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Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts

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Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« on: September 13, 2012, 02:39:25 PM »
 

Cipher Kai

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Hey guys,

It's Kai here again.  I've been working on the Medusa Kickstarter and I have a preliminiary draft up.  It's missing a few things still.  I'll add more card images.  Suggestions on what you would like to see would be helpful.  Also the rewards aren't finished yet.  I just have the basics there.  I'm looking at adding some special things.  One we're looking at is a pewter dealer marker (does it have to be as big as normal plastic ones?  cause $$$$ for pewter) and/or key chains.  We are a miniature casting company so we want to use some of our specialties.  It seems like the tendency of Kickstarter campaigns is to go crazy on the reward options but many of those get about 1-20 backers so I'm not sure how many I should ad.  I've been following the Kickstarter discussions on what works and not.  I'm considering framed art prints of various sizes.  For stretch goals I've been considering signed art prints ,4"x6", for all orders over 1 deck.  Things I'm NOT considering are embossed or metallic ink on the box as these make the decks double in price. 

Critique is welcome.

Link to preview: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1188790300/102523131?token=5d27c315

Thanks!
 

Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2012, 02:54:57 PM »
 

loldudex2

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This deck is such a piece of art. The kickstarter seems pretty good ($9 each though is kinda pricey) but I don't see why the custom aces are a stretch goal. I understand it is a lot of work, but I feel if you make all custom aces, it may help out your funding. When I think of stretch goals I think of seals, foil boxes, etc. other then that this seems like it will be very successful.
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Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2012, 10:53:52 PM »
 

billysac

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This deck is such a piece of art. The kickstarter seems pretty good ($9 each though is kinda pricey) but I don't see why the custom aces are a stretch goal. I understand it is a lot of work, but I feel if you make all custom aces, it may help out your funding. When I think of stretch goals I think of seals, foil boxes, etc. other then that this seems like it will be very successful.

I agree 100% about the aces; I would like to see them included from the get go instead of as a stretch goal.
Regardless, I'm a backer without a doubt.

Do you have any idea when you might consider launching the project?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 10:55:16 PM by billysac »
 

Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2012, 09:58:02 AM »
 

Evan

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I think it looks great! The deck is incredible and the kickstarter page is fine except that the price is a bit high in my opinion.
 

Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2012, 01:41:00 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I don't think the price is high when compared to other deck projects.  I would, however, look into really lowering the "early bird" pricing to entice a lot of investors quickly at the start and to give your project momentum out of the gate.

I think a pewter dealer's marker would NOT be a good match with this deck.  While it's a "traditional" deck in that it's an Anglo-Rouen design, this is not a deck you'll find gracing many poker tables.

But what I WOULD do is similar to what the Mechanic Deck's creator, Jimmy K., did for his deck.  He had "coins" crafted in two different-colored metals in half-dollar and Kennedy dollar sizes for a total "variety pack" of four styles.  These are EXCELLENT for a magician who uses coins in his routine as well as cards, and some collectors really go for them as well.  The key is finding a "low-noise" base metal from which to make them (meaning the coins make little to no noise when shifted together in a magician's palm).  You can coat the coins in pewter, copper, brass, etc. to save on the expense of a solid coin.  Additionally, a "worn" look is good for appearances, to make it similar to real currency, and a well-milled edge can assist magicians in performing some of the more difficult sleights.  Magnetic metals, not commonly found in many coins, are also a good item to include, even if it's just at the core - magicians sometimes use magnet rings to help manipulate coins.

As an added bonus, you can offer your company's services on the website to create coin-magic gaffs.  Shells, double-headers, etc.  If you want to go totally hog wild, get a pro coin performer to consult on the project for you.  It can become a product in its own right, getting "kickstarted" by your Kickstarter project.
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Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2012, 03:00:41 PM »
 

dee1orean

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I like the look of this project,
My main comment would be regarding your stretch goals 25k,35k and 45k? Not many deck projects i've seen bring in that level of funding,
Also refusing to offer embossing or metallic inks I think is a mistake as both are desirable for collectors.
Card clips are a big draw, especially those offered by Conjuring Creations, I'd love to see the head of Medusa engraved in one.
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Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2012, 12:05:50 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I like the look of this project,
My main comment would be regarding your stretch goals 25k,35k and 45k? Not many deck projects i've seen bring in that level of funding,
Also refusing to offer embossing or metallic inks I think is a mistake as both are desirable for collectors.
Card clips are a big draw, especially those offered by Conjuring Creations, I'd love to see the head of Medusa engraved in one.

