Coterie of Prestidigitation Artists, from Zenneth Kok

[Don Boyer]

The following are quotes of some comments made on the Playing Card board.  The topic was "Coterie1902 launching 0n 31st Oct" and the authors were Zenneth (a.k.a. magician Zenneth Kok) and me, all from earlier today.


At 05:23:58 AM, Zenneth said:

Hey guys,

Here's an update on the Project C that I have been working on for awhile.

C stands for Coterie.

Project C is not just a deck of cards, rather it's a platform and organization primarily serving professional magicians, so we will be releasing quite some items for professional magicians and playing cards, of course.

For now, I guess I'll just share with you guys the part of C which most people here care about.

The first deck from C is a custom Bee and it's a limited edition of 5200 decks.

Casino grade Bee stock
Standard card faces
2 Gaff cards
2 identical jokers

Initially, the Coterie Bee was not meant to be a limited edition, until USPCC said the design of King of Hearts gaff card infringed their copyrights policy,
however, this was after we signed the contract and made deposit.

We were requested to change the design or accept their proposed design, but we insisted the original King of Hearts gaff to be printed as it has a least two effects built in, obviously their proposed design will not facilitate the effects, also, any delay in manufacturing will further delay our launch, which we cannot afford. As a matter of fact, we still haven't received uncut sheets from USPCC as we speak now, so I think that shows the necessity of insistence on printing the original design.

Finally, USPCC decided to make an exception and print the original King of Hearts Gaff, but they also made it clear that they will not print this design in the future.

Due to this change of situation, this edition of the Coterie Bee becomes a limited edition.

This deck will be available at our official website: Coterie1902.com
You can also follow us on twitter @Coterie1902

We will be launching on 31st this month at 19:02(UTC+8).

Let me know if you have any question about the Coterie Bee, I'll be more than happy to answer.

Cheers,
Zenneth


At 06:11:18AM, I replied:

Zenneth, thank you so very much for bringing this information to us!  It's greatly appreciated.

I'm actually in shock that they're trying to defend their King (and by extension their other court cards) like this.  They've been around long enough to be public domain - copyright law should not apply.  I think Bee is the oldest deck currently in print, going back to before Russell and Morgan became the US Playing Card Company.  Their legal department is getting more and more overzealous by the deck.

As time goes on, will you explain to us more about "the Coterie"?  The organization as well as the deck?

The 5,200-deck print run - is that 2,600 silver and 2,600 gold, or is it 5,200 of each color?

Will you be offering uncut sheets of this deck?

Any word on what the price will be?  Will it ship from Hong Kong alone, or also from the US and/or other countries?

For the benefit of the temporally-challenged, the release time of 19:02 in Hong Kong is:
11:02 Greenwich Mean Time (UTC)
7:02am US/Canada Eastern (DST still in effect)
3:02am US/Canada Pacific (ditto)

So if you Americans and Canadians want in on this deck, be prepared for an early morning wake-up on Halloween... 

I'm going to merge this with the original topic and the new title.


At 07:06:26AM, Zenneth said:

Don,

Thanks a lot for the reply.

About this gaff King of Hearts...accroding to USPCC:

the King of Hearts design infringed their copyrights policy, as they do not allow the alternation on card back design anymore(but you can do whatever you like with the card face).

You can change the color scheme of Diamond Back and get it printed, but not to the extent like we made with the KH gaff.

In this case, the KH gaff design changed their Bee diamond back pattern. USPCC said this kind of alternation will always be evaluted on a case by case basis, but even that,  it's not suggested.

What I don't understand is that why not they inform us during the process of evalution, instead of 2 days before the manufacture.

So, the 5200 decks of Coterie Bee is just one color, the gold version. With Bee the minimum quantity to print is 5000 instead of 2500.

Anyway, despite the limited quantity and a KH gaff that will never be able to print again, Coterie Bee playing cards will be available at a reasonable price of $8USD a deck.

All the decks will be ship out from Hong Kong, Coterie have made custom mailling box and packing bag, so everything will be packed in Hong Kong for shipment.

Though, aside from the custom packing and the incident with KH gaff, initially we do wanted to work with distributors from other countries for ths release, except China. Almot every China playing cards distributors undercut the price of each other, we have seen many new decks made available in China at the wholesale price during their price war, and we don't want to see the same with our deks, so for the chinese market we will do the retail on our own. I believe C will work more closely with overseas distributors on future releases.

We will be offering Uncut sheets, and here is yet another legendary story about the Coterie Bee uncut sheets:

We ordered 54 uncut sheets, 52 of these uncut sheets will be available, however, USPCC forgot to pull the sheets out from the machine before cutting them. So, they suggested to replace the uncut sheets and sending us some set box instead, of course we cannot accept the replacement, especially, knowing that the KH gaff will not be printed again.

