Bicycle Army Men (KS) - a "Successful" Failure

[chess]

Not much to elaborate on.  It was one of the first projects I backed and there hasn't even been a survey yet.  Meanwhile the Bohemia deck had multiple setbacks and I already have the deck in my hands.  Many people have been ignored or had their posts on facebook deleted.  It is mid February and I'm not sure what stage the cards are in.  This project has mostly been a negative experience for me.

[xela]

I doubt the cards went into production before the project was funded. My guess is that they'll be going to print soon, so there isn't much to update about.

"Things are moving right along though and my projected date of February still seems very attainable."

That's his last status report. It's February now, so you'll probably see an update this month or next. The USPCC is not reliable with their printing schedules. I was promised a print date of January and didn't get my deck until April or May.

[Russell CircleCityCards]

Lack of updates =/= lack of progress.

Similar to my project (and MANY others) he had to make a couple of small last minute changes which bumped him to the end of the line.  With ALL card projects this is the duldrums, the time between proofs and printing. Deck creators who actually do make posts during this time are usually filling it in with fluff and non-information.  Adam chooses not to waste your time with a non-update.

As for the no surveys... How many times can different creators say it. Waiting until the last minute saves many headaches due to people moving.  I was extremely clear in update #17... http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1017676492/quicksilver-playing-card-deck/posts/385841  I have still had to change over 100 addresses.

In the end, people want constant updates (when there isn't that much info) and even if you do update, only 1/4 of the backers read them.

[Strag]

Russell,

Whilst I think this is true of you guys, it's unfortunately not been true of other projects that have delayed and been non-responsive.  Given that the last "proper" update was December and these are supposed to ship this month, there obviously can be some cause for concern.  Would probably be a good idea for Adam to put out a status update just to ease concerns.  A tiny bit of communication can go a long way.

[vmagic]

Not sure what the concern is all about, if there's nothing to update on, then there's no need for an update. Also Adam seems to be reliable and did deliver on his original deck and Russell did give us a bit of an update here on things seeing as how they are virtually partners and all. So just relax and wait.

[chess]

Allure

This deck was funded December 7. It will be shipping out in March.  It would have been shipping this month but there was a printing error at USPCC.  Still, their gilded decks are ready to go but they are waiting for the regular decks to print.

Bohemia

This deck was funded November 5. It has already shipped in spite of 2 printing errors at USPCC.

I can post more examples but I will stick to those two.

Army Men

This deck was funded October 15.  Way before the other two.  As of right now the latest update is from December, I guess he deleted the "update" he made afterwards which wasn't much of an update.  Looking at December's update though we see this:

Hey Everyone! Just wanted to pop in a post a little update on me and on the progress of the Army Men deck.

As some of you may know my wife and I got married over the summer and we just went on our honeymoon and it was wonderful!  As for the Army Men the design process took a bit longer than anticipated and some changes did have to be made for them to be print ready.  Things are moving right along though and my projected date of February still seems very attainable. If anything happens that could possibly cause a delay I will be sure to let you all know.   Other than that we seem to be pretty much on schedule and things are going just fine.  As soon I start getting proofs in from USPCC I will post some pictures, that's really when things start getting exciting.
Thanks again for everyones support!

Adam

He has not told us why he is having delays like he said he would, and he hasn't posted any proofs like he said he would.  I do not know what stage this project is in and all inquiries by myself and others have been ignored or outright deleted. Just check out the comments and you will see other people are equally dissatisfied.

[Don Boyer]

Chess, I also backed this project, but I'm being a bit more patient about it.

And in the event I did have some questions, I'd probably be contacting Adam instead of posting here - have you tried his email contact at circlecitycards.com??

[chess]

The anger and frustration is quickly rising in the comments section of this project.  I don't know about the rest of you but my patience is just about done with this deck.  I will not be backing Adam's future projects and I will refrain from buying CCC's cards as well.  I recommend the rest of you do the same.  This is piss poor customer service and we shouldn't put up with it.  I'm not even mad anymore, just disappointed.

[vmagic]

To be fair he did send out an update today and he has been having some kind of legal issues with the deck which has prevented it from being printed. Just be patient people!

[chess]

Lets play "guess what Adam has done with our money"

I hope he invested it in bitcoins or something

[Loop Cuts]

Lets play "guess what Adam has done with our money"

I hope he invested it in bitcoins or something

OK Chess, I'll bite, lets play 

I think that my best guess is that due to a once over abundant amount of information hitting the forums on playing cards that people think they know it all now.  I bet that most people ( cough** cbj ) think they can just pull some strings and get people to turn on anyone in the industry when things don't go according to plan.  I'll bet that only 9% or less of this forum or others actually helped fund the deck.  I'd also bet that he is ignoring your stubborn ass comments because its better than fighting in the mud with trolls. 

I'll assume most of you don't know ( yeah, you don't ) that USPCC changed many policies due to the over exposure of so much info.  Many times in the past decks were side lined due to legal issues and that can really eat up some time on a printing schedule.  I've seen some pretty outlandish accusations on UC and other places about what Adam supposedly did with the money. 

