Quote from: Cryptocard27 on July 15, 2014, 03:07:47 PM

Hi PurpleIce,

Concerning the sale, the price range is different for every deck according to its quality and rarity. I have already had several messages of members interested to buy so I think of making as a small auction : I give the start price for the first person (for example $60 for the Triton) and if one second is interested, I let make a better offer but If nobody else has "bidded", you simply won the deck if you agree with the start price.

For the exchange I look for antique decks too and for example, If I exchange the Cabinet #707 deck, I would prefer another Russell & Morgan PTG Co deck or a deck of same value.

I hope I have answered your questions and if you have any others, please do not hesitate to ask me.

Hi Crypto,

If you plan on selling in that manner, I am going to request that you do so publicly on the thread. My concern is that a form of shill bidding can occur, where a seller can say to a buyer "Another member is messaging me saying he'll pay a higher price" even if that isn't the case, so that the real buyer must pay more. I am certainly not accusing you of this at all, but this is the best way to avoid it from happening to/from anyone. If there is bidding going on privately either, post the username of who is bidding on what, when they bid and what their "bid" or price range was.

Buyers: To go a step further on this, if you have a price in mind for a certain item, to protect yourself from this type of situation, post your "bid" on the thread directly in the form of a reply. That way, you and anyone else interested, knows that there was a real, tangible bid made from a real person on the forums.

Crypto: Although I know it may be a hassle as you said you've already gotten a few messages with bids, but please post or update your current post with the bids that you have received so far.

Thank you.

Hi Angel_magic,

Thank you for your message. It's a difficult sometimes for me to understand all of the sentences perfectly but I think I understood the main in your post. I haven't thought about that point and I'm going to change the descriptions to include the first prices.

Quote from: Cryptocard27 on July 14, 2014, 11:04:37 AM

I think I understand the distinction but for the different versions of the Tourists deck, you say that the Hochman US9 is scarce only because of the number of prints or also due to its age and because it's the first version please ?

Quantities printed on older decks aren't always available - I'd say the public discovers them infrequently to rarely, in fact.  Scarcity it just that, they are few known to exist.  A few thousand or a few hundred thousand might have been printed, but today, for a variety of reasons, few are left.  There are almost countless scenarios explaining why a vintage or antique deck would be rare - or common.

For the Circus deck, it's rare because the deck was aimed at a children's audience, perhaps even sold at actual circuses.  Just as few of their comic books, board games and toys survive, so, too, do few of their decks of playing cards.

For something like the War Series, they didn't get printed until the year the war ended, so someone at USPC made an executive decision and ceased production on the decks, giving them an unusually short print run.  The decks were being promoted to be played with, so I'm thinking some decent amount of that production run was lost to wear and tear.  Thus, another rare deck (four decks, actually, not counting color variants).

Certain souvenir decks aimed at adults (like the Brown Derby deck) would have two factors determining surviving quantity - they'd be scarce because there were few places where they could have been purchased in the first place, thus probably had limited distribution, but the decks that were distributed would have had a better chance of survival because souvenirs of that type are often left unused, either displayed on a shelf or dropped into a drawer and buried in the back of it.

Then there's the Bicycle Rider Back - undoubtedly the most common Bicycle back printed, probably in continuous production since it was first introduced in 1893.  Sure, many got used up, but so many more were made that they're all over the place.  Plenty of old decks still exist.

You can, see, though, there are factors that come into play besides the size of the print run, a number that's often lost to antiquity.

Thank you so much for this excellent summary Don. It's a real pleasure to read you, sincerely!

Quote from: Cryptocard27 on July 13, 2014, 09:02:15 PM

Quote from: 52plusjoker on July 13, 2014, 07:01:45 PM

Quote from: Cryptocard27 on July 13, 2014, 03:33:38 PM

Quote from: 52plusjoker on July 13, 2014, 12:12:00 PM

These Circus decks are very scarce in mint or near mint condition - and will sell for c$1000.

Can you give me an equivalent word to scarce please Tom ? Scarce is just rare or rather extremely rare ?

Very hard to find; in short supply; rare

Thank you very much Tom!
Just for another example, can we say that the Tourists #155 is a scarce deck ?

Hochman US9 is scarce - US9a, b, c not quite as scarce

I think I understand the distinction but for the different versions of the Tourists deck, you say that the Hochman US9 is scarce only because of the number of prints or also due to its age and because it's the first version please ?

These Circus decks are very scarce in mint or near mint condition - and will sell for c$1000.

Can you give me an equivalent word to scarce please Tom ? Scarce is just rare or rather extremely rare ?

Hart's Squeezers #352 (Hochman NY50)
52+J + OB3, Very Good
Very Nice Back !

Sale : $105 OBO
Exchange : antique decks between 1890-1915

Full House Poker Cards #555 (Hochman NU13) c1896
52 + 11 and 12 spot pips + OB1, Excellent +

Sale : $75 OBO
Exchange : Antique decks or newest in Excellent condition.

~~ OTHER DECKS BELOW AFTER THE NEXT REPLIES ~~

Elf #93 (Hochman NY63) c1890
52, no Joker + OB2, Excellent ++
Nice Monkey Back

Sale : $30
Exchange : any antique decks in good condition

Mascotte #69 (Hochman NY56) c1890
52+J + Wrapper (with tear) + OB1, Open Mint
Slight traces on the edges

Sale : $115 OBO
Exchange : Samuel Hart, Consolidated decks, other antique decks between 1890-1915

I create this post because I have in my collection several decks which I would like to sell or exchange and I wanted to present them to you before putting them on eBay.

