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Playing Cards - "Fact or Fiction?" + Links

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Playing Cards - "Fact or Fiction?" + Links
« on: October 27, 2011, 03:58:13 PM »
 

xela

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Without a doubt some of the most interesting details about how a deck of cards is made are obscured by uncertainty.
This thread is here to once and for all put a rest to some of the myths that circulate the community about cards. Have a myth you want debunked? Submit them to aethercards@gmail.com.

MYTH1 | Card production expenses are through the roof! FALSE
With the USPCC, production costs are reliant on so many variables that it will take decades to list them all. However, here are some basics that everyone should be aware of:

1. As of this post, Arrco faces cost significantly less - it costs more to use Bicycle faces, and even more to customize them.
2. Different stocks cost different amounts of money.
3. It actually costs extra to print under the Bicycle brand, but it can cost more to print without it if you choose to have custom face cards.
4. Metallic inks really are luxury! They cost significantly more per deck to use. Same goes for embossing and custom seals.
5. A huge chunk of spending of any good deck of cards is used on creating proofs/prototypes of the decks. Each prototype costs exponentially more than a deck of your standard cards. For example, the Vortex prototypes cost $250 each.
6. The more you print the cheaper it gets per deck! This one is pretty obvious, because quantity discounts apply to pretty much any business.

So as you can see, card production costs are only through the roof so long as you opt for high quality products. The higher quality you want, the more originality you create - it's very easy to drop over $10,000 on production. Likewise, for small businesses that want quality promotional items such as a deck of cards, it's also possible to spend half that for a simpler product with the USPCC.


MYTH2 | The reason decks aren't fully customized more often is because of legal issues! FALSE
More customization means more money spent, but it also means a longer development time. USPCC has all the obvious legal restrictions that center around copyright, but also allow for 100% custom decks to anyone that wants them.

MYTH3 | Clipart decks take under a week to develop, and are created for the sole purpose of ripping off collectors! TRUE
The unfortunate reality is that many "custom" decks being released now are made in just a few short hours, and don't use any real custom art. The purpose of these decks is to suck in anybody that is looking for a sweet, limited set of cards.

MYTH4 | The USPCC is responsible for all of the horrible decks we see! This is their doing! FALSE
The USPCC goes to great length to actually keep horrible decks from polluting our market. However, they are a client-oriented company and do what the client requests. If you see a horrible deck from them - it's not their fault. Blame the person that made the deck.

MYTH5 | Cards can be signed underneath the cellophane! FALSE
Decks are wrapped in cellophane in the production plants and then shipped out. There is no way to not damage the cellophane to get a signature underneath it.

MYTH6 | Q1 quality control is a real thing - it ensures that decks are printed without any huge mistakes! TRUE
Quality control is a huge must-have for any deck creator. Centered backs, smooth edges - all these things are the result of quality control. It works in a very simple way: all decks that don't meet X standard are chucked. That means it costs more money to print because the higher quality you demand, the more you end up chucking.

Here are some things quality control is NOT:

- Q1 is not a special machine made for those who have the money to print perfect decks.
- Q1 has nothing to do with how your cards handle with the exception that it ensures even edges.
- Q1 is not sheet-fed press vs. web-fed press. These two things have to do with the quantity of decks you're printing, not the quality.

MYTH7 | Web-press is far better for a deck than sheet-press! FALSE
The Web vs. Sheet battle has been going on for ages and it has actually been settled a while ago. The sheet-fed press at USPCC is not lower quality, and as of late many people have been arguing that sheet-fed cards have better quality-control standards. This is a myth I'll be investigating at a later date.

You can learn more about the Web Press and Sheet Press by clicking the respective links here.

MYTH8 | Ohio decks are always better than Kentucky decks. Quality has just gone down the drain lately! FALSE
It took a little while for the factory in Erlanger, Kentucky to begin printing high quality decks like its Ohio counterpart, but we are now at a point where Kentucky decks are actually superior in terms of quality control. For most of the higher-end decks, gone completely are rough and uneven edges. Backs are much more centered now as well, and the available stocks are optimized to last and are absolutely wonderful. In fact, unlike the old Ohio decks which had a nasty tendency to "bow" and create a U-shape in the deck (making flourishing a nightmare), Kentucky decks are known for how flat the cards are. No bowing, no contortions.

MYTH9 | The USPCC minimum run for a custom deck is now 5,000. TRUE
The number of decks that is a minimum requirement from the USPCC for printing is changing constantly. As of now, this minimum is 5,000 decks. Special deals are often arranged with the USPCC and you can print less but it costs significantly more to do so, and not as many options are available.

