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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: john on November 11, 2012, 09:37:24 PM

Title: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: john on November 11, 2012, 09:37:24 PM
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/65338_10151090123367143_352102769_n.jpg)

"Laser Etched. Wood Engraved. Coming Soon. ARTISANS."
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: KPopFever605 on November 11, 2012, 09:50:24 PM
My guess is that it's probably a card clip. How can a deck by wood engraved?
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: john on November 11, 2012, 09:55:45 PM
My guess is that it's probably a card clip. How can a deck by wood engraved?

How can USPC make a card clip...
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Paul Carpenter on November 11, 2012, 09:56:53 PM
Lasers huh? I sure do wonder where they get these ideas...

:D
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: john on November 11, 2012, 10:03:16 PM
Paul just gave me a great idea... What if it's a deck that also has a clip to go with it like tendril.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: sr15 on November 11, 2012, 10:07:42 PM
how much do you wanna bet that they end up doing some kind of "join the guild" thing for this deck

I'd bet a lot on that happening
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: karak on November 11, 2012, 11:15:44 PM
Would love it if that was a clip.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Don Boyer on November 11, 2012, 11:49:34 PM
This might not be a deck at all.  It's possible that T11 might have finally decided to go into the hardware business big-time, making luxury pro-grade magician's tricks and gaffs.

Or it could just be a card clip.

But it doesn't thus far look like a deck.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Joker and the Thief on November 12, 2012, 05:19:43 AM
I think it's a deck. Very much like Paul's idea for the Aurums.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Don Boyer on November 12, 2012, 06:11:54 AM
I think it's a deck. Very much like Paul's idea for the Aurums.

Perhaps, perhaps not.  All I know is that I've never seen "Laser Etched" or "Wood Engraved" used to describe a deck of playing cards, ever.  BTW, shouldn't it be "Engraved Wood"?  "Wood Engraved" sounds like it was something that was engraved using a piece of wood to do the job...  It's the same logic used for the phrase "Laser Etched" as opposed to "Etched Laser" - the laser did the etching, so it's laser etched, while an "Etched Laser" would be a laser that someone carved etchings into.

But then again, this is Theory11 we're talking about - home of the very pretty box.  They've been getting better, not calling a box upgrade a new version quite so much, but anything's possible.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Paul Carpenter on November 12, 2012, 09:34:50 AM
This could be a very fancy laser engraved wood box, with a matching deck inside. I think that creating a whole theme of "artisans" they necessarily would need a deck to go along with it, and since T11 pumps out decks every month I'd be surprised if there wasn't one.

The engraving looks lovely, and I could see that being not necessarily a clip but a "deck sized" box to hold this special deck.

And yes, you can be almost certain we'll start seeing marketing about "joining the guild" and "being part of the artisans" and all that hullabaloo which is for some reason the primary method of late to attract people.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: thecardician on November 12, 2012, 02:13:51 PM
I think that if they sell the deck with a wood box, it would raise considerably the price of the deck. About the "join the artisans" could be a response to the "discover the secret" strategy that E used with the Sultans deck lol, just kidding, but this market strategies are so obvious that make me laugh.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Evan on November 12, 2012, 02:52:45 PM
I think that it's a nice wood box to go along with a new deck. Plus, the pic says United States Playing Card Co.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: vmagic on November 12, 2012, 06:57:42 PM
My guess is that it's probably a card clip. How can a deck by wood engraved?

How can USPC make a card clip...

It doesn't say USPC, it probably says the US of something.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Knobz1 on November 12, 2012, 07:07:17 PM
My guess is that it's probably a card clip. How can a deck by wood engraved?

How can USPC make a card clip...

It doesn't say USPC, it probably says the US of something.
Huh??  It says right on there United States Playing Card Co.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: CBJ on November 12, 2012, 07:08:12 PM
My guess is that it's probably a card clip. How can a deck by wood engraved?

How can USPC make a card clip...

