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Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #250 on: March 09, 2012, 08:22:49 PM »
 

xZEROx

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It does look like the back design on Holiday back...
If it's something else Bicycle related that you're hinting at...I must be missing out. I know there's a few stars and flakes designs in those 82 designs, but none of them look exactly like that. Right...? @.@
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #251 on: March 09, 2012, 11:10:22 PM »
 

digipunk

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Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #252 on: March 09, 2012, 11:45:16 PM »
 

xZEROx

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Mmm I wouldn't know then. >.<
I never really got into anything else besides Bicycle. :P
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #253 on: March 10, 2012, 12:48:18 AM »
 

jmrock

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You want to see some other insanely cool Vintage Bee Backs... What a dream to own these decks...
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #254 on: March 10, 2012, 01:00:35 AM »
 

dmbaggs

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Those are pretty sweet!! Back #204 is awesome! I wish there were a few decks out now with that back. I would pick up a ton of those! I've never really looked into different bee backs
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Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #255 on: March 10, 2012, 01:11:19 AM »
 

xZEROx

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@jmrock,
Don't do this. I am NOT getting into anything else besides Bicycle. I'm spending enough on these. >.<
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #256 on: March 10, 2012, 01:47:55 AM »
 

jmrock

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Hahaha... Tell me you wouldn't buy a brick of those Clock Back Bee Decks immediately... Or at the top with the big Bees and the hives behind them... Just awesome...

However, I've never seen any vintage Bee decks for sale with these incredible backs... I got lucky a few months ago and bought direct from a collector the worm backs, but they were from the late 70s - 80s... Wonderful decks, but nothing like these... I'll post some crazy Tally Ho backs as well... Comin at ya like a stiff blow...

Yes, the mystery is solved... Our beloved Dragon Backs were originally Tally Ho Backs...
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #257 on: March 10, 2012, 01:56:03 AM »
 

digipunk

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@jmrock, the clock back is awesome and others are wonderful too. Are these insane cards yours?
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #258 on: March 10, 2012, 02:06:46 AM »
 

xZEROx

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I wouldn't be surprised but I don't think so. I believe I've seen some of those pictures elsewhere. Unless he posted those too. >.<
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #259 on: March 10, 2012, 02:08:14 AM »
 

jmrock

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I can only wish... They were off a Magic Magazine web page... I looked because I have it bookmarked and I knew your back was on it, but I didn't put two and two together for some reason... I love sometimes when searching for things, you seem to infiltrate a page of a subscription based service (which I believe this is)... These are definitely ten cards that would make me glad to take up single swap collecting...

Check it out...
http://www.magicmagazine.com/august10/card-backs.html

Also... Getting back on topic strong posting some pics of a recent acquisition... Late 1800s / Early 1900s NY Consolidated Squeezers - Elf with Gold Edges - Side Opening Box, which I think is awesome - Slightly smaller than a standard deck, but not quite miniature...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 02:37:17 AM by jmrock »
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #260 on: March 10, 2012, 03:09:04 AM »
 

dmbaggs

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Those Tally Hos are awesome! I know Don will love to see those! He seems to be a big fan of the Tallys. I really like the horse backs with the crown. These Vintage decks all look incredible. Thanks for sharing the pictures guys  :)
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Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #261 on: March 10, 2012, 03:15:07 AM »
 

xZEROx

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Interesting. The joker also says Best Bower. One of the earliest (if not THE earliest) jokers in Bicycle also says Best Bower.
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #262 on: March 10, 2012, 03:52:18 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Yes, Zero - the first Bicycle deck, the Old Fan Back, had a Best Bower joker.

All those backs were awesome.  And I knew there had to be something more to the mystery behind the Dragon Backs!  I like the one-color version so much more than the newer four-color versions used on Bikes.  It's just so clean and the artwork is easy to view and appreciate in all its detail.  In four colors, a lot of that gets muddied up.

So, when the hell are more people going to get the idea in their heads that yes, Tally Ho did come in more than two backs, and perhaps it is also due for a revival?!  I just wish USPC would stop treating it as a regional brand exclusive to NYC and magic retailers.  It's an AWESOME deck.

