Collin, I don't think anyone here felt for a moment that you were being deceptive or trying to scam us.  We're actually rather amazed at what you've managed to accomplish in getting your decks made.  You should definitely keep a hand in the game, perhaps with the assistance of an angel investor or a program like the one at HOPC.  And not just for the cards - get your magic out there.  There are shops that will publish your effects if they feel they're worthwhile.

BeDeceived is dead - long live BeDeceived!

Thanks Don!
It wasn't so much here as it was United Cardists that a lot of accusations were being thrown around (very quickly!). I just posted that (1) because it took me like 45 minutes to write and I was not going to write something equally as long custom-tailored to this thread and (2) I think everyone deserves to hear the story and why they are purchasing the playing cards from Kickstarter. Thank you a lot for the support! This is honestly making me want to design another deck under the guise of PeachCrate. I don't think I would want to do it under Bedeceived again. 3 decks is enough there, and there's so much that comes with being part of a company with such a (often times difficult and confusing) history. Starting clean could give me the motivation to do another deck.

I guess we will see!

Collin

Hey guys! Just to clear up any confusion, I am posting what I posted to United Cardists for you guys to read.

Hey guys,

First of all, I hope you are doing well, and I'm glad that Russell invited me to the forums to give my side of the story. I am open to answering any and all questions you guys may have. I'm going to put it all out on the table and be as honest as humanly possible here. I believe in transparency, and I do share things about my business that many people may not. I do it because I believe honesty prevails, especially in situations like these where it seems some peoples' trust in me is on the line.

I have acquired a lot of debt from Bedeceived. As many of you may know, I started Bedeceived when I was only 16. I started it because I had a magic effect that wouldn't get accepted anywhere else. I figured, why not build my own site? So I did. I sold exactly one copy of that first magic effect, and that sale felt amazing. Pretty soon, I began building a reputation through the community I was attempting to build on my site (a forum not unlike this one). I believed that an amazing customer experience and honesty were what would win me business from the bigger guys out there.

In November of 2011, my stepfather took out a loan from his credit union because he believed in me, and I had shown success up to that point. This loan would pay for the Style Deck, up front. I needed money to pay a designer (Jason Wither), and of course money to print the deck itself. This credit union debt wouldn't simply go away of course, and to cope with those initial costs, I prereleased the deck. It was a huge success (not as big of a success as the Mystery Deck, but we acquired the money we had initially spent). The problem was, we had NO IDEA what went into shipping a deck of playing cards. We made a lot of mistakes. When I say a lot, I mean we barely had any money to show for it by the end. Just around $2,000. That money was spent on a trip across the country to film an effect (which was a complete bust) as well as regular costs to upkeep the website and such.

So here I was. I wanted to put out a second deck of playing cards, but had no money to do so. The first deck was successful enough to get us most of the original money back, and my parents still believed in me. I wouldn't be anywhere without them, honestly. We received a small $10k credit line from our bank for the business, and this would pay for the Mystery Deck. In the beginning, mistakes were made again. We had more wholesale orders than last time (to those of you asking, yes — we do wholesale. We've wholesaled continuously to about 10 companies, most of them in Asia). Mistakes were made, shipments were damaged, and we were out of our money again. This time, with a $6k outstanding credit to pay.

I decided that enough was enough. We would count our losses (mostly my parents, as horrible as I felt), and we decided we wouldn't produce a third deck.

This is when I began really getting serious about design. I felt horrible about letting my parents down financially (even though they're so proud of me and let me know it all the time), the more I thought about it — I decided I needed to get them their money back. They didn't ask for it. I wanted to get it. I said I would cut the costs by designing it myself. It would be a difficult task, and it was.

When finished designing, I did something a bit risky, which is where most of you are seeing an issue. I put up the deck on the Bedeceived website without having the money up front. There was no money up front, so it was impossible to do so. I felt confident (no pun intended) that the deck would sell out quickly, we would have the money, and all would be right with the world. We would finish up that deck, pay off my parents' debt, and I could move on to being a full-time designer.