MYTH10 | The new "Standard Bicycles" are simply nowhere near as good as the old "Rider Backs" from Ohio! TRUE
The "Bicycle Standard" decks have a much lower quality control than their old counterparts. Riderbacks are still made in mass production with high standards for quality, but you aren't as likely to find them in your local department store anymore.

MYTH11 | The USPCC offers tons of different finishes! FALSE
Contrary to popular belief, the USPCC does not offer a large variety of finishes. Actually, there are only two kinds of coatings you can use on a deck of cards manufactured by the USPCC: Magic finish and Air Cushion finish. Cambric, Linoid, Linen, 909 Premium, Plastic Coated - these are just written on the box but either no longer exist (Linoid), or never existed in the first place (909 Premium). Unless you print a deck under the Bicycle brand, the USPCC actually allows you to write any made up finish name on the side of your box.

MYTH12 | The "finish" on a deck refers to the "dimpling" pattern pressed into the cards! FALSE
The finish on a deck of cards actually refers to the type of coating used on the cards in question. The dimpling has no real name, and a deck of cards either has the dimpling or does not. Cards that do not have the dimpling are commonly referred to as "smooth finish" despite the fact that the coating/finish applied can be Air-Cushion as well.



« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 12:03:51 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2011, 09:35:56 PM »
 

D_bag

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Is it true that tally ho is superior to bicycle cards in terms of spreading, stock ,and finish?

Everybody I know tells me tally hos are pretty godly but I never tried them so I dont know sir.

Or is it a myth?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 09:36:15 PM by D_bag »
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2011, 10:07:36 PM »
 

xela

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Is it true that tally ho is superior to bicycle cards in terms of spreading, stock ,and finish?

Everybody I know tells me tally hos are pretty godly but I never tried them so I dont know sir.

Or is it a myth?

The answer to that and more tomorrow night! Three more myths will be debunked.
Forum Founder.
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2011, 10:16:01 PM »
 

john

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Mythbusters for cards, i like, i like.

Myth: There are only 2 finishes from the USPCC (smooth and air cushion) and every other finish are just variants on the air cushion either by using a different stock or a coating.

"I got my people, watching the corners, letting me know where the bitches are." - Zimos
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2011, 02:36:11 AM »
 

D_bag

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Mythbusters for cards, i like, i like.


I like the idea too.

Another thing I like to know is:
Are Ohio cincinatti card stock really stiffer than the erlanger kentucky cards or are they the same stuff and our minds playing tricks on us?
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2011, 04:09:27 AM »
 

phantom1412

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Another thing I like to know is:
Are Ohio cincinatti card stock really stiffer than the erlanger kentucky cards or are they the same stuff and our minds playing tricks on us?

When they first moved to KY, the machine is new and not ready yet (Not warmed up maybe)
So, the very first lots of decks did sucks.

But for now, the quality of cards came back and maybe even better.
However I hate the colored joker in the new bike.
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2011, 10:58:06 AM »
 

loldudex2

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Speaking of Ohio vs. Kentucky The myth that Ohio bikes are much better then Kentucky decks.
I LIKE MAILBOXES!
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2011, 09:11:14 PM »
 

xela

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I totally forgot to update this with the fact that I added three more!
Forum Founder.
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2011, 04:06:40 AM »
 

phantom1412

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I'm confusing about the myth10

MYTH10 | The new "Standard Bicycles" are simply nowhere near as good as the old "Rider Backs" from Ohio! TRUE
The "Bicycle Standard" decks have a much lower quality control than their old counterparts. Riderbacks are still made in mass production with high standards for quality, but you aren't as likely to find them in your local department store anymore.

Is riderback still produced? Then where can I buy it?
Is the one at D&D shop riderback or standard back?
(By the way I know the back is the same but I wanna know about the box)
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2011, 11:28:30 PM »
 

xela

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If the box says "Standard" at the bottom, they are the not-so-good Rider Backs. If it simply says "Rider Back" at the bottom - you know you're getting the good ones.
Forum Founder.
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2011, 11:35:32 PM »
 

phantom1412

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If the box says "Standard" at the bottom, they are the not-so-good Rider Backs. If it simply says "Rider Back" at the bottom - you know you're getting the good ones.

I heard that the rider back (With the better looking box) is not produced anymore.
And form now on we have left with the standard back (with the ugly box).
Is that true? Or the rider back is still in production as well?
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2011, 11:53:54 PM »
 

Siegismyname

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I tink rider backs are still being produced. And standards are the ones with the perfect pips.
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 10:24:50 AM »
 

Mystery

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I tink rider backs are still being produced. And standards are the ones with the perfect pips.
Nope, Bicycle Rider Backs and no longer produced. :(
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2011, 02:43:29 PM »
 

John B.

