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Playing Card Chat ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦ => Playing Card Plethora => Topic started by: alvinhy on January 20, 2013, 01:37:03 PM

Title: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: alvinhy on January 20, 2013, 01:37:03 PM
http://sishouplayingcards.com

So heres an update. This was a project that was unfinished and unfortunately the first KS project was not funded.
But I have picked up this project and will be dedicated to finish it off by end of october.

Currently I am thinking of having this deck aimed at:
1. Magicians (two way back design)
2. Card Collectors (Detailed design)
3. Poker Players (Not too illustrative and custom)

ITS LIVE ON KICKSTARTER!
(http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/sishoudecks/sishou-four-beasts-playing-cards-by-alvin-cheung/minichart.png) (http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/sishoudecks/sishou-four-beasts-playing-cards-by-alvin-cheung/)
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: therealmackay on January 21, 2013, 04:06:50 AM
I think its a fantastic deck and i love the theme!

I will be backing you without a doubt being a UK backer, am sure American backers may be concerned that the offer of free postage is too good to be true though!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: alvinhy on January 21, 2013, 05:24:45 AM
Quote from: therealmackay on January 21, 2013, 04:06:50 AM
I think its a fantastic deck and i love the theme!

I will be backing you without a doubt being a UK backer, am sure American backers may be concerned that the offer of free postage is too good to be true though!
I thought $12 a deck including shipping is reasonable.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Don Boyer on January 21, 2013, 05:46:32 AM
Quote from: alvinhy on January 21, 2013, 05:24:45 AM
Quote from: therealmackay on January 21, 2013, 04:06:50 AM
I think its a fantastic deck and i love the theme!

I will be backing you without a doubt being a UK backer, am sure American backers may be concerned that the offer of free postage is too good to be true though!
I thought $12 a deck including shipping is reasonable.

When a KS project exceeds around $10 a deck with shipping, the American collectors start to gripe about it.  You're used to more expensive decks because you buy USPC decks as imports.  Yanks aren't used to that - a deck you consider to be of average price would be thought of as quite expensive in the States.

The best solution to that would be to find an American company or individual willing to act as a distributor for your decks to your American customers, so the decks bound to US destinations don't actually leave the country.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: therealmackay on January 21, 2013, 08:09:39 AM
Quote from: alvinhy on January 21, 2013, 05:24:45 AM
Quote from: therealmackay on January 21, 2013, 04:06:50 AM
I think its a fantastic deck and i love the theme!

I will be backing you without a doubt being a UK backer, am sure American backers may be concerned that the offer of free postage is too good to be true though!
I thought $12 a deck including shipping is reasonable.

Im not disputing its not unreasonable Alvinhy, im happy to pay the money to back you! 

You know the project better than me (obviously)! As Don says it may have been an advantage to find a distributor in the states to take delivery of the decks bound for the US, therefore you wouldnt have had to pay two loads of shipping... There have been a lot of kickstarter projects that struggle to pay for themselves due to postage.

Im really excited about this deck and cant wait to see it come to life!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Paul.Middleton on January 21, 2013, 09:52:06 AM
On a personal note, I love this deck. Absolutely beautiful and right up my street.

From a professional point of view, it's nice to see a UK based designer getting involved now that KS has opened up it's borders to us.

I dropped you an email alvhiny earlier today about your deck, really looking forward to seeing this become a success but i'm just a little concerned about it might not without a lot of US support.

Don makes a great point about finding a US distributor to keep the decks in the country instead of US-UK-US again (assuming that's what you're doing).
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Lara Krystle "Lane" on January 21, 2013, 10:19:10 AM

I noticed its in Pounds. :)
Great job on the deck! I will wait for someone to resell this deck though because I won't be getting anything from kickstarter for some time because its been kinda a hassle lately.

I wish you the best of luck on this!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Joker and the Thief on January 21, 2013, 09:22:27 PM
DUDE! What an absolutely beautiful design! I wish you the best of luck and hope this gets funded. Excellent theme and top notch aesthetics!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Yin on January 21, 2013, 11:46:27 PM
I like the back design a lot and the court cards  :)
And especially since it's a chinese themed deck. I will be pledging for a few and giving some to my uncles (one of them loves Dragons and one of them loves Tigers lol). I'm sure they will be using these a lot in their poker games.
And thanks for pricing the decks reasonably. :)
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: alvinhy on January 22, 2013, 03:13:14 AM
Quote from: Yin on January 21, 2013, 11:46:27 PM
I like the back design a lot and the court cards  :)
And especially since it's a chinese themed deck. I will be pledging for a few and giving some to my uncles (one of them loves Dragons and one of them loves Tigers lol). I'm sure they will be using these a lot in their poker games.
And thanks for pricing the decks reasonably. :)

Thanks for all the support guys. It means a lot! Without the help from the forum members here the deck wont even work out!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: therealmackay on January 23, 2013, 04:04:50 AM
Will certainly be pledging to get this deck early next week :)

Looks like you will secure the funding!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Don Boyer on January 31, 2013, 11:21:55 PM
Alvin, what the heck happened??  In the last 24 hours you lost about £1,400 in pledges!!