It's not exactly easy getting Conjuring Creations Eco Clips these days.  I'm still waiting on them from the Tendril deck.  Last I heard was that the contractor that makes the clips can't meet the demand quickly enough.  There appear to be factors in the manufacturing process that result in a slow output.  They haven't even released their own clips, without deck branding on them - all their stock has gone to other people's KS projects so to date their total store output has been the forty prototype clips, half of which were not laminated (intentionally - it was a prototype, after all).

I have one of each and they're great clips, though the natural clip with no lamination clip is showing dirt and fading of the natural bamboo color.  I think Rob Butler dropped production on the unlaminated  ones in favor of laminated (as well as painted for KS/deck projects).

It's been a while since I heard back from Rob on the clips and the production process and progress, but Rob seems to have tossed a fit and isn't talking to a large number of the people here.
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Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2012, 05:36:16 PM »
 

dee1orean

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Really? I wasn't aware of these issues it's a real shame I ordered two of the prototypes one lacquered and one not I never received the unlacquered one and Rob promised to sort things out with me when he started production of the standard ones. I may be waiting some time LOL!
I also have the Tendril prototype which is awesome.
I hope Rob gets his head back in the game soon, as he has a brilliant disireable product.

My apologies to the OP for the off topic!
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Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2012, 01:27:04 PM »
 

Cipher Kai

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Thanks for the input.  I have lowered the cost from $9 to $8 on the early bird special since it started.  Did you mean $8 is still high?  The next lowest is $7 and with the margin that's pretty much giving them away with shipping single decks.  Since I'm allowing an almost unlimited number of decks at the early bird price that's kind of scary though it would be slightly better margins with multiple deck shipments. 

The coin idea is interesting.  We only cast in pewter so we are limited by that.  We could look into doing mutiple colors in a lacquer finish but that would be a new process for us too.  All our figurines are sold unassembled and unpainted.  Pewter does have a low noise.  We can cast with a pretty high degree of precision as our miniatures are extremely detailed at 30mm tall.  Don, do you mean the edges should have a champher on them? 

I haven't checked the price on metallic inks on the cards and I'm not sure it's a good fit.  For anything custom on the tuck boxes it's INSANELY expensive.  We're talking doubling the cost of the entire deck doing embossed or metallic ink +custom seal.  I honestly have no idea how other guys do it.  Custom 6 or 12 pack cases is something I'm looking into but would have to be done with another printer than USPCC because of the cost.  It's something we may be able to do on a short run with a packaging printer we use. 

Conjuring Creations did contact me when I first showed the previews.  It seems like they are extremely busy though so I doubt that will happen.  I've seen a couple metal card clips through outsourced manufacturers but I don't know if that's as attractive as the Eco Clips.

The stretch goals aren't final yet.  I've been having difficulty coming up with goals that I can give everyone that are meaningful and affordable.  I might do goals that are only available to orders over X decks or something.  Another possibility is doing 'unlocks' for items at certain funding levels that people can add on their order for additional cost.  This way we can make sure we have enough people that might be interested in purchasing an add on so we don't get killed by making like one or two of some expensive and time consuming special item.

Thanks again for all the advice.
 

Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2012, 11:05:06 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Thanks for the input.  I have lowered the cost from $9 to $8 on the early bird special since it started.  Did you mean $8 is still high?  The next lowest is $7 and with the margin that's pretty much giving them away with shipping single decks.  Since I'm allowing an almost unlimited number of decks at the early bird price that's kind of scary though it would be slightly better margins with multiple deck shipments.


The way the early bird works for most is that you limit it to a small number of people who jump on the bandwagon first.  For example, you can have multiple early bird tiers.  First twenty investors at $7/deck, next fifty at $8/deck, next hundred at $9/deck and the rest at $10 - naturally charging extra for international shipping.  And of course, people who buy in bulk outside of an early bird special would be offered discounts of some kind as incentive.


