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About the thinnest deck made by USPC

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About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« on: August 19, 2019, 09:11:26 AM »
 

touya

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hi!
Nice to meet you, I am a collector in Japan.
What is the thinnest deck you know from USPC?

I am studying the thinnest deck in USPC.

The thinnest deck I know is 'US marine corps playing cards'.

There are many playing cards that I don't know yet. It is very difficult by individual power.
If you know more about this playing cards, please let me know.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 11:04:55 AM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2019, 05:47:42 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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hi!
Nice to meet you, I am a collector in Japan.
What is the thinnest deck you know from USPC?

I am studying the thinnest deck in USPC.

The thinnest deck I know is 'us marine plays cards'.

There are many playing cards that I don't know yet. It is very difficult by individual power.
If you know more about this playing cards, please let me know.

These days, USPC makes several decks with what they call "Thin-Crush" stock - it's their regular stock, pressed thinner when sandwiching the layers of paper together.  It makes the cards more pliable and soft right out of the box, but at the same time I'm told it reduces their ability to withstand wear-and-tear of frequent use.  You should look for some of them.
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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2019, 06:30:45 PM »
 

touya

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Thank you for your reply!

I have checked the crushed stock to some extent.
Until 2019, the decks for the cardiology were thin.
In particular, the decks towards cardistry-con 2019 were very thin and those using D & D's own crushed stock were thin.
My turn HOTEL CASINO playing cards
Ace Fulton's pink edition playing cards
cardistry-con 2019 (green) playing cards
ANYONE/D & D MIRROR playing cards
Fontaine Carrots V3 playing cards
bicycle suite line playing cards
Gemini Casino Emerald Green playing cards
These are very high quality and my recommendation: -)



But that's still a general level of discussion.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2019, 06:33:19 PM »
 

touya

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correction
I have checked the crushed stock to some extent.
Until 2019, the decks for the  『cardistry 』 were thin.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2019, 06:50:38 PM »
 

touya

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correction
bicycle supreme line playing cards
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2019, 07:12:14 PM »
 

touya

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I measured 52 sheets,
My turn HOTEL CASINO playing cards, which was the thinnest, were 13.95 mm.

The thickness of the US Marine Corps playing cards is only about 12.7 mm, although it varies from deck to deck.

Also, from the content of the advertisement card, I think there is a high possibility that it is 'government supplied goods' but since there is no information overseas, I would like to know what kind of deck it is.

I'm going to work now, so I'll prepare pictures after work.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2019, 01:26:45 AM »
 

touya

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First of all, looking back at the history of playing cards made by USPCC, I think they started using very thin paper stock around 83. The general perception is that many magicians feel that the bike at the 84 Los Angeles Olympics has become much thinner.

My guess is that the move to acquire ARRCO probably started around that time and the number of thin stock deck has increased.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2019, 02:10:05 AM »
 

touya

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I hear that “ARRCO tahoe” is particularly thin among the information I have heard so far.

I think many ARRCO brand decks are very thin.

The following is the data I researched and compiled.

US Marine corps               :12.50~13.20mm
VIRGINIASLIMS             :12.85~13.00mm
Showboat Casino          :12.95~13.10mm
MARLBORO TEXAN 45   :13.15mm
old STUD(※)                      :13.45mm
absolut(※)                         :13.45mm
GENOVESE                  :mm
CLUBCASINO              :13.50mm
elm deck(※)           :13.75mm
supreme line  (blue)      :13.95mm
fire stone (1972)               :13.95~14.00mm
my turn HOTELCASINO   :13.95~14.00mm
cardistry-con2019            :14.00mm
skoal bandit                :14.00mm
fontaine carrot v3      :14.00~14.05mm
gemini casino (緑)     :14.00~14.05mm
Ace Fulton’s pink           :14.15mm
smoke ANYONE               :14.15mm
Elite edition        :14.15mm
ARRCOstreamline(1960):14.20mm
GoldenNugget(1974)      :14.30mm
blue ribbon(kickstarter)  :14.50mm
Gold standard         :14.90mm
bicycle             :14.90~15.20mm
※=reference value
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2019, 02:18:20 AM »
 

touya

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Most of the top decks in this data are USPCC 'ARRCO' brand decks.
It feels like the same stock.

