USPCC CODE 1898"A"

[touya]

Thank you for sharing your research.

hi,Chuqii

There is not much I alone can do.
I think the industry of researching Playing Cards is fragile.
I believe that we should all complement our history before our current generation ends.
If we do not do so, we may not be around for the next generation.

I will share with you all what I can.

*Supplemental Explanation

I forgot to write this here.
I'm not very good at explaining things.

There is one more important point.

That is that the CODE 'A' found in the standard deck is listed on the joker as far as I know.

The main reason I focused on the Fireside Game Company is to find out when 'when CODE'A was printed on the Ace of Spades' started.

It is possible that the Ace of Spades in the standard deck may have been printed on the joker because of the design elegance of the design.

If that is correct, it may be really hard to find CODE 'A' in the 1898 standard deck.

Or it may not exist.

With this in mind, I began this research.

[NCC1888]

You might find this story I did about Fireside helpful.   https://pcconnections.weebly.com/mr-wilson-and-fireside-games.html

[touya]

You might find this story I did about Fireside helpful.   https://pcconnections.weebly.com/mr-wilson-and-fireside-games.html

Hi,NCC1888

Thank you for sharing this valuable and wonderful info!

I check the USPCC against the economic history of the US when researching it.
I believe the Long Depression of the late 1800's is the reason why so many Playing Cards companies merged, as mentioned in the article.

We believe that during the long, long recession, laws were changed in each state, and all companies struggled to survive in search of better conditions.

The USPCC has a history of acquiring many Playing Cards companies, but if anything, it may have included the purpose of retaining each company.

[torcams]

Hello Touya,

I have every reason to believe you are correct with date code "A" beginning in 1898.  I was going to suggest talking to Joseph Pierson, but it appears your research already made its way to him as referenced by a recent instagram post.  I do not believe I have any decks with an "A" code, but I have quite a few Jokers with "B" from 1899.

[touya]

Hello Touya,

I have every reason to believe you are correct with date code "A" beginning in 1898.  I was going to suggest talking to Joseph Pierson, but it appears your research already made its way to him as referenced by a recent instagram post.  I do not believe I have any decks with an "A" code, but I have quite a few Jokers with "B" from 1899.

Hi,torcams

Thank you for showing us this wonderful pictorial document!

Joseph Pierson is my friend on Instagram.
In making this discovery, for now, I have only told three great experts.

@pip_nosher
Joseph Pierson

@The Congress Guy
Kevan Seaney

@jason_mckinstry

Of these, Joseph was the one who responded.

I will put the latest version of the code list on this page as well.
It is written in a font commonly used in the U.S. so that it is easy to read for people around the world.

[touya]

Hello Touya,

I have every reason to believe you are correct with date code "A" beginning in 1898.  I was going to suggest talking to Joseph Pierson, but it appears your research already made its way to him as referenced by a recent instagram post.  I do not believe I have any decks with an "A" code, but I have quite a few Jokers with "B" from 1899.

I believe that deck was made in 1899, judging by the two-digit number on the right side.

The reason there was no code on the ace of spades until the early 1900's was because it was printed on the joker.

As far as I can tell, the first deck with the code 'A' printed on the Ace of Spades was
'No,1117 Game of Artists Playing Cards' was the first.

When collecting antique decks, I was not 100% sure about the code identification because the joker is not often used in everyday games and may have been discarded or appropriated from another deck.

I also utilize the numbers on the right side of the USPCC CODE when I cross-reference the USPCC CODE.

I have also been researching the numbers on the right side of the USPCC CODE, and am now systematizing it a bit.

However, since the 'numbers on the right' are related to the factory production line, they have different meanings depending on the year, so I have to explain them in sequence with the history of the United States.

I will explain if there is a response.

[touya]

hi,
Long time no see. How are you?

I have just finished updating the USPCC DATE CODE for the latest version of 2023.

The code for 2023 is,
The confirmation was made in the "Bicycle Disney Princess Playing Cards".

If you have any problems please contact me.

Cheers!