The bulk of your early birds will want two or three decks, I think.  The number of single-deck shipments is not high at all.  But, if you wanted to eliminate that risk factor, make all of your early birds (or at least most of them) for two-deck sets with a buy-in for extras.  For example, regular one-deck cost would be $9 or $10, with an early bird of perhaps $17 for two decks, pay $8 for each extra deck, limit X number of people.


Quote
The coin idea is interesting.  We only cast in pewter so we are limited by that.  We could look into doing mutiple colors in a lacquer finish but that would be a new process for us too.  All our figurines are sold unassembled and unpainted.  Pewter does have a low noise.  We can cast with a pretty high degree of precision as our miniatures are extremely detailed at 30mm tall.  Don, do you mean the edges should have a champher on them?


Well, if all you can do is pewter, that might not be enough for a coin magician.  Perhaps you can make key rings or something instead.  If I'm not mistaken, pewter is kind of soft and non-magnetic, right?  And if by "champher" you mean the zig-zag edge like the one found on freshly-minted quarters, then yes, that's what I mean.  In coin manufacture, it's milling.


Quote
I haven't checked the price on metallic inks on the cards and I'm not sure it's a good fit.  For anything custom on the tuck boxes it's INSANELY expensive.  We're talking doubling the cost of the entire deck doing embossed or metallic ink +custom seal.  I honestly have no idea how other guys do it.  Custom 6 or 12 pack cases is something I'm looking into but would have to be done with another printer than USPCC because of the cost.  It's something we may be able to do on a short run with a packaging printer we use.


Most deck designers save things like those fancy add-ons for overfunding goals, like if the deck exceeds the funding goal needed just to get it made by a certain percentage.  If you got, for example, 300% of the money you needed just to make the "standard" version of the deck, I'm sure at that point you could spring for a custom tuck box seal or a metallic ink box or something.  You don't necessarily have to make the cards themselves with metallics unless you really make a hefty overfunding target, like 400% or 500% or whatever still keeps it profitable for you.

Quote
Conjuring Creations did contact me when I first showed the previews.  It seems like they are extremely busy though so I doubt that will happen.  I've seen a couple metal card clips through outsourced manufacturers but I don't know if that's as attractive as the Eco Clips.


It's because they clips are not simply attractive, but very, very light, providing just enough pressure to keep the cards flat while at the same time giving edge protection that metal clips don't.  You'd think the bulk of the wood would be a turn-off, but I actually don't find it to be a hassle - an Eco-clipped deck fits in the back pocket of my jeans without any problems.  They're also kinder to embossed tuck boxes.  The metal cases will protect the cards well, but not the boxes.  One might also think that the glue would give way, but they're using something seriously industrial-grade to hold the pieces together.


Quote
The stretch goals aren't final yet.  I've been having difficulty coming up with goals that I can give everyone that are meaningful and affordable.  I might do goals that are only available to orders over X decks or something.  Another possibility is doing 'unlocks' for items at certain funding levels that people can add on their order for additional cost.  This way we can make sure we have enough people that might be interested in purchasing an add on so we don't get killed by making like one or two of some expensive and time consuming special item.

Thanks again for all the advice.


You really don't have to go too crazy with special items.  Uncut sheets, posters, t-shirts, art prints - that's the most likely and most desired special items for a deck project.  Some projects go way past that and it works for them, like the Bicycle War of Currents deck, but that's more the exception than the rule, I think.  Maybe something small like a key ring or a pendant on a silk string if you can make these cheaply enough in pewter - people can use keyrings and the pendants, if themed with the deck, would likely look beautiful.  A t-shirt of the card back and/or an Ace of Spades or one of the court cards would be great.  Paul Carpenter did some nice stuff with t-shirts for his Tendril campaign.


But don't forget the value of "value-added" overfunding goals - something that makes everyone get a better product.  Like I mentioned above, custom blah-blah added to the deck/box.


If you're going to do gaff cards, maybe you can do like Russ Kercheval did for the Americana deck and let your backers vote on their favorite.  You can also make a high-level reward that someone gets to design the concept for one (or both, if you do two) gaff cards.  Another cool high-level reward is to incorporate someone's likeness on a card - either a court card or one of the jokers.  Some also go for having their name mentioned somewhere as a "trustee" or "honored donor" or some such title, perhaps on the box somewhere if you aren't doing an ad card.