It doesn't say USPC, it probably says the US of something.

Dude... just scroll the pic to the right.

Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: john on November 12, 2012, 07:10:09 PM
My guess is that it's probably a card clip. How can a deck by wood engraved?

How can USPC make a card clip...

It doesn't say USPC, it probably says the US of something.

Get your eyes checked please.

(http://i.imgur.com/ATF16.jpg)
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Don Boyer on November 13, 2012, 12:45:03 AM
The whole concept of "membership", starting with De'vo's "XCMers versus Magicians" and continuing with Skulkor's "Brotherhood", T11's Rebels and E's Sultan Republic, is nothing new.  People like to feel like there's a place where they belong in society, so providing an artificial place through marketing has been known to succeed before, at least for the short term.  It's easier to sell a "lifestyle" rather than a membership to the general public, but within this community, there's not that much to differentiate us in the sense that everyone is either a card collector, a magician, a flourisher or some combination thereof.  Since there's a long history of magic societies and guilds, membership is an easier sell to this crowd.  But without the depth of a true membership experience, the appeal wanes quickly.

Guys, honestly, I didn't even notice the scroll bar at the bottom of the photo.  I miss how the previous skin of this forum allowed you to more easily show an entire photo without the need for scrolling.

So - it's a deck in a wooden box.  Laser etching means easily mass produced, but this could still be a limited edition of some kind; in fact, I'm nearly certain of it.  I'm guessing this will be T11's big Black Friday item.  Perhaps they'll sell it much like E does with their rare decks - buy X, get wood-box deck.  They did it last year with the Brown Wynns, the blue JAQKs and the last of the White Centurions.

EDIT: late-breaking idea - what if USPC decided to go into "lifestyle" products much like D&D has with things like their lotion, invisible bookshelf and Ace of Spades bottle opener?  This could still be a wooden clip or box sans playing cards...
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: thecardician on November 13, 2012, 02:42:19 PM
"late-breaking idea - what if USPC decided to go into "lifestyle" products much like D&D has with things like their lotion, invisible bookshelf and Ace of Spades bottle opener?  This could still be a wooden clip or box sans playing cards..."

Hmmmm Simulating lifestyle, why I didn't think about it before?!? Let me add that to my list of evil forms of mass control!  ???
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: john on November 13, 2012, 07:05:00 PM
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/181996_10151092402757143_89469909_n.jpg)

New Pic
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: KPopFever605 on November 13, 2012, 08:28:33 PM
Definitely looks like a deck box to me. I wouldn't imagine it to be a deck clip because the wood doesn't look polished. After all, weren't Paul's Eco Clips polished?

Also, the pics says," Black Edition", which leads me to assume there will probably be a White edition too.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Don Boyer on November 13, 2012, 11:31:37 PM
Definitely looks like a deck box to me. I wouldn't imagine it to be a deck clip because the wood doesn't look polished. After all, weren't Paul's Eco Clips polished?

Also, the pics says," Black Edition", which leads me to assume there will probably be a White edition too.

Could be white, could be blue, could be red - but probably not chartreuse...

OK, that box looks sort of big for a single deck of cards.  Of course, the zoom could be so tight that the detail work is incredibly small, but it's difficult as all hell to get that kind of detail into wood, even with a laser as a cutting tool.

My latest guess - the Black Edition will be offered in this uber-fancy box (and possibly also in a less-expensive paper tuck box), while there will be other versions of this - if not now, then at some point in the future.

Alternately, it could STILL be a deck clip that USPC and T11 are selling co-branded.  But the odds of this are not as likely.

BTW, KPop: Eco Clips were at one time offered in a raw, smoothly-sanded version and a laminated version - never polished.  The raw version didn't look as nice or age as well, so I believe it was dropped.  I have one each of the original prototype clips; twenty of each were made.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: jmrock on November 14, 2012, 02:14:23 PM
Now that's what I'm talking about... Sick looking project... All silly geese should take note on how it's really done...
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: vmagic on November 14, 2012, 08:11:17 PM
Now that's what I'm talking about... Sick looking project... All silly geese should take note on how it's really done...