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yea i find he riderbacks at some local stores that have had them forever, if anyone has a bunch your lucky, all mine were damage except one un-opened still in cellophane deck of rider backs.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2011, 02:46:14 PM »
 

Evan

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yea i find he riderbacks at some local stores that have had them forever, if anyone has a bunch your lucky, all mine were damage except one un-opened still in cellophane deck of rider backs.
My local magic shop just got a few bricks of the blue rider backs... but no red  :(
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2011, 02:47:34 PM »
 

John B.

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Lucky, I can not find blue only found red, hoping to look around at the dollar stores again soon and see what I can find. Wal-mart had one of each (one rider one standard) but I guess with no more riders they stoped.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2011, 03:48:50 PM »
 

xela

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There is a playing card store here that has hundreds if not thousand of them (hundreds on display, not sure how many are in the back).
Forum Founder.
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2011, 03:56:47 PM »
 

john

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There is a playing card store here that has hundreds if not thousand of them (hundreds on display, not sure how many are in the back).

And you didn't tell us the store, are you hiding something, do you really love bikes and were hiding your love for them this whole time. :)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 03:58:34 PM by JDS1337 »
"I got my people, watching the corners, letting me know where the bitches are." - Zimos
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2011, 03:57:51 PM »
 

xela

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And you didn't tell us the store, are you hiding something, do you really love bikes and were hiding your love for them this hole time. :)

It's called the Gambler's General Store.

http://www.gamblersgeneralstore.com/pages/playing_cards/24.php?list=0
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 03:58:32 PM by alex. »
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Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2011, 04:00:26 PM »
 

john

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It's called the Gambler's General Store.

http://www.gamblersgeneralstore.com/pages/playing_cards/24.php?list=0

I thought they only sold canceled casino cards, whenever i looked that's all they had.
"I got my people, watching the corners, letting me know where the bitches are." - Zimos
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2011, 07:50:54 PM »
 

Mystery

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I was actually wondering, why are Fact 1 - 8 posted twice?

As for MYTH6, it is still very possible that decks with mistakes slip through though, just not as much as with Q2 or Q3 (the latter one being Standard Bicycles and Mandolins).

MYTH7 isn't entirely true. Things have been sorted out a while ago as of that the decks from the sheet press aren't actually crap anymore (these decks used to last way short), but as of today web press is still considered to be the better and more consistent one of the two with notable differences in quality.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 07:52:22 PM by Mystery »
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2011, 10:36:37 PM »
 

John B.

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can i ship these here? i need to come to vegas, i want all those.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2011, 12:01:42 AM »
 

6insider9

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Mythbusters for cards, i like, i like.

Myth: There are only 2 finishes from the USPCC (smooth and air cushion) and every other finish are just variants on the air cushion either by using a different stock or a coating.

This is pretty much true. Another variant to go along with stock and coating is embossing. There are different levels of embossing.
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2011, 01:01:34 AM »
 

6insider9

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I'm confusing about the myth10

MYTH10 | The new "Standard Bicycles" are simply nowhere near as good as the old "Rider Backs" from Ohio! TRUE
The "Bicycle Standard" decks have a much lower quality control than their old counterparts. Riderbacks are still made in mass production with high standards for quality, but you aren't as likely to find them in your local department store anymore.

Is riderback still produced? Then where can I buy it?
Is the one at D&D shop riderback or standard back?
(By the way I know the back is the same but I wanna know about the box)

Let me shed some light on this. FALSE! The
quality control is no different. Yes there may
have been a few techinal hiccups going from
Cincinnati to Erlanger but it is all good now. And what your calling
"Rider Back" box is not being mass produced anymore.
The "Standard" box is simply an updated design using the
same cards as always. The word "Standard" only
refers to the "Standard Face Style" like the same way
"Jumbo" refers to the "Jumbo Face Style"
So the short ansewer is... Same cards with ugly box!
 

Re: Playing Cards - Fact or Fiction? Myths debunked here.
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2011, 08:35:52 AM »
 

John B.

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Let me shed some light on this. FALSE! The
quality control is no different. Yes there may
have been a few techinal hiccups going from
Cincinnati to Erlanger but it is all good now. And what your calling
"Rider Back" box is not being mass produced anymore.
The "Standard" box is simply an updated design using the
same cards as always. The word "Standard" only
refers to the "Standard Face Style" like the same way
"Jumbo" refers to the "Jumbo Face Style"
So the short ansewer is... Same cards with ugly box!

actually the riderback deck had more ink in the pips, and i think a little bigger if i was told right, standard is a cheaper version.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.