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Post your ideas for new card technology & features!

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Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« on: April 08, 2012, 06:58:18 AM »
 

xela

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This is a repeat of an old thread, but with the new members here I'd like to get fresh perspective. What new tech and features can you guys come up with? What should be common sense in a deck that is still not there? What are practical new features that can be added?

I don't mean design-wise, I mean manufacturing-wise.

When we get a hefty amount of responses, I'm going to forward this thread to the USPCC. Worst case scenario, nothing happens. Maybe, though, we can plant a seed! Who knows? Smaller forums have accomplished greater things before.

I for one would like to see a thinner stock available for use with the magic coating + no embossing. As far as new tech goes, it would be awesome if foil could be integrated into the stock somehow. Anyone remember holographic trading cards? I'd love access to that on a playing card, and it would certainly look sweet in any magic routine.

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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2012, 08:04:27 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Card stock that's black inside and out, with a printing process similar to silkscreen to get inks to adhere to the card surface, allowing for the creation of a black deck that doesn't go white at the edges as it chips with use.  Other colors might be nice, if black is a success.


Lamination that takes place after the cards are cut, to laminate the edges and not just the surfaces.


Higher-grade crush-resistant boxes as an option for collectors' decks, to provide better protection.


More to come.
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2012, 08:55:37 AM »
 

loldudex2

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I would love to see dyed stock (like Don Said), and althought it would be so gimmicky, I want glow in the dark ink on at least one deck.
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2012, 11:43:08 AM »
 

jriffel

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1) Truely digital presses.  Get rid of printing plates completely. 
1b) Oh, and better inks that will work with the higher resolution of the digital presses.
2) Laser sheet cutters that use the existing marks for centering the individual cards.
3) Management that cares about quality.
4) A ban on skulls and goth.  Even though that stuff sells, it's soooooo 80's.  Let's move on.
5) A rule that Bicycle/USPCC Legal dept. must accept/reject a design before manufacturing gives the OK.
6) Bicycle/USPCC project and line managers that know how to schedule projects.
7) An Ombudsman that knows the ropes of producing decks and helps others speed their design/production path.
 

Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2012, 02:15:42 PM »
 

DeckReview

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I would like to see a plastic deck truly handle like a magic coated paper deck
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2012, 04:35:10 PM »
 

moonexe

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A stock with Aristocrat softness and Bee durability would be amazing. Or something similar to Ohio bike stock. Or both.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 04:36:05 PM by Moon.exe »
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2012, 08:00:30 PM »
 

NathanCanadas

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I would love to see metal engraved boxes!
 

Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2012, 08:34:51 PM »
 

Billywiz

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I'm with Alex, I'd love to see some holographic images on the court cards, aces and pips. Have a nice inked back design and holograph on the faces.
 

Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2012, 11:21:43 PM »
 

Joshua Robinson

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a box that is metal, not just looks like it (im talking about steam punks and Deck one's) so it would look even better!
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 06:29:14 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I would love to see dyed stock (like Don Said), and althought it would be so gimmicky, I want glow in the dark ink on at least one deck.

Kikkerland already makes plastic decks printed with glow-in-the-dark ink.  The problem is activating the glow - all the cards have to be exposed to strong light prior.

1) Truely digital presses.  Get rid of printing plates completely. 
1b) Oh, and better inks that will work with the higher resolution of the digital presses.
2) Laser sheet cutters that use the existing marks for centering the individual cards.
3) Management that cares about quality.
4) A ban on skulls and goth.  Even though that stuff sells, it's soooooo 80's.  Let's move on.
5) A rule that Bicycle/USPCC Legal dept. must accept/reject a design before manufacturing gives the OK.
6) Bicycle/USPCC project and line managers that know how to schedule projects.
7) An Ombudsman that knows the ropes of producing decks and helps others speed their design/production path.

1) I'm not so sure that a fully-digital press can match the resolution of existing plates.
2) It's not the cutting that's the issue with misaligned cards as much as it is the precision required to make the front and back of the deck sheet perfectly aligned.  Tough thing to do in a mass-production process.  Though it would be nice, yes.
3) I think they care - based on what Q-level you paid for.  :))
4) I *like* skulls and goth!  Give it a rest - BBM is the only major player still into the skulls and goth anyway.
5) Agreed.
6) I think they do - but it's scheduled to the best interests of USPC, not Joe Designer and his first deck.
7) Coming soon.