Seriously, based on 2 pics you make these statements? This will probably be another standard Theory11 deck with standard Bicycle court cards although I hope i'm proven wrong. Also knowing Theory11 I would be surprised if there is a limited edition white edition deck and other colors.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: KPopFever605 on November 14, 2012, 08:30:34 PM
Now that's what I'm talking about... Sick looking project... All silly geese should take note on how it's really done...

Seriously, based on 2 pics you make these statements? This will probably be another standard Theory11 deck with standard Bicycle court cards although I hope i'm proven wrong. Also knowing Theory11 I would be surprised if there is a limited edition white edition deck and other colors.
Have you looked at the pictures, does the box look anything like a deck. I don't know about you, but I've never seen a deck made of wood like that. I know decks are made of paper, which come from trees, but really?
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Paul Carpenter on November 14, 2012, 09:30:08 PM
Now that's what I'm talking about... Sick looking project... All silly geese should take note on how it's really done...

Seriously, based on 2 pics you make these statements? This will probably be another standard Theory11 deck with standard Bicycle court cards although I hope i'm proven wrong. Also knowing Theory11 I would be surprised if there is a limited edition white edition deck and other colors.
Have you looked at the pictures, does the box look anything like a deck. I don't know about you, but I've never seen a deck made of wood like that. I know decks are made of paper, which come from trees, but really?

I'm sure he was talking about the deck that will inevitably come inside this box. Theory11 has a pretty solid record of nice boxes, decent backs and completely standard faced decks. Assuming this is a collator box, the deck inside has a good chance of continuing the trend, though it would be great to see otherwise.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Don Boyer on November 14, 2012, 11:06:31 PM
Now that's what I'm talking about... Sick looking project... All silly geese should take note on how it's really done...

Seriously, based on 2 pics you make these statements? This will probably be another standard Theory11 deck with standard Bicycle court cards although I hope i'm proven wrong. Also knowing Theory11 I would be surprised if there is a limited edition white edition deck and other colors.
Have you looked at the pictures, does the box look anything like a deck. I don't know about you, but I've never seen a deck made of wood like that. I know decks are made of paper, which come from trees, but really?

I'm sure he was talking about the deck that will inevitably come inside this box. Theory11 has a pretty solid record of nice boxes, decent backs and completely standard faced decks. Assuming this is a collator box, the deck inside has a good chance of continuing the trend, though it would be great to see otherwise.


Collator box?  Please, elaborate...
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Evan on November 22, 2012, 01:57:59 PM
Black Friday. Black Edition. ARTISANS. Available Friday at 11:00am EST.

The box is beautiful! I can't wait to see what's inside!
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Paul Carpenter on November 22, 2012, 04:50:59 PM
From the numbers on the front, I'm guessing it's a 2 deck set, almost certainly very limited in nature. The box looks fantastic, but unless T11 strays far off their well-worn and beaten path (I hope they do), chances are good it's an amazing box with another amazing box inside filled with so-so cards...
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Evan on November 22, 2012, 05:04:13 PM
From the numbers on the front, I'm guessing it's a 2 deck set, almost certainly very limited in nature. The box looks fantastic, but unless T11 strays far off their well-worn and beaten path (I hope they do), chances are good it's an amazing box with another amazing box inside filled with so-so cards...
Why do you think the numbers mean a 2 deck set?
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: KPopFever605 on November 22, 2012, 06:55:04 PM
The box looks amazing! - Hopefully, they'll be at a reasonable price. - I might just decide to pick one up.
Why do you think the numbers mean a 2 deck set?
It's actually the month and year of print.