USPCC had to make another run on the printing machine, and everytime they start the machine, at least 2500 sheets will be printed, that's why they have the minimum quantity of 2500 decks requirement for custom deck, accroding to them, they stop the machine prematurely, so that a little more than 1000 uncut sheets were printed, but we really don't intend to make more than 52 uncuts available,so they scraped all the remaining uncut sheets and ship us the 54.

Because of this situation, the uncut sheets were not shipped to us with the decks, it's still no the way and won't arrive Hong Kong until 10th Nov., so we can only expect to make the uncut sheets available by the end of next month. 

The full name of Coterie is "Coterie of Prestidigitation Artists", a registered organization that promotes the art of magic (card manipulation and cardistry as well), you can see it as a magic society at this point, I think we will show a clear idea of what it is by the events we will organize in the futue.

Coterie1902.com is the store/brand name of this society, in which CPA members creations will be released and published.   

Hope this helps,
Zenneth


At 11:57:51AM, I said:

Zenneth, you've been an absolute wealth of information here and I mean it sincerely that you've been fantastic in bringing it to us.  I know you can be a very busy man at times, like any professional magician, and the fact that you took the time out of your busy schedule to present us with all of this and in great detail is beyond what anyone could expect!

As usual, it's a sincere pleasure having you here - feel welcome at any time!

I know they've been trying hard to defend against forgeries.  I worked with Bill Schildman about two years ago tracking down counterfeit Bee decks here in America that were believed to have originated from somewhere in China.  He's also taken similar measures with the Bicycle Rider Back deck, refusing to allow any modifications to the back design, and no USPC deck using their faces can have an altered Joker or Ace of Spades face, either - though one is welcome to submit replacement faces that are similar without being too close to identical.

Technically, it's not copyright law that they're trying to use to protect their oldest and most valued brands such as Bicycle and Bee.  They're trying on the grounds of trademark law.  The designs used on both deck backs are too old under US and International Law to have copyright protection and are considered public domain; however, trademark law is a different story and a trademark can be defended for the life of the company.

Personally, I've never seen a gaffed Bee deck or card before other than a well-made stripper deck; not even one that's marked (which I'm assuming is now also no longer permitted, since they aren't for Rider Backs).  I can't wait to place my order!

What are the plans regarding the silver design you showed us earlier this year?  Will this be a future release or has the color been scrapped?

I wonder if USPC would permit you to create gaffed Fan Back cards... 

I'm going to quote a section of our comments to put into a new topic in the Magical Cardistry Bonanza board - your Coterie of Prestidigitation Artists sounds like it would be about a lot more than just playing cards and that would be a great place to discuss it.

Thank you, again!



As you can see, it made sense to post this here because it covers more than just a simple deck of cards.  Any thoughts on this new development?

[Siegismyname]

I am liking how some of the products come on the site only after you have selected the required products like the new fan back promotion and the entwined hearts refill. Overall the site is easy to maneuver. Still thinking if I should get some of the new Bees.

[Don Boyer]

I am liking how some of the products come on the site only after you have selected the required products like the new fan back promotion and the entwined hearts refill. Overall the site is easy to maneuver. Still thinking if I should get some of the new Bees.

First, they look great.


Second, this particular run was forced to be a limited edition due to alterations made to the card back on that King gaff.  Apparently, they're extending the "no changes" rule with the Bike Rider Backs to the Bee Diamond Backs - arguably the Bee decks are counterfeited far more often.


However, if you're light on cash, the deck will be reprinted - just without the same gaff card.


The idea of the Coterie sounds really cool - I'm looking forward to seeing what it develops into.

[jmrock]

[Post from UC]
Wow, and just like that I'm right back in the thick of things... Snow Owls, Platinum Seasons, & now this incredible deck... What else was I to do but order 12 decks... This is the reason I got into collecting and after so much foolishness being produced, it is so refreshing to have a deck like this hit the market... I haven't been this excited about a deck in quite some time and I'm so looking forward to the Silver/Platinum Version... Great Stuff...

[Don Boyer]

[Post from UC]
Wow, and just like that I'm right back in the thick of things... Snow Owls, Platinum Seasons, & now this incredible deck... What else was I to do but order 12 decks... This is the reason I got into collecting and after so much foolishness being produced, it is so refreshing to have a deck like this hit the market... I haven't been this excited about a deck in quite some time and I'm so looking forward to the Silver/Platinum Version... Great Stuff...

Glad to see you're back.  I miss the Playboy Stormtrooper Bunny...