I would like to see a plastic deck truly handle like a magic coated paper deck

That would be nice.  Closest I've seen is plastic that feels like powdered paper stock.  Try Cartamundi Ace Plastic, Standard Edition.  The Special Edition sucks - it's got a shine on it that makes the cards stick to each other.

A stock with Aristocrat softness and Bee durability would be amazing. Or something similar to Ohio bike stock. Or both.

To me, it sounds like you're describing the old Tally Ho stock in that first sentence!  It's why an Aristocrat variant was used to replace the Tally Ho stock when they stopped ordering it.

I'm with Alex, I'd love to see some holographic images on the court cards, aces and pips. Have a nice inked back design and holograph on the faces.

I dunno.  Holograms on cards sounds like a fad.  They use it in currency and on credit/debit cards for security, but those are cheaply made and are meant for security purposes to prevent counterfeiting.  The truly artistic holograms (as opposed to cheap laser-etched foil) are more costly to produce.  I used to study holography a little in high school, back when the first-ever museum dedicated solely to holography was open in SoHo, in lower Manhattan.

The only thing I'd see holograms doing for playing cards is making them cost more.

I would love to see metal engraved boxes!
a box that is metal, not just looks like it (im talking about steam punks and Deck one's) so it would look even better!

They'd be great - if you wanted to pay an extra $10-30 per deck than what you do now!  Metal boxes wouldn't come cheap.  Even foil-covered plastic or paper costs more, never mind actual metal.  Let's not even get into how fugly they'd look once they got all scratched up - and the only unscratchable metals out there are too impractical (tungsten carbide can only be cut by diamond blades or lasers, and mercury is a liquid).

If you really want a metal box, get one of those metal cases some magic shops sell.  They're usually just a little cheaper than a Porper clip, cards not included.
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2012, 10:40:12 AM »
 

loldudex2

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Don, by "Coming Soon" on the idea "An Ombudsman that knows the ropes of producing decks and helps others speed their design/production path.", could this be The House of Playing Cards, we've all been waiting for  ;D
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2012, 10:45:51 AM »
 

NathanCanadas

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Don, I would expect a deck with a metal case to be around 30$: no more than a porper clip.
 

Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2012, 10:58:11 AM »
 

sinsandman

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Looks like this thread is getting off topic. Thought this was a topic to post what you wanted to see? Looking like it is turning into a "criticize what others want to see" thread. So which is it?

I would like to see better made tuck boxes. Mainly the glue that hold is together needs to be reformulated to hold better.
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2012, 12:37:49 PM »
 

Dudeee

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Looks like this thread is getting off topic. Thought this was a topic to post what you wanted to see? Looking like it is turning into a "criticize what others want to see" thread. So which is it?

I would like to see better made tuck boxes. Mainly the glue that hold is together needs to be reformulated to hold better.

I agree, this is a brain storming session, let's not make this into an idea bashing session.

I would like to see more variants of the tuck boxes eg. Flip top boxes.
 

Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2012, 12:51:21 PM »
 

CBJ

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I'd like to see some old school stuff.. like where the cards are wrapped and have a seal on them inside the tuckbox..

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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2012, 12:54:15 PM »
 

CBJ

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Oh, and something else I thought would be cool..

Instead of using a clear cellophane to wrap the tuckbox, how about using a different color.

So let's say you had blue on your tuckbox, and used a yellow cellophane.. it would look green.

Probably not the best color example.. lol

Or an opaque cellophane that could have printing on it (i.e. the gargoyles Expo deck).

Comic companies use this on occasion as well, like the Death / Return of Superman books

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CBJ
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 12:59:24 PM by CBJ »
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2012, 01:02:56 PM »
 

loldudex2

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Scented decks anyone  ;D


Now on a more serious note better detail, and maybe finish sprayed on the inside of the book st that way cards don't get stuck in the box. Not a big deal, but it's annoying when the box warps, and the cards don't always come out.

Different shaped seals would be pretty sweet, and guilded decks that handle well would be awesome!
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2012, 01:54:44 PM »
 

saurabh

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An air-cushion type deck with a varnish that doesn't warp in humidity.

And deck seals that don't leave a sticky residue. Sort of like post it glue. Not exactly like post its, that would effect the purpose. But I think you know what I mean.
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2012, 01:55:34 PM »
 

saurabh

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what the hell? I'm getting duplicate posts for some reason!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 01:58:40 PM by saurabh »
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2012, 01:56:34 PM »
 

saurabh

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And now triplicate! Something wrong with my phone browser.