Edit: Looks like the box comes with a deck!
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Evan on November 22, 2012, 07:28:14 PM
Beautiful! This looks awesome!
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: vmagic on November 22, 2012, 07:48:56 PM
Seriously? At the exact same time as the D&D release? You got to be kidding me!
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Don Boyer on November 22, 2012, 09:53:05 PM
Seriously? At the exact same time as the D&D release? You got to be kidding me!


Makes me glad I'm not interested in getting Smoke and Mirrors 7...  :))
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: sr15 on November 22, 2012, 09:57:23 PM
well I'm already planning on getting split spades and S&M v7, and now maybe this depending on how the rest of the deck looks. If theres a really good deal on E or TBC I might be super broke by tomorrow night
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: thanamagic on November 23, 2012, 01:26:17 AM
im interested in this deck ^^ and the collector box cant wait too add it to my collection.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: LauR on November 23, 2012, 06:02:57 AM
The downside to the box would be the increased shipping, though I guess that would vary with the type of wood used.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: K on November 23, 2012, 11:34:37 AM
Hmm, sweet collector's box! I've got ideas on keeping some decks inside there including the artisan's of course!
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Evan on November 23, 2012, 12:24:21 PM
I just picked up a couple of these. Yet again, we have a nice box and a nice AoS but standard courts....
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Joker and the Thief on November 23, 2012, 12:29:26 PM
Beautiful. Nuff said
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: sr15 on November 23, 2012, 12:32:37 PM
just saw a "review" of these on the T11 youtube page, and I have to say that the box is probably one of the most awesome card boxes I've seen. The back design is pretty cool as well, although it suffers from the "two circle" design that I'm pretty sick of. Disappointed with standard everything else as well. idk considering how many things I could potentially buy today, I'm probably gonna pass on these for now, especially since they don't seem like a limited edition, but I might get them in the future.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: phantom1412 on November 23, 2012, 12:54:52 PM
It's not limited edition but you will get the different print date on the AoS on different print run.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: 10ofclubs on November 23, 2012, 01:29:23 PM
They're going to make those collector boxes unlimited?
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: KPopFever605 on November 23, 2012, 03:25:38 PM
They're going to make those collector boxes unlimited?
If there unlimited, than what's the point in calling them a "collector" box?
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: sr15 on November 23, 2012, 03:31:23 PM
They're going to make those collector boxes unlimited?
If there unlimited, than what's the point in calling them a "collector" box?

marketing
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: 10ofclubs on November 23, 2012, 03:58:24 PM
They're going to make those collector boxes unlimited?
If there unlimited, than what's the point in calling them a "collector" box?

My point exactly.
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: Don Boyer on November 23, 2012, 11:29:27 PM
I just picked up a couple of these. Yet again, we have a nice box and a nice AoS but standard courts....

just saw a "review" of these on the T11 youtube page, and I have to say that the box is probably one of the most awesome card boxes I've seen. The back design is pretty cool as well, although it suffers from the "two circle" design that I'm pretty sick of. Disappointed with standard everything else as well. idk considering how many things I could potentially buy today, I'm probably gonna pass on these for now, especially since they don't seem like a limited edition, but I might get them in the future.

I don't know why people get so hung up on faces that are largely unchanged except for color.  If it bothers anyone so much, why buy it?  The gotta-get-em-all mentality will be the death of some of you!

They're going to make those collector boxes unlimited?
If there unlimited, than what's the point in calling them a "collector" box?

It is extremely unlikely that these boxes will be available for very long.  However, that doesn't mean they won't make more on the next reprinting of the deck, with a different date on the box.

While it is a beautiful box, my card collection takes up enough room as it is - if I started getting all the tchotchkes as well, I'd be broke and divorced!
Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: MrMollusk on November 29, 2012, 11:25:00 AM
Standard court cards with only a slight recolor.
All of my rage.
Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: Don Boyer on November 29, 2012, 12:22:11 PM
Standard court cards with only a slight recolor.
All of my rage.


I like a bit of both - custom courts and standard ones with a recolor.