EDIT: whoops, just an accounting error...  sorry ....
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: GBAllison on February 23, 2013, 07:56:24 AM
With 4 days to go this project is only halfway there. This baffles me because it looks like so many things were done right. The backs are stunning, the aces amazing, box looks great, two-ways, USPCC, Facebook, early bird pricing, free shipping everywhere, uncut sheets, even two decks with different color backs. I'll admit that I'm not a fan of the courts' heads, but that's just me--I can't imagine that's the showstopper. What do you think's going on here? (Or not going on.) Maybe the funding goal is too high? Because of the two decks? ... Maybe the second deck s/b a reward level unlock? Maybe people are nervous about £ instead of $ ? I just dont get it. Amazing.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Nurul on February 23, 2013, 09:58:49 AM
I've just backed this up - I hope it goes through for you buddy, these cards truly r beautiful
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Michael on February 23, 2013, 12:54:28 PM
Quote from: GBAllison on February 23, 2013, 07:56:24 AM
With 4 days to go this project is only halfway there. This baffles me because it looks like so many things were done right. The backs are stunning, the aces amazing, box looks great, two-ways, USPCC, Facebook, early bird pricing, free shipping everywhere, uncut sheets, even two decks with different color backs. I'll admit that I'm not a fan of the courts' heads, but that's just me--I can't imagine that's the showstopper. What do you think's going on here? (Or not going on.) Maybe the funding goal is too high? Because of the two decks? ... Maybe the second deck s/b a reward level unlock? Maybe people are nervous about £ instead of $ ? I just dont get it. Amazing.

I'm absolutely the last person I'd want someone to ask on all things related to marketing and things like Kickstarter projects. My personal opinion would be cause the funding goal for these are high (is ~14000USD asking a lot for one print of a deck?). Could also be because the tier prices are in £ but if I'm not mistake the approximate $ is also there as well. It's honestly a gorgeous deck and absolute shame it is not already funded.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Don Boyer on February 23, 2013, 08:51:48 PM
Quote from: Michael on February 23, 2013, 12:54:28 PM
Quote from: GBAllison on February 23, 2013, 07:56:24 AM
With 4 days to go this project is only halfway there. This baffles me because it looks like so many things were done right. The backs are stunning, the aces amazing, box looks great, two-ways, USPCC, Facebook, early bird pricing, free shipping everywhere, uncut sheets, even two decks with different color backs. I'll admit that I'm not a fan of the courts' heads, but that's just me--I can't imagine that's the showstopper. What do you think's going on here? (Or not going on.) Maybe the funding goal is too high? Because of the two decks? ... Maybe the second deck s/b a reward level unlock? Maybe people are nervous about £ instead of $ ? I just dont get it. Amazing.

I'm absolutely the last person I'd want someone to ask on all things related to marketing and things like Kickstarter projects. My personal opinion would be cause the funding goal for these are high (is ~14000USD asking a lot for one print of a deck?). Could also be because the tier prices are in £ but if I'm not mistake the approximate $ is also there as well. It's honestly a gorgeous deck and absolute shame it is not already funded.

The goal is high, but he's creating two decks.  Making one with the other as a stretch goal would have been more prudent. 

The fact that the funding is in GBP is also a stumbling block for some.  Any kid can set up an Amazon account with a gift card, but you need a credit card to pay for projects in GBP.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Nurul on February 23, 2013, 08:56:39 PM
You can use a debit card too, doesn't hav to b a credit card
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Don Boyer on February 23, 2013, 09:44:33 PM
Quote from: brownmagician on February 23, 2013, 08:56:39 PM
You can use a debit card too, doesn't hav to b a credit card

It still requires a resource that most kids don't have, even in this country.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Nurul on February 24, 2013, 09:07:20 AM
In th UK, u can get a junior account or debit card as young as 12 .. I got mine when I was 13 with Barclays Bank. Anyway, I don't get why th currency is a big problem though - I honestly don't! Can someone who hasn't pledged on this product for that particular reason please tell us as to why it's such a problem
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Don Boyer on February 24, 2013, 09:29:21 AM
Quote from: brownmagician on February 24, 2013, 09:07:20 AM
In th UK, u can get a junior account or debit card as young as 12 .. I got mine when I was 13 with Barclays Bank. Anyway, I don't get why th currency is a big problem though - I honestly don't! Can someone who hasn't pledged on this product for that particular reason please tell us as to why it's such a problem

Junior accounts are available here from age 13 - with parental consent.  Not every parent gives consent.  Banking laws do differ from state to state, though, so I can't speak for the other 49 states, the District of Columbia, the commonwealth of Puerto Rico, etc.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: John B. on February 24, 2013, 10:37:25 AM
Quote from: Don Boyer on February 24, 2013, 09:29:21 AM
Quote from: brownmagician on February 24, 2013, 09:07:20 AM
In th UK, u can get a junior account or debit card as young as 12 .. I got mine when I was 13 with Barclays Bank. Anyway, I don't get why th currency is a big problem though - I honestly don't! Can someone who hasn't pledged on this product for that particular reason please tell us as to why it's such a problem

Junior accounts are available here from age 13 - with parental consent.  Not every parent gives consent.  Banking laws do differ from state to state, though, so I can't speak for the other 49 states, the District of Columbia, the commonwealth of Puerto Rico, etc.
here in kansas I believe its 15, at least the bank I have an account with does it at that age and older.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Nurul on February 25, 2013, 03:04:21 PM
Quote
Dear backers,

Thank you for those who pledged and believed in this project. Unfortunately, the project will not be able to reach its goal. However, please do not be upset! I will be making minor changes and maybe release one colour so the pledge goal can be around the £5000 mark.

