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Which Joker do you prefer for my illustrated, story-themed Kickstarter?

“Iron Giant” on Black
“Spotlit Iron Giant“ Art Deco
“Cephalopodic Scepter” on White w/ Gold
Question: Which Big or Flagship Joker Should I Go With?

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Question: Which Big or Flagship Joker Should I Go With?
« on: October 23, 2019, 03:45:37 PM »
 

ColinOfEmpress

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First, we have the same “Iron Giant-esque” character art as the Small Joker, but on black.

Second, a silhouetted and spotlit giant in art deco style.

Third, the Empress' cephalopodic scepter sits on white with gold accents.

The last is interesting because the new art varies from the Small Joker, and could be used in dueling or RP style card games for a new and different mechanic.

And one more thing. I'd love your feedback on the recently unlocked “Recon” Spook of Spades—as the story goes, a prototype which was stolen from Turing's own lab by a renegade disciple. Mass-produced and pressed into service for the Empress, these deviously automated urchins haunt dark corners, out of sight, in order to spy out and bust anti-monarchist sectarians who dare to threaten the Pax Imperii.



Thank you!

Colin,
https://www.empress.cards
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 04:38:04 AM by ColinOfEmpress »
 

Re: Question: Which Big or Flagship Joker Should I Go With?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2019, 12:35:22 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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As a general rule of thumb, it's considered a bad idea to include an image in your deck that might infringe on someone else's copyright  - especially if said copyright holder has much deeper pockets and far better lawyers than you do!  I've seen playing card projects literally killed AFTER the fundraising because of legal entanglements over use of copyrighted work.

In simple terms, unless you think you have more money and better lawyers than WARNER BROTHERS, I'd lose the "Iron Giant" designs...
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Re: Question: Which Big or Flagship Joker Should I Go With?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2019, 06:55:58 AM »
 

ColinOfEmpress

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I think you've misunderstood, I'm only using “Iron Giant” as a descriptor, i.e. a point of common reference. The actual design is not a copy, as you can see from the image below:



Let me know what you think!

—Colin
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 06:57:15 AM by ColinOfEmpress »
 

Re: Question: Which Big or Flagship Joker Should I Go With?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2019, 05:29:07 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I think you've misunderstood, I'm only using “Iron Giant” as a descriptor, i.e. a point of common reference. The actual design is not a copy, as you can see from the image below:



Let me know what you think!

—Colin

If it looks close enough to the "Iron Giant" and you call it "Iron Giant," WB might see it as Iron Giant!  You're even making it in the Art Deco style, much like the WB Iron Giant.  You could also run into issues if it resembles any of their pre-production art (especially if it was published) or other intermediate designs from before the finished version.  Call it "generic robot" and make it not resemble the Iron Giant (or any other big robot that's appeared in publicly-released media, unless that media is in the public domain), no sweat - but as it is, you could have problems.

You wouldn't argue that a cellphone has anything to do with "Star Wars," right?  That didn't stop Motorola from paying Lucasfilm licensing fees for the rights to use the name "Droid" for their line of smartphones.  One could have easily argued in court that it was a shortened form of the word "android," a word that predates the first-released Star Wars film by about fifty years.  But they just didn't want the hassles of a potential lawsuit against them by a wealthy company - and they're Motorola, not some guy sitting in front of his computer with a drawing tablet in his lap.

Even if you were 100% legally in the right on this, would you have the resources to defend against a WB lawsuit?  Better not to invite one in the first place.  I'm only saying this because no one wants that headache.

Look around on this forum and on Kickstarter for information about a really cool (killed) deck design called "Bicycle Army Men."  It's a very sad story.  That deck's creator got all the way through KS, was successful meeting his goal with money to spare, spent a portion of his "profits" to pay for his wife's student loans - then got knocked on his ass by a lawsuit from the company that owns the rights to the toy "Army Men."  Turns out they're not simply some cheap, generic plastic toy churned out by the bazillions in some Far East nation, but an actual piece of intellectual property owned by a US company.

The designer did the honorable thing in that he worked his ass off repaying his backers, but the money he spent on that and on lawyers trying to appease the company suing him must have been punishing, because he vanished from this forum, never made another deck, and the company he co-founded, Circle City Card Co., sold their IP to Gambler's Warehouse and disbanded.  It's why GW reprinted the Bicycle Americana deck in green - they bought the rights to the art from CCCC, specifically from the Bicycle Army Men artist's partner (who had problems of his own with KS reward fulfillment on another deck).  The Bicycle Army Men deck never saw the light of day, and never will.

You need to be as completely clear about your intellectual property as you can.  If you make something completely original and your own, great.  If you base your work on something you already own, great.  If you base it on something that's clearly in the public domain, great.  If you make something that another company might argue is theirs, especially if that company has much deeper pockets than you, you're really taking a chance.  Even if you're completely in the right, even if their argument could be viewed by a judge as specious or without merit, you probably won't have enough resources to see that judge and have your day in court before you run out of cash, not to mention the emotional toll it would take.  It sucks, but being in the right alone isn't always enough.  All that, over a single joker...
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Re: Question: Which Big or Flagship Joker Should I Go With?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2019, 04:37:13 AM »
 

ColinOfEmpress

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Ok I think I see what's going on. Unlike Motorola, I'm not actually using the name Iron Giant in the deck of cards, and the art is quite different if you look closely. Maybe I can just change the way I described it in this post?

—Colin
 

Re: Question: Which Big or Flagship Joker Should I Go With?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2019, 03:12:45 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Ok I think I see what's going on. Unlike Motorola, I'm not actually using the name Iron Giant in the deck of cards, and the art is quite different if you look closely. Maybe I can just change the way I described it in this post?

—Colin

It's not just a matter of what you call it here.  It's a matter of this: if Warner Brothers sued you because they thought your art looked too much like theirs, would a jury agree - and more importantly, would you have the money to pay for a lawyer to even make it that far before going broke?  In fact, leave out the jury part - it's really more about whether Warner Brothers thinks your art is too close to theirs, because you likely can't afford to defend your art in court.  Corporate legal departments are always looking for a reason to justify their existence to their corporate masters, and defending IP against infringement is one good way they like to do it.  If you go forward with that art, call it whatever you want to call it - just pray they don't notice, don't think it looks like their work or just plain don't care, because if they do, you're looking at a major headache, defending against a lawsuit brought against you by a company with much deeper pockets than yours.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/