You should know by now that if it's Theory11, odds are they won't be custom.  Nothing wrong with that.  If you don't like them, I can dig it.  But many people do.  Some of my favorite decks have practically no customization to them, but they're quality decks - Gold Seal New Fan Back, Coterie Bee, any David Blaine deck (especially the Split Spades Lions).
Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: see_squared on November 29, 2012, 03:04:16 PM
I often wonder how many contributors on the forums understand the amount of time spent just on the concept and design of a deck of cards, let alone the back design and tuck box.

When you're printing thousands of something...you want it to be right.  You want it to look great, feel great and make sense.  You could easily slap together a deck of cards using stock images and vector graphics found online and launch a kickstarter, but that's about as creative as cutting images from a magazine, pasting them together as collage on construction paper and hanging it on your refrigerator.

Sounds like most people voicing their thoughts and opinions want every deck of cards released by companies like D&D, T11, Ellusionist, etc to only release decks that are 100% custom from the pips to the court cards (for example, JAQK's).  As great as that would be, you simply cannot expect that to happen for every release.  For starters, unless you are an artist (with a ton of free time), it is very expensive.  Secondly, the cards any company releases is their vision...not yours.   You can choose to purchase them or not...just like Don said. 

In my opinion, the Artisans are incredibly well crafted.  One thing Theory11 does exceptionally well is the tuck box.  They've consistently produced playing cards with incredible detail to their tuck boxes and it wouldn't surprise me to find out they've spent more time on the boxes than the back design. One of the greatest things about this particular deck is the imported paper used for the box. It's not white paper with black ink printed on the surface leaving disgusting white edges...they did it right and used solid black paper.  Bravo!  This combined with embossing, gold foil, and custom seals makes this stand out as a very well crafted and produced deck of playing cards (even without custom faces).  The wooden box is just a nice little bonus to those that would appreciate it.

Limited or not...custom faces or not...this deck (and many others) are far from 'standard.' They are cheap enough to buy a couple...add one to the collection and ACTUALLY use the other. OMG, mind blown!

Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: xela on November 29, 2012, 06:06:37 PM
I often wonder how many contributors on the forums understand the amount of time spent just on the concept and design of a deck of cards, let alone the back design and tuck box.


A lot of us, including myself, have designed and printed our own decks, or are heavily involved with those that do. We all know it takes hundreds of hours to create a good deck of cards, if not more, and that is only counting the design time.


Quote

Sounds like most people voicing their thoughts and opinions want every deck of cards released by companies like D&D, T11, Ellusionist, etc to only release decks that are 100% custom from the pips to the court cards (for example, JAQK's). 

To be fair, non-custom decks have a place and I personally love them. What I do not love, specifically, is Theory11's marketing of their decks. Having not released a custom deck since the Sentinels, they market every deck as if it was some holy bastion of artwork. It's never fully custom, and it's hardly anything better than decent. When a beginner designer like Paul from Encarded pumps out more intricate designs without a fraction of T11's budget, it speaks to T11's dedication to their decks.

They have fallen very far when it comes to quality work.

Also, they still market 909 Premium finish as if it were a thing. The veil had been lifted a while ago on the inner workings of USPCC and we all know the only options are Air Cushion and Magic. And yet, thanks to their marketing, we still have famous YouTubers prancing around telling their subs that the 909P is somehow superior and feels different. Yeah, sure these people are idiots, but on the other hand their subscribers don't know that, and buy into the T11 hype.

All I'm saying is, let's not consider T11 releases anything other than a decent deck made for practical use, and not what they claim it to be: A revolutionary piece of artwork that will change your life.





Quote
Limited or not...custom faces or not...this deck (and many others) are far from 'standard.' They are cheap enough to buy a couple...add one to the collection and ACTUALLY use the other. OMG, mind blown!

Although I believe their cards are the definition of standard (tuck boxes =\= cards), they are indeed worth the money and cheap enough to use and enjoy. They're not bad, they're pretty darn good, but I would say they are closer to garbage than to the greatest thing that has ever happened in the history of the world.

