Mystic Techno Deck on Kickstarter

[bmpokerworld]

@ Bmpokerworld : I really wanted to stay out of this but we will be getting a prototype deck soon, this should answer any questions on quality.

Also about the chinese manufacturer, I really didnt know much about cards back then and I am still learning.

Clearly you don't. You could get a prototype and probably 50 people will love them and 50 people won't, that is the way it goes. I never said I thought Brahma made horrible cards. I just feel USPCC is better. That is my opinion and everyone has one.

None of this changes anything, you have no clue on what you are doing and you only got involved because you thought you could make money. You have no idea how these cards even feel or handle, so how could you say they are of high quality? You can't and that only reinforces my point.

You went from, what I felt was a very nice back design especially for a poker deck, to this childish an cartoon design. Again my Opinion.
Thanks!

[NathanCanadas]

Too many times, too many people ignore the facts and just plain lie on this forum to suit their own needs. Perfect example yesterday Nathancards says" he is printing 5000 at $1.50 per deck is his cost. Where does he come up with that number?
Thanks!

Hey that isn't exactly what I said. I know for a fact that Rajas prints the decks for less than 1$ a deck. And Reagan said that in order to reproduce a finish that makes the deck similar to a plastic deck, it costs him an extra almost .5$ a deck.
So I just rounded it. I didn't back these so I don't know exactly how much they cost. I was just throwing it out there. No need to stone me for a simple mistake. I agree with the points you are making. All I am saying is that we can't expect the best deck on earth printed for 1$ a deck.

[CBJ]

Man, every time you guys debate this deck.. it gets bumped to the top.

This deck does not deserve all the bumping, just let it die.. please.

Any serious card collector will stay away from this crap, and any novice card collector should just follow our lead.  If these pitiful projects get funded, it will just bring more of these horrible decks to fruition.
And, all the discussion these decks get, makes these """designers""" feel important because they are getting attention.  If people ignore these decks, they will go away.

This will be my last post in this thread... I encourage you to follow my lead.

CBJ

[bmpokerworld]

Too many times, too many people ignore the facts and just plain lie on this forum to suit their own needs. Perfect example yesterday Nathancards says" he is printing 5000 at $1.50 per deck is his cost. Where does he come up with that number?
Thanks!

Hey that isn't exactly what I said. I know for a fact that Rajas prints the decks for less than 1$ a deck. And Reagan said that in order to reproduce a finish that makes the deck similar to a plastic deck, it costs him an extra almost .5$ a deck.
So I just rounded it. I didn't back these so I don't know exactly how much they cost. I was just throwing it out there. No need to stone me for a simple mistake. I agree with the points you are making. All I am saying is that we can't expect the best deck on earth printed for 1$ a deck.

But when you just throw out numbers arbitrarily, people assume it's fact. If you don't know, then you should not really be quoting numbers. Exactly my point. So what do you really think you are going to get for a $1.00 a deck?

Personally, I wish it would be the best deck ever made. That would be perfect. The highest quality deck for the cheapest price, could you ask for anymore?
Thanks!

[NathanCanadas]

Too many times, too many people ignore the facts and just plain lie on this forum to suit their own needs. Perfect example yesterday Nathancards says" he is printing 5000 at $1.50 per deck is his cost. Where does he come up with that number?
Thanks!

Hey that isn't exactly what I said. I know for a fact that Rajas prints the decks for less than 1$ a deck. And Reagan said that in order to reproduce a finish that makes the deck similar to a plastic deck, it costs him an extra almost .5$ a deck.
So I just rounded it. I didn't back these so I don't know exactly how much they cost. I was just throwing it out there. No need to stone me for a simple mistake. I agree with the points you are making. All I am saying is that we can't expect the best deck on earth printed for 1$ a deck.

But when you just throw out numbers arbitrarily, people assume it's fact. If you don't know, then you should not really be quoting numbers. Exactly my point. So what do you really think you are going to get for a $1.00 a deck?

Personally, I wish it would be the best deck ever made. That would be perfect. The highest quality deck for the cheapest price, could you ask for anymore?
Thanks!

The numbers Reagan gave weren't entirely true, but little did I know that. Also, since the demand is MUCH lower than the supply, I obviously know that we won't nearly get the decks as low as the price Reagan payed, but it's the same for most decks! I'm just kinda being the devil's advocate here so I will stop. I don't have much more points to argue anyways, and anyways if we really want to continue this debate, I think we should do so on the Ultra Ape Deck Thread.
Thx,
Nathan
PS: I am not trying to offend you BMPokerWorld. I think your company is really amazing, and when I am looking for decks to add to my collection I always turn to your company. All I am trying to do is defend Reagan. His designs are improving, and I don't think we should sink him. I do think giving him criticism is great to help him improve though.
PPS: How do you store all your decks? Do you have a storage place, a warehouse... ?

