Durability

[junjie04]

I was on facebook yesterday and saw someone's status saying that the new Kentucky decks sucks, and it is not durable because it cannot fan. Is the ability to fanning the way to define durability? Whats your point of view?

[zaganh]

i think how durable it is means that after bending it it will remain straight and not warp much thats what i think anyway haha

[frostchew]

Durability covers a lot of aspects, eg fanning, springs, cuts.

For me, the overall durability of the deck is defined by its ability to hold its shape after prolonged heavy usage.

[Gunshy1]

I just don't understand people that say the KY decks suck. I have a deck of studds and tallys that i use while playing video games that i have been using for 8+ months and they still fan and hold shape well.

[NathanCanadas]

I agree with Frostchew. And the statement that Kentucky decks are less durable is completely false. After mid-2011, decks printed are even better quality than the red and blue-sealed ones.

[Don Boyer]

First, there was the Cincinnati decks.  People thought they were the bomb.  The reality is that their sheet-fed press sucked - hence the big deal a while ago about getting printed on the web press.


Then, there was the transition - the move to Erlanger and the shakedown phase of that operation.  There was some confusion, some complaints about quality, all justified.  The early Erlanger decks were a step down from the Cincinnati decks.  They were largely made in 2009 and 2010.


Then, the shakedown phase ended - Erlanger decks reached a point where they're now superior to the Cincinnati decks in terms of quality.


But, the final stage came - late last year, Erlanger was having finish issues with the Bicycle stock.  I think it was 325gsm back then, but whatever it was, it's now 300gsm.  The stock's a bit thinner than it used to be, still of great quality.  Thinner stocks, though, won't hold up as well for crimping and other stunts.


The Bicycle deck of today isn't a bad deck at all, but Bicycle was never the top of the line for USPC.  Tally Ho is now made on Aristocrat stock, a bit firmer than most Aristocrat decks.  Next firmer is the Bee standard, then the Bee Casino stock is the firmest - almost too firm for some.

[aceofhearts]

You can't really judge just from 1 deck, and also maybe the guy can't fan them right or have very high expectations. I agree that Now Ky decks are really great.

[Joker and the Thief]

Durability is basically how long a deck will last. 1 deck, for example is the white ghost, exceptionally durable.

[Don Boyer]

Durability is basically how long a deck will last. 1 deck, for example is the white ghost, exceptionally durable.

All of the early Ellusionist decks were durable, practically bulletproof!  They used a much thicker stock - that UV500 stuff.  I'm not sure what they're using now - it wouldn't surprise me to learn they're using Bee standard or even just a firm Aristocrat.  Actually, maybe not Bee - those tuck boxes get farmed out to third-party printers for USPC and it slows the whole process down by as much as two months.  I hear they're starting to tackle the task now, but it's still in the early stages yet.

[Joker and the Thief]

Durability is basically how long a deck will last. 1 deck, for example is the white ghost, exceptionally durable.

All of the early Ellusionist decks were durable, practically bulletproof!  They used a much thicker stock - that UV500 stuff.  I'm not sure what they're using now - it wouldn't surprise me to learn they're using Bee standard or even just a firm Aristocrat.  Actually, maybe not Bee - those tuck boxes get farmed out to third-party printers for USPC and it slows the whole process down by as much as two months.  I hear they're starting to tackle the task now, but it's still in the early stages yet.

Yeah Ellusionist should have kept the same stock and finishes, the transition from air cushion to magic was not necessary on some decks such as the ghost. My Erlanger air cushion ghost deck lasted over 1 year and is still kicking (fairly extensive use too), it'll still fan and do cuts well. But it's no longer up for elongated use because the stock is soft and the finish is worn down, due to a years worth of work

[Don Boyer]

Durability is basically how long a deck will last. 1 deck, for example is the white ghost, exceptionally durable.

All of the early Ellusionist decks were durable, practically bulletproof!  They used a much thicker stock - that UV500 stuff.  I'm not sure what they're using now - it wouldn't surprise me to learn they're using Bee standard or even just a firm Aristocrat.  Actually, maybe not Bee - those tuck boxes get farmed out to third-party printers for USPC and it slows the whole process down by as much as two months.  I hear they're starting to tackle the task now, but it's still in the early stages yet.

Yeah Ellusionist should have kept the same stock and finishes, the transition from air cushion to magic was not necessary on some decks such as the ghost. My Erlanger air cushion ghost deck lasted over 1 year and is still kicking (fairly extensive use too), it'll still fan and do cuts well. But it's no longer up for elongated use because the stock is soft and the finish is worn down, due to a years worth of work

With regular use - I mean REGULAR, like an hour or so a day regular - NO deck made of paper is expected to last a year!  Bee Casino is the toughest stock USPC uses and it won't last under those conditions.