Disclaimer: I haven't payed attention to the marketing for the Artisans, but anyone that remembers the Monarch marketing will tell you just how fucking godly they made those cards out to be. I believe "pinnacle of design" was used at some point in their campaign.
Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: sr15 on November 29, 2012, 06:50:11 PM
if you don't count the jaqk deck (which isn't their design) or players deck (which is really just a copy of the david blaine court card concept), T11 has released one (1) deck with custom court cards that weren't just a recoloring. Given the frequency with which they've been releasing decks, I don't expect we'll be seeing original custom court cards from them for a long time, if ever. Unless I'm missing a deck, but w/e. T11 hasn't exactly been the most original company when it comes to designing cards, and really they're just getting by on their name alone at this point, imo. Hopefully they do something truly interesting with a design soon and break this streak of underwhelming decks.
Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: see_squared on November 29, 2012, 07:21:48 PM
Quote
All I'm saying is, let's not consider T11 releases anything other than a decent deck made for practical use, and not what they claim it to be: A revolutionary piece of artwork that will change your life.

Totally missed that part of the T11 description where they claim it will change my life.

Quote
To be fair, non-custom decks have a place and I personally love them. What I do not love, specifically, is Theory11's marketing of their decks. Having not released a custom deck since the Sentinels, they market every deck as if it was some holy bastion of artwork. It's never fully custom, and it's hardly anything better than decent. When a beginner designer like Paul from Encarded pumps out more intricate designs without a fraction of T11's budget, it speaks to T11's dedication to their decks.

I'm not here to argue or convince people that my opinion matters. It never does and never will, it's just an opinion, the same as any other.  But when people complain about something they have zero control over, it's annoying.  It's useless commentary, and lazy dialog. 

I just thought it was worth reminding people that for some, a deck of cards (something we all love in this community) is hard work to produce.  Speaking in regards to the Artisans, this was the vision of Simon Frouws.  This is the deck that HE wanted to create, not you, me or anyone else.   

Paul is a great designer, I have his cards and emailed him thanking him for his hard work and contributions to the playing card community. That was a vision that he wanted in his deck of cards.  If others liked his vision, they would support it. 

Welcome to 2012, where in order to run a successful business (e.g.  T11, D&D, ellusionist...and the like) you have to market your product and stand-by it...or else what's the point?  They aren't selling cheap unhealthy burgers to millions of people around the world...they are supplying a very small community in the world with cards and effects.  Not an easy thing to do and stay above water....unless you know how to run a business and market your product.

Quote
Although I believe their cards are the definition of standard (tuck boxes =\= cards), they are indeed worth the money and cheap enough to use and enjoy. They're not bad, they're pretty darn good, but I would say they are closer to garbage than to the greatest thing that has ever happened in the history of the world.

A 'standard' deck of playing cards is a deck of cards that everyone, everywhere is familar with...like Bicycle Rider Backs.  That's what standard means to me anyway.  The cards we all have, collect and enjoy are cards that i'm sure 9 out of 10 people wouldn't even know exist...so that's not standard.


Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: xela on November 30, 2012, 12:38:58 AM
Totally missed that part of the T11 description where they claim it will change my life.

I used hyperbole but let's be honest, they put so much fluff into their descriptions it's hilarious sometimes.

But when people complain about something they have zero control over, it's annoying. 

When people complained about how Ellusionist handled rare deck releases, they changed how they handled them. When people complained Ellusionist didn't care about the community, E HIRED people to interact with the community (not on their forums, but here and on UC). When people whined about me pricing my deck at $11 I reduced it to $9. I remember Russell having some complaints about his design on the Americanas, and he quickly changed it as well.