[ReaganM]

Yes lets please move these arguments to my topic in design and development. Ill be at work for a while so I wont be able to respond until much later.

[bmpokerworld]

Too many times, too many people ignore the facts and just plain lie on this forum to suit their own needs. Perfect example yesterday Nathancards says" he is printing 5000 at $1.50 per deck is his cost. Where does he come up with that number?
Thanks!

Hey that isn't exactly what I said. I know for a fact that Rajas prints the decks for less than 1$ a deck. And Reagan said that in order to reproduce a finish that makes the deck similar to a plastic deck, it costs him an extra almost .5$ a deck.
So I just rounded it. I didn't back these so I don't know exactly how much they cost. I was just throwing it out there. No need to stone me for a simple mistake. I agree with the points you are making. All I am saying is that we can't expect the best deck on earth printed for 1$ a deck.

But when you just throw out numbers arbitrarily, people assume it's fact. If you don't know, then you should not really be quoting numbers. Exactly my point. So what do you really think you are going to get for a $1.00 a deck?

Personally, I wish it would be the best deck ever made. That would be perfect. The highest quality deck for the cheapest price, could you ask for anymore?
Thanks!

The numbers Reagan gave weren't entirely true, but little did I know that. Also, since the demand is MUCH lower than the supply, I obviously know that we won't nearly get the decks as low as the price Reagan payed, but it's the same for most decks! I'm just kinda being the devil's advocate here so I will stop. I don't have much more points to argue anyways, and anyways if we really want to continue this debate, I think we should do so on the Ultra Ape Deck Thread.
Thx,
Nathan
PS: I am not trying to offend you BMPokerWorld. I think your company is really amazing, and when I am looking for decks to add to my collection I always turn to your company. All I am trying to do is defend Reagan. His designs are improving, and I don't think we should sink him. I do think giving him criticism is great to help him improve though.
PPS: How do you store all your decks? Do you have a storage place, a warehouse... ?

We just released a 60 deck acrylic display.
Thanks!

[NathanCanadas]

Too many times, too many people ignore the facts and just plain lie on this forum to suit their own needs. Perfect example yesterday Nathancards says" he is printing 5000 at $1.50 per deck is his cost. Where does he come up with that number?
Thanks!

Hey that isn't exactly what I said. I know for a fact that Rajas prints the decks for less than 1$ a deck. And Reagan said that in order to reproduce a finish that makes the deck similar to a plastic deck, it costs him an extra almost .5$ a deck.
So I just rounded it. I didn't back these so I don't know exactly how much they cost. I was just throwing it out there. No need to stone me for a simple mistake. I agree with the points you are making. All I am saying is that we can't expect the best deck on earth printed for 1$ a deck.

But when you just throw out numbers arbitrarily, people assume it's fact. If you don't know, then you should not really be quoting numbers. Exactly my point. So what do you really think you are going to get for a $1.00 a deck?

Personally, I wish it would be the best deck ever made. That would be perfect. The highest quality deck for the cheapest price, could you ask for anymore?
Thanks!

The numbers Reagan gave weren't entirely true, but little did I know that. Also, since the demand is MUCH lower than the supply, I obviously know that we won't nearly get the decks as low as the price Reagan payed, but it's the same for most decks! I'm just kinda being the devil's advocate here so I will stop. I don't have much more points to argue anyways, and anyways if we really want to continue this debate, I think we should do so on the Ultra Ape Deck Thread.
Thx,
Nathan
PS: I am not trying to offend you BMPokerWorld. I think your company is really amazing, and when I am looking for decks to add to my collection I always turn to your company. All I am trying to do is defend Reagan. His designs are improving, and I don't think we should sink him. I do think giving him criticism is great to help him improve though.
PPS: How do you store all your decks? Do you have a storage place, a warehouse... ?

We just released a 60 deck acrylic display.
Thanks!

But you have hundreds of different deck and more than 2 of most of them. Do they all fit in your acrylic displays or do you store the duplicates somewhere else?

[bmpokerworld]

No one of each. The others I keep separately.
Thanks!

[Pentagear]

Man, every time you guys debate this deck.. it gets bumped to the top.

This deck does not deserve all the bumping, just let it die.. please.

Any serious card collector will stay away from this crap, and any novice card collector should just follow our lead.  If these pitiful projects get funded, it will just bring more of these horrible decks to fruition.
And, all the discussion these decks get, makes these """designers""" feel important because they are getting attention.  If people ignore these decks, they will go away.

This will be my last post in this thread... I encourage you to follow my lead.

