Jerry's nugget playing cards !!!

[Frost]

are they going to reprint more of the Jerry's nugget playing cards ??

[Lushbob]

I doubt it. And if they did, they wouldn't be nearly as good quality - the chemicals used in the finish are illegal now, if I remember correctly. Please, do correct me if I'm wrong.

[AceGambit]

You are correct lushbob.  Not only are the chemicals illegal to use, to my knowledge, the stock as well is unavailable.  The cards were printed in the 70's by the casino.  The reason they sat in a warehouse and then were sold in the gift shop instead of finding their way onto the tables is because the casino HATED the cards.  They thought they were too easy to mark.  This being the case, I doubt the casino would go out of their way to make any MORE cards that they didn't like.  At the price of playing cards these days and the quantities casinos would print in, that's a $50,000 - $100,000 mistake you really don't want to make (especially if you've already made it 40 years ago).

[kensei777]

Illegal? Why what were they made of?

[Lushbob]

I'm pretty sure it was made illegal because the chemical used was damaging to the environment.

[Evan]

You can always buy a reprint one. They not be nearly as good quality but some reprints handle really nicely!

[Don Boyer]

It's not just that the chemicals are no longer made, but the precise formula is actually lost.  On top of that, the manufacturing processes used to make the original Jerry's Nugget decks also no longer exist, and would be phenomenally expensive to bring back - the cards were actually dipped into the finish after cutting, something that's unheard of today.  A JN card actually has one side with a linen textured surface, the other side totally smooth - not a common combination in card stock, though not impossible to make.


And speaking of the stock, that doesn't exist any more either - most stocks today are made not from pure wood but mostly from composite wood materials (like cheap pressboard) as a result of recycling.  As time goes on and the recycled content of paper increases, the quality of the stock will decrease.  1970s stock is a totally different thing from 2012 stock.  In fact, today's stock isn't even completely consistent within a single print run - it's in the nature of the paper, nothing the USPC can do about it since they don't make their own paper.


Any attempt to recreate a JN deck would feel absolutely nothing like a JN deck.  But there's plenty of forgeries out there!  Try them!

[kensei777]

I did. A friend of mine actually bought a fake one knowingly just to check the difference. It was really crappy. They definitely look the same but the feel, is on a whole new level DOWN. Since it seems to be made of cardboard, it absorbs moisture far too fast hence the cards warp easily and tend to stick together and trust me, when you live in a tropical climate, the humidity in the air is like hell to these suckers.

[Don Boyer]

There's rumors of some nearly decent copies, particularly the ones in oddball colors.  But they aren't anything like real Jerry's.

[phantom1412]

I never touched the real Jerry's, all I know is that the fake one i have is wrose than the standard bicycle. They can be fanned but never expect a perfect fan.

Also, there are varietions of the fake. Some of them are plastic, some are really bad. I got the okay quality decks.

[sprouts1115]

http://hwcdn.net/u7n2x8t6/cds/JerrysNugget/jerrys_nugget_card_care_guide.pdf



Which side is the Embossed side?  Front or Back of card?  I think there was a discussion about this, but I can't find it. 

[Don Boyer]

Which side is the Embossed side?  Front or Back of card?  I think there was a discussion about this, but I can't find it.

You just didn't look hard enough.  I found it and merged topics, moving both to A Cellar of Fine Vintages.

I don't know which side is embossed, but if forced to guess, I'd say the front.  Embossing works like the dimples in a golf ball, providing pockets of air for a card to glide upon as it skims a hard surface.  Most cards in most games are dealt face down to the players, so the face would be the side that needed it most.  Logically speaking, it makes the most sense.

[sprouts1115]

@Don - You're right.  It makes sense you would want the Embossed on the fronts.  Now this has become a miscellaneous piece of history I need to know.  I guess I'm in the market for a worn flawed deck of Jerry's Nugget.  Hell, it can have missing cards for all I care.  All I need is 2.  One to see the Embossing and the other card to get a hint of the unique finish between the cards.

Another question: Was it common practice to put the date on the glued part of the tuck from the USPCC during the 60's or 70's? I know recently ppl have been putting text and symbols in the glued part of the tuck box to make the deck seem more mysterious, but It sorta makes no sense to put the date of manufacture where a person will never see it.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_htHzYWtAg

[Don Boyer]

@Don - You're right.  It makes sense you would want the Embossed on the fronts.  Now this has become a miscellaneous piece of history I need to know.  I guess I'm in the market for a worn flawed deck of Jerry's Nugget.  Hell, it can have missing cards for all I care.  All I need is 2.  One to see the Embossing and the other card to get a hint of the unique finish between the cards.

Another question: Was it common practice to put the date on the glued part of the tuck from the USPCC during the 60's or 70's? I know recently ppl have been putting text and symbols in the glued part of the tuck box to make the deck seem more mysterious, but It sorta makes no sense to put the date of manufacture where a person will never see it.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_htHzYWtAg

The card was finished using a process that's no longer available.  The coating was applied using cloth rollers - the texturing in the cloth is what created the textured surface of an "embossed" card.  (It's in quotes because technically it was not embossed - real embossing takes place in the paper, to the best of my knowledge.)