Can a mod please delete these? I'm terribly sorry.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 02:00:48 PM by saurabh »
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2012, 05:57:56 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Don, by "Coming Soon" on the idea "An Ombudsman that knows the ropes of producing decks and helps others speed their design/production path.", could this be The House of Playing Cards, we've all been waiting for  ;D

[lawyer steps in front of podium]

"My client has no comment at this time."

[lawyer steps back]

Next question?

Don, I would expect a deck with a metal case to be around 30$: no more than a porper clip.

Please, stop and think about what you're saying for just a second.  You want to make a deck of cards where EVERY PACK costs $30!?  Just buy a metal case separately!  Get the Elite Card Guard, if you can find them - they tend to sell out quickly.

Looks like this thread is getting off topic. Thought this was a topic to post what you wanted to see? Looking like it is turning into a "criticize what others want to see" thread. So which is it?

I would like to see better made tuck boxes. Mainly the glue that hold is together needs to be reformulated to hold better.

I agree, this is a brain storming session, let's not make this into an idea bashing session.

I would like to see more variants of the tuck boxes eg. Flip top boxes.


Sorry about straying from the topic, but it's not really straying to discuss the ideas at hand.  Some of these ideas really are totally awesome.

Better glue would be a good idea.  Or just better application of existing glues - it's more of a quality control issue than a new glue issue, I think.  If we can glue a construction worker to a steel girder, I think we have the technology to make a few pieces of paper stick together...  :))
 
 (For anyone who wasn't a kid in the US in the 1970s, it's a reference to a TV ad for one of the most popular "super glues" [a.k.a. cyanoacrylate adhesives] in the country, "Krazy Glue".  In the ad, a few drops are added to the tpo of a construction worker's hardhat, then pressed into a steel beam from underneath - cutaway to the worker hanging from his hat, arms wrapped around it to keep from falling off the beam.)
 
 As far as flip-top boxes, we already have them.  They're sometimes called "cigarette" boxes, after the crush-resistant hard boxes some cigarettes are packed in.  Brahma offers them as part of its product line.  They're more common in Europe than they are here for some reason - I happen to think they're cool.

They're probably not used as much here because they cost more to produce or something, meaning they're not great for common decks, but for an "artisan" deck, hell, yeah!  I'll do that idea one better and suggest that the box be made of a thin, light hard plastic similar to the cover of some brands of spiral notebook - a flip-top box that's also weather-resistant but still inexpensive!

Oh, and something else I thought would be cool..

Instead of using a clear cellophane to wrap the tuckbox, how about using a different color.

So let's say you had blue on your tuckbox, and used a yellow cellophane.. it would look green.

Probably not the best color example.. lol

Or an opaque cellophane that could have printing on it (i.e. the gargoyles Expo deck).

Comic companies use this on occasion as well, like the Death / Return of Superman books

(Click Pics for Larger View)

CBJ

It could have it's applications, I guess.  It would have allowed De'vo to show the entire box of his April Fool's Deck without giving away a single thing about the contents, and at the same time he could have changed the actual box's art to match the deck more closely!

The only issue I'd have with it is that collectors would feel compelled to have a deck sealed with the colored wrap as well as unsealed to show off the actual box - or worse, they'd want one of every color of plastic wrap used!  At that point, the packaging is the product more so than its contents.  Manufacturers would love it though, since it would mean the chance for more revenue.  For the general market, it would be a fun fad, harmless, and potentially stimulating to deck sales, so that's a win-win.

Scented decks anyone  ;D


Now on a more serious note better detail, and maybe finish sprayed on the inside of the book st that way cards don't get stuck in the box. Not a big deal, but it's annoying when the box warps, and the cards don't always come out.

Different shaped seals would be pretty sweet, and guilded decks that handle well would be awesome!

Believe it or not, there'd be a real market for scented decks!  Young children and girls would have a blast with them, and girls in particular are less likely in general to buy playing cards than boys as they get older.  I could see it being a huge hit in Japan!  Imagine selling it with lip balms, candies or chewing gums that have the same fragrance!  I seriously think you hit on a big idea there.

I can't speak for the warped-cards-stuck-in-box scenario, since I've never experienced it.  I think that problem has more to do with the cards absorbing too much humidity in the first place.  Use better stock and you'll no longer feel the need to coat the inside of the box, I think.

Different seal shapes - why not?  They were never a uniform shape to start with when they were government tax stamps.