Maybe a single limited edition deck with only 2,500 decks printed will be made.
Keep yourself updated through the facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SishouDecks

Once again, thank you for those who believed in this project.

Kind Regards,
Alvin

Maaaaan :( I hope it eventually goes through second time around
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: S.C. on February 25, 2013, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: brownmagician on February 25, 2013, 03:04:21 PM
Quote
Dear backers,

Thank you for those who pledged and believed in this project. Unfortunately, the project will not be able to reach its goal. However, please do not be upset! I will be making minor changes and maybe release one colour so the pledge goal can be around the £5000 mark.

Maybe a single limited edition deck with only 2,500 decks printed will be made.
Keep yourself updated through the facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/SishouDecks

Once again, thank you for those who believed in this project.

Kind Regards,
Alvin

Maaaaan :( I hope it eventually goes through second time around

what a bummer! I backed for one red and one teal. It would have been nice to have one of these in each color. I'll definitely be on board the second time around also.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: BiggerDee on February 25, 2013, 04:52:42 PM
This is very disappointing, it was a really nice deck. I'll be anxiously awaiting round two as well, and will back that effort as well!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Nurul on February 25, 2013, 05:05:06 PM
I know, so disappointing. All th time n effort he put into making it, he deserves much more backers and pledges. Teal deck sounded awesome
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: S.C. on February 25, 2013, 09:06:07 PM
Quote from: brownmagician on February 25, 2013, 05:05:06 PM
I know, so disappointing. All th time n effort he put into making it, he deserves much more backers and pledges. Teal deck sounded awesome

on that note I almost hope he decides to re launch it as a teal deck (if he only plans on doing one), I don't know why (other than there a great deck handling wise) but I'm digging the teal vibe on the legends decks. :)
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Nurul on February 25, 2013, 09:18:17 PM
yup, th teal colour looks awesome on th legends deck and I'm sure it would on these decks too .. Purple and teal r starting to show up more n more on cards nowadays, and that ain't a bad thing :)
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Nurul on September 16, 2013, 06:27:52 PM
Just a tiny update, rather a sneak preview of what's to come from Alvin Cheung.
Photo taken from his FB page.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: MrMollusk on September 16, 2013, 07:15:05 PM
Oh my god, PLEASE be a re-release...
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Nurul on September 16, 2013, 07:46:48 PM
Quote from: MrMollusk on September 16, 2013, 07:15:05 PM
Oh my god, PLEASE be a re-release...

Technically it never got released in the first place, so wouldn't be a re-release BUT I did message him and he said he's working on the teal deck and hopefully will have it up and running soon :)
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Michael on September 16, 2013, 10:07:50 PM
Yes! I remember being real excited about these when the were released and quite disappointed when the funding fell short. I'm ready to be on board once I get the money and these are live.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Rob Wright on September 16, 2013, 10:34:06 PM
I'm shocked that didn't get funded the first time. I think it has something to do with the UK £ pricing, and having to put your credit card info in on KS- not Amazon.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: PrincessTrouble on September 17, 2013, 11:36:26 AM
Great news.  I'll be pledging again for this deck.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: ronyo_faukx on September 21, 2013, 09:41:56 AM
Quote from: PrincessTrouble on September 17, 2013, 11:36:26 AM
Great news.  I'll be pledging again for this deck.

Same here. I might pledge for more decks to help get it funded, then sell off the excess on eBay once all the derps have realised that they missed out of getting a seriously sweet looking deck.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Yashi on September 30, 2014, 11:20:05 AM
From the SiShou Facebook page.
"Work in progress new tuck box design..."
(https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10639623_717848851596950_8597938863539613549_n.png?oh=40b38a430a5d07946dcb308796a6c87a&oe=548480FB)

Here's the old design for comparison
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10703830_717849431596892_4168072707165720664_n.jpg?oh=a4494ddc74947cd817e74302425cc486&oe=54B4BE8A&__gda__=1421026528_961e31dfa6eb07c2ee2e75abb43753b2)

Check out the Facebook page here
https://www.facebook.com/SishouDecks (https://www.facebook.com/SishouDecks)
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Nurul on September 30, 2014, 11:49:53 AM
I was keeping quiet about this, and now u beat me to it :(

I've been having lengthy discussions with Alvin regarding the relaunch of this deck.

He's making some tweaks here and there. I threw some names at him to talk to about getting the best out of this project.
I mentioned LPCC and EPCC, hoping he goes with one of these guys. Also, looking for a reasonable fulfilment centre for distribution in the US. Mentioned KWP, does anyone know of any others?
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: runIt on September 30, 2014, 12:12:58 PM
Quote from: Nurul on September 30, 2014, 11:49:53 AM
I was keeping quiet about this, and now u beat me to it :(

I've been having lengthy discussions with Alvin regarding the relaunch of this deck.

He's making some tweaks here and there. I threw some names at him to talk to about getting the best out of this project.
I mentioned LPCC and EPCC, hoping he goes with one of these guys. Also, looking for a reasonable fulfilment centre for distribution in the US. Mentioned KWP, does anyone know of any others?

Pokerstud52 of eBay. My best bet.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Nurul on September 30, 2014, 12:26:17 PM
Quote from: runIt on September 30, 2014, 12:12:58 PM
Pokerstud52 of eBay. My best bet.

