The Multitude Game Set

[RandCo]

I’ve designed a playing cards and dice set that may be of interest to the viewers of this forum.  It’s called the Multitude Game Set.

It contains custom playing cards, but they are designed for function, not for artistic, themed, or historic purposes like most of the custom playing card decks featured on this forum.  The influence for the game set did come from a custom playing card set though, one I designed called the Bicycle MYRIAD Playing Card Set.

The Multitude Game Set will be available on Kickstarter July 1st through July 30th.

The website for the game set is MultitudeGameSet.com.  http://multitudegameset.com

I welcome any comments regarding the game set.



Here is the basic information for the game set:


Introducing the Multitude Game Set. The Strategy of Cards. The Excitement of Dice.

Bring 50 games with you anywhere.

The Multitude Game Set features 50 different games.  All 50 games use BOTH cards and dice.

The box is small and easy to bring with you to game nights, poker nights, parties, camping, family gatherings, or just hanging out with friends. Most of the games are short, so you can play a few to several different games in the time it takes to play one typical board game.

Many of the games in this set are variations of popular card games which have been adapted to integrate dice into the game. There are also some variations of popular dice games which have been adapted to integrate cards.  There are also original Cards and Dice games.

This Game Set also includes Board Games which use cards and dice.  Some of the board games are inspired by classic board games and some are original. There are also some games that use dice rolling skills where accuracy is used to score points.

The Game Set includes a 2 piece cardboard game box, 72 Poker Size Cards, 8 large Game Board Cards, 50 12 millimeter Dice, and Game Rules booklet with 50 games.

The box and cards will be printed by MPC, MakePlayingCards.com, and the dice will be supplied by Chessex.

The website with information on the set, photos and illustrations, and game rules is MultitudeGameSet.com. The website also has links to the Twitter site and Facebook page.

[Don Boyer]

Hey, you'll notice that I moved your topic to the Conversation Parlor.  We reserve the Playing Card Plethora for decks that conform to international standard - the four standard suits, the thirteen standard values, perhaps a few jokers, etc.

It's great that you've come up with a unique game system - but it's not something that everyone here collects, hence the reason for the move.

From a personal perspective, what about your game system makes it wholly unique from having a pack of ordinary cards and a pair of dice?  This is not a flippant or snarky question - you really need to have a good answer for this if you're planning to convince people to buy it over what's already selling at the chain drugstore, which is ordinary dice, standard cards, Uno decks, etc.

[RandCo]

Hi Don,

Putting this post in The Conversation Parlor is more appropriate.  I rarely look at this section and I forgot about it.

There are 2 main reasons this playing set is unique. 

First, most card games or dice games just use cards or dice, all of the games in this set use both cards and dice.  The combination creates interesting new versions of standard games.  There are new game mechanic combinations which give the games new mixes of luck and strategy.

Second, there are 50 different games in the Rules Book.  That’s a lot of games that can be played with a small game box.  There are also a wide variety of games in the set.  Everything from easy strategy games kids can play to high strategy games with little or no luck.  All of the games are new and exclusive to this set.  There are only about 20 of the games on the website now, but more will be added as the Kickstarter gets closer.

There are simple dice rolling games that are mostly luck for kids and families, as well as dice games that use push your luck, bluffing, and wagering strategy.  There are even a few dice games that are contests of the player’s ability to roll dice accurately, similar to Bocci Ball or shuffleboard.

There are board games that are interesting variations of some classic board games as well as some original ones.  There will be variations of Backgammon, Checkers, and Chess for example.  The Chess-like game uses dice with different numbers up to indicate how many moves the piece can make and other rule variations, but it is still a high strategy one-on-one game.

There are a lot of card games in this set which are variations of classic card games with dice mechanics worked into the game.  Your comparison to Uno is appropriate, in the sense that Uno uses color suits and is a variation of the classic card game Crazy Eights.  The difference is my set has lots of card games, not just one, and they incorporate dice.  There is a cards and dice variation of Crazy Eights in the game rules book coincidently.

One of the card games is a variation of Blackjack called Stand Or Bust.  In this game, instead of the goal number being 21 every game, dice are rolled to determine the goal number, so the goal number in this game can be anywhere from 18 to 24.  The dice are rolled for each round of players versus the dealer, so each round is different.  The ranks of the cards are only 1 through 6, so it’s less risky to hit, which also makes the game different.

There are also Poker games in the rules book.  In addition to incorporating dice into the Poker games, there are extra hands that can be made using the decks in this set.  The cards in the set belong to 1 of 6 color suits, and are 1 through 6 in rank.  This means that the odds of drawing a particular suit or a particular rank are the same, 1 in 6.  This makes an interesting symmetry.  The odds of drawing a hand with 3 of a Kind using 4’s is the same as drawing a hand with 3 of a Kind using Green suits.  So the Poker hands in this set include "Of A Kind" hands using the same color.  For example, 4 of a Kind using Blue cards.  The standard way of making "Of A Kind" hands with ranks does still outrank ones using colors.  For example, 3 5’s outrank 3 Oranges.  Also because the ranks only go up to 6, it's trickier to determine how good of a hand a player may have. 

