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Messages - JohnEdelson

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1
Introduce Yourself / What Counts as the First Joker?
« on: September 16, 2024, 11:19:12 AM »
As a historically-minded joker collector, I've been contemplating and researching what could be considered the first joker. I find it complicated. 

I hope to discuss the topic with others who are more learned than I am at the 52Plus Conference in Niagara Falls in three weeks and I wrote an article to prepare. 
https://www.amusedbyjokersami.com/2024/09/investigating-great-invention-of-1800s.html

I started by thinking that to count as the first modern joker, the card should be called a "joker", be a multipurpose extra card, and have a jester on it so that it belongs at court with the kings and queens.

But from there, I found myself in a maze of historical sources and definitions. While I started by relying 100% on info from The Hochman Encyclopedia of American Playing Cards, I learned that it too has some errors. 

(I tried to post this in the section on Card Collecting but the forum did not present me with a 'New Topic' menu choice there.)

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This is incredible information. Thanks.
It'll take me awhile to think about this and to follow up with the "Virtual Card Catalog" which I did not know anything about.

Right now, I'm just trying to understand the card and what it means.
Do you know exactly what was being patented? Was it the ace of spades? I would have thought the aces were just trademarked.
Also, is there any more info that can be retrieved about the patent?

Copyright Assignor: U.S. Playing Card Company - (New Jersey)

Full house poker playing cards, no. 555
Spanish cards, no. 95.
Trophy whist playing cards
New poker deck, National Meth (rev) dup, whist
Assigned to | U.S. Playing Card Company - (Ohil).
Original proprietor | U.S. Playing Card Company.
Original entry | 1895: No, 65923 _ 5927, inv.
Assignment recorded | Assignment book v 78 p. 9,

3
I have an old deck known in Hochman, NU13. P113. It's a National Playing Card Company deck with three Palmer Cox Brownies on the joker.

I think mine is NU13 since the Ace of Spades says "Full House", not "Boston".   In reading about it in Hochman, there is a mention of there being two versions of this ace of spades. One marked "patent pending", the second with the patent date.

On mine, the 1890 patent date is cited on the box. The ace has 96 as the code. The joker has j84. There's no mention of a patent pending.


My deck:



First question, does anyone know how to find the patent that was granted? I have searched a number of ways on the US Patent database but not found anything relevant. 
https://ppubs.uspto.gov/pubwebapp/static/pages/ppubsbasic.html





I have several different versions of this joker, the others are later, perhaps Hochman 13a since they have the US corner indices.





The Second Question is more obscure. Does anyone have any idea about the intellectual property or royalty arrangement between Palmer Cox and the National Playing Card Company? Would Palmer Cox have allowed his characters to be used free by National on this and the other National Jokers such as NU18a and NU10a?


Has anyone researched this?


I have a similar royalty question on all the early Congress606 decks which used famous artwork, much of contemporary at that point, on the backs of their cards (and on the jokers in the Matching Decks). They had Dundreary on their joker for around two decades. Was all of this royalty free? Did it fall somehow under "Fair Use"? Was there any sort of agreement?


4
A Cellar of Fine Vintages / Re: Playing Card Collection
« on: February 05, 2024, 01:48:11 PM »
I've gotten very interested in the early wide Congress 606 decks that have jokers that match the back of the cards.
They seem to have been published from 1898 to 1906.
If any you have any of them to sell (or trade), I'd love to hear from you.

Here's some info on where I am in collecting them:
https://www.amusedbyjokersami.com/2023/11/my-matching-congress-606-jokers.html

Here's some decks that I have to trade:
https://www.amusedbyjokersami.com/2023/11/vintage-decks-that-id-trade-away.html


5
Hochman Updates / Re: Chapter 24 - Exposition and World's Fair Cards
« on: December 10, 2023, 01:21:35 PM »
In addition to the cool old cards, note the old Bakelite plastic box.

6
Introduce Yourself / My introduction: I'm Amused By Jokers
« on: December 10, 2023, 01:16:16 PM »
Hi, In high school, I was a working magician doing mostly kids parties but also some closeup. One store-bought trick ended with four cards being turned into jokers. I liked the trick but thought the jokers were visually underwhelming so I looked around for better ones. Soon I had half a dozen in a rubber band, then dozens, then a few in the album. In the last few years, I've returned to my collection which is now big (maybe 10,000 different ones) and am now focusing on old American jokers.  I also am collecting Congress decks (and jokers) from the matching era.

My Congress Matching Jokers
Old Decks I'd Trade Away
My Organizational System for Jokers.. My answer of how to organize a ton of jokers

BTW, I graduated from high school in 1976.