I'm guessing that it was a common-enough practice, at least on decks bound for a casino.

You have to understand: from the point of view of both USPC and Jerry's Nugget Casino back in 1970, this was just another printing job, period.  Nothing exceptional.  The processes used to make these cards (and the tuck box they came in) were in common use at the time.  Lots of decks of the era had similar if not identical properties.

It's just that, like most consumables, decks back then got used, abused and destroyed, ending up in trash bins all over the country (very little recycling was being done back then compared to now).  Jerry's Nugget decks sat lying around in storage for many years, which is why so many still exist.  If this was a deck that was never touched by a magician, they'd be trading for little more than any other casino souvenir deck, perhaps on par with the Japanese Friars Club decks.  That, plus speculation by collectors buying solely for the cash value, are what makes it a uniquely expensive deck.

[Robert Adams]

Hey, this is fascinating!

Sorry for bringing up old news but I'd like to hear more about this. I've never handled JNs and had no idea that they were embossed on one side.

Lee Asher has this video which clearly shows the extremely neat embossing on the BACK of the card.
 
http://www.leeasher.com/playground/articles/playing_cards_under_the_microscope.html

But what's this about a cotton roller 'painting on embossment' or something? I'm not sure what the standard embossing process is. I assumed it required a textured metal roller. I can't make sense of a fabric cotton roller unless it only textured the varnish rather than the card itself, as is usually the case. Was one side normal linen finish and one side cotton roller perhaps?

If anyone can clear up this surely it is Lee!

On the point of attempting a faithful reproduction, I imagine the main benefit of individually dip coating is to seal the edges of the cards which is achieved by Fournier for Lee Asher's 605's.

Please correct me if I am wrong, I'm not at all sure about this...I believe that USPC texture their card after varnishing (before cutting!), whereas Fournier, Cartamundi and many others varnish already textured card. Perhaps a significant contribution to the instant perfect fans of USPC produced decks?

I think that if someone was willing to pay, a one sided linen finish individually coated deck could be done. It might take the work of two manufacturers and probably cost a fortune for little benefit. It could be fun though!

[Don Boyer]

Hey, this is fascinating!

Sorry for bringing up old news but I'd like to hear more about this. I've never handled JNs and had no idea that they were embossed on one side.

Lee Asher has this video which clearly shows the extremely neat embossing on the BACK of the card.
 
http://www.leeasher.com/playground/articles/playing_cards_under_the_microscope.html

But what's this about a cotton roller 'painting on embossment' or something? I'm not sure what the standard embossing process is. I assumed it required a textured metal roller. I can't make sense of a fabric cotton roller unless it only textured the varnish rather than the card itself, as is usually the case. Was one side normal linen finish and one side cotton roller perhaps?

If anyone can clear up this surely it is Lee!

On the point of attempting a faithful reproduction, I imagine the main benefit of individually dip coating is to seal the edges of the cards which is achieved by Fournier for Lee Asher's 605's.

Please correct me if I am wrong, I'm not at all sure about this...I believe that USPC texture their card after varnishing (before cutting!), whereas Fournier, Cartamundi and many others varnish already textured card. Perhaps a significant contribution to the instant perfect fans of USPC produced decks?

I think that if someone was willing to pay, a one sided linen finish individually coated deck could be done. It might take the work of two manufacturers and probably cost a fortune for little benefit. It could be fun though!

Vintage cards weren't embossed by pressing a steel roller into the paper.  The laminate applied to the card WAS the source of the embossing itself.  The various cloth rollers used created the various textures - in fact, some finish names still in use today (Cambric, Linen, Linoid, Satin) were named after the fabrics used to create the embossing, and there was actual differences in the embossing.  These days, they're all just "embossed" - the same regardless of the finish name, at least at USPC.

The embossing you see in cards now occurs before the coating is applied.  The steel rollers have little closely-spaced "bumps" that press the embossing right into the paper.  I think that technically means it's a debating process, rather than embossing, but I'm not a printer and keep forgetting which means pressed into the surface and which means raised above the surface.  I'm pretty sure the embossing occurs before even printing - that it happens when the pasteboard is created by applying glue between two layers of paper and pressing them together under pressure.  But I've also been told it occurs after printing.  Never have I been told it takes place after the lamination - always before.

It would be impossible to re-create Jerry's Nugget playing cards in the United States.  About six years ago, the Federal government enacted a law requiring playing card manufacturers to use more post-consumer recycled content in their paper as well as inks and laminates free of petroleum products.  There's been rumors that certain banned toxic chemicals were used in making JN cards - well, they're no more toxic than what was in use before the new law.  It was more about the manufacturing process no longer being in use.