Do we need another Blackjack or more Poker games?  Of course not, but variety is the spice of life, and it’s fun to try new things.

As far as the difference between this set and just bringing standard cards and dice, it’s all about the games in this set.  The combination of the cards and dice, with the 36 cards in a deck matching the 36 sides of the 6 color dice, also make it physically different from standard cards.  There are 2 decks of 36 cards for a total of 72 cards.

People could buy 3 decks of standard cards and modify the Ace through 6 with permanent markers to replicate the cards.  And buy colored D6 dice or modify white dice with permanent markers to replicate the dice, then use the rules from the website to play the games.  But I think if people go to the trouble of that, they will probably be interested enough to buy the set.  It’s common for a lot of card and board games to have a "print and play" digital version of the game on their website to generate interest and allow players to test a game before they buy it.

Your question gets to the heart of the matter.  Did you visit the website?  I think it is explained better there.

The 3 sides of the box top which can’t be seen in the photo say 'BRING 50 GAMES WITH YOU ANYWHERE', 'ALL 50 EXCLUSIVE GAMES USE BOTH CARDS AND DICE', and 'PLAY FUN VARIATIONS OF CLASSIC CARD, DICE, AND BOARD GAMES'.

I am going to change the the Games section of my website based on your input.  Right now I have the games listed with a very brief minimal description of the games.  I am going to give each game a page of it's own linked to the list.  The page will have a more complete description of the game and a link to the PDF rules.

Thanks for your comments.

[Don Boyer]

Well, consider this.

Perhaps instead of trying to sell a deck of cards, with dice and a rulebook, maybe you should be selling a book of games.

If there are ways of playing these unique games with standard cards and dice, or perhaps a combination of standard and non-standard, you could make the project a whole lot more affordable if you're only selling a rulebook - you could distribute it digitally on the cheap or as a "premium boxed set" or a "travel set" in combination with the standard cards and dice needed to play.

If you can make such modifications, you could make your product far more affordable and perhaps as a result, more popular.

The short version of this is that it looks like you're trying to reinvent the wheel when there's plenty of good wheels out there - maybe what you should be selling is the cart!

[RandCo]

Most of the games use the 'playing cards matching the sides of the 6 dice' game mechanic.  This isn’t possible with standard playing cards, at least not without a 13 sided dice.  For example, in one of the most simple easy strategy games, players roll dice to try to match the dice roll to cards in their hand.  If the roll matches, they discard that card, the first player to get rid of all of their cards wins.

I see your point about a book of game rules, but there is a game mechanic aspect to the set that requires special cards.

The game set allows up to 8 players to have their own set of 6 dice.  Most of the games don’t require players to have their own set, and the dice could be shared, but there is something tactile about having your own set of dice.  Because most of the games require some level of luck, there is a superstitious and irrational, but tangible feeling that "your own dice" will somehow give you more luck.

The Kickstarter pledge for the game set is only $25.  There is a popular retail dice game that uses 40 of the same 12mm dice that are in my game set and only a small 1 sheet booklet.  The dice game is called Tenzi and it is priced at $15 in stores.  My game set has 10 more dice at 50, 72 playing cards, 8 large board game cards, and a 50 game rules book for only $10 more.  Not as cheap as a deck of cards and some standard dice, but it is a good value because all 50 of the included games are new and exclusive to my game set.

[Don Boyer]

Most of the games use the 'playing cards matching the sides of the 6 dice' game mechanic.  This isn’t possible with standard playing cards, at least not without a 13 sided dice.  For example, in one of the most simple easy strategy games, players roll dice to try to match the dice roll to cards in their hand.  If the roll matches, they discard that card, the first player to get rid of all of their cards wins.

I see your point about a book of game rules, but there is a game mechanic aspect to the set that requires special cards.

The game set allows up to 8 players to have their own set of 6 dice.  Most of the games don’t require players to have their own set, and the dice could be shared, but there is something tactile about having your own set of dice.  Because most of the games require some level of luck, there is a superstitious and irrational, but tangible feeling that "your own dice" will somehow give you more luck.

The Kickstarter pledge for the game set is only $25.  There is a popular retail dice game that uses 40 of the same 12mm dice that are in my game set and only a small 1 sheet booklet.  The dice game is called Tenzi and it is priced at $15 in stores.  My game set has 10 more dice at 50, 72 playing cards, 8 large board game cards, and a 50 game rules book for only $10 more.  Not as cheap as a deck of cards and some standard dice, but it is a good value because all 50 of the included games are new and exclusive to my game set.

Ah, but consider this - your project could be considerably more inexpensive IF you did the following:

Either:
swap 6-sided dice for either four-sided or 8-sided and alter the game mechanics
OR
print not an entire new deck, but simply two new suits in a new color but using an existing and popular card back.

The former solution would be the simplest, requiring no new items to be produced that don't already exist beyond the rule book.