As a fulfillment centre? I'm pretty sure he's just a reseller, no?
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Anthony on September 30, 2014, 12:47:30 PM
Beautiful project, can't wait to see more on it and about it  ;)
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Nurul on September 30, 2014, 01:37:20 PM
Here's a snap I got sent of the tuck. He just printed it and assembled it, no cards, just a paper tuck just to see what it looks like in the flesh.

The blue is a possibility, but I'm pretty sure he'll stick with the original teal colour. Looking at having the red deck as a stretch goal.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Don Boyer on September 30, 2014, 11:47:16 PM
This was one of my favorite decks to fail getting funded on Kickstarter.  The design was great but he was looking to make both red and blue decks right off the bat, giving him a goal that was simply too high to reach for a first-timer such as he was.  Remember, this was "pre-Jackson", when Kickstarter hadn't yet exploded with deck projects - few projects offered two deck right at the starting gate, usually saving the second deck as a stretch goal.

Any word on design changes, or is it (I hope) essentially the same deck?

Regarding fulfillment, Nurul, yes, a reseller can also act as a fulfillment center.  All a fulfillment center does is take your decks and a list of your outstanding orders, then fills those orders by packing up the right decks and sending them to the right people.  Throw in a cash register and you have a deck reseller.  It's simply a matter of whether the retailer is interested in doing the work and sets an acceptable price.  Murphy's Magic does fulfillment, but they're primarily a wholesaler, selling to other magic shops at wholesale prices so they can sell them at retail prices.

There are MANY companies throughout the US that offer fulfillment services, but it's a matter of finding one that offers the quality of service the typical deck collector will insist upon.  The problem is that fulfillers will want to use the least expensive materials they can find for packaging (a buck not spent on bubble wrap or cardboard boxes is a buck spent on more fun things like payroll, health insurance and retirement plans), and this often results in damaged goods reaching the customer.  Plus there's the fact that most of the world sees a playing card deck and thinks, "Oh, it's just playing cards, they're pretty cheap, I get these for a buck at the dollar store," which results in the company's packing and shipping employees not treating them like rare or expensive objects.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Nurul on October 01, 2014, 05:42:35 AM
He's finishing up designs, aim is to finish up by next week. Slight changes in the tuck, colour scheme is being played around with too. He's most likely doing the red deck as a stretch goal, possibly changing up the court designs for it. There's no confirmation of that yet.
In terms of fulfilment, he's looking at a few companies. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated.
Looking to launch late mid-late October.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Nurul on October 01, 2014, 11:17:29 AM
Do you prefer blue or black pips?
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Nurul on October 01, 2014, 02:59:00 PM
Ace of hearts - feedback appreciated
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Don Boyer on October 01, 2014, 05:38:29 PM
Blue or black, both look good.  Perhaps the black will provide more contrast?

The cards look good, plain and simple!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: alvinhy on October 02, 2014, 07:06:33 AM
Hey Don!

Been reading through the previous comments of yours to improve on this deck.
I think this should be moved to the "work in progress" forum do you think?

Heres the latest Ace of Clubs
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Nurul on October 02, 2014, 01:36:34 PM
Here's diptych jokers
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: PrincessTrouble on October 02, 2014, 03:04:11 PM
Quote from: Nurul on October 01, 2014, 11:17:29 AM
Do you prefer blue or black pips?

I prefer black.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Nurul on October 02, 2014, 03:19:40 PM
Must admit, black definitely make it pop.
Black as the small indices, and blue as the middle pips?
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: alvinhy on October 03, 2014, 11:12:51 AM
Based on some feedback, I decided to scrap the "human" court cards, instead I will go with the Beast theme and have each beast represent its suit.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Anthony on October 03, 2014, 12:17:14 PM
You know what, I'm diggin' that Alvin  ;)
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: alvinhy on October 03, 2014, 01:08:18 PM
Quote from: Anthony on October 03, 2014, 12:17:14 PM
You know what, I'm diggin' that Alvin  ;)

Hey Anthony! thanks a lot! The courts are almost complete.
PS: I replied to your email yesterday.

Latest court: King of Hearts
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Don Boyer on October 03, 2014, 04:24:45 PM
I kinda miss the human courts, but these are pretty cool as well.

If only there weren't so many dragon decks all coming out at once - it's going to be tough getting attention and market share to all of them.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Nurul on October 03, 2014, 04:44:51 PM
This isn't a dragon deck. It's based around the four beasts. There's an equal amount of dragon, turtle, tiger and vermilion bird in this deck.
When it launches, I'm pretty sure Alvin will make it clear of the kind of deck it is.
I can understand why people might think it's a dragon based deck, given the AoS being a dragon, and when people think mythical chinese creature, they think dragon.
I'll be lending a hand writing up a little history on these creatures and presenting it in a book form along with his art.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Don Boyer on October 03, 2014, 04:57:28 PM
Quote from: Nurul on October 03, 2014, 04:44:51 PM
This isn't a dragon deck though. It's based around the four beasts. There's an equal amount of dragon, turtle, tiger and vermilion bird in this deck.
When it launches, I'm pretty sure Alvin will make it clear of the kind of deck it is. I can understand why people might think it's a dragon based deck, given the AoS being a dragon, and when people think mythical chinese creature, they think dragon.
I'll be lending a hand writing up a little history on these creatures and presenting it in a book form along with his art.

I know that, you know that - but will everyone taking a quick glance at the project know that?  I never hear people outside of Asia or Asia-philes think "mythical Chinese creature" - they just think "dragon".