[Don Boyer]

You might find this story I did about Fireside helpful.   https://pcconnections.weebly.com/mr-wilson-and-fireside-games.html

This link is dead, due to your update of the article.


https://pcconnections.weebly.com/mr-wilson-and-fireside-games---updated-aug-2022.html


Touya, I'm not entirely convinced about the use of the letter codes on the jokers.  I was told by none other than Tom Dawson himself that there were numerical and alphanumerical codes in place on the joker for many decks, but that no strict correspondence could be established between those codes and the date of manufacture - sometimes even the code on the Ace of Spades wasn't created in accordance with the established pattern.


Lee Asher has stated on his website, in his article on dating USPC decks, that the letter codes on Aces of Spades didn't come into existence until 1904 - and other articles I've read corroborate this.


https://www.leeasher.com/blog/how-to-date-a-deck-of-playing-cards.php


As far as the continued use of the letter codes - the new numerical system makes dating a deck more of a science than an art, allowing you to know the exact week of production, but with the codes only being used on decks produced by USPC rather than produced by a third party and printed by USPC, it's of limited usefulness - though many if not most late-model decks do also bear copyright information, often found on the bottom of the tuck box.

[Chuqii]

I think there are enough examples out there now to show that letter code dating began before 1904.  I use Joseph Pierson?s updated chart found here:  https://bicyclecards.org/uspcc-dating-code/

[touya]

You might find this story I did about Fireside helpful.   https://pcconnections.weebly.com/mr-wilson-and-fireside-games.html

This link is dead, due to your update of the article.


https://pcconnections.weebly.com/mr-wilson-and-fireside-games---updated-aug-2022.html


Touya, I'm not entirely convinced about the use of the letter codes on the jokers.  I was told by none other than Tom Dawson himself that there were numerical and alphanumerical codes in place on the joker for many decks, but that no strict correspondence could be established between those codes and the date of manufacture - sometimes even the code on the Ace of Spades wasn't created in accordance with the established pattern.


Lee Asher has stated on his website, in his article on dating USPC decks, that the letter codes on Aces of Spades didn't come into existence until 1904 - and other articles I've read corroborate this.


https://www.leeasher.com/blog/how-to-date-a-deck-of-playing-cards.php


As far as the continued use of the letter codes - the new numerical system makes dating a deck more of a science than an art, allowing you to know the exact week of production, but with the codes only being used on decks produced by USPC rather than produced by a third party and printed by USPC, it's of limited usefulness - though many if not most late-model decks do also bear copyright information, often found on the bottom of the tuck box.

Are you or Lee really promoting that theory after confirming the actual deck?

[touya]

What is this?

Can't you even confirm this year's specifications?

Did you not just open your computer, start up Excel, and copy and paste?

Don't you think that is too silly?

https://bicyclecards.com/shop/disney-princess-inspired-playing-cards-by-bicycle-pink

[touya]

You all realize how bewildered and passionless users around the world are who believe the information you send out?

Don, what you are trying to tell me is that you don't trust anything other than studies published by 'recognized pioneers' such as Dawson and Lee, right?

You have 'refuted' my research but have never 'disproved' it.

Please present a clear physical rebuttal by all 52plusjoker. It would be more constructive and advance the research.

[touya]

I think there are enough examples out there now to show that letter code dating began before 1904.  I use Joseph Pierson?s updated chart found here:  https://bicyclecards.org/uspcc-dating-code/

hi,Chuqii

Thanks for agreeing with me.
Thank you very much.

[Don Boyer]

I think there are enough examples out there now to show that letter code dating began before 1904.  I use Joseph Pierson?s updated chart found here:  https://bicyclecards.org/uspcc-dating-code/

hi,Chuqii

Thanks for agreeing with me.
Thank you very much.

Gentlemen, I'm simply "the devil's advocate" here.  It's entirely possible that your information is correct and that the date codes extend back as far as 1898.  But it's also possible that the people I've heard from, long-time and heavily experienced collectors, that the date codes don't go that far back and are not always 100% accurate as to year of manufacture.  Considering the years of experience accumulated between Lee and Tom, I'd be leaning in their direction, short of hard physical proof.  Doesn't mean I'm calling you out as absolutely wrong - just that the odds aren't in your favor, though you could still be right.  I'm not immune to new ideas and concepts that refute what I've known before, but I do try to consider the sources of both old and new ideas and concepts to determine which of them would be more likely to be correct.


