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Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush

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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #75 on: January 06, 2013, 02:53:32 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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As for the Legends Deck, how did you guys get them early? Not being picky just curious. :))

I can't speak for Evan, but I was invited to try them.  I'd prefer not to go into details; I'd rather be known as the guy who can keep a secret than the guy who can't.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 02:54:33 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #76 on: January 06, 2013, 03:00:00 AM »
 

Joker and the Thief

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As for the Legends Deck, how did you guys get them early? Not being picky just curious. :))

I can't speak for Evan, but I was invited to try them.  I'd prefer not to go into details; I'd rather be known as the guy who can keep a secret than the guy who can't.

Fair enough :))
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #77 on: January 06, 2013, 07:51:01 AM »
 

anep21

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CARC will have them available before the end of this month.  If they follow their usual pattern, they will release them first to members at a discounted price, then to the public some weeks later

I hope they will release it soon. My membership will expired on the last day of January
 

Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #78 on: January 06, 2013, 08:23:27 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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CARC will have them available before the end of this month.  If they follow their usual pattern, they will release them first to members at a discounted price, then to the public some weeks later

I hope they will release it soon. My membership will expired on the last day of January

Barring the unforeseen, it looks like you'll be safe.  Just don't dawdle when they do come out!

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if this deck sold out to members before the public even got a crack at it - though I'm also thinking CARC won't be the only shop in town with them.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 08:24:18 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #79 on: January 06, 2013, 09:01:41 AM »
 

anep21

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I wouldn't be surprised one bit if this deck sold out to members before the public even got a crack at it - though I'm also thinking CARC won't be the only shop in town with them.

Did they say this will be limited? Btw Don, is it really that good?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 09:29:42 AM by anep21 »
 

Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #80 on: January 06, 2013, 12:32:02 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I wouldn't be surprised one bit if this deck sold out to members before the public even got a crack at it - though I'm also thinking CARC won't be the only shop in town with them.

Did they say this will be limited? Btw Don, is it really that good?

Every print run is limited, in the sense that USPC isn't cranking them out 24/7/365.  It's very possible that this will be limited, or that it will be reprinted - I couldn't say.  I'll ask, though.

Is it really that good?  No, I'm a bald-faced liar, and everything I say is a lie...

Seriously?  :))  If I said it, it's how I feel.  Not that I never change my mind - but when I do, I say so.
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #81 on: January 06, 2013, 08:53:27 PM »
 

Lara Krystle "Lane"

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YEAY! New DB to add to the DB collection! ^-^ .
I loved the White Lions a lot because of the design and durability. And since Don and Zenneth and Evan has put in a lot of positive notes on this deck specially it not being USPC. I'm really wanting to buy a few!

This is what I love about the forums! You get so many opinions for various people making life easier when figuring out whether you want to get the deck or not.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 08:53:55 PM by Lara Krystle "Lane" »
 

Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2013, 02:13:02 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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YEAY! New DB to add to the DB collection! ^-^ .
I loved the White Lions a lot because of the design and durability. And since Don and Zenneth and Evan has put in a lot of positive notes on this deck specially it not being USPC. I'm really wanting to buy a few!

This is what I love about the forums! You get so many opinions for various people making life easier when figuring out whether you want to get the deck or not.

Technically, it's not a DB deck, per se.  The deck is Lawrence Sullivan's - he's a prominent magician in Hong Kong.  The design comes from Mark Stutzman, the same guy who's designed all of the Blaine decks.  And, at least initially if not exclusively, they're being offered through CARC, courtesy of its Executive Director, Bill Kalush, and a fellow Board of Directors member, David Blaine.  I think it has more in common with a product on CARC's site like the Pr1me Decks than it does with the Erdnase Bees - something they had a hand in, but didn't entirely produce in-house as a CARC-branded product.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 02:14:34 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #83 on: January 07, 2013, 08:59:11 PM »
 

DrianAbara

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YEAY! New DB to add to the DB collection! ^-^ .
I loved the White Lions a lot because of the design and durability. And since Don and Zenneth and Evan has put in a lot of positive notes on this deck specially it not being USPC. I'm really wanting to buy a few!