The latter solution would be fairly easy - you'd be producing a deck of only 26 cards using, for example, the popular Bicycle Rider Back (Standard) design in either red or blue (or perhaps even both, either separately or together in a 52-card deck).  For example, you could make two blue suits using stars and dots, or maybe two green suits of leaves and flowers, which would then be combined with a standard deck of Bicycle playing cards to make your larger deck.

To facilitate the larger deck size, you could sell a deluxe package that included a high-quality box in plastic, wood and/or metal large enough for all 78 cards along with room for the rule book, and for people wanting to buy the cards and play the games on the cheap, you just sell them the cards and a digital download of the rules.  If people don't already have Bicycle Standard cards at home and live in that rare corner of the world where they're scarce and Amazon won't deliver, sell them as a cheap add-on - they're available for about a buck a pack in bulk.

In addition, there are companies selling plastic sleeves with uniformly-designed, opaque backs and clear faces for collectible card games like Magic: the Gathering and Pokemon.  A box of 80-100 sleeves with opaque backs sells for between $5-$10 at retail and would allow them to combine your cards with ANY deck of standard poker-sized playing cards from any manufacturer because the card backs would be concealed by the sleeves.  If you couldn't fathom or afford working with USPC to print your cards with Bicycle backs, this allows you the option of making your cards with any company you please and making them compatible with any other company's standard playing card deck.  Buy the sleeves and the dice and make just the extra cards - you're probably spending less money.  Though I'd say using a popular card back is the easier way to go, this is a possible alternative.

Again, it's a matter of seeing that you need not reinvent the wheel, just make a new cart.  There are options to re-inventing the deck of cards from scratch, options worth considering because they might make your project more affordable, thus increasing your chances of success and perhaps even your profit margin.

[RandCo]

During the evolution of this game there was a design that used standard playing cards. 

The design used 2 standard Bicycle decks in a Poker Set configuration with one deck having a gold Rider back and the other having a silver Rider back. The suits were in 4 different colors which matched 4 colored dice in a dice set. The 4 dice combined with a 5th black dice were used to match a 2 dice roll with every card in the deck. 

It was submitted to the custom card division of Bicycle (USPCC).  The custom division liked it, but the brand manager and legal division rejected it because Bicycle does not produce games, only cards and dice as separate products.

The Bicycle game set would have actually cost more than the current design and because the minimum amount to be printed would have been 2,500, the Kickstarter goal would have been significantly higher.

If all of the games in the set were mostly card based, then a standard card variation would be more advisable.  There are several mostly dice based games in the set, and there are board game games that use dice and the special board game cards.

I will definitely consider your suggestion of a Rule Book based product for the future.  It actually fits in somewhat with another "rules based" card product I am working on.

[Don Boyer]

During the evolution of this game there was a design that used standard playing cards. 

The design used 2 standard Bicycle decks in a Poker Set configuration with one deck having a gold Rider back and the other having a silver Rider back. The suits were in 4 different colors which matched 4 colored dice in a dice set. The 4 dice combined with a 5th black dice were used to match a 2 dice roll with every card in the deck. 

It was submitted to the custom card division of Bicycle (USPCC).  The custom division liked it, but the brand manager and legal division rejected it because Bicycle does not produce games, only cards and dice as separate products.

The Bicycle game set would have actually cost more than the current design and because the minimum amount to be printed would have been 2,500, the Kickstarter goal would have been significantly higher.

If all of the games in the set were mostly card based, then a standard card variation would be more advisable.  There are several mostly dice based games in the set, and there are board game games that use dice and the special board game cards.

I will definitely consider your suggestion of a Rule Book based product for the future.  It actually fits in somewhat with another "rules based" card product I am working on.

...and there's also the fact that some other companies have created gold and silver Rider Back decks!

I think there's a way you could have done it.  For example, you might have ordered just the extra cards, then packaged it yourself with a standard Bicycle deck and the dice.  When you're ordering decks from USPC, you don't necessarily have to tell how they're being sold, do you?  Or for that matter, if they're even being sold?  I mean, there are magicians that order decks strictly for their own consumption!  Some often end up on the market, but many never do, and if they do, it's only because they gave some as a gift and it's in the after-market, not the direct market.

But it sounds like you have a clear reason for not using that idea.  It's something to consider, though.

I know of a guy here on the forum who had a concept for "simplifying" playing cards by adding more court cards and suited jokers to a standard deck.  In my own experience, at least from playing certain types of solitaire, it just made things more complicated - never won a single game, defying the odds for the number of times I played (using odds for a standard deck, of course).  I had suggested to him that his deck could have been less costly if he made it as sort of an "expansion set" to an existing standard poker deck, but he insisted on a custom index design and four-colored suits.  He even had plans for creating a custom casino game to go with his deck and selling it to casinos, but I tried to explain to him that players would never cotton to it - they're very traditional to start with, it would have been just a little bit too alien and would have required way too much explanation to the average bettor.

I haven't heard from him here in a while - I wonder what he's up to.

[RandCo]

The Multitude Game Set is now live on Kickstarter.

Here is a link to the Kickstarter site:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1165148286/multitude-game-set

The campaign runs through August 6th.