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About the thinnest deck made by USPC

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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2019, 01:20:50 AM »
 

touya

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Thank you for your reply.

Playing cards and manipulation cards for magic are about half as thin as bicycle deck.
There is no point in comparing the quality of these and the line deck sold to the public because they are used for different purposes.

The  Vernier used for the measurement is cheap. I'm sorry.
This is only measured as a rough guide for publication on the Internet.
For example, to explain that bee is thicker than bicycle, I thought it would be easier to understand if it was written in rough numbers.

Thank you for your concern about my wife's illness.
I will do my best to support wife.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2019, 01:36:47 AM »
 

touya

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You can learn about playing cards manufacturing in this forum. Thank you always for your very clear explanation!

However, your explanation is just a big point of view on the producer side, and is it not about the standard of one brand?

To put it another way, when we produce bicycle, we just say, 'The thickness of bicycle shall be specified as 14.9 mm ± 0.3 mm.' It's not like looking for thin ones among existing old playing cards

You can also see that playing cards made in the pre-1900s hand-writing era have very different thicknesses.
However, the bicycle in the 80s was clearly thinner than the current model, but it never got thinner or thicker by 2mm or 3mm.


The range of manufacturing error in terms of the thickness of each brand depends on the production year, but I think it's up to about 1 sheet.

I think the error of more than 2 sheet is second quality.

For example, the US marine corps and VERGNIA SLIMS that we are talking about this time are close to the production date, and I think it is no problem to say that they are almost the same thickness as machine recipes.
I think the reason the US marine corps is slightly thinner is because the finish is simpler than VERGNIA SLIMS.
In other words, each plastic coating has a different thickness, so the measurement results show a slight difference. Of course the quality is different.

The quality you like depends on the person.
Many people will dislike the very thin and soft quality of US marine corps.
However, if you are a woman or a child, you can use this deck very much when you practice poker size.

In fact, as long as there are very thin decks, each with its own quality, and as long as there is a worldwide demand for manageable decks, I think this endless agenda is worth pursuing.

In other words, I hope that I can supplement the history of playing cards and help the creators of new playing cards by keeping records for future generations
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 09:32:03 AM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2019, 03:53:04 AM »
 

touya

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The agenda will be 'Exploring the thinnest deck in the USPCC'
In terms of thickness,
There are probably a lot of decks that are thinner than US marine corps.
For example, the Congress brand is mostly a bridge-sized or small-sized memento, but the old Congress I have is very thin.

The playing cards I am looking for are:
For use by magicians, gamblers and cardistry,
*Poker size.
*Playing cards that are not intended for special use and are generally available.
*To be made of paper.
*Made by USPCC
The above is the rule.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
The industry and the manufacturing industry have been digitizing more and more to improve efficiency, but we humans, who deal with decks, are analog.
So I think it's natural to want a deck that is easy to handle.

It is not only a matter of playing cards manufacturing.

The manufacturing industry is greatly affected by external factors such as the historical background of production, poor forest production, and political issues such as war, taxes and environmental problems.

The USPCC OHIO plant has a long history of producing a wide variety of playing cards.
It is difficult to grasp all of them, but I hope the investigation of the thickness will be an index for the future of playing cards.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2019, 04:46:28 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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The agenda will be 'Exploring the thinnest deck in the USPCC'
In terms of thickness,
There are probably a lot of decks that are thinner than US marine corps.
For example, the Congress brand is mostly a bridge-sized or small-sized memento, but the old Congress I have is very thin.

The playing cards I am looking for are:
For use by magicians, gamblers and cardistry,
*Poker size.
*Playing cards that are not intended for special use and are generally available.
*To be made of paper.
*Made by USPCC
The above is the rule.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
The industry and the manufacturing industry have been digitizing more and more to improve efficiency, but we humans, who deal with decks, are analog.
So I think it's natural to want a deck that is easy to handle.

It is not only a matter of playing cards manufacturing.

The manufacturing industry is greatly affected by external factors such as the historical background of production, poor forest production, and political issues such as war, taxes and environmental problems.

The USPCC OHIO plant has a long history of producing a wide variety of playing cards.
It is difficult to grasp all of them, but I hope the investigation of the thickness will be an index for the future of playing cards.

