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New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood

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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2012, 05:43:03 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I want to pledge for this one - while the design isn't 100% practical, it's pretty damn good and very artistic.  I'll just have to see how the funding holds out.  (My funding, not yours!)

The biggest recommendation I'd give regarding the design - if you have a face card with part of the image extending right to the edge of the card, have it stop just short of the edge instead, even if only by a very small distance.  When only select cards are printed into the bleed like that, those cards can be spotted in a face-up deck stack by looking at the edge of the deck.

I have opinions about borders and such as well, but I'm keeping them to myself for now - it would only create a big brouhaha between the collectors and the magicians like what happened when the Artifice deck came out!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 05:44:10 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2012, 09:38:04 AM »
 

uusikissa1

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The biggest recommendation I'd give regarding the design - if you have a face card with part of the image extending right to the edge of the card, have it stop just short of the edge instead, even if only by a very small distance.  When only select cards are printed into the bleed like that, those cards can be spotted in a face-up deck stack by looking at the edge of the deck.

I have opinions about borders and such as well, but I'm keeping them to myself for now - it would only create a big brouhaha between the collectors and the magicians like what happened when the Artifice deck came out!

A quick note for readers here: We have made two modifications to the deck design which we feel keep the integrity of the design and yet satisfy some of the practical needs of the card collecting and magician community. The first, we have very subtly faded the swords of the jacks so they do not bleed off the edge. We felt this actually enhanced the image as it appears as if the swords are disappearing into the background mist. The second being that we added a white border to the back. This last edit was a difficult decision as the original image bleed on the back was a nod to French/German card backs dating from 1600's to the 1800's. As designers though, an important part of our philosophy is functionality and practicality in anything we create, and from the feedback we received it seems to be a very important element for collectors and magicians. It has been fascinating receiving feedback from this community and will no doubt only serve to enhance our future designs for upcoming decks.

A quick question for you Don: what was the big brouhaha with the Artifice deck?
 
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2012, 09:39:50 AM »
 

uusikissa1

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Heres the back, didn't seem to show up in my last post...
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2012, 09:48:34 AM »
 

uusikissa1

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Ok, let my try one more time. I think it was a corrupt file...this should work.
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"Opportunity is missed by people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"

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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2012, 10:02:58 AM »
 

Jin Jian

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close up look the back design look pretty nice ..
 

Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2012, 02:01:28 PM »
 

NathanCanadas

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These are very creative, unlike everything we have seen so far in the card collecting industry. Also, welcome to the forums.
Best of luck,
Nathan
 

Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2012, 12:22:25 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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A quick note for readers here: We have made two modifications to the deck design which we feel keep the integrity of the design and yet satisfy some of the practical needs of the card collecting and magician community. The first, we have very subtly faded the swords of the jacks so they do not bleed off the edge. We felt this actually enhanced the image as it appears as if the swords are disappearing into the background mist. The second being that we added a white border to the back. This last edit was a difficult decision as the original image bleed on the back was a nod to French/German card backs dating from 1600's to the 1800's. As designers though, an important part of our philosophy is functionality and practicality in anything we create, and from the feedback we received it seems to be a very important element for collectors and magicians. It has been fascinating receiving feedback from this community and will no doubt only serve to enhance our future designs for upcoming decks.

A quick question for you Don: what was the big brouhaha with the Artifice deck?

I like the changes you made - they're attractive and practical.  If you wanted, you could do a "fade to edge" similar to Theory11's Bee Stingers, or similar with a tighter, more narrow border, like Encarded's Tendril deck.

The story...

Ellusionist released a deck around the middle of last year, give or take a month or so, called Artifice.  It had completely custom fronts and a very elegant and luxurious-looking back.  But magicians had a problem with an all-white face and an predominantly-black back, particularly at the edge.  Any trick using a flipped card became immediately noticeable.  In addition, the trend for decks printed black into the bleed waned around that time because when handled and shuffled under ordinary circumstances, those black edges chipped in a way that was immediately noticeably and not very pretty.  Ellusionist took all of this into account, ceased production on the two existing models (a blue deck that was widely available and a red deck that was limited to a print run of 5,000) and labeled them as "version 1" - then released "version 2" with a nearly-identical, white-bordered back on a blue deck and a green deck.

The magicians were happy, but the card collectors threw fits, saying that the white border ruined the look of the deck and yelling about how the deck was altered just to suit a bunch of magicians who complained.  Ellusionist's response to the collectors was that the red version 1 deck wasn't remade in a version 2, making it a true collector's item.  Now even the blue version 1 decks are starting to fetch higher prices due to being out of print and loved by collectors.

