Cheating in a casino

[John B.]

So I was watching Las vegas cheaters revealed and a few of the guys were magicians who used sleights to switch cards and stuff. How do you guys feel about that? In a way he was cheating someone who was cheating a ton of people. Also its a skill anyone could have done. I say it was wrong cool at the same time.

[phantom1412]

I don't think sleight of hands can be used in casino, because they must know all of them and know how to detect if someone is using them. However, it's best not to try.

[John B.]

he was a dealer and would switch his cards when he flipped them over and others that they did not tell us.

[phantom1412]

If he is a dealer then the casino trust him at some point.
Or maybe he cheat for casino?

[John B.]

no he went to prison, he had a guy who would always win and so they would just split the money. the casino thought they could trust him. the show talked about other ways with shinners and flashings cards to people interesting show to say the least.

[Kanped]

Honestly, I know this is wrong but if you've honed your skill to the point where you can cheat someone in a level playing field, I admire that.  I've always wanted to see a game of hold 'em played between 6 cheats- but none of them know the others are cheats.

[AceGambit]

As a player (not a dealer), cheating in a casino using sleight of hand is a difficult (not impossible task).  You have to consider first that your game options are limited pretty much to poker.  Most of the other card games in a casino do you require you to touch the cards, therefore, you are strictly prohibited from doing so.  If you can find me a player who can cheat a game of casino blackjack with sleight of hand, I would be utterly impressed. 

At a private game of poker in a house or whatnot, someone with enough skill and dedication could manage to cheat, even if he/she were not allowed to deal.  That's because usually the situation is 5 or 6 people sitting around a table.  You have about 110 degrees of shade in that kind of scenario.  In a casino, you have to be flawless, as there are potentially people standing around all sides of you who are likely to catch you.

Conclusion -- While technically possible, and if successful, could prove highly lucrative, cheating at a casino does not offer as comfortable a success as cheating at a private game would.  The one true advantage cheating at a casino has is that most of the other players assume it's impossible to cheat in a casino, so their suspicion is lower, while at a private game, you are significantly more likely to arouse suspicion.

[moonexe]

Honestly, I know this is wrong but if you've honed your skill to the point where you can cheat someone in a level playing field, I admire that.

My thoughts exactly.
Besides, "wrong" is very subjective; casinos make insane amounts of money by cheating people to begin with. Cheating them back is stealing from a thief.

[AceGambit]

casinos make insane amounts of money by cheating people to begin with.

Casinos are not cheating anyone.  The odds of winning any given game in a casino is very calculable.  On top of that, the choice to play is entirely the players.  If a player chooses to play a game of chance where the odds are against him.her (which in a casino they almost always are), that is their own choosing.  Casinos make insane amounts of money because people spend insane amounts of money in them.  They thrive by playing on the general public's hope and desperation and belief in luck.  This in itself is rather immoral, and if you choose to use that as a justification to cheat the casino, I would not even try to hold it against you.  They however, do not cheat their players, I forget who said it, but someone once said "The lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math."

[Kanped]

Casinos don't cheat anyone; if you believe in luck over maths, you deserve everything that's coming to you.  Maybe their marketing departs could often be said to be immoral, even evil, but isn't this true of all marketing departments?

[moonexe]

Alright, maybe "tricking people into giving away their money" would be more accurate.
Point is, most people who play in a casino are giving away their money and not winning much. In a standard commercial situation, the buyer gets a product in return; in a casino, he only gets a slim change of winning something, and more often than not, doesn't. I'll agree that there is no lies or illusions involved, but wouldn't necessarily call the method honest either.

Same could be said for a lot of other things, yes. But does that make it false?

Edit: To make things clear, I'm not hating on casinos, I'm only saying that cheating isn't exactly worse than the casino itself. Casinos take advantage of human psychology in clever ways to make money, and cheats use their skills to take advantage of that situation.

[phantom1412]

Cheating in casino mostly the cheater should be a dealer cheat for someone he knows to win.
Or you cn go alone and change cards yourself but this is very difficult.

[AceGambit]

In a standard commercial situation, the buyer gets a product in return; in a casino, he only gets a slim change of winning something, and more often than not, doesn't.

Ahh but you're forgetting, the 'buyer' if you will, does get something in return at a casino.  Say you play roulette.  You put $200 on Red.  In return you get a few things:

1.) you get a 47.4% chance of winning $200
2.) you get the thrill of gambling and the excitement of chance
3.) in most casinos, you get free booze.