You mention the Ohio plant.  USPC hasn't printed cards in Ohio since 2009.  The new plant is in a suburb of Cincinnati, but it's on the other side of the Ohio River, in Erlanger, Kentucky - it's closer to the local international airport.  I've had the pleasure of going through a tour of the factory as part of the 52 Plus Joker Club's annual convention back in 2017.

One thing that is a major factor impacting the thickness and uniformity of card stock is that US regulations now require that the paper be made using a high percentage of post consumer recycled content.  This means there's fewer long fibers in the paper, but it also means the overall quality of the paper isn't as high as it once was.  Using your rules you stated in your previous post about what specifications you're looking for, you mentioned specifically that you only wish to consider USPC decks.  This means any new decks will be of this newer, less-consistent, lower-grade of stock.

BTW: I wasn't sure if you're aware, but USPC will be a subsidiary of Cartamundi, a Belgium-based company, before the year is over.  It's in the process of being sold by its current owner, Newell Brands.  With the recent sale of GPI (owners of Kardwell and Gemaco) to Angel Playing Cards of Osaka, that means the only truly American company left making cards that I know of would be Liberty Playing Cards, operated by the same company that owns the Gambler's Warehouse store.
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Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2019, 07:07:30 AM »
 

touya

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The agenda will be 'Exploring the thinnest deck in the USPCC'
In terms of thickness,
There are probably a lot of decks that are thinner than US marine corps.
For example, the Congress brand is mostly a bridge-sized or small-sized memento, but the old Congress I have is very thin.

The playing cards I am looking for are:
For use by magicians, gamblers and cardistry,
*Poker size.
*Playing cards that are not intended for special use and are generally available.
*To be made of paper.
*Made by USPCC
The above is the rule.

The people who handle playing cards are always in a world of delicate fingertip technology.
The industry and the manufacturing industry have been digitizing more and more to improve efficiency, but we humans, who deal with decks, are analog.
So I think it's natural to want a deck that is easy to handle.

It is not only a matter of playing cards manufacturing.

The manufacturing industry is greatly affected by external factors such as the historical background of production, poor forest production, and political issues such as war, taxes and environmental problems.

The USPCC OHIO plant has a long history of producing a wide variety of playing cards.
It is difficult to grasp all of them, but I hope the investigation of the thickness will be an index for the future of playing cards.

You mention the Ohio plant.  USPC hasn't printed cards in Ohio since 2009.  The new plant is in a suburb of Cincinnati, but it's on the other side of the Ohio River, in Erlanger, Kentucky - it's closer to the local international airport.  I've had the pleasure of going through a tour of the factory as part of the 52 Plus Joker Club's annual convention back in 2017.

One thing that is a major factor impacting the thickness and uniformity of card stock is that US regulations now require that the paper be made using a high percentage of post consumer recycled content.  This means there's fewer long fibers in the paper, but it also means the overall quality of the paper isn't as high as it once was.  Using your rules you stated in your previous post about what specifications you're looking for, you mentioned specifically that you only wish to consider USPC decks.  This means any new decks will be of this newer, less-consistent, lower-grade of stock.

BTW: I wasn't sure if you're aware, but USPC will be a subsidiary of Cartamundi, a Belgium-based company, before the year is over.  It's in the process of being sold by its current owner, Newell Brands.  With the recent sale of GPI (owners of Kardwell and Gemaco) to Angel Playing Cards of Osaka, that means the only truly American company left making cards that I know of would be Liberty Playing Cards, operated by the same company that owns the Gambler's Warehouse store.


I know, of course, that USPC was acquired by Cartamundi.
It also shocked collectors and magicians in Japan.
The majority of Japanese people said, 'I think it's the same as before.' but I'm not.

When I learned about the acquisition, I would maintain the status quo for about 20 years, but in the future I expect the USPC to be different and I feel a sense of crisis.

This is because management studies are a repetition of artificial selection and history repeats itself.

As you may know, managers and employees at the OHIO plant used to value tradition far more than users thought.

I also remember that there was a private A special storage room where the old playing cards were stored.

However, I don't like USPCC very much because it doesn't seem to have a direction to respect history and tradition after it shifted to the KY plant and management put profits first.