Well, as Murphy's law would have it, it didn't. The deck funded on our site just about 50% (mostly from wholesale). The USPCC didn't even ask for the downpayment up front, and began printing the deck. I figured the other 50% would come eventually. The other decks had sold out before that amount of time, so why wouldn't this one? Orders slowed to a complete halt, and I was left with $4000 still to collect to get the deck. I approached the House of Playing Cards about purchasing all of the decks to sell on their own site, to no avail. I tried new marketing techniques — nothing. It was then that I decided I would use Kickstarter to fund the rest of the money I needed.

I understood from the get-go that it looked a little strange. I didn't, and still don't, think I did anything wrong by using Kickstarter. My biggest mistake was in taking the risk of preorders through my site without the money to back them up if they didn't fund completely. I had a responsibility to my customers, however, to see the deck through. So I launched on Kickstarter in hopes that the familiar platform and multiple rewards would spur people into buying. I set the goal as low as I humanly could, and launched. It funded (as you see) within 24 hours, and that makes me hopeful that the deck will ship out (hopefully with no problems) as planned, I will recoup the money I owe my parents, and have a clean slate to begin the rest of my professional life.

Someone mentioned this being a labor of love. It definitely is. I have not personally seen a dime out of this. Even when this is over, I will not see a dime. The money will fly right out the door to the USPCC, the USPS, and then finally, the bank credit line. I will not receive money, I will not see profit. So this project wasn't my "exit strategy" to cut and run from my customers. It was a way of me fulfilling my responsibility to my customers, my parents, and myself.

That's why I'm hoping a few of you will change your minds. Even if you don't back the project, I'd just like to know that I have the community on my side here. I've never used my age as an excuse for any of my mistakes. I knew it would be difficult going into it. I didn't realize how difficult it would really be, and because of that I've made a lot of mistakes. I'll be the first one to admit that.

Why didn't I post this long story before? Firstly, I didn't think launching on Kickstarter would be a huge deal to the majority of people. I thought a couple people might find it odd, but I could simply explain what I've already explained and that would be fine. But mostly, I was embarrassed. No one wants to admit they've put their parents in debt. It's not like they're not able to afford food or anything like that. The debt isn't that bad. But it's debt nonetheless. No one likes to admit that they've made a bunch of mistakes, or that after 2 successful products they have nothing to show for it. No one wants to admit any of that.

So hopefully I've made myself clearer with that monumental post. If you read it all, please go get some fresh air . I promise I'm not a bad guy. I'm not out to hurt anyone, cheat anyone, or lie. I've been as honest as I've thought I've needed to be throughout all of my business. I pride myself in that, and want to show that to everyone else, too.

If anyone has any questions for me, I'd be happy to answer them either on here, or via email at ceo@bedeceived.com. Thank you for taking the time to read this post, and have a great night.

Collin

Boy do I have an easy answer for this... Buy what you like!  Problem solved.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I do want to make a couple of clarifications...

HOPC is a company/website.  NOC is one of the decks we'll be offering, and it will be available in different varieties.

We will NOT be offering one single "perfect" deck.  There's no such thing.  We will be offering decks that will appeal to different desires.  Some people want decks that are good for magic.  Some want decks that are more collectable.  Some want fully custom, others don't.  There is no "one size fits all" solution.  A lot more info will be available on Tuesday.

For the Mystery deck, it appears to be a simple case of independent creation and weird timing between Collin and HOPC.  It's happened to others in the past, and I'm sure it'll happen again.  From what I've been reading, the NOC and Mystery decks will definitely have some differences.  Take a look at everything when it comes out, and buy the deck that meets your needs and desires.

Excellent post.  I agree whole-heartedly. 

Hey guys!

I can assure you, the faces will be well worth it.  There's reasoning behind us doing the solid backs, and Evan has pretty much nailed most of it.

Hopefully you will  show up with something unique as you said (as i said soo many decks being released)

I honestly think this is something that will differ from anything else out there.  But it's a Mystery

Quote from: Bedeceived on March 11, 2012, 05:16:04 PM

The decks sold out today!  i want to give another huge thank you to all of you who purchased.  Now if only we can sell out these uncut sheets!

I've seen the kings and some queens of the Mystery Deck, and omg are they amazing.  I think you guys are seriously going to love them - and I think they bring something totally unique to the field.  I know a lot of people say that, but these are seriously unique.  We didn't show our designer ANY playing card designs for inspiration.  We only showed some art and told him our concept.  Again, we went with a non-playing card designer like with the first deck, however Jason did not design this one. I really think you guys are going to enjoy it.