Now, clearly there is a measurable value in #1, and depending on your drinking habits, #3 as well.  I caution you, however, not to devalue the second one too much. All the time people will pay for entertainment alone.  You go to a movie, you pay to go rock climbing, pay to play mini-golf, or regular golf for that matter, you go to an arcade, all of these activities require the buyer to pay money without getting anything tangible in return, but no one ever says that the $0.50 it costs to play street fighter is 'cheating' you out of your money.  You're paying for something.

It's actually a fascinating concept though.  If you are up front told that it is impossible for you to win anything and you are paying to play for fun only, then we feel 100% comfortable throwing our money away for the sake of fun.  The second the prospect of winning a prize for your efforts is introduced, we feel ripped off if we don't get a prize.  Even if the game itself still provides the same level of entertainment.

A classic example is the Crane Game.  If you KNEW that you didn't actually get to take home the stuffed animal if you captured it, but that you would simply be presented with a screen saying "YOU WIN!"  I assure you people would still play, because it's a game of strategy and dexterity and skill whatever.  The second you allow them they plausibility for a prize, if they do not earn the prize, it's all "TWO BUCKS FOR THIS!?  WHAT A RIP OFF!!"

[AlessandroPangia]

Now this is an interesting topic. You need to know that cheating the casinos is possible. Have you ever heard of Dr.X or Mr.Z? (I cannot say their names for obvious reasons) Dr.X is believed to be the best dice shooter in the world, even better than Wolfe. He has cheated in the GN and JN casinos, they knew he was cheating of course, but there was no evidence, they cannot send you to jail if they have no evidence. Mr.Z is on the same level of Steve Forte, both of them learnt directly from him. Mr.Z is an excellent card and dice guy he was in casino stuff but then he moved to private games, that's where you get the money. Anyway, casinos have been cheated for almost 50 years now, but it takes a lot of skill to be able to leave them with no evidence. The best tactic is hit and run. Strike once and get as much as you can and then move away. Private games are safer and it's easier to cheat.

[Don Boyer]

Now this is an interesting topic. You need to know that cheating the casinos is possible. Have you ever heard of Dr.X or Mr.Z? (I cannot say their names for obvious reasons) Dr.X is believed to be the best dice shooter in the world, even better than Wolfe. He has cheated in the GN and JN casinos, they knew he was cheating of course, but there was no evidence, they cannot send you to jail if they have no evidence. Mr.Z is on the same level of Steve Forte, both of them learnt directly from him. Mr.Z is an excellent card and dice guy he was in casino stuff but then he moved to private games, that's where you get the money. Anyway, casinos have been cheated for almost 50 years now, but it takes a lot of skill to be able to leave them with no evidence. The best tactic is hit and run. Strike once and get as much as you can and then move away. Private games are safer and it's easier to cheat.

While a casino may not be able to jail you for suspected cheating, they can blacklist you, making you unwelcome at pretty much every other casino in the country.

You're right in saying that the private games are where the action's at.  Some people go to the WSOP or the WPT championships not because they want to win the bracelet and get the big prize, but because they want to get into private games with the other early-round losers and fleece the pants off of them.  More money changes hands in the side games than is given in prize money to all the tourney winners!

[AlessandroPangia]

True, but if they have no evidence at all, they can just suspect, and that is not sufficient to blacklist you if that's the first time. Cheaters are a very important part of us magicians, we shall not forget that.

[Don Boyer]

True, but if they have no evidence at all, they can just suspect, and that is not sufficient to blacklist you if that's the first time. Cheaters are a very important part of us magicians, we shall not forget that.

Actually, no - proof isn't required.  Casinos, like most other businesses, have the right to refuse service to a patron as long as it's not based on a characteristic that's protected by Federal, state or local law.  And because casinos share their lists of who's even suspected of being crooked, when one casino blacklists you, pretty much all the others do as well.  Proof is only needed if they intend to prosecute the cheat, which casinos rarely do except in cases of a huge loss because they don't want a lot of the negative publicity it would create.

Cheaters operate according to predictable patterns - the only way to conceal the pattern is by dividing the labor among a huge number of people like that MIT crew did a few years ago, and even THEY eventually got found out.  Like the old expression says, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool ALL of the people ALL of the time."  Except that casinos never get fooled all of the time.  Cheaters do much better in private games or in illegal fly-by-night operations with less risk of getting caught if they have the right skills (though the consequences of getting caught can be MUCH more serious).

[Lara Krystle "Lane"]

Kensei was brought out of a casino for "cheating" no sleights or anything, just basic mathematic and card counting or whatever its called... ask him...
I don't even know how to play any kind of poker nor do I know how to play blackjack or is it jackblack? whatever. ^_^

[Kanped]

Allow me to clarify;

BLACKJACK:



JACKBLACK;