There is a pix for every deck and a description. If you are interested, do not hesitate to contact me. I can send you additional photos.

Cabinet #707 (Hochman US12) c1888 [Gold Edges]
32+J + OB1 (Cloth Box), Excellent ++
Slight traces on some cards. Beautif Binoculars Back.

Sale : $230 OBO
Exchange : Other Russell & Morgan PTG or antique Euchre/32 card deck preferred.

Climax #14 (Hochman AD37) c1905 [Gold Edges]
52+J + OB1, Excellent + 
Very nice Brown Baby Back

Sale : $125 OBO
Exchange : Andrew Dougherty deck, antique deck between 1900-1915 in excellent condition.

Hello everyone !

Here are the scan of two other favourite decks of my collection.

The first deck is a 4-11-44 gold edges (Hochman L17) with a nice grey and white 4-11-44 back and a beautiful engraved Ace of Spades but without joker and box. On the back, we can see crows and if you look carefully their posture, you can distinguish the number 4-11-44 : Four with the first crow, Eleven with the latter two and Forty Four with the last two.
We can also see a crescent moon on the back. This symbol was also used in other decks, for example the Joker of the Crescent #44 (Hochman NU11) and the Joker of the Tip-Top #350 (Hochman PU1).

The second deck is an Extra 4-11-44 (Hochman L22a) with gold edges too. The back has an attractive brown color and represents a black man sitting on a rocking chair, under a crescent moon again and beside a spider web. There is a banner of playing cards in the middle of the card and when starting at the middle to either end, we can see : four of diamonds, six of heart + five of diamonds and four of spades + four of clubs. This correponds to the sequence of numbers Four Eleven Forty Four, in addition to the 4-11-44 logo, also added on this back (and captured in the spider web to maybe remind the "sticky" superstition concerning this fetish number).

The particularity of this copy is the joker and the ace of spades : The Ace saying "Globe Playing Card Co, New York and Chicago" but the joker saying "Card Fabrique Co, Factory Middletown".
I asked the question to an expert to identify better the deck in the Hochman and apparently, "it is not surprising that the deck would be issued with the Card Fabrique Ace and the Globe joker or the Globe Ace and the Card Fabrique Joker because both companies were owned by the same family and made their cards in the same factory. Other than the names the aces and jokers are the same."

About the 4-11-44 game, here is a part of the story for those who don't know :

"Four Eleven Forty Four or 4-11-44 is a phrase that has appeared repeatedly in popular music and as a reference to numbers allegedly chosen commonly by poor African Americans while gambling.

The roots of the phrase can be traced to the illegal lottery known as "policy" in 19th-century America. Numbers were drawn on a wheel of fortune, ranging from 1 to 78. A three-number entry was known as a "gig" and a bet on 4, 11, 44 was popular by the time of the Civil War.

The New York Clipper,a sporting and theatrical weekly, ran a serial story by John Cooper Vail in April and May of 1862 titled "'4-11-44!' or The Lottery of Life in the Great City," indicating that the number was already a gambling cliche. The Secrets of the Great City, an 1869 book by Edward Winslow Martin, references 4-11-44 and attributes the section on policy to "the New York correspondent of a provincial journal", but does not name the writer. Nor does he date the article, except to say it was published "recently".

The combination became known as the "washerwoman's gig" after it featured on the cover of Aunt Sally's Policy Players' Dream Book, published by H.J. Wehman of New York sometime in the 1880s. The stereotypical player of the washerwoman's gig was a poor black male."

Agree - very nice Triplicate - definitely wrong box. Below is a Trip box and a Trip wrapper. Some came in box and some [earlier] in a wrapper.

Very nice Tom!! Have you pictures of your Trip inside the wrapper and the box please ?
Could you tell me that no Triplicate deck was issued in a box + wrapper. Either one or the other necessarily ?

Quote from: Cryptocard27 on June 05, 2014, 11:59:49 AM

Quote from: athomas16 on February 22, 2014, 03:41:47 PM

This is probably half of my (entire!) collection.  I realize you can't see much in these photos, but I plan to feature some of my better decks with individual posts in the future.  If you see any decks you want more info on, let me know.

Hi athomas16,

Would it be possible to have a scan of the deck inside the red Russell & Morgan box please?

Sorry for the delayed response.  I can provide as many pics of that deck as you would like, but I fear you will be disappointed.  That is the box that my Triplicate deck came in.  Or  I should say that is the box my Triplicate deck was in when I got it.  It almost certainly wasn't originally produced that way.

Wooow athomas!!! Your deck is fabulous.. This version with the horse on the back and the little joker is extremely desired and your copy seems in perfect condition. Beautiful surprise!! The deck is not in its original box but sincerely, I think that nobody here expected to see a Triplicate deck under this Russell & Morgan box. Thank you athomas and thanks for the pictures 

Quote from: Cryptocard27 on June 11, 2014, 03:34:27 PM

Quote from: 52plusjoker on June 11, 2014, 03:22:42 PM

This deck, c1890, was the first Treasury #89. It had this special joker with, I believe, images of real US coins. Can anyone provide more info on the coins?

Thank you very much Tom !!
The deck is fantastic and I really love the back.. Do you have the original box with the deck ?

Front and back of box.

Beautiful box!! Thank you again for the sharing Tom..

I am curious to know if the Treasury #89 US18-1 was published with a different back (especially the well known with the angels in corners) from the one that shows Tom, because of the same symbols on the Back and the Joker : the eagle and the shield. Would anybody have information ?