KY factory-made playing cards have been improved by prominent magicians and cardistry, but we believe that there are limits to that.

However, we have to accept the trend of the times because we cannot survive without mass production.

Cartamundi has pledged to respect, respect and manage the USPCC to the utmost, but it won't last long.

Business management in the present age is like the dinosaur era.
It's easy to imagine another third party trying to make money and monopolize the market, and even Cartamundi being acquired.

When shareholders change, the direction of the company is very unstable.

That's why I think the history of USPCC should be preserved.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 07:41:11 AM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2019, 08:21:10 AM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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Don - just recently I asked USPCC about the paper stock because a few of the people I know who have ordered custom decks had told me that Bicycle is insisting that crushed stock is a separate roll of paper and so I reached out to them and this is the email I got

"Yes, it has been a completely different roll of paper since I started here almost 10 years ago "
Tiffany Mahan Custom Sales Manager

Touya - this is my thickness chart, I don't update it much anymore but my thinnest deck is all the way at the bottom

http://magicorthodoxy.weebly.com/magic-reviews/card-thickness-how-will-these-cards-feel
More Magic and Deck Reviews https://www.youtube.com/magicorthodoxy
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2019, 09:01:03 AM »
 

touya

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Don - just recently I asked USPCC about the paper stock because a few of the people I know who have ordered custom decks had told me that Bicycle is insisting that crushed stock is a separate roll of paper and so I reached out to them and this is the email I got

"Yes, it has been a completely different roll of paper since I started here almost 10 years ago "
Tiffany Mahan Custom Sales Manager

Touya - this is my thickness chart, I don't update it much anymore but my thinnest deck is all the way at the bottom

http://magicorthodoxy.weebly.com/magic-reviews/card-thickness-how-will-these-cards-feel


Thank you for your reply!
I have already seen the list of thickness survey.
Why haven't you measured the thickness for a long time?

Can I check the thickness of the Hollingwords playing cards?

What is the most thin deck you have ever felt?
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2019, 09:08:02 AM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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"What is the most thin deck you have ever felt?"

The one at the bottom of my list
More Magic and Deck Reviews https://www.youtube.com/magicorthodoxy
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2019, 09:25:11 AM »
 

touya

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"What is the most thin deck you have ever felt?"

The one at the bottom of my list

I see.
I would like to get it if I have a chance.

Thank you!
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2019, 05:19:51 AM »
 

touya

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Hello!
I got two kinds of decks that people in the forum taught me.

I also prepared a micrometer and digital vernier calipers to match it.
The micrometer measurement is a point measurement, so we found that it damages the Playing Cards.
Therefore, it is measured by digital vernier caliper.

I will post the result after the measurement.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2019, 05:24:15 AM »
 

touya

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hollingworth burgundy,auto cycle
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2019, 05:22:20 AM »
 

touya

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I will report that the thickness investigation has advanced to some extent.

I don't know if there is a demand for this topic, but X- <
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2019, 05:31:01 AM »
 

touya

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About 'auto cycle No. 1'

The thickness was greatly different from Mr.Magic _ Orthodox's deck due to the lot difference.
Mr.Magic _ Orthodox's deck was made in 2016, and mine was made in 2018.

Please refer to the survey results for the thickness.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2019, 05:36:35 AM »
 

touya

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※There are numerical variations due to individual differences in deck and lot differences.
 