With all that said, I've spoken to Russell in the past and I don't think for a second that he would lie to anyone about a projects status or about Adam.  You guys need to back off and give the man a chance to get things straight.  At this point its very safe to say that he could do better updating but I'm sure there is a reason for everything.  God only knows why he isn't keeping people informed but I am 100% sure that shit happens and that he could actually use some positive support.  He did deliver on a very nice deck in the past. 

Cheers Chess

[Don Boyer]

CHESS!  Look, I sympathize, since I invested in this project as well. But has it occurred to you that the cease-and-desist letter he received from the company-who-shall-not-be-named INCLUDED a restriction against providing updates until the legal matter was settled?

Just stop with the whining - it makes you look foolish and infantile.  Adam's probably blowing through thousands of HIS OWN CASH simply defending himself in this case, so for just a moment, put yourself in his shoes, consider what the hell he's dealing with, and GET OVER YOURSELF.  Hiring a lawyer and dealing with a lawsuit isn't exactly the same as partying on the Riviera or buying a luxury car (or buying bitcoins); it's more like having your molars pulled out through your ears without anesthetic...

Remember, you're not "buying a deck," you're investing in a company.  If investments never failed, the New York Stock Exchange would be a much different place from what it is now.  But real life isn't that cut and dried.  Shit happens every now and then with a Kickstarter project - it's not like making a purchase from a retailer.  If this bothers you, don't make any more investments.  If you want every deck you get to be a simple purchase transaction, delete Kickstarter from your bookmarks/favorites and just buy from retailers from now on.

THAT'S my guess for what Adam's done with our money!

[xela]

Thanks for the bitcoin comment, Chess. Made me laugh. (For those that don't know, bitcoin tanked recently)

Anyway, I don't understand why people think copyright issues are simple. It's very hard to resolve in most cases. What has Adam done with the money? Subtract 15% for fees + declined cards. Subtract 30% for taxes. Subtract any marketing costs. Subtract USPCC deposits, proofs, prototypes, etc. Subtract shipping supplies.

That's what he has spent money on so far.

The rest is probably sitting in his bank account, waiting for the okay from the USPCC legal team to print the deck.

Could he be better with updates? Yeah. Does a lack of updates mean anything when he is trying to get the Army Men (tm) legal team off his ass? No. There is no "news" in this kind of stuff except "yeah they still haven't lifted their cease and desist, soooo..."

[chess]

Turns out he spent it on his and his wife's student loans.  I was close though.

[Don Boyer]

Turns out he spent it on his and his wife's student loans.  I was close though.

How did you find out?  Is the info reliable?

[Paul Carpenter]

Turns out he spent it on his and his wife's student loans.  I was close though.

How did you find out?  Is the info reliable?

He posted a very lengthy explanatory update to backers. In short, he messed up and spent money, now can't complete the project. He kinda-sorta offered the option for refund, but only via a self addressed stamped envelope (which pretty much eliminates refunds for international people) and they have to be postmarked by July 1.

It is, needless to say, the biggest debacle in the card Kickstarters by a long shot. A shame.

[Don Boyer]

Turns out he spent it on his and his wife's student loans.  I was close though.

How did you find out?  Is the info reliable?

He posted a very lengthy explanatory update to backers. In short, he messed up and spent money, now can't complete the project. He kinda-sorta offered the option for refund, but only via a self addressed stamped envelope (which pretty much eliminates refunds for international people) and they have to be postmarked by July 1.

It is, needless to say, the biggest debacle in the card Kickstarters by a long shot. A shame.

I really need to check my mail more often...  And yes - the biggest.  I'm curious if there will be any fallout on Russell because of this.

EDIT: I just read the backer message.  Chess, you made it sound like he spent ALL of it on the student loans.  He tells it a bit differently, that he spent what he had expected would be profit from the project, not the whole amount.  I think he was a victim of circumstances as much as he was of his own actions - assuming everything he stated is true about the legal battle and all of that.  If that battle didn't take place, he would have had the deck made promptly and it's unlikely the project would have collapsed.  The increases in printing and postage also did him in.  But the idea of spending "profits" before the project is even completed was not such a great one.

[framegod]

For those who don't know, Adams update

Update #14 - For backers only · May 15, 2013 · 87 comments

First, let me start by apologizing for my delay in keeping you informed of the progress of this project. I know that some of you have been concerned that I was not going to follow through or offer refunds, but that is not how I do business. My first concern is always with my customer. I will be honest, that my lack of response was due to my inexperience in handling something of this magnitude and my uncertainty in how to proceed.

A series of unfortunate events and poor management has resulted in this project not coming to fruition. I hate to say this, I truly do. It saddens me; I really loved this deck and wanted it to happen. After months of waiting around to find if I could legally create the deck I was finally given permission that by changing the name, the font and the plastic army figures I could produce the deck. So I start running the numbers again with all the new and most up to date costs. What I find is that with shipping, production, packing material and add-ons the total cost would be just shy of what was actually raised after all the Amazon and Kickstarter fees. These rising production and shipping costs have no longer made this project viable. I will therefore, be offering refunds to all that pledged on this project.