(And I also wish they'd fix the one-way mark on the Circle Backs!  They weren't always like that!)
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Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #263 on: March 10, 2012, 09:48:10 AM »
 

jmrock

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@Don... I agree... Although there is a place in my heart for Bicycle and it's what I mainly collect along with Bees... I would say that the Tally Ho has always been my favorite brand of card... I always enjoyed performing with them and loved the backs and especially the box...  It's funny that after getting into card collecting years later and obtaining vintage decks, the Tally Ho box is reminiscent of the decks of old...
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #264 on: March 10, 2012, 10:04:21 AM »
 

digipunk

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I would say that the Tally Ho has always been my favorite brand of card...

I forgive you for not owning the Bicycle War Series.
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #265 on: March 10, 2012, 02:05:45 PM »
 

jmrock

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Finally... Thank you Digi... I have been waiting for that forgiveness for a very long time... Now I can get back to collecting with a clear conscience...
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #266 on: March 11, 2012, 01:05:51 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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@Don... I agree... Although there is a place in my heart for Bicycle and it's what I mainly collect along with Bees... I would say that the Tally Ho has always been my favorite brand of card... I always enjoyed performing with them and loved the backs and especially the box...  It's funny that after getting into card collecting years later and obtaining vintage decks, the Tally Ho box is reminiscent of the decks of old...

It's remained a classic.  As far as I know, the box is entirely unchanged.  Again, I just wish it was a national brand.  There's sort of a vicious circle at play.

USPC pushes Bicycle as the inexpensive but reasonably good consumer brand, and Bee as the higher-end poker brand, popular in casinos around the country if not the world.  Aviator is still popular at airports because of the matched theme.  Maverick, one of their cheapest brands, has a strong following in the South and maybe even the Midwest, I'm not sure.  Streamline, the cheapest brand but better in quality than Maverick, is carried by the world's largest store chain, WalMart, for a buck a pack.  Congress is doing OK, sort of - they're still popular as a bridge-sized paper playing card brand, but there's a lot of competition from cheaply-made decks from overseas as well as from plastic brands like USPC's own Kem, plus Copag, Piatnik, etc.

In that broad mess, Tally Ho gets marginalized.  It's one of the original A. Dougherty designs, originally printed in New York City, and historically it may have been regional to the Northeast while still available elsewhere - it was Dai Vernon's favorite deck.  But without the national push that Bicycle and Bee get, plus the higher price tag (it's often more expensive than both Bee and Bicycle at the counter), that region's been shrinking.  As the region shrank, the national chain stores decided to simplify their supply chains by offering only brands with national appeal.  Because USPC doesn't push Tally Ho, it hasn't had that national appeal for a long time, and now the only place you can find Tally Ho outside of a specialty shop like a magic store is in New York City.  Not even the suburbs; just New York City.

On top of that, USPC stops carrying the traditional Tally Ho stock because of the relatively low sales of the Tally Ho brand and replaces it with a variant of Aristocrat.  It's a good stock, but I have to wonder if it's truly equal to the old stock.  I wouldn't know, since I haven't own an old-stock Tally probably since I was a kid, if ever.

The brand did see a resurgence with the flourishing community - it's by and large their most popular deck - but that community, just like magicians, are still just a small niche, not enough to boost the demand to nationally-worthy levels.  And as good as they are for magic, the vast majority of gaffed cards and decks are done in Bicycle Rider Back designs, with any new altered backs changing to the Bicycle Mandolin Backs.  The Mandolin Back is close enough to the Rider Back that most spectators wouldn't notice if you swapped a Mandolin Back gaff card into a Rider Back deck, or vice versa.

FYI, for anyone interested in a deal:

Here you can buy the circle backs by the dozen for between $2.00 and $2.10 a pack:
http://www.batteriesandbutter.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=bb&Product_Code=TALLYHO-9-CIRCLE&Category_Code=

And here you can buy the fan backs by the dozen for between $1.65 and $1.75 a pack:
http://www.batteriesandbutter.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=bb&Product_Code=TALLYHO-9&Category_Code=

They also have some really, REALLY old-school looking Tally Ho Pinochle decks!
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Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #267 on: March 12, 2012, 01:54:47 PM »
 

digipunk

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Still don't have vintage decks. This is the pic of the top layer of a medium flat box that is on its way to me. I should get it by next Tuesday.