us marine corps              :12.50mm~13.10mm
VIRGINIASLIMS           :12.85mm~13.15mm
Showboat Casino        :12.85mm~13.10mm
-------------------------12mm range--------------------------
Cincinnati Reds(1993)   :13.00mm~13.05mm
MARLBORO TEXAN 45  :13.25mm~13.35mm
old STUD(※)                :13.25mm~14.85mm
Winston Motor 20th(N) :13.35mm~13.40mm
Izzy Atlanta(U)       :13.35mm~13.45mm
American airlines(W)  :13.45mm~13.50mm
absolut(※)                       :13.45mm
CLUBCASINO            :13.50mm~13.70mm
Spain StreamLine(B)      :13.65mm~13.70mm
elm deck(※)       :13.75mm
GENOVESE                :13.80mm~13.85mm
ARRCOstreamline red    :13.85mm~13.90mm
Budweiser                  :13.90mm~13.95mm
fire stone (1972)              :13.95mm~14.00mm
BICYCLE JUMBO INDEX :13.95mm~14.00mm
congress606 1914(T)     :13.95mm~14.00mm
MJ Moriarty1916             :13.95mm~14.00mm
skoal bandit(M)             :14.00mm~14.10mm
New fan back(F)           :14.05mm~14.10mm
supreme line  (blue)     :14.05mm~14.15mm
Elite edition          :14.05mm~14.15mm
hollingworth burgundy   :14.05mm~14.15mm
ARRCOstreamline blue  :14.10mm~14.20mm
PLAYBOY bicycle(1973) :14.15mm~14.20mm
blue ribbon red(E)(1943):14.15mm~14.20mm
cardistry-con2019          :14.15mm~14.25mm
ANYONE MIRROR           :14.15mm~14.30mm
SPHINX FORTUNE(T)    :14.20mm~14.25mm
my turn HOTELCASINO :14.25mm~14.30mm
fontaine carrot v3        :14.25mm~14.30mm
gemini casino (green)    :14.25mm~14.35mm
ramayana(blue)               :14.30mm~14.40mm
Ace Fulton’s pink             :14.30mm~14.40mm
Great Mogul(H)            :14.40mm~14.45mm
CARAVAN blue(U)           :14.45mm~14.50mm
SUMMER NOC orange   :14.45mm~14.50mm
Royal Order of jesters    :14.45mm~14.50mm
Bee Erdnase V1        :14.45mm~14.50mm
GoldenNugget(1974)     :14.50mm~14.55mm
Magic Castle(IPCC)        :14.50mm~14.55mm
Potsunen ICHIMATSU   :14.50mm~14.55mm
bicycle second(1993)    :14.55mm~14.60mm
TONY's PIZZA                  :14.55mm~14.60mm
blue ribbon(kickstarter) :14.70mm~14.75mm
DUNES CASINO red    :14.75mm~14.80mm
Hornet(2012)                   :14.75mm~14.80mm
Broadway Castle Tahoe:14.80mm~14.85mm
HOYLE red(Y)(KY)       :14.80mm~14.90mm
friars club red(S)    :14.85mm
LondonOlympic2012      :14.90mm~14.95mm
Gold standard red           :14.90mm~15.05mm
bicycle2015         :14.90mm~15.20mm
B'z                                :14.95mm~15.00mm
YOUR Basic                      :14.95mm~15.00mm
Bee Erdnase V2               :14.95mm~15.00mm
Emerald CASINO             :15.00mm~15.05mm
Gold standard blue      :15.05mm~15.10mm
SENSORED bicycle         :15.00mm~15.05mm
HOYLE blue(L)(OHIO)     :15.05mm~15.10mm
AUTO CYCLE(green)      :15.05mm
SUPER NOC No,1     :15.10mm~15.15mm
Madison Rounders         :15.10mm
AUTO CYCLE(violet)       :15.16mm
be@rbrick(2011)          :15.20mm~15.25mm
FRAGMENT blue             :15.20mm~15.25mm
SQUEEZERS Bulldog      :15.25mm~15.30mm
Fate Chip       :15.30mm~15.35mm
CHARAN-PO- RANTAN  :15.45mm~15.55mm
Bud Light1999(D)            :15.50mm~15.55mm
S.W.E           :15.50mm~15.60mm
Bicycle Lovely Bear  :15.60mm~15.65mm
ARISTOCRAT red            :15.65mm~15.70mm
※=reference value
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 08:47:09 AM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2019, 08:44:26 AM »
 

touya

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The hollingworth burgundy DECK I got was not that thin in thickness.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2019, 09:45:20 AM »
 

touya

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edition
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 09:53:54 AM by touya »
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2019, 09:50:18 AM »
 

touya

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Summary of 'USPCC Playing Cards Thickness Survey'.

In the past, countless Playing Cards have been built with varying thicknesses, but here's what I know:.


●Small order decks such as advertising decks, novelty decks, custom decks, and commemorative decks that are produced only during the year have little lot difference.