Just spitballing some ideas around - feel free to use or discard as desired.
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Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2012, 06:09:46 PM »
 

Cipher Kai

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I've added additional early backer specials.  I'll also unlock add ons of key chains, pendants, and dealer coins at the first stretch goal.  I've added a 'design your own Gaff card' level and I'm looking into costs of art prints to make a couple levels or add ons that would have signed art prints.  I'm considering an add on for a custom single deck wooden box with the Medusa head or logo engraved.  Does this sound interesting?  As far as foil embossing custom seal, etc.  I could possibly do that but it would make the retail deck like $15.00  I'd like to keep it in the $10-$12 range.  Those and other things like T-shirts, free 4x6 art prints for orders over $X would have to be additional goals at a higher level to make them viable. 

A question on signed decks.  Do people want the cellowrap signed or do we open it and sign the box itself?

 

Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2012, 06:52:23 PM »
 

loldudex2

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 Some people like the cello signed because they think without the cellophane it is the same as an opened deck, but if it has a seal, I think the majority will want the actual box signed.
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Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2012, 08:27:13 PM »
 

xela

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If you have a seal, sign it without the cello. The sharpie comes off cello really easy and of course, if the deck is ever damaged, it becomes essentially worthless since the cello has the signature and not the box.

Of course you can always sign it underneath the cello... :>
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Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2012, 07:42:46 PM »
 

Cipher Kai

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The Medusa Playing Card Decks is going live on Kickstarter at Noon PST on Friday 9/28. 

I want to say thank you and I really appreciate all the advice and support you guys have given as this project has developed.  It has really made this the best deck possible.

Please check it out once it goes live and even if you don't back it, I would really appreciate any Likes on Facebook and if you could let your friends who might be interested know about it.

I'll post a longer article on the Playing Card Plethora soon!
 

Re: Medusa Kickstarter preview - love to hear your thoughts
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2012, 01:02:09 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I've added additional early backer specials.  I'll also unlock add ons of key chains, pendants, and dealer coins at the first stretch goal.  I've added a 'design your own Gaff card' level and I'm looking into costs of art prints to make a couple levels or add ons that would have signed art prints.  I'm considering an add on for a custom single deck wooden box with the Medusa head or logo engraved.  Does this sound interesting?  As far as foil embossing custom seal, etc.  I could possibly do that but it would make the retail deck like $15.00  I'd like to keep it in the $10-$12 range.  Those and other things like T-shirts, free 4x6 art prints for orders over $X would have to be additional goals at a higher level to make them viable. 

A question on signed decks.  Do people want the cellowrap signed or do we open it and sign the box itself?

These sound like good rewards.

As far as foil - if it was that expensive, no one would every make a foil deck for fear of being priced out of the market!  But then again, USPC's prices and policies change about as often as I change the air in my lungs...

There's a way to offer foil, metallic inks, etc.  Make a high-enough overfunding goal that allows you to add foil without actually raising the cost of the individual decks - just throw a percentage of the overfunding cash at it and call it a day.  Alex did it for metallic ink on the Vortex deck - he pegged the goal at $30K, but while he hit that mark on paper, the reality is that he had enough declined charges to bring him back below $30K - plus he realized that the ink in his particular case would not be aesthetically pleasing.  Others have done the same thing, and sometimes they reach it, sometimes they don't - either way, it's OVERFUNDING, so when you reach that territory you've still hit your goal and are still making a profit (assuming you've crunched the numbers correctly).

For example - say that your goal is $10K for a project to build widgets.  Some of that is the cash needed to make widgets (let's say $6.5K) and the rest is profit for you.  You discover that to coat all your widgets in chrome would cost perhaps an additional $5K.  Assuming there are no tchotchkes for overfunding goals, you set an overfunding goal of $17.5K for all the widgets to be chrome-coated widgets.  You make the goal, widgets get made with chrome and you make more cash, perhaps to funnel into a future project to make your business an ongoing concern.  Overfund enough and you might even get to the point where you can simply MAKE your next deck and take profits from that to grow your own business, no longer being dependent on Kickstarter to make your next project.

If you do add tchotchkes, then you take your highest overfunding goal with tchotchkes and add the additional $7.5K to it, or you decide that maybe this particular tchotchke isn't as important, or that maybe you want to raise funds for chrome first, then worry about the tchotchkes.

Best of luck on the project - I'm looking forward to seeing it when it goes live.
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