It bears noting that some of the money was already spent. As there should have been a profit I took care of some student loan debt that my wife and I have both accumulated. Yes, that was a poor decision. I should have held on to all the money until the decks were produced and shipped. I’ve been brooding on this subject for a month and it eats at me constantly, I can’t sleep at night thinking about this. I’m not telling you this for your pity I just want you to know that I am not a bad person. I never set out to “scam” anyone. My mother backed this project, my friends backed this project, and my co-workers and in-laws backed this project. I am embarrassed and shamed for the things that have happened. I started with the best of intentions. I let you down. I let my mother down who spread the word about this project to all her friends. I let my father down whose company I work for and represent, I let Russell, the founder of Circle City Card Company, down as he put his reputation on the line to give me support. And again I let all of you down.

Refunds
Yes, you may receive a refund. I want to make this right and that means I will offer a refund to any of my backers. Please note that I will not be able to refund everyone’s hard earned money immediately I will have to pay it back bit by bit. Due to the way Amazon and Kickstarter operate there is no way to just click a refund button and have the money sent back to the backers. There may have been a way soon after the money was collected but at this point that is not an option. Kickstarter and Amazon will also not be refunding the fees charged to me. In order to receive a refund you must send a self-addressed stamped envelope to:

Army Deck Refund Request
PO Box 375
Whiteland, IN 46184

You must include your backer name used on Kickstarter, the amount you pledged and the self-addressed stamped envelope by July 1st 2013. Refunds will be processed in the order requests are received.

Other Notes
Honeymoon – Some have asked if all the money was spent while my wife and I were on our honeymoon. I assure you it was not. That trip was booked and paid for months before the Kickstarter campaign began with money that was received on our wedding day. The flight was paid for with frequent flyer miles and we stayed in youth hostels the whole trip. It was not the Grand Voyage some have described it to be.

Circle City Card Company – As I mentioned before Russell is the founder of this company. He helped me out as we’re both Indianapolis natives and I hurt him. I will no longer be involved with anything to do with the Circle City Card Company.

Final Thoughts
Again, I am deeply saddened for the way things turned out. I am also incredibly embarrassed for the way things have been managed. I will do all I can to make this right and dig myself out of this hole I’m in. I never wanted this to happen and I completely understand all your frustration.

Please accept my deepest and most sincere apology,

I want to thank all of you that believed in this design and supported me.

Adam

[S. Carey]

Should be banned from Kickstarter. Just because someone is a good designer doesn't mean they can run a business. Sad to see so many people screwed over on this project.

[BiggerDee]

I posted a lengthy "what if" statement over on UC when the update was posted a couple of days back, but I'm not convinced that, as he says, he just spent the "profit". Regardless, making backers send a SASE by the cutoff date in July for the chance to get a refund is another scam. If he has $10,000, and people only request $5,000 of that back, he will have the remainder to pocket, and be free and clear of the rest of the backers, in his mind.

[Don Boyer]

Should be banned from Kickstarter. Just because someone is a good designer doesn't mean they can run a business. Sad to see so many people screwed over on this project.

He actually did have one successful KS project prior to this, Bicycle Revision 1; the theme was an architect/engineer's blueprints.  On top of that, he had linked up with Russell Kercheval and his Circle City Card Company - Russ has release a handful of successful decks, either via KS, HOPC or independently.  There was no reason at the time to doubt his ability to deliver.

[Bill Collins]

It was suggested to be by a few of my backers, that this might be one of the reasons why my project on Kickstarter is struggling

[xela]

It was suggested to be by a few of my backers, that this might be one of the reasons why my project on Kickstarter is struggling

That's false. Certainly there are some people dissuaded from using KS as a result of something like this, but KS gains new members every day. There are bigger projects than Bicycle Army Men that flat out never deliver and just say "lol sorry I'm keeping all the money, peace." There was one recently in the iPod accessory scene, and yet those things still sell like hot cakes. Just recently Bicycle Federal 52 proved that quality card design can bring in the big bucks.

I can't be bothered to do an analysis of your project, but odds are yours isn't doing as well as it could is because of oversaturation in the market. I'm sure you're also not marketing it as well as you could, nor are you making contacts that could help you make it go viral.

A good design, even a great design, is not enough to succeed on KS. Especially these days, so much luck and marketing is involved it's crazy.


On the subject of Adam, I didn't see this coming. I totally get the delays, the lack of communication, and even a botched final outcome in his case.

Can someone explain why international backers can't get refunds? I don't know the cost of mailing an envelope over-seas.

[Bill Collins]

Alex your right, This is all new to me, as far as marketing and the right contacts that could help

[Don Boyer]

Can someone explain why international backers can't get refunds? I don't know the cost of mailing an envelope over-seas.

He wants them to send self-addressed stamped envelopes to him to make their refund claims.  Ever try buying a US stamp that isn't a philately specimen on the other side of the world?  You can't send an envelope in the US with a foreign stamp.