CBJ

I agree, this thread needs some moderation as it has derailed from the deck itself and has become a boxing match between people. Either leave the comments strictly relating to the deck the thread was originally posted about, or make a new thread with the new line of discussion.

[ReaganM]

I continued our argument In my design and development topic. Link ---> http://aethercards.com/discourse/index.php?topic=2097.new#new

[DeckReview]

Are you serious, they have $1500 already? <goes and checks>

OK, it's $1200 right now, with 36 backers. So there are 36 human beings, with brains and eyes, in the world that think this is acceptable? I'm stunned. Personal tastes or not, there is a base-level to all art that provides a foundation of quality that personal opinion adds too. This has no foundation of any kind and it is hugely sad that there is so little concern for creating a basic quality product, and even sadder that people will spend money on such poorly considered design. Maddening!

I guess there is no real need for me to actually design and work out details of my next deck. I can slap standard courts cards on it, pick some fonts to put on the box and call it a day. You heard it here first!

Aurum (Crap Edition) will be available next week!

I completely agree. With that statement, I felt there was this somehow deep-lurking challenge to turn utter crap into something that could have potential. I don't know why I did it, compulsions are like that I suppose, but I felt like sharing my take on this terrible train wreck... Took me all of 10 minutes during a bout of utter boredom.


You may NOT use this image without my express written permission!

Now that card back is mystical 

[ReaganM]

Are you serious, they have $1500 already? <goes and checks>

OK, it's $1200 right now, with 36 backers. So there are 36 human beings, with brains and eyes, in the world that think this is acceptable? I'm stunned. Personal tastes or not, there is a base-level to all art that provides a foundation of quality that personal opinion adds too. This has no foundation of any kind and it is hugely sad that there is so little concern for creating a basic quality product, and even sadder that people will spend money on such poorly considered design. Maddening!

I guess there is no real need for me to actually design and work out details of my next deck. I can slap standard courts cards on it, pick some fonts to put on the box and call it a day. You heard it here first!

Aurum (Crap Edition) will be available next week!

I completely agree. With that statement, I felt there was this somehow deep-lurking challenge to turn utter crap into something that could have potential. I don't know why I did it, compulsions are like that I suppose, but I felt like sharing my take on this terrible train wreck... Took me all of 10 minutes during a bout of utter boredom.


You may NOT use this image without my express written permission!

Now that card back is mystical 

Thats actually really kinda good looking.

[JimmyJohns]

Let's forget about this deck... Basic rule, don"t support crappy decks!!!
I'm going to lock this thread , if I can.

Cheers JJ.

[Pentagear]

Let's forget about this deck... Basic rule, don"t support crappy decks!!!
I'm going to lock this thread , if I can.

Cheers JJ.

You've got my complete support. 100%! Lock it down!

[Aaron]

I wouldn't lock it, there may still be people who want to say stuff about the deck. Why would you lock it?

[Curt]

Man, you guys and your self moderation is awesome!

I think the original designer should be a bit jealous of how easily Pentagear made his design 1000% better in 10 minutes. Feel free to carry on the conversation but, as others have mentioned, please keep the context strictly to the Mystic Techno deck.

Thanks
- Curt

[NathanCanadas]

Man, you guys and your self moderation is awesome!

I think the original designer should be a bit jealous of how easily Pentagear made his design 1000% better in 10 minutes. Feel free to carry on the conversation but, as others have mentioned, please keep the context strictly to the Mystic Techno deck.

Thanks
- Curt

I don't think it's necessary to lock it. Just like for TCA, we might want to discuss new updates and stuff.

[dcell59]

Are you serious, they have $1500 already? <goes and checks>

OK, it's $1200 right now, with 36 backers. So there are 36 human beings, with brains and eyes, in the world that think this is acceptable? I'm stunned. Personal tastes or not, there is a base-level to all art that provides a foundation of quality that personal opinion adds too. This has no foundation of any kind and it is hugely sad that there is so little concern for creating a basic quality product, and even sadder that people will spend money on such poorly considered design. Maddening!

I guess there is no real need for me to actually design and work out details of my next deck. I can slap standard courts cards on it, pick some fonts to put on the box and call it a day. You heard it here first!

Aurum (Crap Edition) will be available next week!

Technically, he doesn't have anything, since pledges aren't money until the project is funded. In my case, I put in a pledge so I could talk to the guy as a backer and to get my name on the list early. In many cases, project managers will give you more info and insight when you are a backer that you don't get as an outsider. I have no qualms about pulling out of a project that I don't think is up to standards, but I rarely have to do so because most projects like this don't get funded.

I do think he's a bit inexperienced. I asked him how he planned to ship in June when he wouldn't get funded until June, and I get the impression that he thinks that he gets the money on the day the project funds, and that USPCC will start printing his design the next day. This is not uncommon in Kickstarter projects.

