You are Here:
Let's hash this out: How to best release rare things...

Author (Read 4948 times)

Re: Let's hash this out: How to best release rare things...
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2012, 04:44:41 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Extraordinaire
  • *
  • 1,071
    Posts
  • Reputation: 74
  • Encarded makes custom playing cards.

  • Facebook:

  • Kickstarter:

  • Twitter:

  • YouTube:
It is true that no method will be fair for all people. This is unfortunately a fact. My goal as a producer of things is to make it as fair as possible for the largest number of people. Of course, when you have just a few dozen of something and hundreds, or thousands of people that might want that item, you are going to send up with disappointment.

My primary goal is to give collectors the fairest chance to get things and not allow the obvious eBay profiteers to suck up everything for their own gain, at the expense of everyone else. If I can do that, I'll be pretty happy and I think people will appreciate that effort.

Of the 3 methods above, I think that #1 would work best, but only for certain products. Extremely rare things need to be handled differently, but for items that might be available in the hundreds, bundling it in as a perk of buying X can be a good incentive.

Lottery or random chance, I think, will leave a bad taste for most people. If you went with the prize being "a chance to buy" you would end up with massive complication when someone "wins" but doesn't have the money to pay for the thing. If you go with charging people to enter and the prize being "the thing for free" then you need to very carefully work out how many entries you might need to cover costs, and if you don't get that you'd have to scramble for alternatives, leaving complication of refunds and upset people.

Bidding systems just encourage the eBay mindset and takes away from the overall goal of being a "store" and selling something, simply and in a straightforward fashion.

I'm still pondering this all. It's a tricky thing, to be sure. Just as we've seen from the meltdowns at T11 and TBC, getting it right takes some thought. :)
Paul Carpenter
Designer - http://encarded.com

Tendril Ascendant & Nightfall  /  Standards /  Chancellor, Zenith, Deco, Aurum, Tendril: Sold Out
 

Re: Let's hash this out: How to best release rare things...
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2012, 08:41:10 PM »
 

vmagic

  • Guest
For the record, in case this hasn't been mentioned, I think the way the Blue Crown released the Gold Crowns is definitely the way to go on anything limited edition.
 

Re: Let's hash this out: How to best release rare things...
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2012, 09:40:04 PM »
 

Aaron

  • Haven Citizen
  • *
  • 1,296
    Posts
  • Reputation: 64

  • Facebook:

  • Skype:

  • YouTube:
For the record, in case this hasn't been mentioned, I think the way the Blue Crown released the Gold Crowns is definitely the way to go on anything limited edition.
I agree that was awesome, you have to sign up to be in on it and everyoe has different times avoiding a crash and they can for exacally how many people will be logging on so there will be o crash.That is possibly the best way to go.
People say nothing's impossible, but I do nothing everyday.

Today I found something that reminded me of you. But don't worry I flushed and everything went back to normal.
 

Re: Let's hash this out: How to best release rare things...
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2012, 03:28:13 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:

Lottery or random chance, I think, will leave a bad taste for most people. If you went with the prize being "a chance to buy" you would end up with massive complication when someone "wins" but doesn't have the money to pay for the thing. If you go with charging people to enter and the prize being "the thing for free" then you need to very carefully work out how many entries you might need to cover costs, and if you don't get that you'd have to scramble for alternatives, leaving complication of refunds and upset people.

Well, just how expensive is it to produce these things?  Is it the kind of expense that could be used as a loss leader to bring in additional sales?  Because if you can, that's really a good way to both boost your deck sales while at the same time removing much of the eBay mindset and allowing people whose pockets aren't very deep or were for exigent, uncontrollable reasons unable to complete a purchase quickly enough (or at all) a shot at winning a VERY rare item.

For the record, in case this hasn't been mentioned, I think the way the Blue Crown released the Gold Crowns is definitely the way to go on anything limited edition.
I agree that was awesome, you have to sign up to be in on it and everyoe has different times avoiding a crash and they can for exacally how many people will be logging on so there will be o crash.That is possibly the best way to go.

Well, they could do that because they had hundreds, perhaps even thousands, of the item in question to be sold.  What happens when you only have twenty-five?  The windows would be insanely tiny, and it becomes again a case of the fastest click-n-buy wins.  Those Gold Crowns were still on the site hours later during my window, while these cases wouldn't last a minute.

C'mon, guys...  Who hasn't bought at least one lottery ticket when the jackpot gets high enough?  I suspect that the majority of winners didn't buy more than a handful of tickets - and because of the huge pool of ticket buyers they were in and the massive number of tickets sold, they still had far worse chances of winning that prize than if someone bought only a single deck for a single shot at winning a case.  But they still managed to win, despite the odds, for the simple reason that SOMEONE has to win (twenty-five "someones" in this case) in this type of drawing, and unless you obtain a very significant portion of all the chances available, your odds won't improve enough to make a great-enough statistical difference between buying a deck, a half-brick or a brick.

I'm going to try a little math on the fly here...

Let's assume that there's a drawing for the cases, which are presented for free to the winners.  There's 25 cases, and 5,000 potential entries (each being a deck of cards).  If the print run is 2,500, just double each of my conclusions regarding odds of winning.  I will further assume that the deck will be a sellout, and that the decks sold each represent a single chance of winning any of the twenty-five cases.