It's something you need to make clear as crystal from the very beginning of the launch, or people will just say "dragon deck".
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Nurul on October 03, 2014, 05:08:12 PM
Well, four beasts will be in the title, hopefully that will engage people to read up on it a little more :)

I'm curious to know what others think. When you first glance at the box or title, what comes to mind?
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: alvinhy on October 03, 2014, 05:42:26 PM
I think Don is right, I need to emphasise its not jus a dragon deck.
Need to focus on it as Chinese FOUR BEASTS.

Maybe when I showcase the deck in kickstarted I will put more elements like the turtle tiger and bird rather than the dragon.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Don Boyer on October 04, 2014, 12:16:43 AM
Quote from: Nurul on October 03, 2014, 05:08:12 PM
Well, four beasts will be in the title, hopefully that will engage people to read up on it a little more :)

I'm curious to know what others think. When you first glance at the box or title, what comes to mind?

If you're expecting Americans to read, you've got two strikes against you already!

There's truth to the statement, "If you want to keep a secret, write it in a book," particularly when applied to modern American culture.

All that comes to mind when I see the current box design is "Asian culture" - it looks like an Asian design, but that's as far as that goes.  Any beast imagery is way too small to grab the attention of a casual observer.

Quote from: alvinhy on October 03, 2014, 05:42:26 PM
I think Don is right, I need to emphasise its not jus a dragon deck.
Need to focus on it as Chinese FOUR BEASTS.

Maybe when I showcase the deck in kickstarted I will put more elements like the turtle tiger and bird rather than the dragon.

I would suggest taking a design that's closer to your diptych joker and making THAT your box art - and make it big and colorful.  Then we can see the art up front and know it's not just dragons.

A landscape-oriented piece of art like that would look gorgeous on a side-loading tuck box!

Picture this: a four-creature art spread on the box side without the tuck opening - it looks great and is entirely unbroken.  No words, no nothing, just that beautiful art spread.  On the opposite side, the tuck flap that's exposed can have the deck's title, while the remainder of that side of the box can have the card back design on it.

I think it would look gorgeous.

In fact, if you ask me, this entire design could do with some more color.  I love the art, but in just two colors it comes across as a bit flat.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Rob Wright on October 04, 2014, 01:02:39 AM
The first time I saw this deck concept, I really liked it. I still think it's great, but I do see some of what Don is talking about. The whole Dragon concept doesn't bother me. I would expect that with an Asian themed deck.

This is what I see at first glance of the tuck
The Dragon and the Tiger look almost alike. I didn't see a tiger at first- possible fix maybe some thin lines on the Tiger.
The Bird looks a little like a flying Dragon. Not sure what to do there
Forgive me for being ignorant about Asian creatures, but is it suppose to be a Turtle/Snake hybrid creature, or a Turtle with snakes on it? Kinda looks like loch ness to me on the tuck.

The KOH looks like Dragon tails with talons- JMO.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: alvinhy on October 04, 2014, 07:13:39 AM
Thanks for all the feedback!  :D
I think some work will need to be done on the box to make it more intricate.
The imprints of the beasts on the front of the deck are actually the historical prints.

They were first found printed on stone in 2BC i think.
So its a matter of keeping it historically accurate or not.

Also the turtle, yes there is a snake wrapped around it, i need to check the history books why this is though lol

I'll be tweaking a lot of the design for the court cards to make it look better.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Anthony on October 07, 2014, 02:40:43 PM
Really liking the work going into this Alvin, I think your research and "Tweeks" will pay off in the end, nice job!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: PurpleIce on October 07, 2014, 03:36:05 PM
Quote from: Don Boyer on October 04, 2014, 12:16:43 AM

In fact, if you ask me, this entire design could do with some more color.  I love the art, but in just two colors it comes across as a bit flat.

I actually think just having two colours look great. It is a little flat, but you probably can play with the different tones of the colour to create more depth in the creatures, but i prefer to stick it to just 2 hues rather than a whole bunch of colours personally.

If not, you can consider using the colours that each beast represents, so you have 1 colour for each suit...but i really still prefer the 2.  :P

I also hope you can somehow make the chinese characters on the tuck more prominent, and the characters of the beast into the courts, hopefully without making it look to cluttered.

I'm sure you can find most information on google, but if you need any help, just drop me a message and i can check with my wife about all the stories behind all these. She should know a thing or two.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: alvinhy on October 07, 2014, 07:53:33 PM
Quote from: PurpleIce on October 07, 2014, 03:36:05 PM
Quote from: Don Boyer on October 04, 2014, 12:16:43 AM

In fact, if you ask me, this entire design could do with some more color.  I love the art, but in just two colors it comes across as a bit flat.

I actually think just having two colours look great. It is a little flat, but you probably can play with the different tones of the colour to create more depth in the creatures, but i prefer to stick it to just 2 hues rather than a whole bunch of colours personally.

If not, you can consider using the colours that each beast represents, so you have 1 colour for each suit...but i really still prefer the 2.  :P

I also hope you can somehow make the chinese characters on the tuck more prominent, and the characters of the beast into the courts, hopefully without making it look to cluttered.

I'm sure you can find most information on google, but if you need any help, just drop me a message and i can check with my wife about all the stories behind all these. She should know a thing or two.

I was thinking of having some Chinese characters for each beast court card down the side, might add some flare to the design.

Also, I am trying to work out the costs of things here. Anyone know what the average deck of cards cost?