That said, I do appreciate projects like yours, Paul. I think you did a great job preparing your project with USPCC before starting your Kickstarter project. I hope that other designers take a cue from this. I also hope that people look at what happened to people like Lance, Russell, and Alex and realize that the "4-6 weeks" quote from USPCC doesn't include all of the pre-press work.

[Paul Carpenter]

Very interesting dcell. How people approach Kickstarter can be quite different apparently. I personally wouldn't be interested to ever back a project that was not clearly defined, fully realized and ready to go. I think of Kickstarter as simply "preordering" and in no way feel collaborative or that I need to give my opinion to a project manager. I guess that colored my approach a lot in how I setup and ran my project, but now I can see how others might approach that from 180 degrees different. Thanks for enlightening that, I'll have to consider that perspective a bit...

Still, I hold by my opinion that this project is not thought out in any way and would need months of work to get it Kickstarter ready.

[Don Boyer]

Still, I hold by my opinion that this project is not thought out in any way and would need months of work to get it Kickstarter ready.

Without some more education on how print jobs really work and what constitutes good design, this project will never truly be Kickstarter ready.

[dcell59]

It's not uncommon for Kickstarter card projects to assume that the "4-6 weeks" quote they typically get from the printers means that it will take 4-6 weeks from the day that they send in the art. Hopefully, people are starting to learn how much work goes into the pre-press process.

In general, Kickstarter projects are rarely in such an advanced state as the Tendril and Spectrum projects when they get started. The majority of the projects I've backed go to Kickstarter with just enough work to show that the idea is fully formed, such as having basic artwork or an early prototype, but they often don't know what it's going to take to make it happen. This is why a large number of the projects don't make their estimated delivery date.

In the case of the Mystic Techno Deck, I'm not sure whether what the designer has shown us is supposed to be anything close to the final product or not. We're supposed to get a new update any day now, but that's been the case for a few weeks. It's highly unlikely that it will get funded in this first round, but neither did Galvanic or Living Dead, and they did quite well the second time (though admittedly the Living Dead guys were much further along their first time, and then ended up being able to do more so they got more money). Hopefully if he decides to try again, he'll use what he's learned from the first attempt.

[Don Boyer]

It's not uncommon for Kickstarter card projects to assume that the "4-6 weeks" quote they typically get from the printers means that it will take 4-6 weeks from the day that they send in the art. Hopefully, people are starting to learn how much work goes into the pre-press process.

In general, Kickstarter projects are rarely in such an advanced state as the Tendril and Spectrum projects when they get started. The majority of the projects I've backed go to Kickstarter with just enough work to show that the idea is fully formed, such as having basic artwork or an early prototype, but they often don't know what it's going to take to make it happen. This is why a large number of the projects don't make their estimated delivery date.

In the case of the Mystic Techno Deck, I'm not sure whether what the designer has shown us is supposed to be anything close to the final product or not. We're supposed to get a new update any day now, but that's been the case for a few weeks. It's highly unlikely that it will get funded in this first round, but neither did Galvanic or Living Dead, and they did quite well the second time (though admittedly the Living Dead guys were much further along their first time, and then ended up being able to do more so they got more money). Hopefully if he decides to try again, he'll use what he's learned from the first attempt.

You raise some valid points, but the Kickstarting public is getting tired of projects that aren't even halfway there and lacking a lot of polish.  I'm betting that the looming deadline and still-distant goal are taking the steam out of the designer's sails.  In this case, I can't say that's a bad thing.  Even the colors he was choosing, according to experienced graphic designers here on this board, can't be accurately reproduced in print!  To use the popular expression, this entire project's a day late and a dollar short in so many different ways.


If this person wants that deck to see the light of day, I think either some serious improvement in his graphics skills is required - or a partner who has the skills he lacks.  He'd probably get all the input he needs and then some if he was here on this board.  To my knowledge, he's not.

[Pepka]

Those are pretty Fugly indeed.  I've only seen 2 other decks on KS, the Spectrum deck and the Blue Blood deck.  I think the BB deck is really beautiful, but I would never use it in performance.  The Spectrum I would absolutely use.  I only buy decks that I would either use, or ones that I find visually appealing.  The only thing I would use the Mystic Techno deck for is to put under a wobbly couch.

[Don Boyer]

Those are pretty Fugly indeed.  I've only seen 2 other decks on KS, the Spectrum deck and the Blue Blood deck.  I think the BB deck is really beautiful, but I would never use it in performance.  The Spectrum I would absolutely use.  I only buy decks that I would either use, or ones that I find visually appealing.  The only thing I would use the Mystic Techno deck for is to put under a wobbly couch.

I think you give them too much credit for their functionality!  I wouldn't trust my wobbly couch to that deck!