Looks really nice... Did anyone mention USPCC yet???

His write up says they are made by USPCC
Thanks!

Ill try to adress all these concerns in one post.
1. you dont like the decks thats fine. But a lot of people consider them the best.
2. The cost with 5100$ was the cost for the quantum grain finish decks, I I messed up when I posted that. I have the quote and the cards will  be around 1.50$
3. You say I am only in it for the money because I went for a cheaper deck ( which I believe to be of great quality ) which is slightly cheaper than 20$+ kems.... hmmm.... Yeah Maybe I jumped the gun a little bit I thought the kems would be around 5$ based on the few manufactureres Ive dealt with, oops.
4. But I am cheap because I could have gone for plastic, well the cards and finish I chose behave like plastic are as durable as plastic and yet are paper and flourish like a god, how cool is that.
5. I was also misinformed about the kem and bicycle prestige thing. I was led to beleive that bicycle bought kem and so bicycle prestige decks were just kems with a bicycle back.
6. Also If I was only in it for the money, why the hell would I spend so much time on this deck? Why spend so much time preforming minute tweaks?
Unfortuanantly though when I started this project It looked like it would succeed ( first day got 600 bucks not bad ) but when these arguments started popping up The project flatlined. Im going to have a lot of work ahead of me to try and see it succeed now.

1) Your are delusional if you think anyone thinks they are the best. Please provide names
2) Funny how you constantly make mistakes. Shows your incompetency.
3) Who have you dealt with? You have one other poor quality deck previously funded.
4) How do you know since you do not have any samples yet?
5) More incompetency
6) The arguments have nothing to do with why your not getting funding.

Again here we go about how much time you have spent. Even if they cost another $.50, (which I don't believe because you can not seem to tell the truth), that would be only $2500 less profit and you still have not answered the question as to why you are charging the same amount of money as a USPCC deck when you are paying way less.

I just wanted to let everyone know, we will be matching the $.15 donation for every deck purchased from us as well!!!
Thanks!

Quote from: bmpokerworld on April 02, 2012, 02:52:14 PM

Quote from: NathanCanadas on April 02, 2012, 02:46:09 PM

Quote from: bmpokerworld on April 02, 2012, 01:33:13 PM

Too many times, too many people ignore the facts and just plain lie on this forum to suit their own needs. Perfect example yesterday Nathancards says" he is printing 5000 at $1.50 per deck is his cost. Where does he come up with that number?
Thanks!

Hey that isn't exactly what I said. I know for a fact that Rajas prints the decks for less than 1$ a deck. And Reagan said that in order to reproduce a finish that makes the deck similar to a plastic deck, it costs him an extra almost .5$ a deck.
So I just rounded it. I didn't back these so I don't know exactly how much they cost. I was just throwing it out there. No need to stone me for a simple mistake. I agree with the points you are making. All I am saying is that we can't expect the best deck on earth printed for 1$ a deck.

But when you just throw out numbers arbitrarily, people assume it's fact. If you don't know, then you should not really be quoting numbers. Exactly my point. So what do you really think you are going to get for a $1.00 a deck?

Personally, I wish it would be the best deck ever made. That would be perfect. The highest quality deck for the cheapest price, could you ask for anymore?
Thanks!

The numbers Reagan gave weren't entirely true, but little did I know that. Also, since the demand is MUCH lower than the supply, I obviously know that we won't nearly get the decks as low as the price Reagan payed, but it's the same for most decks! I'm just kinda being the devil's advocate here so I will stop. I don't have much more points to argue anyways, and anyways if we really want to continue this debate, I think we should do so on the Ultra Ape Deck Thread.
Thx,
Nathan
PS: I am not trying to offend you BMPokerWorld. I think your company is really amazing, and when I am looking for decks to add to my collection I always turn to your company. All I am trying to do is defend Reagan. His designs are improving, and I don't think we should sink him. I do think giving him criticism is great to help him improve though.
PPS: How do you store all your decks? Do you have a storage place, a warehouse... ?