I received the box last Sat, it took only 5 days. And here are the pics of the Uncle Sam deck.







 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #268 on: March 13, 2012, 03:04:32 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I stare at that "free of tax" seal and keep thinking to myself. "When are you going to open it?"  :))
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Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #269 on: March 13, 2012, 03:14:46 AM »
 

jmrock

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No need to open... I have an open deck... Sealed in wax paper, missing the Free of Tax Stamp, I'll post it soon... Just started to get real busy... Will post tomorrow... Edit: It's the same back as the Bicycle Leaf Deck...
« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 03:15:12 AM by jmrock »
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #270 on: March 18, 2012, 04:15:36 AM »
 

xZEROx

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Haven't posted anything in a long time. While we wait for the photos from AlessandroPangia and jmrock, I'll put up another photo.

 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #271 on: March 18, 2012, 04:28:23 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Haven't posted anything in a long time. While we wait for the photos from AlessandroPangia and jmrock, I'll put up another photo.



In some ways, it actually feels like we've somehow lost some of the art of printing over the years.  These backs are sharp and beautiful even after all these years.  A modern Rider Back is almost soulless by comparison, even when comparing it to a really vintage Rider Back.  Cupid Backs like these are awesome - I so much prefer this to the modern reprints in gold.  And what the hell happened to the Tally Ho Circle Back that now it's become a one-way deck?!  Lazy man at the Wacom tablet, asleep at the stylus?
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Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #272 on: March 18, 2012, 08:34:23 PM »
 

Dazzleguts

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Vintage card clips, and the best of my vintage and antique decks.
The last pic is of a partial deck found in a box of World War II photos. It is a mini deck, and since there are no indexes it may be older than the 1940s. If anyone has any information that may help me identify these cards I would really appreciate it.

This might not help as much, but I found the same deck with a white back in an canceled auction.
http://everythingelse.bidstart.com/Victorian-1-4-size-deck-Cromwell-Series-D-Harper-and-Co-/9781709/a.html

Just an update on my search for the background of these mystery cards. I went looking at some records not directly related to playing cards and found this:

D. Harper and Co
of 258/262 Holloway Road, London, N7.
listed as an exhibitor in the British Industries Fair for years 1922, 1929, 1937, 1947.

The British Industries Fair was an important exhibition centre in Birmingham, England, built in 1920. Since the fair only started in the 1920s, and D. Harper and Co may have been around much longer than that, I still don't have a year for my partial deck. At least I know the company was around from 1922 - 1947.
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #273 on: March 18, 2012, 08:42:26 PM »
 

xZEROx

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Well at least we have a range now, and know that it's not from the 1800's.
 

Re: Vintage Collection
« Reply #274 on: March 19, 2012, 02:11:01 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Well at least we have a range now, and know that it's not from the 1800's.

We don't know that for certain.  Just because they first exhibited at that fair in 1922, there's no reason to assume that they weren't in existence for many years before that, or that they didn't continue to print cards long after their last exhibition in 1947.

The only thing we do know for certain is that the company is now verified as having been in operation between 1922 and 1947.

EDIT: I gave the cards another look.  The index-less style would put them at being made prior to approximately the 1870s or 1880s, when the "squeezer" design came into being.  However, they're also using more modern versions of the double-headed face cards.  If I had to guess, I'd say the manufacturer simply left off the indices because the cards were so small.  It's entirely possible that the deck was manufactured in the early 20th century.

Have you tried contacting museums that have playing card collections?  I hear that Columbia University here in New York has a rather extensive collection that was donated to the school a handful of years ago.  I sincerely doubt it's the only such collection in existence; more museums have to be out there that have a solid knowledge of antique/vintage playing cards.  Unfortunately, I can't even suggest trying Hochman's book because it only covers American-made decks into the mid-20th century and I don't know of a European or British equivalent.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 02:22:53 AM by Don Boyer »
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