I've always wondered how playing cards with single-side embossing would perform.  I've yet to see a single card company experiment with the concept - to my knowledge, it was abandoned about the same time that cloth rollers for lamination were replaced.

Why are USPC cards superior to manufacturers like Cartamundi?  I'm guessing that Cartamundi simply sources the cheapest materials it can find.  Fournier makes their cards differently - in some ways better, in some ways perhaps not.  They're sealed on the edges, making them washable if you're careful with them, but some don't like the slip for fanning and some cardistry moves, or at least on the Fournier 605s.  They make a big variety of cards and I can't speak for all of them because I've only seen a fraction of them.  I can say, interestingly enough, that the Bicycle Prestige decks are made by Fournier for USPC.  I like them a lot, while others claim nearly all the major plastic decks on the market are better.

[Mr.parangot]

I never handled a pair of JNs but how do they compare to the new EPCC company decks? I mean USPCC makes good decks, but the majority can't hold up to the consistent quality of EPCC or Fournier. And by the way, how do they fan if the finish is different on both sides?

[Don Boyer]

I never handled a pair of JNs but how do they compare to the new EPCC company decks? I mean USPCC makes good decks, but the majority can't hold up to the consistent quality of EPCC or Fournier. And by the way, how do they fan if the finish is different on both sides?

I've really no experience handling Jerry's Nuggets, but they have the reputation that they have in part because they handled very well and (at the time they were still at the casino's gift shop) were pretty inexpensive.

From what I can tell, the Jerry's were smooth on one side, dimpled on the other.  The dimples do something with air pressure, allowing a cushion of it to remain in place while it glides over a surface - exactly like a golf ball going further than a smooth ball of the same size when launched at the same rate of speed.  A theory of mine is that maybe the two "air-cushioned" surfaces against each other interfered with each other, like a plane flying through turbulence.  Making a smooth side and a dimpled side on each card would solve that issue very nicely, allowing for good glide between the cards.  I'm guessing that it was the faces that were dimpled, since cards are usually dealt face down rather than face up - that would make an air cushion with the surface of the table as the card passed from the dealer to the player.

But like I said, that's all just a theory.  And I can only speak for the cards I know, so I would only be guessing as to how Jerry's compare with modern manufactured decks.  I much prefer the quality of EPCC/LPCC decks over USPC, even with USPC's advancement of "Magic Finish/Performance Coating."

[sprouts1115]

It seems the backs have the dimples.

[Don Boyer]

Good, now we know.  Perhaps when the card-making method was created, it was thought that the felt of the table alone would be enough to keep the card afloat on a cushion of air.

[TheBadJoker]

I just opened a pack of Nugget cards. They are textured on both sides. What does that mean?

[Don Boyer]

I just opened a pack of Nugget cards. They are textured on both sides. What does that mean?

JERRY'S Nugget, or GOLDEN Nugget?

Depending on the deck, assuming it is indeed labeled as a Jerry's deck, it's possible that the deck might be a forgery, unless you know for certain that the source of the deck is reliable.  Early forgeries of Jerry's Nugget decks were terrible, on par with something you'd buy in a dollar store, I've been told.  More recent forgeries, however, are actually of decent quality - something that would be passable to someone who's never handled JN cards before, but something that an experienced user might recognize.

Beyond that, ask Lee.  He's the resident expert on that deck.  Perhaps some close-up photos would help as well, close and sharp enough to show the cards' texture.

[HankMan]

More recent forgeries, however, are actually of decent quality - something that would be passable to someone who's never handled JN cards before, but something that an experienced user might recognize.

Recently I came across a seller selling Jerry's, and at that time I am not very familiar with Jerry's in any way.. I asked him about what colour is available and he told me there were 3 (Blue, Red and Black). 
Black I never heard of that colour on Jerry's before... so I suspected it to be a fake.
I bought 1 anyway just for my curiosity, and it only cost about AU$10.
And you are right Don about the quality, I have to say they have decent quality, I can't fan them right out of the box, but once the deck is broken in they are pretty good to handle. at least not like the $ shop playing cards.

[Don Boyer]

More recent forgeries, however, are actually of decent quality - something that would be passable to someone who's never handled JN cards before, but something that an experienced user might recognize.

Recently I came across a seller selling Jerry's, and at that time I am not very familiar with Jerry's in any way.. I asked him about what colour is available and he told me there were 3 (Blue, Red and Black). 
Black I never heard of that colour on Jerry's before... so I suspected it to be a fake.
I bought 1 anyway just for my curiosity, and it only cost about AU$10.
And you are right Don about the quality, I have to say they have decent quality, I can't fan them right out of the box, but once the deck is broken in they are pretty good to handle. at least not like the $ shop playing cards.

Black is not an original Jerry's Nugget deck color.  Forgers made it to attract the gullible and to try to circumvent eBay's restrictions on forgeries by calling it a replica.  None of those supposed replicas were made with permission of the casino or USPC, nor were they made at a USPC plant, despite labeling to the contrary..