●However, the small-order deck described above is shipped as good even in second quality because the number of production is limited.
There are unevenness in quality such as printing misalignment, roughness of cutting, foreign matter contamination, finish unevenness, and thickness unevenness.


●Brands that have been produced for a long period of time vary greatly in quality and thickness because of differences in quality caused by different lots every year.


●Color variations such as red and blue vary slightly from lot to lot even in the same period of production.


●Decks produced that year are basically of the same thickness and quality as long as they are in the same inventory.


●Since the 'number' in the code on the ace of spades indicates the production line, the quality other than design is approximately the same if the number is the same. (However, special custom decks are excluded.)


●Case Thickness
Made by OHIO → Basically made to match the thickness of the deck.
Made in KY → Basically common dimensions. In other words, when the DECK is thin, it is concave, and when it is thick, it is swollen.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2019, 05:40:03 PM »
 

touya

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'Easy way to find thin Playing Cards'

I used to measure 52 decks by opening the case.

However, it costs a lot because you have to open the expensive deck.

So we decided to measure 'For each unopened case'.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2019, 05:40:59 PM »
 

touya

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The USPCC Playing Cards I opened consisted of 52 basic and 1 to 4 up to a maximum of 56.

Except for the congress, the general Playing Cards case has a total thickness of around 0.7mm.

Think of the thickness of one card as 0.3 mm as a reference. A maximum of 4 jokers or guarantee cards is about 1.2 mm.

The average is approximately 0.9 mm.

In other words, the value obtained by subtracting 'approximately 1.6mm' from the value obtained by measuring the whole box is equal to the thickness of 52 sheets. There is no problem with a slight error.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2019, 05:41:56 PM »
 

touya

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Even if I didn't know how many pieces were inside, there was no problem in determining whether it was thin or thick.

When I measured the whole case, if it is '14 mm Range', I can guess that the deck is very thin.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2019, 05:42:43 PM »
 

touya

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This is just a way to determine if a deck is thin, but the 'Cincinnati Reds' deck was discovered this way.

The measuring instrument is caliper.

The advantage of this method is that the cost is very low.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2019, 06:06:08 PM »
 

touya

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I took a lot of pictures to post, but it was stopped because there were so many.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2019, 06:48:27 PM »
 

touya

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『unopened deck  thickness survey reference table』

U.S Marine Corps                   :14.50mm
Jerry's Nugget red                  :15.75mm
Cincinnati Reds(1993)           :14.70mm
Winston Motor 20th(N)         :15.10mm
Los Olympic bicycle red        :14.95mm
Los Olympic bicycle blue      :15.05mm
Skoal Bandit(M)                      :15.30mm
ELM DECK red                        :15.05mm
ELM DECK blue                      :15.10mm
Uncle Sam bicycle red          :16.30mm
Magic symposium red          :16.05mm
Magic symposium blue        :16.30mm
Atlanta Olympic bicycle        :16.60mm
Las Vegas club blue              :15.35mm
Blue Ribbon1943                   :15,45mm
Blue Ribbon blue 70s            :15.55mm
Blue Ribbon red 90s              :15.50mm
Ramayana(blue)                 :15.75mm
Rider back red(80s)               :15.60mm
Rider back blue(80s)             :16.05mm
LEAGUE back red               :16.05mm
RACER back red              :16.35mm
TONY's PIZZA                  :16.10mm
Gold Standard blue               :16.90mm
Broadway Castle Tahoe       :16.30mm
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2019, 12:35:46 PM »
 

touya

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The content is different from the topic, but there is a minor deck in front of me, so I will add some information about USPC along with the pictures.
 

Re: About the thinnest deck made by USPC
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2019, 02:59:12 PM »
 

touya

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Timing of the start of the short flap operation.

We only know when long flaps were used until around 1992 when we ran out of stock.

There was no accurate information about when the short flaps were used, so there was a vague understanding, but it is thought to have been in circulation since 1990.

MARLBORO TEXAN 45 Playing Cards are short flaps made in 1990.

As I explained in this topic, unlike the long-run brand deck, small-order decks such as novelty decks and memorial decks are made only in that year.

I have never heard of short flap deck in the 80's.

I'll leave you with the fact that a short flap was made in 1990.