This is what I love about the forums! You get so many opinions for various people making life easier when figuring out whether you want to get the deck or not.
I'll be surprised if they're more durable than the White Lions. But then again I've seen some people say that the Silver Split Spades are more durable than the WLs, and I was shocked at this because my decks still handle like a dream, so smooth. I have a deck of Coterie Bee playing cards that I use, and they don't last as long as the White Lions when I play with them for a while, even though they're newer, (Sorry Zenneth) I'd get a brick of White Lions if I had the money  ;D Although the King of Hearts gaff makes up for it in the Coterie Deck  :D
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #84 on: January 07, 2013, 09:13:26 PM »
 

Lara Krystle "Lane"

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@Don - My head is going in circles really. But okay. YEAY! A L.S. deck! to add to the card collection :)

@Drian - unfortunately I don't own a silver SS.
Bees are one ofthe more durable decks I admit but I also don't have a coterie deck.

But I really like the Legends deck. (now gotta bug the boyfriend to get me one of each mwahahha)
 

Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #85 on: January 08, 2013, 02:11:44 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I'll be surprised if they're more durable than the White Lions. But then again I've seen some people say that the Silver Split Spades are more durable than the WLs, and I was shocked at this because my decks still handle like a dream, so smooth. I have a deck of Coterie Bee playing cards that I use, and they don't last as long as the White Lions when I play with them for a while, even though they're newer, (Sorry Zenneth) I'd get a brick of White Lions if I had the money  ;D Although the King of Hearts gaff makes up for it in the Coterie Deck  :D

Imagine something that's not just durable like the White Lions - but also THINNER.

I'm torture-testing a red pack now - I call it the "Coldstone test".  My desk at work was made with artificial stone surfaces polished smooth as glass.  It tends to be on the chilly side here in winter, and I've been known to put a deck down on the desk - or even a half-finished solitaire game - to find many of the cards bending up at the sides because the surface was too cold.  Even in summer, the air conditioning chills the room and the stone just sucks that cold right in, making it cool to the touch.

A good, well-made deck, stacked and placed on this desk, will hardly bend - perhaps the top card of the stack and that's it.  Most of the decks I buy - yes, even from the big custom outfits - will bend significantly; the first handful of cards bend up.  I left a pack of Legends out for about two-and-a-half hours (most decks being bending in less the five MINUTES); only the top card on a stack of 54 bent up.

I have only one deck that's survived this test without bending at all.  A pack of American-made late-model Streamlines from Kentucky.  Not one card bent.  Interesting, when you think about it.  Now if it had a better finish...

BTW: hang on to that KH Coterie Bee card.  They'll never print it again.  Not unless USPC Legal undergoes surgery to get that stick out of its collective asses...  Since the deck's unique art is well past the copyright date, they're trying to defend it as a trademark, but in order to do that, they can't "dilute" the trademark by allowing it to be altered.  It's why you won't see new Rider Back gaffs that alter the back design, Ace of Spades or Joker.  It's the same reason why Mandolin Backs and Maiden Backs were created.  Those designs are quite young and will remain under copyright for at least 75 years after the creator of the design dies - or longer if they extend copyright law yet again.  They can be very easily confused with Rider Backs - you can even use old Rider Back gaffs with them or use new gaffs in that design with Rider Backs without spectators noticing the difference - but they're different enough to be unique designs and were specifically create to allow altered backs.  And while you can't alter the trademarked Jokers and AoS that USPC makes, you can just as easily replace them with a unique design of your own in a custom deck, letting you alter it any way you see fit for gaff work.

And why does copyright law keep extending the length of time a copyright lasts?  Because if they didn't, Mickey Mouse's first movie appearance, "Steamboat Willie", would be a public domain work, making it difficult for the Disney Company to profit from it when anyone can copy and sell it or make things based on it.  That would put a version of Mickey Mouse into the public domain as well!  Most companies that own aging intellectual property push the boundaries further and further back, totally perverting what copyright law was meant for.

And what was it meant for?  It was meant for its creator to have a chance to profit from his original idea, but then to become part of the public trust of ideas from which new ideas and things can be created.  If I recall, the first copyright law only lasted for twenty years after the work was created - meaning in most cases the work would become public within the creator's lifetime.  But once companies started to hold copyrights and those companies got older, they wanted to own them lock, stock and barrel.  Now, not only will the copyright outlive the creator, it will also outlive the culture in which it was created, since practically no one alive at the time it was created will still be alive, either, and never allowing the copyrighted material to sprout new ideas unless the copyright owner gets to keep some share of them, if not the whole thing.  There's no contemporary "public trust" any longer.  Today, if a young author publishes a book today at age 25 and lives a long healthy life of 100 years (a conservative estimate, since projections indicate that his lifespan will be extended to 120-150 or more due to new medical technologies), that book's copyright won't expire until the year 2163...and that still assumes the companies like Disney don't succeed in pushing the boundaries even further into the future.


