, 05:06:44 AM »

I like your art and were it is heading, not a big fan of the indices but over all your off to a good start

Jamm Pakd Cards · « **Reply #5 on:** September 03, 2013, 12:30:31 PM »

Thanks for your feedback!

Alex Willis · « **Reply #6 on:** September 03, 2013, 01:01:03 PM »

I agree with Don on this one, you should have a closer representation to actual crests. There are meanings to heraldry designs to include royal ranking. My own family crest is a double pattern where two families combined, three talons over chevrons blue field and a lion over ermine. I would suspect that a Jack might have a split or quartered crest. If your goal is to make a artistic impression implying crests, I'm not sure how receptive the market will be. It seems that detail is what's really getting people going nowadays.

Jamm Pakd Cards · « **Reply #7 on:** September 03, 2013, 01:29:06 PM »

Hey Alex, You make good points and thanks for the feedback. I defiantly hear what your saying about the Royal rankings and you and Don make a good point. I did some research on different crests when I was looking for inspiration for my deck. Some of the images I put in the different cards were inspired by my own families crests. I wanted to take inspiration for the crests and create my own. I really wanted to make some cool images with a coat of arms theme and hopefully people enjoy the art.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, you guys make good points and have some great ideas. I will be able to take your feedback and tweak my deck. I am already working on some of the tweaks people have given me.

Jamm Pakd Cards · « **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2013, 08:10:49 PM »

Here is what I have so far with the Jacks. I am still looking to change the font in the scroll, so for right now I just put the name of the card there as a filler. Wanted to share with everyone the progress.

Alex Willis · « **Reply #9 on:** September 11, 2013, 07:23:48 AM »

If I'm being honest, I don't think the art is quite there. Look at recent KS projects like Elves & Orcs Bicycle Playing Cards and Iron Kings Bicycle Playing Cards that are fairly in line with your theme. The first did very well, partially because of the fantasy theme and partially because of the incredible artwork. The second did not get funded, but made a good showing and demonstrated that people want more than just people in armor. For a fully illustrated deck you will need something that's really going to wow them! Previous advice given was to make the cards closer to actual coats of arms. If this is your own artwork, then I apologize for the tough critique, but you are asking for advice to help you gain approval from a large market of consumers and frankly I've seen far better illustrations not get the funded. I think idea of a coat of arms deck has some draw to it, especially if your own can be found in the deck. I think it'd be very cool to even make it a teaching deck like Permaculture Playing Cards which uses more sketch like artwork. I would make each suit a different origin (England, Germany, France and Spain) that was known to use family crests. I would source the most common names from a set time in history (15th or 16th century) and represent those crests. I would stylize them in the more modern fashion of garish leafwork as the coats of arms were plainer in those times. See the two examples below, the plain and the garish.

Jamm Pakd Cards · « **Reply #10 on:** September 11, 2013, 11:28:56 AM »

Hey Alex,
Thank you for your input I appreciate your honesty. I started with a more clean look but I then changed it to look more like it would if the coat of arms was made in the 15th century. Where the coat of arms did not have a clean look. Here is a pic from the 15th century with the coat of arms being drawn on reused paper. The art was more simple. I wanted to go back to that time period and make it look similar.

If you look at the white and red shield in the left corner you will see they are very similar to my Jack of Clubs. They all have two symbols above a half triangle and an image below. As you can see the lines are not clean, the circles are not perfect and they are not perfect shields. The cards I am creating I want to be like that. Hope this helps to see where I am going with the old not clean look.

Thanks,

per the web where I found this image: Just a back ground on the piece:
"The coats of arms are estimated to have been painted in 1480, during a time when good quality paper was scarce and anything that was available was re-used. The banking records, only half-covered by the design, date from 1422-24 and hint at the extensive trade in wool and other commodities produced in Britain during the era."sourced from the web.

Alex Willis · « **Reply #11 on:** September 11, 2013, 11:59:49 AM »

Quote from: Jamm Pakd Cards on September 11, 2013, 11:28:56 AM

Hey Alex,
Thank you for your input I appreciate your honesty. I started with a more clean look but I then changed it to look more like it would if the coat of arms was made in the 15th century. Where the coat of arms did not have a clean look. Here is a pic from the 15th century with the coat of arms being drawn on reused paper. The art was more simple. I wanted to go back to that time period and make it look similar.

If you look at the white and red shield in the left corner you will see they are very similar to my Jack of Clubs. They all have two symbols above a half triangle and an image below. As you can see the lines are not clean, the circles are not perfect and they are not perfect shields. The cards I am creating I want to be like that. Hope this helps to see where I am going with the old not clean look.

Thanks,

per the web where I found this image: Just a back ground on the piece:
"The coats of arms are estimated to have been painted in 1480, during a time when good quality paper was scarce and anything that was available was re-used. The banking records, only half-covered by the design, date from 1422-24 and hint at the extensive trade in wool and other commodities produced in Britain during the era."sourced from the web.

Yep, I'm quite familiar with 15th century heraldry. And if you were doing a spot on representation of that specific period of stylized art, not "inspired by" then I can buy it. However, I don't believe the audience on KS will be willing to pay you money to produce it. If you really wan to make a go of the theme I'd highly recommend you join several forums who focus is on heraldry to do two things: 1, to begin to build a fan base. Cards like Permaculture launched and was quickly successful because they have a very successful following. 2, to get more insight into what people who are looking for that style of art would want.