Though I will grant that some people have reported that Magic Finish, while excellent at the start, doesn't last as long.  I've not had any trouble, but that's got a lot to do with the fact that I own way too many decks and therefore end up using any given deck maybe a few hours a YEAR...  Yeah, I'm slowing down on the collecting...

[Joker and the Thief]

Durability is basically how long a deck will last. 1 deck, for example is the white ghost, exceptionally durable.

All of the early Ellusionist decks were durable, practically bulletproof!  They used a much thicker stock - that UV500 stuff.  I'm not sure what they're using now - it wouldn't surprise me to learn they're using Bee standard or even just a firm Aristocrat.  Actually, maybe not Bee - those tuck boxes get farmed out to third-party printers for USPC and it slows the whole process down by as much as two months.  I hear they're starting to tackle the task now, but it's still in the early stages yet.

Yeah Ellusionist should have kept the same stock and finishes, the transition from air cushion to magic was not necessary on some decks such as the ghost. My Erlanger air cushion ghost deck lasted over 1 year and is still kicking (fairly extensive use too), it'll still fan and do cuts well. But it's no longer up for elongated use because the stock is soft and the finish is worn down, due to a years worth of work

With regular use - I mean REGULAR, like an hour or so a day regular - NO deck made of paper is expected to last a year!  Bee Casino is the toughest stock USPC uses and it won't last under those conditions.


Though I will grant that some people have reported that Magic Finish, while excellent at the start, doesn't last as long.  I've not had any trouble, but that's got a lot to do with the fact that I own way too many decks and therefore end up using any given deck maybe a few hours a YEAR...  Yeah, I'm slowing down on the collecting...

Well the ghost I used  for a period of, I dunno, 4-5 months, then started becoming weekly and now not at all. No your right that'd be impossibly durable. Mate, collecting must cost heaps!! Tally Ho are also very durable.

[Don Boyer]

Well the ghost I used  for a period of, I dunno, 4-5 months, then started becoming weekly and now not at all. No your right that'd be impossibly durable. Mate, collecting must cost heaps!! Tally Ho are also very durable.

I personally feel that Tally Ho has the best balance of durability and performance among all the "generally available" decks, ones that aren't limited editions and can be found outside of magic shops.


And yes, collecting isn't cheap. 

[Joshua Robinson]

Durability is basically how long a deck will last. 1 deck, for example is the white ghost, exceptionally durable.

All of the early Ellusionist decks were durable, practically bulletproof!  They used a much thicker stock - that UV500 stuff.  I'm not sure what they're using now - it wouldn't surprise me to learn they're using Bee standard or even just a firm Aristocrat.  Actually, maybe not Bee - those tuck boxes get farmed out to third-party printers for USPC and it slows the whole process down by as much as two months.  I hear they're starting to tackle the task now, but it's still in the early stages yet.

Yeah Ellusionist should have kept the same stock and finishes, the transition from air cushion to magic was not necessary on some decks such as the ghost. My Erlanger air cushion ghost deck lasted over 1 year and is still kicking (fairly extensive use too), it'll still fan and do cuts well. But it's no longer up for elongated use because the stock is soft and the finish is worn down, due to a years worth of work

With regular use - I mean REGULAR, like an hour or so a day regular - NO deck made of paper is expected to last a year!  Bee Casino is the toughest stock USPC uses and it won't last under those conditions.


Though I will grant that some people have reported that Magic Finish, while excellent at the start, doesn't last as long.  I've not had any trouble, but that's got a lot to do with the fact that I own way too many decks and therefore end up using any given deck maybe a few hours a YEAR...  Yeah, I'm slowing down on the collecting...

What you have said here Don is true. Magic finish is not a long lasting one. The White Arrcos I got from you, when I opened one. used for about a month and now it is starting to become very clumpy. The only way to fan it is with a pressure fan or a heavy handed fan

[Don Boyer]

What you have said here Don is true. Magic finish is not a long lasting one. The White Arrcos I got from you, when I opened one. used for about a month and now it is starting to become very clumpy. The only way to fan it is with a pressure fan or a heavy handed fan

I've heard a few things can help.  Storage in a cold, dry place may help.  A fine application of fanning powder might also improve performance.  Not using the same deck over and over for days at a time will help - switch off decks now and then.  I have decks that at my current rate of usage will be around well past the time I die...