But I really like the Legends deck. (now gotta bug the boyfriend to get me one of each mwahahha)

It will come in blue, red - and GREEN!
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #86 on: January 08, 2013, 04:13:01 AM »
 

agera94

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Do we need to be a member of CARC to be able to get these?
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #87 on: January 08, 2013, 04:34:55 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Do we need to be a member of CARC to be able to get these?

With almost anything CARC sells, it's available to members first at a discounted price, then it becomes available to the general public if there's any left.  I don't see any reason why they'd deviate from that course of action.  It's not entirely impossible that they'll open it to the public and members all at once, but I've never seen them do that before.  It's also possible that the deck will be available from other retail sources.  Of those two options, the latter is the more likely.

tl;dr: maybe, at first.
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #88 on: January 08, 2013, 06:44:52 AM »
 

agera94

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Ok cheers for that Don! If the first option is what will happen, then I'm going to need to find someone who can get me a few decks   ;) *nudge*
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #89 on: January 08, 2013, 10:22:47 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Ok cheers for that Don! If the first option is what will happen, then I'm going to need to find someone who can get me a few decks   ;) *nudge*

Uh, bro - I'm NOT a member.  Not that I don't want to be, but things cost money.
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #90 on: January 10, 2013, 09:59:36 PM »
 

sr15

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bahhhhh I want these freakin decks now. Any update on a potential release date?
 

Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #91 on: January 11, 2013, 06:59:14 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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bahhhhh I want these freakin decks now. Any update on a potential release date?

"By the end of this month" is the best update available now.  Man, you guys are chomping at the bit for this one...  :))

If I knew the release date, don't you think I'd be posting it by now?  Trust me, someone somewhere will discover the release date and you'll see it here, fast as lightning.
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2013, 08:34:47 AM »
 

therealmackay

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Has anyone seen a green deck??

I really think this will be a great release! Ill be on the look out for some as soon as they are released!

 

Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #93 on: January 11, 2013, 09:51:40 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Has anyone seen a green deck??

I really think this will be a great release! Ill be on the look out for some as soon as they are released!

I could be mistaken, but I think they only made prototypes (that's what Lawrence is calling them) of the red and blue.  Green will come with the regular production run.
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #94 on: January 12, 2013, 09:03:24 AM »
 

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@ Lara, Yes, I can testify for the quality and design of Legends, the quality is superb, very durable, hand feel is similar to Pr1me, most importantly, I have never seen so many clever ideas build in 1 deck, magicians are going to love them! You will be amazed by the price too, it will definitely become a super fast seller. I consider Legends to be a game changer, because I honestly believe the release of Legends will make a lot of designers switch to this new manufacturer that Lawrence is using.

@ Drian Well.. I am glad to learn that you are happy with the extra value that gaff card provides...am very proud of it too, for so many good magic effects are possible with just 1 card...but I still think Coterie Bee is at least as durable as White Lions, if not more... ;)

@ Don, too bad USPCC refused to print that KH gaff anymore, otherwise KH Gaff refills will be available as an item at Coterie.

Lawrence gave me all three decks: Blue, Red and Green before my trip to Toronto last month, he used metallic ink on the Green deck,
though, not sure Green deck will be more expensive than the other two colors.

Coterie will be make them available for pre-order next week. 
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #95 on: January 12, 2013, 04:42:01 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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@ Lara, Yes, I can testify for the quality and design of Legends, the quality is superb, very durable, hand feel is similar to Pr1me, most importantly, I have never seen so many clever ideas build in 1 deck, magicians are going to love them! You will be amazed by the price too, it will definitely become a super fast seller. I consider Legends to be a game changer, because I honestly believe the release of Legends will make a lot of designers switch to this new manufacturer that Lawrence is using.

@ Drian Well.. I am glad to learn that you are happy with the extra value that gaff card provides...am very proud of it too, for so many good magic effects are possible with just 1 card...but I still think Coterie Bee is at least as durable as White Lions, if not more... ;)

@ Don, too bad USPCC refused to print that KH gaff anymore, otherwise KH Gaff refills will be available as an item at Coterie.

Lawrence gave me all three decks: Blue, Red and Green before my trip to Toronto last month, he used metallic ink on the Green deck,
though, not sure Green deck will be more expensive than the other two colors.

Coterie will be make them available for pre-order next week.

Awesome - thanks for the inside tip!

I know, judging from what I've seen and heard, that Zenneth doesn't exaggerate when he says this could be a potential game changer for people looking to create new playing card designs.

