Ace limited edition card questions

[DeckReview]

Hey does anyone know anything about the limited edition Ace cards by cartemundi?

http://www.cartamundiusa.com/content/cardproducts/retail/ace/1/index.html

The box and coloring looks cooler than the normal Ace decks for sure. The fanning ability as seen in this video does look poor. I'm interested in what kind of finish it's using and stuff. I'm curious about the deck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlpWPFNe_4M

[Don Boyer]

Hey does anyone know anything about the limited edition Ace cards by cartemundi?

http://www.cartamundiusa.com/content/cardproducts/retail/ace/1/index.html

The box and coloring looks cooler than the normal Ace decks for sure. The fanning ability as seen in this video does look poor. I'm interested in what kind of finish it's using and stuff. I'm curious about the deck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlpWPFNe_4M

I've written about these cards before.  The Ace deck comes in paper and plastic.  The model in the video is Limited Edition Plastic.

I have the standard and limited edition plastic decks.  The standard edition deck back is a one-color design, while it's two-color for the limited edition, adding black for the plane in addition to the red or blue.

The limited edition plastic deck sucks.  It has a pretty plastic shine to it that causes the cards to adhere to each other.  The standard edition decks, however, are among the best plastic cards I've used.  Same materials, but minus the plastic shine - the texture is more like a paper card that's been dusted with fanning powder.

Both versions are available in Barnes and Noble bookstores throughout America.

[Wild Joker]

Hearing about the Limited Edition decks of Ace, curiosity got the better of me, so while I was at Barnes & Noble today, I decided to pick one of the decks (and it was the last one, maybe this was meant to be, lol).

So anyway, after getting home and opening the box and everything . . . heh . . . this deck really makes me laugh.

First of all, I actually think this must have been a used deck - I'm not kidding. There was no plastic shrinkwrap on the box, the seal was already broken (the box itself only had a piece of clear, plastic adhesive to seal it shut), the box itself has fraying, and when I took the deck out, it had clearly already been shuffled. Somebody must have really hated this deck to return it. The box is even dated 2010, so these are six year old cards!

Anyway, as for the cards themselves, this is another reason why this deck has me laughing: the box describes how Cartamundi is the "most experienced playing card company in the world," and also notes that the Limited Edition deck was manufactured specifically with maximum durability in mind, and that it's, "perfect for the novice player and even prefered by the most discriminating card handlers on the world." That's why it makes me laugh, because it somehow reminds me of this guy's review of Cardinal's Professional Texas Hold 'Em cards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3ergbQXT4E

I mean these cards have a stock that is even thinner and flimsier than Bicycle's stock since moving their factory to Kentucky . . . not really sure how Cartamundi believes that's "maximum durability." The box doesn't note any kind of finish, but it's rougher and more coarse than Bee's finish. The cards themselves are like almost the entire opposite of what Cartamundi says on the box.

That said, I do really like the two-colored back design as opposed to the single-colored back design of standard Ace decks you see in dollar stores; and because these Limited Edition cards are paper instead of plastic, the printing does look better, especially the court cards (which I mentioned in another thread, I really dislike about the Classic brand's plastic cards). I pretty much got the deck just for looks (and again, because of curiosity based on different reviews and thoughts I've seen of the deck), I don't think I'd use them very much for anything - with that thin and flimsy stock, I doubt they'd hold up in the long run.

Sorry for the bump, but I wanted to share that.

[Don Boyer]

I've seen the paper Ace decks.  They're your basic "dollar-store" quality decks, period.  Cartamundi doesn't make quality decks, at least none that I've ever found.  I have perhaps a half-dozen or more different decks from them - Aces, Star Wars, old Magic Castle decks - not a one is what I'd consider a quality deck.  Current-issue Bicycle Standards beat them.  I'll grant them that they're pretty good on the print quality, most of the time, but I've even spotted typographical errors on their decks - that's bad, lazy work.  It's a shame, because some of their packaging is actually quite unique - a shiny box doesn't make up for lousy cards inside, though.

BTW, the link in the first post that goes to Cartamundi's website is now dead.  Perhaps they've been watching us? 

[Wild Joker]

Apparently this is the link now:
http://cartamundiusa.com/card-products/retail/ace-brand

And, of course, this link confirms that the "off-brand" deck I got a Dollar General several years ago was, indeed, a Cartamundi deck:
http://cartamundiusa.com/card-products/retail/classic

Methinks Cartamundi perhaps practices a little perjury when selling their products, no? They say they're the most experienced playing card company in the world, but based on what I've seen from other what people have said about them (and heck, just from my own experiences with that dollar store deck I got), I don't think that's really the case.