So, truce, fellows? 

[touya]

I'm not angry.

Don has a point in denying it, and he is not refusing to be denied.
The Hochman Encyclopedia of American Playing Cards, compiled by Tom and Judy Dawson, has become a guide for all USPCC deck users.

 That hasn't changed even today.

However, the Internet was not yet that widespread at that time, and the scale has changed dramatically between individual statistical research and today's ability to connect with users around the world.

The global spread of the Internet makes it easy to uncover the truth behind superstitions and industry rumors.

The magic industry is still very secretive, and very few people are willing to voluntarily disseminate correct information.


I have seen many magicians, cardists, and deck users, and most of them said that they were not interested in anything other than their own interests.
Even if users were interested in the correct information and history of the industry, only a minority of users took action to find out on their own.

Everyone gets excited when they open a USPCC deck. Many people check the quality first. When we opened a deck and saw that it was of high quality, we all wondered, 'When was this made? ? you might think.
However, the USPCC DATE CODE list is full of errors.
Everyone's interest and curiosity towards the deck will eventually shift elsewhere, and eventually they will get bored with it. This is the current situation.

Past indicators are great, but even if you cling to them, you will never see the truth.

If we don't create the right indicators for the young generation, now in their teens and 20s, isn't decline just around the corner?

[touya]

In the past I have approached many seniors to research the history of the USPCC. However, most of them ignored me.
And there was no one in Japan who could answer my questions well. So I decided to proceed alone.

Originally, considering the connections, vast experience, knowledge, environment, languages, and collections of all 52plus jokers, statistics would be gathered quickly.

The only thing I can do is 'report my findings to the deck experts.

And the truth is always in the deck.
It just hasn't been revealed in the past, and since the deck exists, it is the truth.


A deck made by Fireside Game Company has something like a code printed on it, but if it's not a code, what do you think it is?

It only looks like USPCC DATE CODE to me.

[touya]

Tom and Judy Dawson's idea that ``it is not possible to determine the exact year of manufacture with JOKER alone'' is correct. This is because the 52-card deck and accompanying cards may have been created on different days.

That's why I'm explaining it with a deck made by Fireside Game Company so that no one can deny it.

Please check this thread again until you understand. I can't explain it any more clearly than this. sorry.

[touya]

I think there are enough examples out there now to show that letter code dating began before 1904.  I use Joseph Pierson?s updated chart found here:  https://bicyclecards.org/uspcc-dating-code/

I'd like to change the subject a bit,
I remember chuqii was a KEM collector, does KEM Deck have a USPCC CODE?

[NCC1888]

Let me add this to the conversation. On July 2, 1894, the United States Printing Company became The United States Playing Card Company. Why did they wait 4 years to start date coding? Nothing I could find in their history points to an event to start coding their cards. Production didn't change, their new factory in Norwood would not be in production until 1901. Why the change?  It seems like the coding would have started after the name change. Thoughts?

[touya]

Let me add this to the conversation. On July 2, 1894, the United States Printing Company became The United States Playing Card Company. Why did they wait 4 years to start date coding? Nothing I could find in their history points to an event to start coding their cards. Production didn't change, their new factory in Norwood would not be in production until 1901. Why the change?  It seems like the coding would have started after the name change. Thoughts?

hi,NCC1888



My opinion is that it's because the number of production has increased.

USPCC DATE CODE is printed with alphabets and numbers. Everyone ignores the numbers, but experts must have noticed that the numbers increase in proportion to the number of products produced.

The letters represent the year of production, and the numbers represent the paper number.

A paper number is a number assigned to the paper roll that is the raw material for Playing Cards, and is a quality control number assigned to avoid confusion at the production site.