Zenneth - it's not IMPOSSIBLE to have that back made elsewhere.  The trademarks they're trying to defend are arguably indefensible due to dilution, and there's no existing copyright.  All the designs are public domain because of how old they are and what current copyright law states.  It's an issue you'd have to discuss with a lawyer, and you'd have to be willing to endure the inevitable legal complications, however.
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #96 on: January 12, 2013, 06:50:56 PM »
 

DrianAbara

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@ Lara, Yes, I can testify for the quality and design of Legends, the quality is superb, very durable, hand feel is similar to Pr1me, most importantly, I have never seen so many clever ideas build in 1 deck, magicians are going to love them! You will be amazed by the price too, it will definitely become a super fast seller. I consider Legends to be a game changer, because I honestly believe the release of Legends will make a lot of designers switch to this new manufacturer that Lawrence is using.

@ Drian Well.. I am glad to learn that you are happy with the extra value that gaff card provides...am very proud of it too, for so many good magic effects are possible with just 1 card...but I still think Coterie Bee is at least as durable as White Lions, if not more... ;)

@ Don, too bad USPCC refused to print that KH gaff anymore, otherwise KH Gaff refills will be available as an item at Coterie.

Lawrence gave me all three decks: Blue, Red and Green before my trip to Toronto last month, he used metallic ink on the Green deck,
though, not sure Green deck will be more expensive than the other two colors.

Coterie will be make them available for pre-order next week.

Awesome - thanks for the inside tip!

I know, judging from what I've seen and heard, that Zenneth doesn't exaggerate when he says this could be a potential game changer for people looking to create new playing card designs.

Zenneth - it's not IMPOSSIBLE to have that back made elsewhere.  The trademarks they're trying to defend are arguably indefensible due to dilution, and there's no existing copyright.  All the designs are public domain because of how old they are and what current copyright law states.  It's an issue you'd have to discuss with a lawyer, and you'd have to be willing to endure the inevitable legal complications, however.
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #97 on: January 12, 2013, 07:10:16 PM »
 

sr15

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if nothing else, I'd like to see this deck somewhat force USPCC's hand into developing higher quality cards. Right now it seems like they're the only method to producing any type of deck, and some increased competition in the custom deck market would be great. I wouldn't really bank on that but one can always hope.
 

Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #98 on: January 12, 2013, 11:37:29 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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if nothing else, I'd like to see this deck somewhat force USPCC's hand into developing higher quality cards. Right now it seems like they're the only method to producing any type of deck, and some increased competition in the custom deck market would be great. I wouldn't really bank on that but one can always hope.

There's a good handful of other manufacturers out there, but USPC is the market's 800-pound gorilla (at least in the US, and in Europe through their Fournier subsidiary).

It might not force USPC's hand at all - but it might draw some business from them.  The thing is, though, with all their mass-produced decks and casino business, they could easily shutter the entire Custom Department and not lose a wink of sleep over it as regards their bottom line.  It's literally just a drop in the bucket for them.  Maybe more like a drop in a large swimming pool...

There's a number of benefits to using USPC, but there's also a number of serious drawbacks.  Among the many problems are legal issues regarding their no-longer-copyrighted trademarks, scheduling problems, defects in manufacturing caused not by accidents but by sheer carelessness and lack of attention to what has been contracted for the job, standards and practices that change with the blowing of the wind and a near-total lack of research and development.  Perhaps one or two of those problems could be dealt with, but take all of that and it gives one pause.

I mean no offense when I say this, but there are times when I hear stories of what some designers had to endure and I being to wonder if any three of the board members are named Moe, Larry and Curly.  We're talking about the company whose casino business work is so secure, but that allowed marked playing cards into the 2011 WSOP - it was later learned that someone involved in the design department was bribed by two of the players.

But anyway, back on topic - knowing that Coterie1902.com will be carrying them is good news.  It means that if CARC does an exclusivity deal for their members, there will be another source from which to get the decks.
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Re: Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush
« Reply #99 on: January 13, 2013, 12:52:02 AM »
 

hecrob

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"Coterie will carry them too"

Which is good and bad, because of the extremely high price of their cards (and their shipping), they will probably be really expensive.

I might say, probably as high as the coterie bees were.

For me (I live in México) its bad news.

I can only hope that maybe the price is not that bad (maybe 4.95 + shipping per deck) or the CARC handles them in affordable deals (1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 12, 16 and 24 would be good options).

I just hope i can get at least 12 decks.

Im eagerly waiting for the pre-release to actually "release" lol
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