I'll agree, Ace's box older box designs did used to be nice to look at (and I'll agree, the Limited Edition deck I picked up today is a really nice box design), but their current box designs? Not so much.


I see on Cartamundi's website they're also the ones responsible for the Eagle brand cards. While I've never handled an Eagle deck, the one place I've seen them is a local/regional grocery store chain called Ingle's, where they're usually found at check-out, alongside Bicycle.

[Don Boyer]

Apparently this is the link now:
http://cartamundiusa.com/card-products/retail/ace-brand

And, of course, this link confirms that the "off-brand" deck I got a Dollar General several years ago was, indeed, a Cartamundi deck:
http://cartamundiusa.com/card-products/retail/classic

Methinks Cartamundi perhaps practices a little perjury when selling their products, no? They say they're the most experienced playing card company in the world, but based on what I've seen from other what people have said about them (and heck, just from my own experiences with that dollar store deck I got), I don't think that's really the case.

I'll agree, Ace's box older box designs did used to be nice to look at (and I'll agree, the Limited Edition deck I picked up today is a really nice box design), but their current box designs? Not so much.


I see on Cartamundi's website they're also the ones responsible for the Eagle brand cards. While I've never handled an Eagle deck, the one place I've seen them is a local/regional grocery store chain called Ingle's, where they're usually found at check-out, alongside Bicycle.

It's no secret that Cartamundi's been making "Classic" brand playing cards - their logo is on the front of the box.

They also make Eagle - another brand that's "dollar store fodder" in terms of quality.

Actually, as far as experience, that unfortunately gets measured in time that the company's been actively operating.  While Cartamundi itself has only been around since 1970, it was formed as a joint venture between three companies with playing card experience stretching back 190 years, which I think is longer than any USPC subsidiary, and their printing experience goes back even further, to 1795.  It's entirely possible they're the most experienced playing card company that's still in operation today, even if you factor in that they probably had to cease production for the odd war here and there.  It's a shame they haven't learned anything from all that experience except how to turn out cheap-ass decks that sell for a buck and that I wouldn't even use as kindling to light a fire.

It's not the EXPERIENCE that's important, it's what you've LEARNED FROM IT.

It should come as no surprise that their big specialty in the US isn't playing cards as much as it is board games.  As of last year, Hasbro sold their last two manufacturing plants to Cartamundi and now pays them on a five-year contract to make their board games for them out of the plant in East Longmeadow, Massachusetts.  So if some of their playing cards feel an awful lot like the inexpensively-produced cards you find in many board games, that would be a potential reason why...  With ten plants and roughly 1,500 employees, they make USPC look positively tiny, though I'm guessing that an average-sized plant of theirs is probably comparable in size, capacity and number of employees to USPC.

[Wild Joker]

I mean these cards have a stock that is even thinner and flimsier than Bicycle's stock since moving their factory to Kentucky . . . not really sure how Cartamundi believes that's "maximum durability." The box doesn't note any kind of finish, but it's rougher and more coarse than Bee's finish. The cards themselves are like almost the entire opposite of what Cartamundi says on the box.

Just picked up a Hoyle deck and was actually surprised that the stock is virtually the same as the Ace deck I got: thin, flimsy, not durable, with a coarse finish - despite saying "plastic coated" on the box. I expected more from a USPC deck.

[Don Boyer]

I mean these cards have a stock that is even thinner and flimsier than Bicycle's stock since moving their factory to Kentucky . . . not really sure how Cartamundi believes that's "maximum durability." The box doesn't note any kind of finish, but it's rougher and more coarse than Bee's finish. The cards themselves are like almost the entire opposite of what Cartamundi says on the box.

Just picked up a Hoyle deck and was actually surprised that the stock is virtually the same as the Ace deck I got: thin, flimsy, not durable, with a coarse finish - despite saying "plastic coated" on the box. I expected more from a USPC deck.

It would depend on when the deck was made.