The reason that US marine corps playing cards are the thinnest is probably because they are not plastic coated.
The finish is beautiful, but I felt there was no finish compared to the VERGNIA SLIMS playing cards.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2019, 06:15:33 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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There's one thing you need to bear in mind about stocks.

They vary even within the same batch in terms of their thickness, never mind from batch to batch.  So you could buy a dozen of the same deck and discover that every single deck has some variances in their thickness.

When you order custom playing cards to be made by USPC, you're offered stocks that come within a range of thicknesses, and the ranges overlap.  If you do a quick search of this forum, you'll find it's discussed in a few topics.
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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2019, 10:39:47 PM »
 

touya

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You are right.
As long as it is mass-produced by machines, it is impossible to make exactly the same thing, so I understand the difference between lots and individual variations.
The data I have looked at shows that I have some obviously thin playing cards open to give an average for my deck.

Does it mean that USPCC can specify an approximate 'Thickness' within the threshold when placing an order?
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2019, 04:43:02 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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You are right.
As long as it is mass-produced by machines, it is impossible to make exactly the same thing, so I understand the difference between lots and individual variations.
The data I have looked at shows that I have some obviously thin playing cards open to give an average for my deck.

Does it mean that USPCC can specify an approximate 'Thickness' within the threshold when placing an order?

No.  You can order a range, and that's it.  You don't get to pick within that range.
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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2019, 09:21:16 AM »
 

touya

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These thin decks were widely distributed from about 1983 to 2000. A Japanese collector has hypothesized that one of the possibilities would be 'Was the stock owned by ARRCO used?' but it is not realistic for ARRCO to have had 'pulp stock' to produce for nearly 20 years.

In any case, I heard from many Japanese old collectors and gained knowledge, but no one has all the USPCC playing cards sold from the 1800s to this year. Finding the thinnest USPCC deck requires the cooperation of cardistry, magicians and collectors around the world.

For example, decks produced in 'International Playing Card Company' were used in many promotional decks, such as orders from universities, companies, and individuals. Many of them were smooth finish and even without embossing, but they were thin, so I remember the quality was high.

Some of these small lot production decks may no longer exist because they are now gone.

Mr. Don Boyer, what kind of deck is the thinnest one you've ever seen?

As long as it is a general commercial product other than a magic special order product, it is OK if it is not made by USPCC.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2019, 09:23:31 AM »
 

touya

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thickness survey
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2019, 09:24:44 AM »
 

touya

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thickness survey
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2019, 04:00:34 PM »
 

Justin O.

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What about the Hollingworths?
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2019, 03:17:02 PM »
 

Justin O.

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  • Charm gets you quite far. Guile gets you the rest.
@Don, didn't Dan & Dave always claim to have signature thin stock as well? For several of their decks independent of the Hollingworths?
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2019, 05:05:40 AM »
 

touya

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Thanks for the information.
I knew that Hollingwords playing cards existed, but I didn't know the details.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2019, 03:47:44 AM »
 

touya

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I don't own Hollingwords playing cards so I would like someone to measure the thickness of 52 pieces.

Deck was not distributed in Japan.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2019, 03:18:48 PM »
 

Justin O.

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  • Charm gets you quite far. Guile gets you the rest.
I will try to remember when I get home, but my memory is very bad. Here is an image comparing Hollingworths to a standard bike deck
Kickstarter completely revolutionized the way I waste money.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2019, 06:37:21 AM »
 

touya

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Thank you for your reply!

After you told me about Hollingworth, I searched forums.

Many people often compare it to normal bicycle deck.

It's hard to say because the quality and thickness of normal bicycle deck are different depending on the year of manufacture. X- <

If you have the chance, I would like you to measure the thickness of 52 sheets: -)
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2019, 06:42:04 AM »
 

touya

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Also, I will buy 'micrometer' soon and measure again.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2019, 09:31:32 AM »
 

Eddie Hughlett

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touya,

Have you asked Magic Orthodoxy this question? He usually measures 10 cards with a micrometer in his deck reviews, but on the review of the GH decks he does not. Perhaps he would measure the deck for you?

