USPCC - No more printing plates to be released.

[CBJ]

Robert over at http://www.pipsqueek.info wrote

"Did you get your printing plates for the Tendril deck? I hope so because the United States Playing Card company’s legal department says “No” to selling the printing plates to the decks creators. The First and last company to sell its printing plates to the public was Encarded. Which begs to question did The Grid get there plates secured for their backers before the new rule was passed. Not only were the printing plates a rare collectable due to their limited runs but now Tendril plates look to be the only ones to hit the market. For the lucky few that managed to get theirs, bravo, you’re now a part of history. "



http://pipsqueek.info/printing-plates-no-more/


I never picked any of them up.. I wonder if it's worth securing one now... hmmm

CBJ

[xela]

Man the USPCC fiddles with their contracts way too often, the last time I was filling mine out for the Harlequin, Printing Plates were available en masse. Not sure why they nixed this cash cow, but my guess is a fear of competitors getting them? After all I am sure their process is patented.

[CBJ]

Do you think other printing companies would be able to use these plates on their machines.. or get trade secrets off of it

CBJ

[4pm Designer]

This is true, they are no longer releasing them to the public. I would definitely agree with Alex, the USPCC definitely fiddles with their contracts way too much. The Grid will not have the printing plates released to us. Even though, the plates were included in the signed contract, the USPCC contacted us about 2 weeks ago and told us their legal department changed their minds. Assuming it was due to their fear of reprinting, I tried to negotiate something but to no avail. Legally I can fight the issue because the plates are included in my contract. However, Tiffany and the rest of the USPCC have been very kind. Surprisingly, the whole production experience hasnt been as smooth as one would expect from the worlds most popular playing card company.

The official reason given is, they are very sharp and can cause injury. Which is understandable considering it's a liability issue. Like everyone else I thought it was reprinting or trade secrets. However, it's just the fear someone will sue if they get a deep cut.

[xela]

This is true, they are no longer releasing them to the public. I would definitely agree with Alex, the USPCC definitely fiddles with their contracts way too much. The Grid will not have the printing plates released to us. Even though, the plates were included in the signed contract, the USPCC contacted us about 2 weeks ago and told us their legal department changed their minds. Assuming it was due to their fear of reprinting, I tried to negotiate something but to no avail. Legally I can fight the issue because the plates are included in my contract. However, Tiffany and the rest of the USPCC have been very kind. Surprisingly, the whole production experience hasnt been as smooth as one would expect from the worlds most popular playing card company.

The official reason given is, they are very sharp and can cause injury. Which is understandable considering it's a liability issue. Like everyone else I thought it was reprinting or trade secrets. However, it's just the fear someone will sue if they get a deep cut.

I've had my share of issues with USPC but for the most part they are very good at fixing their mistakes. They forgot to include uncut sheets in my contract, and when I asked them about it, they had them printed fairly quickly despite the fact that production for the Vortex was already over.

That said, their legal department is a bit of a nightmare. One thing I am glad about when it comes to not producing Harlequin is all the trouble they would most likely give me over the revamped Bicycle logo I made (they gave Russell some problems, didn't they?)

@CBJ: Considering the fact that I am sure their process is patented, no one who got a hold of the plates could use them the same way. What could happen is a modification of key patent features which still allow for outstanding quality without diving into legal battles. A good example of this would be when Sony was originally teamed up with Nintendo to push out what would become the Playstation. Nintendo has a patent over their directional pad on the controllers. After the partnership broke up, Sony simply modified bits and pieces of the Nintendo d-pad and released their own controller. So the idea and concepts are still stolen, but there is no patent infringement.

I guess they're thrilled that Paul cut up his printing plates.

[Paul Carpenter]

Oh my! Well this is some interesting news indeed. I must be one lucky dude to have the only ones out there. Lawyers, as is often the case, have to defend against our ridiculous litigious society and in the end mess it up for all.

Now I have to decide if I should continue selling any of those. I've got the back plate left and just a handful of the plate cards. I have to ponder that.

At any rate, I feel very special.

[SeanWhelan]

This blows for card designers as well as companies. These printing plates were a value to show what they have created. Very rare yet beautiful items. A shame they won't be released anymore : /

I hate to burst the bubble though, I think my deck might of been the last to be released. I have all 8 Galvanic printing plates sitting next to me and mine was released after the Tendril. Would should contact them to see who was the last person to get them. Would be interesting to find out since we're all collectors here.

[xela]

This blows for card designers as well as companies. These printing plates were a value to show what they have created. Very rare yet beautiful items. A shame they won't be released anymore : /

I hate to burst the bubble though, I think my deck might of been the last to be released. I have all 8 Galvanic printing plates sitting next to me and mine was released after the Tendril. Would should contact them to see who was the last person to get them. Would be interesting to find out since we're all collectors here.

Nice grab, Sean. I always planned on getting my Vortex plates when the funds allowed for them just to frame in my room, but it looks like that's not a possibility at the moment.

If there is anything I've learned in my dealings with USPC, it's that nothing they say is final.

I cannot think of a single term they had in their contracts that stayed stable. Prices for various perks change every month. Their minimum fluctuates from 1000-5000 constantly. Their uncut sheets went from "free" (a certain number of decks could be requested uncut at no charge) to $25 each. Printing plates were actually not available for a good while. Robert and I inquired about the plates a long time ago and got told no. Then I got told yes and opted out. They're back at no now.