I'm not saying every company has to listen to what their fans say day in and day out. On the contrary, the masses are wrong half the time. However, when T11 continues to push out "meh" products one after another, people notice. Their decks are rarely the focal points of any collection anymore, and other than the White Centurions and Propoganda v1, I cannot think of a single deck they have worth over $20 (not counting the silly gold Monarchs).

T11 is indeed competing in a niche market, but they are competing against companies like Ellusionist that pump out fully custom decks fairly often, independent artists, TBC, D&D, DB, etc. What feature do they have that is above and beyond what others have? Their tuck boxes (easily the top 5 tuck cases are all from T11).

I just want to see the same love and devotion to detail they put into their tucks on their cards.

FYI a lot of my friends see my collection and they are always amazed by the fully custom decks. A buddy of mine ended up taking a few Infinity decks because of how stunning the artwork was. I've never had anyone comment on the "standard" decks though.

And I think we are talking about two different kinds of standard. In the world of custom cards, I believe standard decks to be either unoriginal, or uncustomized.
Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: sr15 on November 30, 2012, 12:44:49 AM
Black Centurions and Wynns go for over 20 bucks pretty regularly.
Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: xela on November 30, 2012, 01:11:23 AM
Black Centurions and Wynns go for over 20 bucks pretty regularly.
Wynns are not T11 decks :P
Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: sr15 on November 30, 2012, 02:29:33 AM
Black Centurions and Wynns go for over 20 bucks pretty regularly.
Wynns are not T11 decks :P

well they were sold by them but we're really just arguing semantics and I totally agree with the point you were making anyway. I haven't bought a T11 deck since red Jaqks (surpirse, not created by them) and a lot of what they've been putting out this year is snoozeland boring
Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: Don Boyer on November 30, 2012, 09:45:09 AM
Welcome to 2012, where in order to run a successful business (e.g.  T11, D&D, ellusionist...and the like) you have to market your product and stand-by it...or else what's the point?  They aren't selling cheap unhealthy burgers to millions of people around the world...they are supplying a very small community in the world with cards and effects.  Not an easy thing to do and stay above water....unless you know how to run a business and market your product.


Actually, such marketing has done more harm than good for T11.  Anyone new to the game and looking at the Monarchs today would say they're a decent, highly-functional deck in a gorgeous tuck box.  But when they were being released, they were hyped as practically the next best thing to air itself.  People were RIPPING into the deck, because in no way did it live up to the hype - honestly, no deck could.


Prior to that, T11 was promoting "version 2" of some of their decks, and people were expecting something BIG.  The subjects that come to mind right off the bat would be DeckONE: Industrial Edition and Bicycle Titanium.  People were told this was a totally new version and expected changes like when Artifice went from v1 to v2, or when Smoke & Mirrors went through their first four versions.  What the got were the exact same cards cut from the exact same deck sheets - with a new, embossed tuck box.


Add that to their near-total lack of fully-custom decks, and most collectors go "meh" when they have a new release.


Mind you, that's not me - I actually like their decks, though I thought the "version 2" thing they were doing was totally stupid.  They got smart and didn't make any big deal (or announcement of a second version) when the Sentinels came back in stock with a new printing (with better handling and much less warping) and a slightly different box.  They just said, "Here they are, back in stock, better performance."  The hype machine was practically in idle, and I've heard practically nothing good or bad about the deck since the re-release, while people are still talking about the "Monarch debacle".
Title: Re: New T11 Deck: The Guild of Artisians?
Post by: jmrock on November 30, 2012, 12:12:57 PM
Now that's what I'm talking about... Sick looking project... All silly geese should take note on how it's really done...

Seriously, based on 2 pics you make these statements? This will probably be another standard Theory11 deck with standard Bicycle court cards although I hope i'm proven wrong. Also knowing Theory11 I would be surprised if there is a limited edition white edition deck and other colors.

Silly VMagic... Trix are for kids... But seriously I based my statement on one pic... Not two... Wow... What a gorgeous set of decks with a beautiful box to match... This is what we call "Stunning"...
Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: MrMollusk on December 03, 2012, 11:04:45 AM
Standard court cards with only a slight recolor.
All of my rage.