In the end, as much as the collectors wanted the deck kept the same, Ellusionist is a magic company first, a card company second, catering far more to the needs of the magic community than the card collectors.  Some card collectors hold a grudge over that, saying they'll never buy any more of their decks again.  For a few months, collectors and magicians were arguing over the pros and cons of the switch, sometimes rather strongly.
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2012, 02:22:53 AM »
 

dmbaggs

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I think a border wouldn't look too great on this one. I love the design how it is!!
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2012, 04:48:53 AM »
 

Linguist_

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I think a border wouldn't look too great on this one. I love the design how it is!!

Too late, the border has already been added. But I agree that without it would be better. Magicians should just learn to do tricks that don't involve reversed cards and choose an appropriate deck for the tricks that do have borders which are most of the decks. I think the white border looks out of place on these, and I feel the same about the Artifice. But, oh well.
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2012, 06:44:46 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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See, I just knew when the whole subject of adding a border came into the picture, there'd be people arguing about it!  It's Artifice all over again!

If the deck had a regular pattern to it, something along the lines of a Bee deck, I might actually agree with you.  But this "flagstone" design doesn't lend itself well to that kind of regularity.  Even with the modifications to make the deck back two-way, unless they're cut with a level of precision that USPC simply doesn't have, you will end up with the image just a little bit off-center, resulting in a one-way back that can be seen from the edge - a situation even worse than a visible flipped card in the middle of the deck.

For this design, as much as you may find it less aesthetically pleasing, a border just makes sense.  I'd just opt for a fade-to-edge design - it would also create that "fog" effect he did with the sword-bearing court cards.  I think that would look pretty sweet and please both sides of the debate.

Another aesthetically pleasing concept: instead of making the entire back all flagstones, maybe putting a symmetrical "koi pond" in the middle would work nicely!  It would break up the monotony of the stones and bring in some real beauty - two fish, swimming on opposite ends of the pond, maybe some bamboo shoots growing at each end as well...  It could look very nice and it would just bring the deck's front and back designs closer together in style.

What do you guys think?
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2012, 09:53:51 AM »
 

Russell CircleCityCards

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Ohh god please don't change it!  I liked the original one-way as this is an ART DECK not a casino deck.  I'm fine with how it looks now, 2-way with border. It still looks classy and artistic.
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2012, 12:44:31 PM »
 

uusikissa1

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Yes, I can see the two strong opinions here now. Well, this is certainly been a interesting learning process for us so far, having directly sought out the cardistry community with this deck. Keep in mind our approach to this comes more from a background as artists and designers and, to date , less as card collectors (even though I have a great respect for the history of playing cards and do have a very select collection myself). We already are working on plans for new deck designs (which will definitely move forward faster if we meet our Kickstarter goal) and will, with the info and feedback we have received from the cardistry world, focus on details of each design leaning specifically more towards a specific end user - whether it be collectors or magicians/flourishers. It is hard to balance what we want to achieve as artists/designers and producing a design for the commercial market - sometimes you have to make a living, right? The eternal struggle of an artist...

All this information and feedback only makes us wiser moving forward and will produce better designs in the long run.
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2012, 01:01:14 PM »
 

uusikissa1

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Oh, also could I possibly get a bit of advice from somebody here? I would like to post an update on some detail specs etc. on the Blue Blood Deck / Kickstarter project - what /where is the best place to do it? Should I do it here on this thread or start a new discussion?

Thanks for your help - remember, I'm still pretty new to the discussion board thingy...
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"Opportunity is missed by people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"

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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2012, 01:03:19 PM »
 

Russell CircleCityCards

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Use this thread.
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2012, 01:23:57 PM »
 

uusikissa1

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Thanks Russell - will do.
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Blue Blood Playing Cards / Kickstarter Update
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2012, 02:45:48 PM »
 

uusikissa1

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Just wanted to post a quick update on our Blue Blued Card Deck on Kickstarter:

Specs on the Blue Blood Deck

Manufacturer: USPCC
Card Stock: Bicycle Grade Paper
Finish: Air Cushion and Magic Finish
Deck Type: Standard Poker Deck + Two Jokers + One Kickstarter Pledge  Backer Card (350.00+ pledge or more)
Production Run: 2500 Original Edition
Card Backs: Mirrored Image w/ White border

New "Blue Collar" Pledge Category Added For Collectors   

In the pledge reward section on our Kickstarter page we have added a new 70.00 pledge that includes a signed and numbered uncut press sheet from the run ( + six decks).

We are also happy to say that our project has been added to the "Staff Picks Page" on Kickstarter.
Also we are already over 30% pledged after only five days in... off to a good start, but not there yet.


Cards To Be Revealed

Very shortly we will be revealing the remaining court cards, the ace of spades and the jokers.