1 deck - 1:200
A half-brick - 1:33.33
A full brick - 1:16.67
Two bricks - 1:8.33

Translating those numbers into percentage values gives us:

1 deck - 0.5%
Half-brick - 3%
Full brick - 6%
Two bricks - 12%

These numbers are NOT massive game changers.  The guy buying two bricks and holding his breath that he'll win stands a chance of only less than one out of eight.  If a surgeon offered me an expensive, experimental surgery that only stood a 12% chance of success, I'd be VERY leery of taking that chance unless I faced certain death otherwise.  You'd need to buy EIGHT BRICKS to have just below a 50-50 chance, while somewhere between SIXTEEN and SEVENTEEN bricks would give you a near-certain chance.  Sure, a deep-pocketed person could go ahead and buy over two-hundred decks, but that's certain to be the exception rather than the rule, and that's a lot of paper to buy just for a near-solid chance of winning.  Even if by miracle they were discounted to merely $5 a pack, that's over $1,000.

And don't forget: this assumes that EVERY DECK sold will be part of the drawing.  Odds do improve if fewer people are in the pool to win a deck, but you'd still need to buy a sizable percentage of the decks sold if you wanted to insure victory, and the chances of someone having that much disposable income just to win an attractive plastic display case just aren't that high - and it still gives him only a single case if there's a stipulation of only one case per winner.  Someone buying two-hundred decks who wins once takes 199 other chances of him winning out of the running.  When you factor that in, the odds for small-quantity buyers improve and the one-deck buyer actually gets a fairly decent if long-shot chance of winning something.

tl:dr

In short, in a lottery-style drawing, no one is statistically "guaranteed" to win a thing unless they corner a significant chunk of the market for Aurum decks, giving even small purchases a fair chance.  To paraphrase from an old tagline from the New York Lottery, "all it takes is a deck and a dream..."
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Let's hash this out: How to best release rare things...
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2012, 09:03:07 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Extraordinaire
  • *
  • 1,071
    Posts
  • Reputation: 74
  • Encarded makes custom playing cards.

  • Facebook:

  • Kickstarter:

  • Twitter:

  • YouTube:
After a lot of thought, I came up with a system that I hope is as fair as can be. You can read the details here: http://encarded.com/index.php?id=40

Thanks for the feedback everyone!
Paul Carpenter
Designer - http://encarded.com

Tendril Ascendant & Nightfall  /  Standards /  Chancellor, Zenith, Deco, Aurum, Tendril: Sold Out
 

Re: Let's hash this out: How to best release rare things...
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2012, 10:53:51 PM »
 

sr15

  • Discourse Veteran
  • *
  • 255
    Posts
  • Reputation: 9
I think that seems like the best way to do it. Gives everyone basically an equal chance to get it.
 

Re: Let's hash this out: How to best release rare things...
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2012, 11:01:14 PM »
 

John B.

  • Don't you have work you should be doing? We are watching you.
  • Jack of Diamonds
  • *
  • 1,916
    Posts
  • Reputation: 49

  • YouTube:
How much would you sell them for those who win the chance to buy them from the lottery drawing from random.org?
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Let's hash this out: How to best release rare things...
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2012, 11:09:18 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Extraordinaire
  • *
  • 1,071
    Posts
  • Reputation: 74
  • Encarded makes custom playing cards.

  • Facebook:

  • Kickstarter:

  • Twitter:

  • YouTube:
Same price as normal. No advantage either way, just an opportunity for those that might have missed out in the store. That would seem the fairest way to handle it.
Paul Carpenter
Designer - http://encarded.com

Tendril Ascendant & Nightfall  /  Standards /  Chancellor, Zenith, Deco, Aurum, Tendril: Sold Out
 

Re: Let's hash this out: How to best release rare things...
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2012, 11:15:57 PM »
 

John B.

  • Don't you have work you should be doing? We are watching you.
  • Jack of Diamonds
  • *
  • 1,916
    Posts
  • Reputation: 49

  • YouTube:
ok, How much are you charging? Want to see if I could get it.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Let's hash this out: How to best release rare things...
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2012, 07:51:26 AM »
 

Paul Carpenter

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Extraordinaire
  • *
  • 1,071
    Posts
  • Reputation: 74
  • Encarded makes custom playing cards.

  • Facebook:

  • Kickstarter:

  • Twitter:

  • YouTube:
I'm still working on prices. I think that looking at things like the AIP bottles, or gold arcane lucite cases and such would give ballparks. Whenever you have anything that is far less than 100 available it gets a little tricky to set a fair price that won't have people putting them on eBay for 6x the value the next day.
Paul Carpenter
Designer - http://encarded.com

Tendril Ascendant & Nightfall  /  Standards /  Chancellor, Zenith, Deco, Aurum, Tendril: Sold Out
 

Re: Let's hash this out: How to best release rare things...
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2012, 09:57:48 PM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
After a lot of thought, I came up with a system that I hope is as fair as can be. You can read the details here: http://encarded.com/index.php?id=40

Thanks for the feedback everyone!


While the choice isn't perfect, it's probably one of the better options available given the circumstances.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/