Hope this helps

-eh
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 09:33:04 AM by Eddie Hughlett »
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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2019, 09:46:34 AM »
 

touya

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Thank you for your reply.

GH deck is still distributed overseas and you can buy new one.

I'm not talking about it here, but my wife is pregnant and sick, so I gave up buying it for my livelihood.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2019, 03:38:59 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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These thin decks were widely distributed from about 1983 to 2000. A Japanese collector has hypothesized that one of the possibilities would be 'Was the stock owned by ARRCO used?' but it is not realistic for ARRCO to have had 'pulp stock' to produce for nearly 20 years.

In any case, I heard from many Japanese old collectors and gained knowledge, but no one has all the USPCC playing cards sold from the 1800s to this year. Finding the thinnest USPCC deck requires the cooperation of cardistry, magicians and collectors around the world.

For example, decks produced in 'International Playing Card Company' were used in many promotional decks, such as orders from universities, companies, and individuals. Many of them were smooth finish and even without embossing, but they were thin, so I remember the quality was high.

Some of these small lot production decks may no longer exist because they are now gone.

Mr. Don Boyer, what kind of deck is the thinnest one you've ever seen?

As long as it is a general commercial product other than a magic special order product, it is OK if it is not made by USPCC.

The absolute thinnest deck I've ever seen was exactly that, a specialized deck manufactured for use by magicians.  It's the Phoenix Double Decker - two decks in a tuck box the same size as a standard tuck box.  The cards are half the standard thickness - and they're marked and have a one-way marking on the backs.  They're available from the producer, Card Shark, at http://card-shark.de.

Sorry to hear about your wife - I hope she recovers soon and your child is OK.

The device you're using in your photos is similar to a micrometer, but a good micrometer, digital or analog, will give you increments of 0.01 mm.  Your device looks like a caliper - a simpler measuring device, not as precise as a micrometer, which is technically a type of caliper.

Measuring the thickness of a single deck will NOT give you an accurate measure of a deck's thickness - as odd as that sounds.  The issue is that the thickness of the pasteboard used to make playing cars is NOT of a uniformly consistent thickness.  There can even be variances of thickness among cards within a single deck.  Simply put, as careful as a manufacturer may be in the creation of its paper and pasteboard made from that paper, it's not done with only a limited amount of precision, allowing the thickness of a deck to be just right to fit in a box of cards - but there's a lot of "wiggle room" within that standard.  So measuring one deck in a print run and measuring another deck in a print run, odds are that if you're measuring to a certain degree of accuracy, you'll reach a point where very few of the decks are precisely the same thickness, but that the overall print run will be within a certain range of thicknesses.

It makes little sense to obsess that much over finding the thinnest deck out there when there's so much irregularity in their manufacture.  You could declare that "Deck X" is the thinnest, then I could find a "Deck X" that's thicker, one that's thinner, a "Deck Y" that's thinner, etc.  It's like expecting a plain, common spool of rope made from twined strands to be of a uniform thickness for its entire length, when the twining of the strands makes such a degree of uniformity impossible.

Now, you CAN find a deck that's generally thinner in its print run, you can find a deck that's generally thicker in its print run, but not one that's uniformly thinner, especially since there are relatively few stocks used by each manufacturer.  USPC makes two kinds of stock, "standard" (mostly used for Bicycle) and "casino grade" (mostly used for Bee), and each of these stocks is available in a "thin crush" version, whereby they press the stock with more pressure between the rollers when binding the two layers of paper with the graphite-infused glue in-between.  The biggest issue that they run into in terms of consistency is that they don't make that paper - they make the pasteboard from the paper, but the paper itself is produced by paper mills and they order it from them - and they don't have as much control over that paper.  There's also regulations that require a certain percentage of all newly-manufactured paper to have a certain amount of recycled content, especially "post-consumer" recycled content, which has a much worse consistency and shorter fibers.

They're not the only company that runs into such issues, I'm sure.
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