Best of luck to you.

Jamm Pakd Cards · « **Reply #12 on:** September 11, 2013, 12:32:38 PM »

Ok, great tips, thanks for your help!

dtsang · « **Reply #13 on:** October 20, 2013, 11:36:01 AM »

I really like the initial design behind this deck

Jamm Pakd Cards · « **Reply #14 on:** October 20, 2013, 01:54:39 PM »

Thank you very much!

Jamm Pakd Cards · « **Reply #15 on:** October 29, 2013, 04:15:08 PM »

Hello, Here is what I have for three of the Aces, Ace of spades is still being worked on.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #16 on:** October 29, 2013, 08:37:54 PM »

Quote from: Jamm Pakd Cards on October 29, 2013, 04:15:08 PM

Hello, Here is what I have for three of the Aces, Ace of spades is still being worked on.

Those don't look like coats of arms so much as bicep tattoos.

Jamm Pakd Cards · « **Reply #17 on:** October 29, 2013, 08:59:16 PM »

Maybe I should put the pip on a shield like the number cards? I just wanted the aces to be a little different then the other number cards.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #18 on:** October 29, 2013, 11:29:54 PM »

Quote from: Jamm Pakd Cards on October 29, 2013, 08:59:16 PM

Maybe I should put the pip on a shield like the number cards? I just wanted the aces to be a little different then the other number cards.

They already ARE different. They're big and bold. Isn't that enough?

The theme of the deck is Coat of Arms. The name of the deck is Coat of Arms. Incorporating the Ace designs into a coat of arms would seem to be the way to go here. Like I said, in their present form, they look more like tattoo flash than ancient clan symbols. Perhaps if you want it a little more different, you could place the Aces on wood or perhaps a cloth banner, as one would do with a symbol that's hung on the castle walls, rather than using a shield.

Did coats of arms often have scrolls with writing on them in English? I would have thought Latin or some other ancient tongue more common. It's worth a thought - using a different language. Heck, you could try thematically dividing the coats by the countries in which they might have hung. For example, the Ace of Clubs looks close enough to a fleur-de-lis that you could easily imagine it as a French clan standard - so write that scroll in Old French (you'd want a standard's scroll to be written in the period-correct version of the language rather than the modern usage). One can be Welsh, one can be German, one can be Italian. Scottish and Gaelic would also be worth considering.

BTW: nice touch, incorporating the old German versions of the suits on the Aces.

A question comes to mind. We've seen your Jacks, and they're OK. But I think they could be better. Consider creating two separate shields in the corners opposite the index. Do away with the helmets. Make a simple yet regal coat-of-arms design incorporating the appropriate suit, and make the framework around the coat of arms more ornate and "royal" the higher in rank you go. The Queen's coats of arms can actually be placed on a silken kerchief of pink or white - if I'm not mistaken, female royalty were known to give a similar "favor" to a knight before a battle or a contest of fighting skills, either for luck or to indicate attraction.

Even simpler would be to make the Jacks with reinforced steel shields, the Queens with silken kerchiefs and the Kings with gilded shields. There's a lot of ways you can play with this.

For the number/spot cards, consider a mix of standard shields and tower shields. Tower shields would be especially appropriate for the higher-ranked spot cards.

Jamm Pakd Cards · « **Reply #19 on:** October 29, 2013, 11:50:03 PM »

Hey Don, Thanks for your input, as always you have great thoughts and ideas. I like your idea of placing the aces on wood like they would have done on a castle. I also like changing up the language, I would have to think about that one. You have given me some ideas to brain storm.

Thanks for noticing the old German suits, I have incorporated them though out the deck. The queens also have the old suits on the shields. Hopefully I will have those finished soon to post.

Jamm Pakd Cards · « **Reply #20 on:** October 29, 2013, 11:59:02 PM »

Hey Don, Just saw your section on the queens and jacks. I do have the queens with a cloth like background once the coloring and some changes are done I will post them.

Jamm Pakd Cards · « **Reply #21 on:** November 18, 2013, 01:38:07 PM »

Here is what I have for the queens, I am taking the suggestions and working on a syntactical background so this is just so you can see the queen illustrations. I am also still working on the words.

speedyy400 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 18, 2013, 06:11:43 PM »

I'm curious if you are attempting to make the backs completely symmetrical. If so, you may want to work on the Queen of Diamonds for sure. I was looking at the tassels hanging out of the sides and the one on the bottom right of the back is not a reflection of the one on the top left. It is touching the part with the words unlike the other one. I would say that it going to be one of your tougher challenges in making the back identical looking.

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 18, 2013, 08:37:14 PM »

speedyy400 - His courts and pips all seem to be "1-way". Which is fine; That is his artist style. As a suggestion though, he probably needs to make the back of the card "2-way" to be functional or he is going to get a lot of flak.

Jamm Pakd Cards · « **Reply #24 on:** November 19, 2013, 01:06:32 PM »

Quote from: sprouts1115 on November 18, 2013, 08:37:14 PM

speedyy400 - His courts and pips all seem to be "1-way". Which is fine; That is his artist style. As a suggestion though, he probably needs to make the back the card "2-way" to be functional or he is going to get a lot of flak.

you are right on Sprouts1115 about the artist style. The back of the card will be "2-way" for sure, I believe this is a must.