Made a nice little table of what I'm aiming for. Do you think the price is reasonable?
This is for US includes shipping.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Rob Wright on October 08, 2014, 01:31:29 AM
I would say that is real fare pricing. Not that I want to see higher prices, but I would say there is a little room on the higher tiers for more money.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Don Boyer on October 08, 2014, 01:50:05 AM
Quote from: alvinhy on October 07, 2014, 07:53:33 PM

I was thinking of having some Chinese characters for each beast court card down the side, might add some flare to the design.

Also, I am trying to work out the costs of things here. Anyone know what the average deck of cards cost?

Made a nice little table of what I'm aiming for. Do you think the price is reasonable?
This is for US includes shipping.

The average deck?  Are you planning on making an average deck?  :))  When it comes to production cost, there's no one-size-fits-all cost to make a deck.  Anything from the added features (or lack thereof) to your relationship with the printer can impact your end-result per-deck cost on a given project.  You might get a quote from a printer that's different from what someone else will get from the same printer for what is essentially the same project in terms of features and processes required to make each design into small, rectangular, cellophane-wrapped stacks of paper.

The price points you listed in the mini-spreadsheet look fine to me, especially as you get into discounting the larger-volume orders on a per-deck basis.  I'm presuming, of course that the first-listed values for 1 and 2 decks are your early bird offers.

The key here is you need the price to cover the cost of the deck itself and both the manpower and supplies needed to turn a number of decks into a package ready to travel - and naturally, you want a profit margin to fit in there as well.  Calculate your costs - how much does it cost to send a pack of cards via First Class Mail within the US?  A single pack of cards in the tuck is typically in the ballpark of 3.7 inches by 2.7 inches by 0.7 inches.  The pack itself weighs 3.3 ounces, but factoring in packing material weight means you should calculate it at a minimum of 5 or 6 ounces per pack in a given package, depending on the materials you plan to use.  Go through some of the deck orders you've received, think of the condition in which the decks arrived and what was used to pack them.  Try packing some of your own decks using similar methods to the best-packed, least-damaged playing cards you received, see what the package weighs, then work on calculating costs for whatever materials you used.  If you have an incoming order or two, weigh them before you open them!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: PurpleIce on October 08, 2014, 04:54:45 AM
Quote from: Rob Wright on October 08, 2014, 01:31:29 AM
I would say that is real fare pricing. Not that I want to see higher prices, but I would say there is a little room on the higher tiers for more money.

fare?fair? I would say the pricing is reasonable. I'm not going to say anymore because i would buy your decks at these prices, and don't want to encourage you to increase any further.  :P

But as Don said, do factor in all your costs, especially packaging. It never hurts to protect the decks a little more, especially for international customers with packages that go through a lot more throwing around.

I personally have a mental list of people who does good packaging and shitty ones, no matter how much they claim it works for the rest. I mean seriously, one look at the package without opening and i can tell how good or bad my cards are going to turn out. Lets just say, the good packers are definitely one i would tend to support more and just skip some of the real shitty ones.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: alvinhy on October 08, 2014, 06:20:02 AM
Thanks guys!
I have looked into the cost of shipping and price of the deck (made a pretty excel file).
Since the deck is printed with LPCC it will be shipped from the UK.

I had to include the prices of shipping internationally with royal mail. All the costs cover all that but it means i won't have much profit margin.

I'm still looking to see if there are any fulfilment centers that have a cheaper option in the USA.
Currently I am in talks with JPplaying cards to fulfil the UK shipments :) So an amateur packager won't mess up the decks.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Rose on October 08, 2014, 08:27:18 AM
Quote from: Don Boyer on October 03, 2014, 04:24:45 PM
If only there weren't so many dragon decks all coming out at once - it's going to be tough getting attention and market share to all of them.
I was just thinking this. Tis the season for dragons.
Oh, I just read further down...four beasts, cool!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: alvinhy on October 08, 2014, 11:18:59 AM
Hey guys, I just drafted out a kickstarter campaign.
If any of you have some spare time please take a look and leave some feedback!  :D

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sishoudecks/578625602?token=062cf219
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: PurpleIce on October 08, 2014, 12:17:45 PM
Quote from: alvinhy on October 08, 2014, 11:18:59 AM
Hey guys, I just drafted out a kickstarter campaign.
If any of you have some spare time please take a look and leave some feedback!  :D

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sishoudecks/578625602?token=062cf219

Just some points i noticed. 1) There are miniature dragons on the card back and the jokers. While it may suit the whole chinese theme and all, but the four beasts should be considered equal in all regards. Should the miniature "dragon" be changed to something else instead?
2) Likewise for the Aces. Can't really see it clearly, but the AoS and AoH have their beasts clearly represented but i don't seem to see the tiger and tortoise in AoC and AoD 3) The pips and indices for the teal cards are black, but the red cards are just..red. Perhaps could use black or a darker shade of red? Maybe Carmine, Dark Red or Maroon?
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: alvinhy on October 08, 2014, 07:41:09 PM
Quote from: PurpleIce on October 08, 2014, 12:17:45 PM
Quote from: alvinhy on October 08, 2014, 11:18:59 AM
Hey guys, I just drafted out a kickstarter campaign.
If any of you have some spare time please take a look and leave some feedback!  :D

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sishoudecks/578625602?token=062cf219

Just some points i noticed. 1) There are miniature dragons on the card back and the jokers. While it may suit the whole chinese theme and all, but the four beasts should be considered equal in all regards. Should the miniature "dragon" be changed to something else instead?
2) Likewise for the Aces. Can't really see it clearly, but the AoS and AoH have their beasts clearly represented but i don't seem to see the tiger and tortoise in AoC and AoD 3) The pips and indices for the teal cards are black, but the red cards are just..red. Perhaps could use black or a darker shade of red? Maybe Carmine, Dark Red or Maroon?