We just released a 60 deck acrylic display.
Thanks!

@ Bmpokerworld : I really wanted to stay out of this but we will be getting a prototype deck soon, this should answer any questions on quality.

Also about the chinese manufacturer, I really didnt know much about cards back then and I am still learning.

Clearly you don't. You could get a prototype and probably 50 people will love them and 50 people won't, that is the way it goes. I never said I thought Brahma made horrible cards. I just feel USPCC is better. That is my opinion and everyone has one.

None of this changes anything, you have no clue on what you are doing and you only got involved because you thought you could make money. You have no idea how these cards even feel or handle, so how could you say they are of high quality? You can't and that only reinforces my point.

You went from, what I felt was a very nice back design especially for a poker deck, to this childish an cartoon design. Again my Opinion.
Thanks!

Quote from: bmpokerworld on April 01, 2012, 10:06:43 AM

As I stated in a previous post, I never said that they were not good, only that USPCC is better. That is a fact. Can they and do they make a good product?  Yes, but ReaganM is trying to convince everyone that he is using them because of the quality, which is not the case. He has already posted about using them because he got a "better deal" period. That is what he is concerned with and not quality. Not to mention on the Kickstarter Steampunk ad he states " At 10,000$ we will print using USPCC insuring high quality decks!" So clearly even HE believes USPCC is better. Brahma advertises they can do a custom deck for under a dollar, so I doubt that there is going to be a high quality deck that ReaganM is having them produce for him. I am sure he is going with a cheaper version and why, because he got a"better deal". Those are his words and not mine.

So why isn't he charging less for the deck since he is paying less? Because he clearly is in it for the money as I have previously posted. Just like his watered down back design, shows the time he is putting into this deck. I honestly thought the original back design, when it was going to be a poker deck, was quite good. Now I think the back design is childish and leaves a lot to be desired.

For the record, about 2 years ago, when USPCC was moving and going through a lot of transitional changes, I spoke to one of the"big guys" and they told me in no uncertain terms, they have looked at lots of alternatives to have someone else make their decks but could not find anyone who had the same quality. If they could have, they would have changed. I do not know of one product that Bramha makes better than USPCC. Could they be there some day? Yes. Do they make products that have a place in this industry? Yes. Do they make products that have certain attributes that card handlers are looking for? Yes. Do they make decks that will perform certain tricks that a magician would want? Of course, but overall they are no where near USPCC in quality and performance.

The Archduke Eaglebacks are comparable in handling to the Moth/Myth and the Watcher decks.  People rave about those decks because they handle like nothing seen before, certainly not out of USPC.  I think you'd be hard pressed to say that USPC's output is consistently better than any of those three decks listed above.  Different would be a better term, but not better.

Reagan's Kickstarter project page was created when he thought he'd be stuck using some cheapo Chinese manufacturer noted for terrible-quality cards.  It wasn't until near the end of his project's fundraiser that he became aware of Archduke - Rajas had joined the board here, his cards were already known and he announced he was offering reasonably-priced printing at a high level of quality.  I introduced Reagan to Archduke, and he got in touch with Rajas, and the rest is history.  Rajas had to create Brahma as a subsidiary company due to Indian regulations - Archduke was already registered strictly as a domestic-trade business, so he needed a new company that could be registered for international business.  Reagan's deck will be the first under the Brahma imprint, but far from the first off of the presses that Rajas Paranjpe operates out of Mumbai.

USPC didn't know about Brahma or Archduke back in '09 because Brahma didn't yet exist and Archduke wasn't selling internationally - it was other importers that bought his cards in bulk and sent them to other parts of the world.  I don't even think they would have created a blip on USPC's radar at the time.