I like a bit of both - custom courts and standard ones with a recolor.


You should know by now that if it's Theory11, odds are they won't be custom.  Nothing wrong with that.  If you don't like them, I can dig it.  But many people do.  Some of my favorite decks have practically no customization to them, but they're quality decks - Gold Seal New Fan Back, Coterie Bee, any David Blaine deck (especially the Split Spades Lions).

Good point, but ever since the Sentinels, Deck ONE, and the Jaqk cards, I've been aching for some court cards with a little "wow" factor. The Brilliant, over the top box and back with recolored pips and faces has kinda been beaten to death with the Monarchs, the Rebels, the Steampunk, and now this. I think that it's time Theory11 applies their skill at designing awesome stuff for new court cards, not a super premium box.
Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: Don Boyer on December 03, 2012, 11:23:07 AM
Good point, but ever since the Sentinels, Deck ONE, and the Jaqk cards, I've been aching for some court cards with a little "wow" factor. The Brilliant, over the top box and back with recolored pips and faces has kinda been beaten to death with the Monarchs, the Rebels, the Steampunk, and now this. I think that it's time Theory11 applies their skill at designing awesome stuff for new court cards, not a super premium box.


While they don't ignore collectors, T11 is primarily a magic shop.  Magicians will more frequently use standard faces for spectator recognition.  Their nod to collectors are the magnificent boxes - some collectors never actually open the boxes, keeping the cards on a shelf and dusting off the cellophane now and then...


JAQK Decks weren't even T11's design (it was modeled from a deck designed by the JAQK Winery), and DeckONE uses standard courts with recoloring, albeit a little more creatively than most of their other faces.  Sentinels are really their only in-house full-custom deck.
Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: MrMollusk on December 03, 2012, 11:51:40 AM
Good point, but ever since the Sentinels, Deck ONE, and the Jaqk cards, I've been aching for some court cards with a little "wow" factor. The Brilliant, over the top box and back with recolored pips and faces has kinda been beaten to death with the Monarchs, the Rebels, the Steampunk, and now this. I think that it's time Theory11 applies their skill at designing awesome stuff for new court cards, not a super premium box.


While they don't ignore collectors, T11 is primarily a magic shop.  Magicians will more frequently use standard faces for spectator recognition.  Their nod to collectors are the magnificent boxes - some collectors never actually open the boxes, keeping the cards on a shelf and dusting off the cellophane now and then...


JAQK Decks weren't even T11's design (it was modeled from a deck designed by the JAQK Winery), and DeckONE uses standard courts with recoloring, albeit a little more creatively than most of their other faces.  Sentinels are really their only in-house full-custom deck.

I understand the Jaqk deck and the concept with magic, but I feel like the nature of the "magician's feel" is diminished by the box. Every time I perform with the Monarchs, I get suspicious looks the second the box's foil hits the light. I feel like just producing one new deck with court cards customized to at least the extent of Deck ONE would do wonders for their card collector demographic.
Title: Re: Artisans by T11 [NEW]
Post by: Don Boyer on December 03, 2012, 01:07:49 PM

I understand the Jaqk deck and the concept with magic, but I feel like the nature of the "magician's feel" is diminished by the box. Every time I perform with the Monarchs, I get suspicious looks the second the box's foil hits the light. I feel like just producing one new deck with court cards customized to at least the extent of Deck ONE would do wonders for their card collector demographic.


One could argue that the DeckONE: Industrial Edition is no more or less customized than the Rebels, Monarchs, Propagandas or Artisans.  All that's different with the faces is their washed-out, gritty coloration.  But boil it down to brass tacks, and you still have standard USPC faces with nothing more than a color tweak.


(Having said that, I'm pretty fond of DeckONE!  But I like all the other decks I listed as well.  I can't speak for the Artisans, though - I haven't received mine yet.)