Hey PurpleIce,

Thanks for the feedback, the mini dragon actually has a meaning for it. And I was going to reveal the "secret" in the video where I explain the history of the deck.

Upon researching, I found out that the four beasts are protectors of each direction on the compass and there is actually a fifth beast called the yellow dragon of the centre that represents the fifth element and centre of the compass. But thats just history and I think you are right about too many dragon decks and to balance the deck a bit by having the beasts equal.

As for the AoC and AoD there is the beast on it but not as prominent. It can be fun "finding the beasts". I also like the idea of having a darker shade of red on the red pips, but not black.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Coming Soon]
Post by: Rose on October 09, 2014, 01:16:14 PM
Quote from: alvinhy on October 08, 2014, 11:18:59 AM
Hey guys, I just drafted out a kickstarter campaign.
If any of you have some spare time please take a look and leave some feedback!  :D

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sishoudecks/578625602?token=062cf219
Looks awesome! Well Done, beautiful deck!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Kickstarter Launch: 12th October 2014 6pm GMT]
Post by: alvinhy on October 09, 2014, 08:54:04 PM
Thanks rose!
Been finalising everything and i am happy to announce to launch the campaign on sunday :D
Hopefully this time it will meet its goal *fingers crossed*

If you want instant email when the project is launched you can sign up for early invite at Prefundia:
http://prefundia.com/projects/view/sishou-four-beasts-playing-cards/2777/

Just so you don't miss the early birds ;)
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Kickstarter Launch: 12th October 2014 6pm GMT]
Post by: Nurul on October 12, 2014, 02:01:56 PM
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sishoudecks/sishou-four-beasts-playing-cards-by-alvin-cheung NOW live!!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Kickstarter LIVE!]
Post by: alvinhy on October 13, 2014, 07:25:36 AM
Woke up this morning with over 50% funded  :D :D :D

Any suggestions on how to push it further? Maybe I should add more add ons like T-shirts posters? :-[ :-[ ???
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [Kickstarter LIVE!]
Post by: Rose on October 13, 2014, 07:33:09 AM
Looks great! Congratulations on your project launch!   :D
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: alvinhy on October 14, 2014, 05:47:59 PM
Thanks Rose, we are very close to getting funded >:( >:(

Still deciding if I should add more add-ons to push the pledges up a bit.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Don Boyer on October 15, 2014, 12:37:43 AM
Quote from: alvinhy on October 14, 2014, 05:47:59 PM
Thanks Rose, we are very close to getting funded >:( >:(

Still deciding if I should add more add-ons to push the pledges up a bit.

Always have at least two goals not yet hit, one that's nearly there and another that's a bit further out.  Keep your backers interested and show them what's up your sleeve a piece at a time, they're more likely to keep closer tabs in case something that interests them a lot is being offered as a stretch goal.  That way, they'll do what they can - spend more, recruit friends, etc. - to help achieve that goal if possible.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: alvinhy on October 15, 2014, 02:37:11 PM
Hey Don,

Thanks for the heads up, I'll probably have a few stretch goals to keep the people "engaged".
Hopefully I don't run out of them though.

Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Fess on October 22, 2014, 07:31:50 AM
Running through updates I had no time to read yet, I saw this posted on the Four Beasts Playing Cards KS (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sishoudecks/sishou-four-beasts-playing-cards-by-alvin-cheung) a couple days ago. The Red deck looks very nice in my opinion, hopeful it makes the stretch goal. Great teaser image. :)

Quote
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/002/772/166/27c663aaec435022899b74996459bdea_large.jpg?1413828318)
Teal and Red Deck (£10,000 stretch goal)
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: alvinhy on October 22, 2014, 10:54:45 AM
Hey Fes! I would love to see the red deck become a reality too!  :-[
Been advertising like crazy hopefully to push it to the next stretch goal
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: alvinhy on October 29, 2014, 07:25:30 AM
Quick update:
1. £500 left to unlock the red deck! Please help!
2. The decks will be sent by airmail by Hong Kong fulfilment centre.  :D :D
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: alvinhy on November 06, 2014, 06:57:42 AM
Final week!
Everything is set and good to go. Just need to wait for the campaign to end. :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

Thanks for the great support and for those who pledged as well! It would not happen without you guys!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: Fess on November 09, 2014, 10:57:30 AM
Friendly reminder, a little over two days left on this campaign. Both colors are unlocked. :D
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: HolyJJ on November 10, 2014, 05:31:55 AM
Just got myself in for half a brick :D

I'm looking forward to seeing how these turn out. Should be really cool.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS]
Post by: runIt on November 10, 2014, 10:09:37 AM
If anyone is interested in an EB brick, PM me. Looking for an EB half brick.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts [KS] Last days!
Post by: alvinhy on November 10, 2014, 06:44:56 PM
Final 24 hours! Never been this excited for a long long time!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: alvinhy on November 11, 2014, 06:34:04 PM
A long 30 days finally has ended!
Thank you all of those who have pledged!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: alvinhy on November 27, 2014, 06:51:36 AM
Surveys have been sent. Still waiting on those 160+ people to answer the survey.