In the 1800s, the quality of paper used as raw materials varied, and it was a matter of luck whether you received high-quality paper or low-quality paper. This problem was a problem faced by all manufacturers, not just USPCC. Therefore, high-quality paper was used for high-quality decks, and low-quality paper was sold as cheap decks such as Steamboat. Advertisements at the time listed various stock names and finish names, but these were just slogans to promote quality.


Around the end of the 1800s, when production numbers were low, it was deemed sufficient to use only a copyright notice and date, but as the variety of decks became vast, problems such as material errors increased at production sites, making it necessary to strengthen production control.

In addition, in the 1890s, there was fierce competition among manufacturers for copyrights and consolidation such as corporate acquisitions, and the rampant use of copied products was also a problem due to the recession caused by the economic depression.

I believe that the USPCC DATE CODE was introduced on a trial basis to solve this problem.

At the time, there were very few ways to prove that a product was a company's own product.
Therefore, I assume that the introduction of this system was done behind the scenes.

For example.
If there was a code D89, it would mean 'a deck made in 1901 from paper rolls of paper No. 89'.
(By the way, this is different from a lot.)

Later, after 1900, manufacturers under the USPCC voluntarily introduced the USPCC DATE CODE.
However, this caused the DATE CODE to enter a period of chaos from 1910 to around 1930.

If the Playing Cards market size in the US had not expanded, there might not have been a USPCC DATE CODE.

These are my opinions.

[touya]

Let me add this to the conversation. On July 2, 1894, the United States Printing Company became The United States Playing Card Company. Why did they wait 4 years to start date coding? Nothing I could find in their history points to an event to start coding their cards. Production didn't change, their new factory in Norwood would not be in production until 1901. Why the change?  It seems like the coding would have started after the name change. Thoughts?

Article on the Great Depression from 1893.
https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1893%E5%B9%B4%E6%81%90%E6%85%8C


In the article, the economy is slowly beginning to recover from 1897. The article states.

I assume that at that time, the company was trying its best to maintain its existence, such as cash flow.

[touya]

Let me explain in more detail.
A lot is a unit of "a group of products manufactured continuously under the same conditions.

Therefore, even if the paper number changes, the lot is the same if it is continuously manufactured.

Let us take an example as an image,

Suppose 50,000 sheets of BICYCLE RIDER BACK were produced in 1990 and the USPCC CODE was N1416, N1417, N1418, N1419, N1420, N1421, N1424, N1426, N1427, N1431.
Even if additional rolls of paper are replenished, if the paper rolls are produced continuously under the same conditions, then 50,000 pieces constitute one lot.

The reason why paper numbers are not sequentially numbered is a matter of convenience at the time at the mills, and has no special meaning because paper rolls are reserved for other products and cannot be used.

The size, length, and paper number of paper rolls change from year to year, but there is a clear trend.

[touya]

I am sure you are all aware that the USPCC CODE exhibits some familiar characteristics depending on its age.

USPCC CODEs from the late 1890s to around 1900 have paper numbers with one to three digits.
However, circa 1904 paper numbers are all one to two digits. This means that the old mills had a large inventory of paper rolls because they could only use small paper rolls to fit their equipment.
At the Norwood mill after 1904, the paper rolls themselves, which were used as material, became larger due to the larger production equipment.
It is thought that the paper numbers became smaller because of the increased production capacity at a time.

It is statistically shown that this paper number is based on the production capacity of each manufacturer.

For example, in the 1910s and 1920s, USPCC-affiliated brands had four-digit paper numbers, but most of the RUSSELL affiliated brands had one to three digits. We speculate that this was because the scale of production was small, so a three-digit paper number was the limit.

[touya]

I have attached an image contributed by Rod Starling, borrowed from WPC. Although the USPCC CODE has become more complex around this time, this is actually the original quality control number.
This CODE format, often seen in Congress brands, represents "month-year-paper number". Of course, there are exceptions and irregularities.

As a reminder, the four-digit paper number includes the category number.

The meaning of the paper number changes somewhat with the age of the paper number, but the essence remains the same today.

Although there is no confirmation yet, it is possible that the original draft of this USPCC CODE came from a technical manager of a manufacturer affiliated with NYCC or NCC.
Thoughts?