Gilded decks that can perform?  Hmmm...  Great idea, but I don't see how it could be executed.  Doesn't mean it can't be, just that I don't see how.  Maybe if thinner coatings were used, combined with a dip-coated card lamination applied after the cards were cut.  What do you think?  Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller...?  :))

An air-cushion type deck with a varnish that doesn't warp in humidity.

And deck seals that don't leave a sticky residue. Sort of like post it glue. Not exactly like post its, that would effect the purpose. But I think you know what I mean.

That air-cushion idea - really, textured stock - isn't an impossible one, but it would require some stocks that are much sturdier than what we have now.  Smooth stocks tend to resist bending more in the first place.  It's those little dimples in the paper that make it a little weaker in each dimpled spot.  Perhaps a superthin plastic-reinforced layer in the paper would make a difference?  I think no matter how you slice it, this would require a paper stock that's at least a little thicker than what's used now - either that, or more fibrous and dense.  Fibrous and dense are the hard parts, though, with all the recycled content in papers today; making a more pure paper would mean making a less eco-friendly deck, and they're bad enough as it is in that department with all the chemicals used in their production.

That seal idea - you want a sticker that doesn't leave a residue.  But most stickers that I know of that come off without a residue also don't provide a very strong seal in the first place.

What do you think of this idea: a sticker that's fully incorporated into the box design, complete with a perforated area that's designed to break right at the edge of the box back?  The seal, rather than looking like some kind of afterthought added on after the box was designed, becomes part of the box itself.  Otherwise, if you're going to make a sticker that's that easily removed, you might as well just leave the seal off and cellophane the box closed, like a lot of current designers are doing.  It increases the production cost to have such an easily-removed sticker which would later only be discarded - just start without the sticker and save the money.

Do you have any ideas for a better way to implement your concept?

That goes for everyone's ideas I've mentioned in this post.  I'm not bashing anyone's ideas - I'm tossing around the practical aspects of it to see if it's truly something feasible or even desirable.  I welcome with open arms any ideas that can accomplish the desired goals in a better way or that make the impossible into the practical.  It's a great thing to say "I want this," but it's even better to be able to say "I want this, it's good for this reason, and this is how it can be achieved."  Think of it as the difference between theoretical science and applied science!
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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2012, 09:55:46 PM »
 

saurabh

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@Don_Boyer I think such a deck already exists. My Ohio Arrcos never warp while my tallies do. So whatever varnish they used on the Arrcos was really good. Now dead with the shifting, but it could be implemented again.
As for the seal, I was thinking something along the lines of Post it notes. The basic use of the seal is tamper protection. So a seal which has a single use glue would be nice. So it won't leave any residue and would be useless once ripped off.

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Re: Post your ideas for new card technology & features!
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2012, 12:25:42 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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@Don_Boyer I think such a deck already exists. My Ohio Arrcos never warp while my tallies do. So whatever varnish they used on the Arrcos was really good. Now dead with the shifting, but it could be implemented again.
As for the seal, I was thinking something along the lines of Post it notes. The basic use of the seal is tamper protection. So a seal which has a single use glue would be nice. So it won't leave any residue and would be useless once ripped off.

My Kentucky Streamlines also never warp.  But they aren't air cushion.  Ellusionist Bicycle Masters probably don't warp much either, especially the original UV500 stock from the earlier printings.

By "Ohio Arrcos," are we talking recent printing, circa 2009 or just before?  Do you know the finish and stock?  Because there's a grand total of exactly two finishes and four stocks in use at USPC right now.  Each stock can be made as embossed (air cushion) or smooth.  Older decks were made using processes and materials that don't exist any more, and the simplest measure to make a card resist warping with current materials is to use a thicker stock that's less likely to bend or warp under any conditions.

Seals were originally created not for tamper resistance but as proof that taxes had been paid to the US Internal Revenue Service when a duty was imposed on playing cards.  After the tax repeal in 1965, the seals remained as a form of advertising for the printing company as well as out of tradition.  Casinos haven't relied on deck seals in decades as a security measure because they're too easily tampered with and replaced - ask any magician!  Besides, you're talking simply from the perspective of a collector, not a casino owner.

Any paper seal that can be removed without leaving a residue provides absolutely zero tamper resistance, so why include it in the first place?  It just adds cost to the product while providing no benefit.  Can you think of a good reason for including them, because if so, I'd like to hear it.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2012, 12:31:58 AM by Don Boyer »
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