7
A Cellar of Fine Vintages / Re: Playing Card Collection
« on: November 19, 2023, 01:00:09 PM »
John, I'd be interested in talking to you about them. I'd want to see more of the decks, specifically the jokers.
Here's some info on the old decks that I have that I was organizing. 

https://www.amusedbyjokersami.com/2023/11/more-old-american-decks.html

8
I have a question about the joker shown by CHESS from his Uncle Sam deck pictured above. It was from the late 1800s by Standard Playing Cards of Chicago.

I have a few versions of this joker.

The image is of a good imp capturing some sort of evil creature in a box and exclaiming:
I have got Him!


I am convinced there must have been a folktale or myth popular back then which this illustrates. Anybody know?

9
Introduce Yourself / Re: I?m a joker collector from Florida
« on: December 17, 2020, 04:30:33 AM »
Thanks. I?m now studying the Playing Card Museum Poster by the US Playing Card Company. Are you familiar with it? I?m trying to:
1. Identify the publisher and year of each pictured card
2.  See how many of these cards I have
3. Find out about the history of this poster and when and who put it together.
4. Get myself a high res copy or even an original.

Can anyone help?
It?s a work in progress:

https://www.amusedbyjokersami.com/2020/12/joker-poster-inventory-of-my-status.html

So far, I?ve mostly finished Row 1 of 8.
Thanks.

10
Playing Card Plethora / Re: So, who's going to the CONVENTION?!?
« on: October 22, 2020, 12:55:54 PM »
I went. It was great.
I particularly liked the open chat sessions where I could get a feeling for the personalities of people and ask some questions.
They were quick to help.

I also discovered that as a joker collector, I got labelled as a "singles collector", my wife was very suspicious when she I heard that I was online under that category...

11
Playing Card Plethora / Re: Patriotic Playing Cards - Kickstarter
« on: October 22, 2020, 12:53:38 PM »
It looks good.

The jokers would fit well in either my:

Americana joker collection
or the section about
American People

I'll look at joining the kickstarter bid...

12
Design & Development / Symbols on Classic Royal Cards - Jacks First
« on: October 18, 2020, 12:04:51 PM »
I have an array of Bicycle and other American royal cards in front of me and I have many questions.  If someone has already written all this up, I'd appreciate the referral. If not, here's some questions.  I'll just ask about the jacks in this post but I have questions about the queens and kings too.

Clubs - The jack of clubs  (should this be capitalized?) is holding a long vertical rod-like thing with a sort of arrow head on one side (the top?) and a point on the other side.  It might be a stylized spear although the point on the back of it doesn't quite make sense. Anyone know anything about it?


There is also a leaf hanging from the hat or crown of the JoC.  Again, anyone know anything?

Hearts. He has a moustache (JoC is cleanshaven) and is holding something in his hand, maybe a leaf? There is the axe behind him.
 
The Jack of Spaces is holding a type of stick has a sort of spiral to it.  It has three sections in the spiral (ie it turns around one and a half times). What is it and what is it called?

Diamonds.  The JoD is holding a rod which looks very similar to the JoC rod but with the point at both ends (not the arrowhead).  It has a curved thing coming off it which could either be the hand protector if it's a sword or, in some versions, suggests a crossbow.  Anyone know anything about it? BTW, JOD also has a moustache.

13
Introduce Yourself / Re: Greetings from Japan
« on: October 14, 2020, 05:25:47 PM »
Welcome to the forum,
I checked out your kickstarter deck. I'm all about the jokers so I like the trickster concept.
It's a little pricey to get them shipped from Japan (it would cost more than the decks).
I noticed on your royal cards, the indices has the suit but not which royal they are.

14
Design & Development / My Own Jokers
« on: October 14, 2020, 05:15:56 PM »
At one point about eight years ago, I designed my own deck as a holiday gift to my colleagues.
We designed a custom back and two original jokers, both built around our characters.
I think we printed up a hundred or two hundred copies.

The cat and mouse characters were from the SpellingCity game, HangMouse https://www.spellingcity.com/hangmouse-kids-hangman-online.html?listId=15827764:
The Pompadoured Penguin and Educational Mouse (Ed Mouse) are associated with Time4Learning:  https://www.edmouse.com

What do you think? More info about them available on my joker website: https://www.amusedbyjokersami.com/2013/01/my-own-jokers-designed.html

15
Introduce Yourself / I?m a joker collector from Florida
« on: August 27, 2020, 07:41:51 AM »
Hello card people,
In high school, back in the 1970s, I worked as a magician. One store-bought trick culminated in transforming all the cards into different jokers with different backs. I thought the jokers were dull so I started looking for more interesting jokers.  This has turned out to be lifelong (so far) hobby.

Btw: I've forgotten the trick, sound familiar to anyone?  I think it was a store-bought self running thing but I don't remember.

So I've now been collecting jokers on and off for a long time.
My collection is online at www.AmusedByJokersAmI.com

Stop by, leave a comment.

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