Finally, I want to thank everyone here who has pledged and/or helped support the making of the Deck so far - whether or not we reach are goal and produce the deck, I'm really glad to have become a part of this community.

Thanks again,

Peter


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"Opportunity is missed by people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"

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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2012, 08:20:12 PM »
 

lordlupus

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Loved the original one-way back.

Did not mind the revised 2-way back.

Got turned off by the additional white border.

The stupid thing is if I had not seen the original back, I might not have minded the new back.

I am not a magician, cardist or poker player, but a card collector that looks for pretty or cool decks. I have to ponder some more on this. Loving the fronts though.
 

Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2012, 08:32:00 PM »
 

uusikissa1

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yah, I totally understand what your saying about the whole "If I hadn't seen the original..." thing - we have to live with that as designers all the time. Another factor that played into decision was that in production the die that punches the cards out can cause micro chipping if you have a dark full bleed on the card. We have also realized that when we design our next decks they will probably either be geared more towards an art deck for pure collectors or more towards a "functional" cardistry/magician/\flourishing deck. Thanks for the compliment on the faces though!
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"Opportunity is missed by people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"

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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2012, 04:09:21 AM »
 

moonexe

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Here are a few pictures of the stingers that Don previously mentioned. I also think that a faded border would look much better than a clean-cut white border.
https://www.tannens.com/shop/secure/images/products/8808.jpg
http://dealingdeuces.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/h/wht-stingert11.png
I'm very interested in the deck regardless, the decision is yours, but there's my opinion. ;)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 04:11:17 AM by Moon.exe »
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2012, 04:59:01 AM »
 

dmbaggs

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I think a border wouldn't look too great on this one. I love the design how it is!!

Too late, the border has already been added. But I agree that without it would be better. Magicians should just learn to do tricks that don't involve reversed cards and choose an appropriate deck for the tricks that do have borders which are most of the decks. I think the white border looks out of place on these, and I feel the same about the Artifice. But, oh well.

I might have to think about not backing these now. The border kind of kills it for me.
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2012, 09:12:47 AM »
 

Russell CircleCityCards

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You have raised $3,700 in 6 days... don't be too quick to change the designs again. You'll make the goal and you will always have people disagree with your design.  It's the worst part of working on a public platform.  The best part is succeeding in public and having your product in the hands of hundreds (thousands?) of people!
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2012, 09:36:19 AM »
 

uusikissa1

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Hey Russell,

Thanks for the encouragement! We are definitely not new to designing product for the commercial market, but the Kickstarter platform is new to us - couple that with our sudden introduction and feedback to the card collecting/magician/cardistry world to make for an interesting learning experience. It's like pitching a design to the entire world instead of one client.

Yes, lots of opinions out there...can't please everyone. Our basic philosophy as designers is to create designs we would want to own ourselves - most of our designs are pretty unique and not overly commercial.

Well, here's to the project succeeding!
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"Opportunity is missed by people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"

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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2012, 01:11:58 PM »
 

NathanCanadas

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Hey Russell,

Thanks for the encouragement! We are definitely not new to designing product for the commercial market, but the Kickstarter platform is new to us - couple that with our sudden introduction and feedback to the card collecting/magician/cardistry world to make for an interesting learning experience. It's like pitching a design to the entire world instead of one client.

Yes, lots of opinions out there...can't please everyone. Our basic philosophy as designers is to create designs we would want to own ourselves - most of our designs are pretty unique and not overly commercial.

Well, here's to the project succeeding!
Is there any way to pledge for just one deck and no tattoo?
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2012, 03:17:53 PM »
 

moonexe

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Nathan, it's not the signature, it's the "Found The Discourse via:" field. :P

My usual pledge is always 3 decks, and I gotta say I feel a little uneasy about the absence of an in-between tier. Many people will tell you it's the ideal amount - one deck for keeping sealed, one to use, and one more just in case. Two decks could end up not being enough, but six gets a little expensive... I'd be fine with 4 decks, too.
(I'd definitely pledge for 6 if I can afford it, but I'm still not sure of that yet. ::))
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Re: New Deck on Kickstarter - Blue Blood
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2012, 04:31:55 PM »
 

uusikissa1

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Hey Nathan and moon,

We could do a custom pledge for you (we have already done some for other people withe special requests)

If you place a pledge in the 25.00 category level for 30.00 and follow up with an email we could replace those existing items with three decks. we're keeping a running list of special request/orders. We are trying to avoid to many pledge levels on the side bar. At the same time we are trying to accommodate custom orders as long as they don't get too wacky - so far everyone has been pretty cool about it.
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"Opportunity is missed by people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"

Thomas Edison
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