 :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ My first ever successful campaign!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: alvinhy on January 12, 2015, 08:16:31 AM
Physical proofs!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: Don Boyer on January 12, 2015, 08:32:57 AM
Will you be selling any remaining decks yourself, and if so, at what price?
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: alvinhy on January 12, 2015, 08:49:40 AM
Hello Don,

I am not sure at the moment, but pre-orders are still open for a few days to get the final numbers.
I will have to see how many left overs I have.

I'll probably sign them as well.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: Magasaki on January 12, 2015, 09:07:18 AM
Hiya,

I missed the campaign on these so have just put in for 2 of each deck on backerkit. I entered my details and it says it has received the order but I have no email confirmation and cannot seem to view my order details anywhere. Just wondering if there was a way of me checking that the order was in? It is ordered under the name Tom Majski.

Cheers!

EDIT: don't worry - email come through eventually!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: alvinhy on January 12, 2015, 10:21:42 AM
Quote from: Magasaki on January 12, 2015, 09:07:18 AM
Hiya,

I missed the campaign on these so have just put in for 2 of each deck on backerkit. I entered my details and it says it has received the order but I have no email confirmation and cannot seem to view my order details anywhere. Just wondering if there was a way of me checking that the order was in? It is ordered under the name Tom Majski.

Cheers!

EDIT: don't worry - email come through eventually!

Hey Tom, just to be sure, I just checked and I can confirm an order for 4 decks 2 of each.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: Magasaki on January 12, 2015, 10:30:13 AM
Sweet! Thanks!
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: HankMan on March 16, 2015, 02:26:10 AM
I just got my sishou today  :D

Awesome looking deck... But I just realised I got 4 of the red instead of 2 of each colours  :o

Anyway can anyone tell me what finish do these cards have?

That feel very similar to the heretic deck.. But I still have no idea what finish it has.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: Magasaki on March 16, 2015, 07:08:33 AM
Hi Guys, I have put up a page for SiShou on magasaki.com so if you're on the fence about getting a deck please come over have a look at the great artwork by Alvin. I've added a ratings system to the site so you can vote for which decks you like too, it should appear on the page next to the deck name.

Thanks


http://www.magasaki.com/#!four-beasts/c15ww
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: EvanEssence on March 16, 2015, 06:25:52 PM
i'm not on the fence, i want a deck...can't find any though
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: HankMan on March 16, 2015, 07:57:30 PM
Quote from: EvanEssence on March 16, 2015, 06:25:52 PM
i'm not on the fence, i want a deck...can't find any though

I'm sure it will be out to public soon, as far as I know he already sent the cards for the kickstarter and backerkit.

Or maybe you can find it on EBay within the next 2 weeks
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: alvinhy on March 16, 2015, 07:58:51 PM
Thats correct, i am still waiting for the decks to arrive.

I STILL HAVENT SEEN THEM YET!!! :( :( :( :(
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: HankMan on March 16, 2015, 09:38:52 PM
Quote from: alvinhy on March 16, 2015, 07:58:51 PM
Thats correct, i am still waiting for the decks to arrive.

I STILL HAVENT SEEN THEM YET!!! :( :( :( :(

Oh really? How the hell I got the 4 red deck then??? :o
It came in yesterday, posted from Hong Kong...
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: Don Boyer on March 17, 2015, 12:11:33 AM
Quote from: 52JokesAndCounting on March 16, 2015, 09:38:52 PM
Quote from: alvinhy on March 16, 2015, 07:58:51 PM
Thats correct, i am still waiting for the decks to arrive.

I STILL HAVENT SEEN THEM YET!!! :( :( :( :(

Oh really? How the hell I got the 4 red deck then??? :o
It came in yesterday, posted from Hong Kong...

Because he used Legends Fulfillment in addition to using Legends Playing Card Co.  They printed AND distributed his decks for him.  Obviously they're not all arriving at the same time - one could never expect them to - and in addition to the project creator being placed lower on the list of recipients, it would seem that some of the orders are flubbed.

These things happen, no need to have an aneurysm just yet...
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: HankMan on March 17, 2015, 08:09:52 AM
Haha so I just need to wait to get the blue one  :)

Btw Alvin, any chance I can trade with you 2 red for 2 blue?
I don't know why when I ordered 4 deck I got all 4 red..
I must have not filled in backerkit properly...  :(
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: alvinhy on March 17, 2015, 09:24:18 AM
Quote from: 52JokesAndCounting on March 17, 2015, 08:09:52 AM
Haha so I just need to wait to get the blue one  :)

Btw Alvin, any chance I can trade with you 2 red for 2 blue?
I don't know why when I ordered 4 deck I got all 4 red..
I must have not filled in backerkit properly...  :(

Hey, can you PM me your name and address you used on backerkit for me to confirm what happened?
I'll see what I can do when I get my decks.
Title: Re: SiShou - Four Beasts Pre-Order Now!
Post by: HankMan on March 17, 2015, 08:38:07 PM
Quote from: alvinhy on March 17, 2015, 09:24:18 AM

Hey, can you PM me your name and address you used on backerkit for me to confirm what happened?
I'll see what I can do when I get my decks.

Thanks so much for your help Alvin, I already sent you PM with my details.

Btw I notice something very fine on the design and makes it a one way back. But I don't think it's intentional. I only opened 1 packed so I won't know if that is the case for every deck.