You state flat out that USPC's decks are superior in quality and performance - but have you ever handled a deck made by Archduke?  It makes you appear like one of those religious zealots who protest a fictional movie before even knowing what the movie is actually about, simply because someone higher up in their church said it was somehow against their church's doctrine - despite the movie being entirely fictional and in no way claiming to be based on real events, such as "The DaVinci Code".  Try out a deck of Eaglebacks, then come back and give a truly self-informed opinion, like I've been doing from the start.

BTW: don't take any of this personally.  I happen to think you're a great guy and I've shopped in your store many, many times.  We're all very appreciative of your business, and I'm personally a big fan of the Bicycle Premier deck you produced - I consider it one of the best uses of metallic ink in a deck design that I've seen to date.

No I have actually handled them and I am not impressed. In fact if they were so good, I would have people clamoring for me to stock them, which has not happened. I do not make wild allegations about products without first hand knowledge. The real point was, he is in my opinion, making an inferior deck and criticizing someone's deck in the process.

Too many times, too many people ignore the facts and just plain lie on this forum to suit their own needs. Perfect example yesterday Nathancards says" he is printing 5000 at $1.50 per deck is his cost. Where does he come up with that number? Under ReaganM' Stage 2 post, he clearly states the decks are costing him $5100 for all the decks. So last time I went to school, $5100 for 5000 decks is about a $1.00 per deck and nowhere near $1.50 per deck. So lets do the math shall we?

Take the median price per deck which is $8.00, $8.00 x 5000= $40,000
Cost for decks                                                                          - $5100
Postage (including label) and bubble wrap                               -$6562.50
Kick starter fees & amazon fees  15%  ($40,000 x 15%)          -$6,000
                                                                             Total Profit    $22,337.50

Will he see all that profit right away? Probably not. But make no mistake, he is not using Brahma for any other reason other than they are the cheapest. So I am not sure why you keep defending that there is some other reason. He knows nothing about playing cards. When he initially posted, he said he could get Kem made for $5.00 per deck. When he was told he was incorrect, did he say, oh I just thought that is what they would be? No he said " I been down this road before and I know how much they cost". Well clearly he hasn't. He has no idea what quality is, just look at this post:

"Unfortunantly, these will not be KEM like bycicle prestige"

He doesn't even have a clue that Kem and Bicycle prestige are 2 completely different animals. But yet you keep defending the reason he is using Brahma despite the fact that clearly he can not tell the difference between one deck of cards to another and despite that he already stated why he bought the decks; "Because he got a better deal" period. Those are his words not mine.

He clearly is only worried about the money and that is it. If he wasn't he would sell them for less. Keep defending him despite that there is no proof to your point of view and clearly substantial proof for my point of view. What is that proof? His own posts.
Thanks!

I agree with you on some points, BMPokerWorld, but there is one thing you got wrong: you said he is in for quick money. With Rajas and the finish these cards will have, 5,000 decks will be printed for almost 1.5$ each. That makes already 7,500$. In addition to that, Kickstarter and Amazon take another 10%. 10% of 8,500$ is 850$. 7,500+850 is 8,350, meaning he makes a bit more than 150$. Individually, the cards cost a lot more than how much Reagan payed to have each one printed, but knowing that he won't be able to sell all 5,000 of them, it is his only way of reaching his goal.

If you actual read his Kickstarter ad, it appears domestic shipping is included. If it is, that would mean he is actually losing money on the Kickstarter proposition and taking money out of his pocket. I don't believe that for one second. So he must be printing way less than 5000 decks.
Thanks!

Quote from: Aaron on April 01, 2012, 02:16:23 AM

On KS it says the back is 25%  done. WHY START A KICK STARTER?!?!? Maybe in the end it will be a decent back but at this stage it is terrible.

Uh, hello?  Lance Miller himself wasn't fully finished with the design phase of the Actuators when they went up for KS.  It's part of why it took so long for them to see the light of day, but it's not like Reagan is unique in this.