Collin

Also, cue the obligatory 'when do you think it'll be released?' at the first mention of a new deck. I doubt the name of the deck 'Mystery' will deter them from asking!

We're hoping to release it in June!  So far I've only seen the kings and a queen, and we're developing around a card every day or 2.  So by the time the final touches are put on and everything is printed, it will be June

Congrats on selling out of them! That's a huge accomplishment for the company. I'll be honest... I didn't except the Style deck to go very far but it did and I was extremely happy with the deck. I'm very excited to see the Mystery deck!

Thank you! Me too!

You guys have a wonderful community here.  I have the Shell, but I'm certainly honored to be a part of this group of people.


Collin

Of course.  I've learned a lot from looking at some recent deck releases that got some pretty bad reviews based on the facts that it was crap in a pretty box.


Thank you for the tips!

Collin

Hey guys!  I want to say thank you to all of you who have ordered the Style Deck thus far!  Hopefully most of you have enjoyed them!  They've been getting great reviews on Youtube and Facebook, so that's something great! 


I recognize the two main art concerns - the court cards and the backs.  I'd like to address them here, even if I've addressed them elsewhere.  Hopefully it will convince some of you to own this deck, and if not - at least it will offer some insight into some of our motivations   I plan to go in more detail here than I have elsewhere.


The backs:  I can honestly say that the backs did not look amazing on the photoshop mockups pictures.  I agree there.  I liked them from the start, but as people pointed out different things they definitely lost value to me.  In the beginning we asked for a design that incorporated the logo.  We wanted something simple that incorporated the logo, because we were trying to build up our brand.  We're a new company, so having that brand recognition was one thing that was kept on the forefront.  You can see the logo on the box, the back design, and the jokers.  I admit that is a lot of branding, however it gives a good "theme" to the deck (honestly) and with our next decks we're going for much less branding and logo-ing. 


One thing I do have to say about the back design is that you cannot judge it until you have it in your hands.  I know that sounds like a cop-out to get you to buy it, but I'm serious.  Like I said, I wasn't too wild about it after a while, but when i got my first deck and pulled them out of the box - I instantly fell in love.  While I may be a bit biased, I seriously love the backs, and they really POP and draw attention (in a good way of course).  Along with the dots on the tuck box, it adds a casino sort of feel to it.  These backs are definitely unique, and the only similarity between them and any deck I can find is the Smoke and Mirrors with the logo, but even that is completely different in this regard.  They are one of a kind, and when spread out they have a nice red ribbon going across them, which adds a cool touch to your ribbon spreads. 


Next comes the court cards.  I've explained these the most, and I can completely 100% see where people feel they look like the Sentinels.  I've never disagreed with that.  What I've disagreed with is that they are the same thing.  If you look closely (Evan does a great job of showing them side by side) the Sentinels are a lot busier and use more color.  What IS similar is the "zoomed out" look.  You could say the shape is the same, but the shape is the same as a bicycle deck - just zoomed out without the border around it.  So yes, they look similar.  They aren't the same, and personally - while I love the Sentinels a lot (they were my favorite at one point) - I like the Style Deck's court cards a lot more.  They're very simple, easy to recognize, and definitely "stylish". 


To add another point, these are the best cards I've ever felt.  They are perfect for how I like my cards to feel.  Really soft and springy. They spring great, anaconda like a dream, and plus the box is really really awesome (my favorite part).


Also remember that we have a 60 day guarantee.  I'm honestly saying that you need to look at these backs yourself and let them grow on you.  Buy them, check them out, and if they don't grow on you you can send them back in their original condition and I will refund all of your money and even pay for the shipping back.  That's how sure I am that these will grow on you.  And if not, hey!  There's always next deck (Which has begun design)!


tl;dr:  Just get them.  If you don't like them you can send them back.




Hope you all have a great day, and if you have any questions at all you can post in this thread (I'll try to check it often) or email me at ceo@bedeceived.com.  We also have a pretty cool live chat feature on the site that goes straight to me when I'm online, so you can ask stuff on there. 


Love,
Collin

I want to thank everyone in this thread for being supportive and constructive with your feedback.  The sales tonight have exceeded even my expectations, and I hope they continue to do so! 

Thank you all again!

Sincerely,
Collin Stover
Bedeceived