Of course for folks making decks, this is both good news and bad news. The constantly changing contracts mean more versatility for designers. The only thing I wish they really would keep constant is the minimum run for decks. I wish 1,000 was allowed, but even 2,500 is good. 5,000 minimum is just overkill for "designer" decks not backed by the likes of E, T11, etc.

I guess we're lucky though. I've heard rumors of USPC trying to close down the customs department for almost a year now because of how inefficient it is compared to just printing 50,000 decks a month for a casino. Rumors are just rumors though, I wouldn't be surprised if this one is false (although the recent price hikes are likely a result of them trying to match profits with the casino printing).

[Don Boyer]

Alex - when did the price hike hit?

4pmD - that excuse about them being dangerous has got to be one of the biggest steaming piles to come out of the greater Cincinnati area since USPC was founded!  If that was the case, why wouldn't they take issue with their product (Bicycle Rider Backs) being used in a movie (Smokin' Aces) as a dangerous weapon (flung into an opponent's eye, nearly blinding him)?

Perhaps they should just rename the Customs Department as the Smoke and Mirrors Factory?  Nothing there is ever quite like what it seems.  They could give the NSA and the CIA a run for their money when it comes to confusion and obfuscation.

[Aaron]

4pmD - that excuse about them being dangerous has got to be one of the biggest steaming piles to come out of the greater Cincinnati area since USPC was founded!  If that was the case, why wouldn't they take issue with their product (Bicycle Rider Backs) being used in a movie (Smokin' Aces) as a dangerous weapon (flung into an opponent's eye, nearly blinding him)?

Cards are actually dangerous by themselves, I know from personal experience. Me and a buddy on the school bus were flinging them at each other one day and I took one in the eye. I had to go to the hospital and in the end had to wear an eye patch for 3 days.

[Don Boyer]

Cards are actually dangerous by themselves, I know from personal experience. Me and a buddy on the school bus were flinging them at each other one day and I took one in the eye. I had to go to the hospital and in the end had to wear an eye patch for 3 days.

So if I manage to smuggle a deck past the TSA, I could get 56 counts of carrying a concealed weapon onto a plane?  Come on!

Next it'll be paper cuts from rough-edged die cuts on the cards... 

[MSimonart]

I do agree that printing plates do look good and that for the designer of such deck it can be a very nice reminder, when years later you look at it. But I don't really get why people that are not specifically attached to the deck would want these. Well that's my humble opinion. It's the a bit the same as uncut sheets. But uncut sheets are I think maybe more understandable. These are the cards, just not cut yet. But they have they are the playing cards, so why not. But printing plates, yeah, they're just something I'd never be interested in. Still, unfortunate for deck designers to not be able to own these any more...

[Don Boyer]

I do agree that printing plates do look good and that for the designer of such deck it can be a very nice reminder, when years later you look at it. But I don't really get why people that are not specifically attached to the deck would want these. Well that's my humble opinion. It's the a bit the same as uncut sheets. But uncut sheets are I think maybe more understandable. These are the cards, just not cut yet. But they have they are the playing cards, so why not. But printing plates, yeah, they're just something I'd never be interested in. Still, unfortunate for deck designers to not be able to own these any more...

Collectors would be interested, because they are rare - even broken into individual card plates like Paul did for Tendril, each card plate is a one-of-a-kind and part of a very small group of card plates in existence.  Those are the kinds of things some hardcore collectors dream about in their sleep...

As far as "patented processes" and the like, unless USPC is buying custom-built equipment, it does likely conform to some kind of printing industry standard.  Even the lamination machines would be of a standard design, though the actual laminate formulae used could be industry secrets.  I'm inclined to doubt that they brew their own inks at USPC, though the precise color blends they make could be house secrets.  But machinery?  Custom print machines are insanely expensive and lock you into that technology permanently with no real chance of an upgrade unless you shell out some huge bucks for it or change machines.  They're not likely to widely advertise just what machines are being used, but the odds are that they are not the only company in the world using that same hardware.  It's highly unlikely that reprints would occur, but not impossible - and even if some third party did try reprinting a deck using the plates, they're not likely to get the precise colors and varnish just right without a lot of trial and error and one of those fancy (and very expensive) chemical-analysis machines you see on those forensics dramas all the time.

Think of it like this - if a printing press company was making USPC's hardware off 100% original specifications, imagine the vast sum of cash they'd have to toss into R&D just to get the prototypes made.  I can't see a budget-conscious company (particularly one that's a division of a conglomerate like Jarden) shelling out that kind of money to reinvent the wheel when there are plenty of awesome wheels available for so much less.

[NathanCanadas]

I find it disappointing that no more printing plates be printed. Perhaps T11 and D&D were jealous?
But they really were a beautiful additional touch. I hope they go back on their decision.

[Don Boyer]

I find it disappointing that no more printing plates be printed. Perhaps T11 and D&D were jealous?
But they really were a beautiful additional touch. I hope they go back on their decision.

You must know by now, Nate, that USPC changes their minds like the average person changes their underwear...

I'm neither disappointed nor appointed.  It's an interesting curiosity, sure, and I'm sure they're pretty cool in person, but I'm also sure I'll go on living a rich, full life without there being any plates or plate sections in my collection.