Terrible is a relative term.  I personally like the design concepts he's working on.  The only reason I haven't backed yet is that I really can't afford to do so.  As much as I like them, I'd prefer keeping my car insured and keeping my cellphone working...

But that is the problem with Kickstarter. You should ask people for money AFTER your design is done and not before. Making people wait for 9 or 10 months after they paid for a product is ridiculous and one of the main reasons we do not participate. In addition, it does not make good financial sense for us. If we supported all the decks that are currently available through Kickstater or pre-order, we would be out of pocket right now somewhere between $15,000- $30,000. That is ridiculous. To be honest, I believe you should have some skin in the game and have some of your own money invested in the deck as well.

Unfortunately look what Kickstarter has become, you go from incredible decks designed by Lance Miler, to this deck and the ultraape deck, which feature thrown together designs and/or watered down quality. People just looking to make a quick buck.
Thanks!

Quote from: jmrock on March 31, 2012, 01:26:49 PM

@bmpokerworld... hear hear!!!  Couldn't have said it better myself...

@Reagan... You shouldn't be talking about anyone else's decks after the steampunk and gorilla messes that you continue to post about so proudly (and just so you know, there are a number of people that agree with me, but want to remain anonymous)...  And those of you who need a list of things wrong with the decks, just stop it already... Just look at both of them... if you collect cards, then you should be insulted that these are being posted on this forum altogether...

@Nathan... At risk of alienating you or anyone else, you do come across as though you are very knowledgable about many topics, but I believe that you are not... I am still unsure of your age, but have asked a number of times, because I believe that a child that not allowed to buy decks because his mommy or daddy says so would really be hard pressed to add wisdom or pertinent information to any thread...

As far as the topic... How very sad... "I'm the creator and CEO of PDC (Purple Diamond Cards) who makes custom cards for companies and for magicians/card artists like you."  You've made no custom cards for magicians or card artists ever... You're not CEO of anything... In fact I'd say you don't have a corporation, llc, or anything for that matter... as far as your ecstasy decks, I'd say it looks as though you've probably taken to much already and should probably stop..

As far as Kickstarter goes, it appears to have jumped the shark, but there are occasionally a few diamonds amongst the rest of the garbage  for every ape deck there is a Vortex, for every steampunk deck there is a Tendril, and for every purple x deck there is a Spectrum...

Well if my steampunk deck was garbage it wouldnt have 200+ backers. Im really geting tired of this, but you are right that someone else agrees with you, thatd be bmpokerworld, shake hands, now you dont have to pretend to yourself that there is some magical group of people that agree with you but say nothing, cuz at least now theres one.
Sorry im acting like a child now, but I do beleive in those cards, im just really getting tired of this.

For the record, I have never commented on the Steampunk deck you have on Kickstarter. I think in the end, it will be the same problem with quality that I think you will have with the Ultra Ape deck. Everyone has there own opinion about custom decks. Personally I like the court cards of the steampunk deck and would have loved to see what the rest of the deck would look like. Unfortunately you did not show any of the other cards, only the court cards.

The sad part is they are not USPCC. There is a reason that all the "Big Guys" use them. It is because they produce the best product on the market today, period. But you seem unmoved by the wealth of information in the marketplace today that clearly shows their products are superior. You seem to be only concerned about how much money you put in your pocket.

As far as the Ultra Ape deck, I liked the original version very much especially since it was advertised as Kem stock. But the the new back design, in my opinion, leaves a lot to be desired.
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Unfortunately since everyone keeps supporting Kickstarter, these things will continue to happen and the problems will keep getting worse and worse.
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No and I am not sure why you would want to do that because you would only be able to see one anyway, if it was hanging on the way.
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I just wanted to let everyone know, we now have the displays in stock.

http://www.bmpokerworld.com/playing_card_displays.php

Thanks!

No. This is a current item. The decks are specially made for the classic card game of Canasta.
Thanks!