First of all, Hoyle is more of an "off-brand" for USPC - it's not one of the main brands they're promoting.  Compared to Bicycle and Bee, very little gets made under the Hoyle name.  They inherited the brand when they bought the company - and they bought the company likely because they found it easier than competing.  USPC's been buying out their competitors almost since their founding.  So as an off-brand, orphan brand, what have you, they don't put a lot of effort into it, preferring to promote the better-known brands of Bee and Bicycle.  Even Tally Ho gets the short end of the stick, despite being a company brand for many decades since their purchase of A. Dougherty and a once-popular national brand - they now consider it regional, the region being magic shops and New York City.

For a brief period of time, a little under a decade or so ago, USPC experimented with taking some of their lesser brands and having them manufactured by a Chinese subcontractor.  The deal didn't last long, perhaps two years or so, because the quality just wasn't what the company wanted.  The only USPC-branded deck that's still being made in China is Maverick, and that's largely because it's the cheapest deck the company sells - if they made it in the US, they almost certainly wouldn't be able to keep it profitable at the price point it typically sells at, which is a dollar a pack.  It's possible that the deck you have that's of inferior quality was part of the Chinese-made batch - it would pre-date the switch to Erlanger and it would also say "Made in China" on the box somewhere.

[Wild Joker]

So like Streamline then, a "step child" deck, I see. Well, that certainly would explain why the royalty did not look like USPC standard; certainly nowhere near as bad as Streamline's royalty (and at least Hoyle's pips are almost identical to USPC standard), but they do have a rather cartoonish look to them. But I wasn't aware that Hoyle wasn't an original USPC brand. Never seen Tally Ho firsthand, so I wouldn't know what that brand's like, but I hear a lot of good things about it, but mostly from magicians. Come to think of it, I think Vinny used a Tally Ho deck at one point in MY COUSIN VINNY.

I checked the box, this deck was printed in 2014, so it's a relatively recent one then.

[Don Boyer]

So like Streamline then, a "step child" deck, I see. Well, that certainly would explain why the royalty did not look like USPC standard; certainly nowhere near as bad as Streamline's royalty (and at least Hoyle's pips are almost identical to USPC standard), but they do have a rather cartoonish look to them. But I wasn't aware that Hoyle wasn't an original USPC brand. Never seen Tally Ho firsthand, so I wouldn't know what that brand's like, but I hear a lot of good things about it, but mostly from magicians. Come to think of it, I think Vinny used a Tally Ho deck at one point in MY COUSIN VINNY.

I checked the box, this deck was printed in 2014, so it's a relatively recent one then.

Hoyle was a division of Brown and Bigelow, which has changed hands a few times.  They were founded in St. Paul, MN in 1927.  USPC acquired the company, by then known as Hoyle Products, in 2001.  The biggest appearance of the Hoyle name these days is on licensed videogame software for playing card games on computers - USPC gave the license to Encore Software most recently, if I recall.  It was owned by Sierra Online for a while; Encore repackaged and republished the old SOL software, which is why some SOL game characters appear in early Encore releases of the games, including what is arguably their most famous one, Leisure Suit Larry, though I'm not certain he appears in the most recent releases.

Hoyle playing cards are still out there, still in the USPC catalog.  The standard Hoyle Shellbacks come in a variety of formats: poker with standard and jumbo indices, pinochle, bridge with super-jumbo indices, mini and two plastic poker decks, one standard and one clear.  There's also an oddball product released not too long ago - Hoyle Slice, a pair of half-width decks that take up the same space as a single poker-sized deck, made on paper and sold in a plastic case.  The company claims they're easy to shuffle - I'd beg to differ, just from looking at the design.

Tally Ho today are not much different in appearance on the faces from Bicycles or Bees - they use standard USPC faces.  Hoyle and Maverick decks have Hoyle faces.  All the old Arrco brands (Streamline, Stud, Arrco) and the Play-Right brand (a newer brand printed as a replacement for Studs, which are sold exclusively in Walgreens drugstores) use Arrco faces (another company acquired relatively recently by merger, back in 1987).  In fact, of those Arrco brands, only Streamline and Play-Right are still in print, and Play-Right is an exclusive product to one retail chain, though USPC has allowed third parties to place print orders for Arrco brand decks (Arrco and Arrco Club Tahoe) as "vintage reprints."

The "cartoonish" look of the Hoyle decks is just an updated version of standard playing card faces - but it was updated in the Art Deco era when the first decks were produced, so back then, it would have been considered stylish and modern in comparison to the older appearance of other deck faces of that period.  Nearly 90 years later, seen out of the context of their original release, they do seem a little more like cartoon images when compared to modern standard faces.