Legends Deck, coming Jan 2013 from David Blaine and Bill Kalush

[S.C.]

Hearts are found split in the embers (not sure yet)

Hearts: top and bottom flames have thin baselines.

I think these two are connected maybe. Embers r coal from a dying fire, so I assume the base of th top and bottom flame represents th coal from th flames and as they r on either side, they're split. That's my take on it anyway

good catch  It makes perfect sense, one of the clues refers to the binary for the values but nothing about the suites. Being that don figured it all out at once I completely overlooked the possibility of another clue equating to the suite of the cards.
...now what does the last clue mean!!!!

•Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

I've done some research on the subject and from the looks of it a common legend is that a koi fish swam up a waterfall and was transformed into a golden dragon. that being said the dragon holding a sphere is actually a symbol for "a pearl of wisdom". I can't seem to apply any of this to the deck but maybe this will help someone else in figuring it out.

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

Many Chinese believed the dragon chased, the sun. Many drawings show this as a "flaming ball". Over the years, the sun changed color from a fiery ball to a silver pearl. This is known as the "night shining pearl" or the huoh chuh, "fire pearl".

The link between dragons and the pearl is told in a legend about Chi Liang, the Marquis of Sui, who was a Minister of State.  One day Chi Liang was out walking and he found a wounded dragon, he administered a simple medicine and saved its life.

Sometime later, he saw the dragon with a pearl in its mouth. The dragon said "I am the son of His Majesty the Dragon, and I am in debt to you for saving my life, and I have brought this pearl to thank you for your aid."

Of course it doesn't have to be Chinese in nature.  The "Worm" encountered by King Arthur's knight Peredur had a stone in its tail that had the ability to turn everything it touched to gold. The Vedic dragon Vritra hid the sun. The Caribs people of Dominica believed in a dragon with a diamond stone on its head, that some thought was an eye. Uncegila, was a dragon in mythology of the Brulé Sioux that had a cold heart made of flashing red crystal.  And scores of other dragons around the world ate, buried, or held similar "round things."

But... I doubt any of that helps solve the puzzle.

[Nurul]

•Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

I don't think this actually has anything to do with th actual deck. Kinda like th Irish motto doesn't have to do with th deck, more to do with th history behind th "Sullivan" family name. It's like opening a fortune cookie and finding words of wisdom, I think this is what that statement is. Th story of th koi swimming and leaping to th top of th yellow river symbolises that you should aim high and keep going and you will succeed.

[Allan]

There are two fish in the middle of the card back design in between the LSL symbol. Not sure if those fish are Koi specifically though. Their tails look a bit like a waterfall and between the dragons on either side of the LSL to the right and left is a small circle that may represent a pearl. There are other small design elements incorporated into the back design that remind me of waterfalls as well.

Personally I love this deck. The look of the deck is very nice -- at least the card back and tuck case design as well as the jokers and AoS -- the faces are just ok but not among my favorites. I tend to prefer smaller pips and I'd have preferred the same design of dragons and fire-water elements to have been included more on the courts. All in all I do like the look of the deck very much. What takes this to another level for me is the feel and all of the interesting magic oriented features. And this deck is tough! It holds up to a heavy workout for me. I do tend to abuse my decks and I almost always have one in my hands whenever I watch TV or if I'm commuting (assuming I'm not the driver of course ) I've used one of these decks daily over the past two weeks since receiving my bricks and it still looks good and works well. I see only the slightest signs of wear. Often by this time other decks are done, the edges all chipped and ratty, the corners bent up, and I'll already have put a bend across the middle to where there is a visible white cracked line through the middle on the backs. But not with these!

The faro is the only thing I am finding difficult with this deck. Thanks Don for the tip on the direction to faro.  That has helped a lot although I do still find it more challenging than some of my other favorite decks. Looks like I need to work more on my faro technique.

My three favorite decks that I've handled in the latest batch of releases since this past November are these Legends, Dominion by De'vo, and Blaine's Silver Split Spades. The Dominion has a very nice feel, produces stunning fans and textures at different angles and spreads, and I love the looks you can get given all those different cover cards he incorporated into the deck. Blaine's SSS also has a great feel and seems very magical with how the metallic silver ink just vanishes at certain angles. The Legends and SSS feel very different from each other but I find them both to really take a beating and still feel and perform great. The Legends are snappy, thin, and very sturdy and maintain a really nice glassy slipperiness to them that stays right there in that Goldilocks zone -- everything is always just right. The SSS stock feels very luxurious and the more I use it the softer it and more pliable it feels. It's response is so smooth to pressure... it seems to embody that bend but never break kind of philosophy.  They both stand up to a lot of use and abuse but just seem to get better instead of wearing out or showing damage. If the Legends are like polished glass then the SSS are like warm butter.  8^)

Cheers,

Allan

[agera94]

Can confirm that my deck now faros like almost like butter; still a tad bit of resistance. Overall it's continuing to improve the more I use it.

[Don Boyer]

Yes I've found faroing mine bottom up works wonderfully and I almost always get a 26:26 faro doing it this way!

If a faro shuffle is anything less than a perfect interleaving of 26 cards on each side, it's simply a weave shuffle.  A faro is a variety of weave shuffle in the first place - all faros are weave shuffles.  Imperfect faros aren't faros at all, since by definition it's only a faro if it's a perfect weave shuffle.

•Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

I don't think this actually has anything to do with th actual deck. Kinda like th Irish motto doesn't have to do with th deck, more to do with th history behind th "Sullivan" family name. It's like opening a fortune cookie and finding words of wisdom, I think this is what that statement is. Th story of th koi swimming and leaping to th top of th yellow river symbolises that you should aim high and keep going and you will succeed.

Actually, those lines aren't some kinds of allegories, family mottoes or legendary references - they're all clues about hidden features of the deck, of which I've never seen so many in a single deck before.  Make it an invisible stripper Mirage deck and it would be the only deck any magician would ever need! 

You guys are overthinking it with the koi/dragon references in history.  Just look at the deck, and possibly the box, and sooner or later someone's going to crack the clue and find out what it means.

Often by this time other decks are done, the edges all chipped and ratty, the corners bent up, and I'll already have put a bend across the middle to where there is a visible white cracked line through the middle on the backs. But not with these!

The faro is the only thing I am finding difficult with this deck. Thanks Don for the tip on the direction to faro.  That has helped a lot although I do still find it more challenging than some of my other favorite decks. Looks like I need to work more on my faro technique.

First of all, bro - you REALLY torture your cards!  Consider getting a Kevlar deck! 

Regarding the faro direction - you should always GENTLY test a new deck when making a weave shuffle so you know the cut direction.  Most decks are cut "face up" when pressed through the die.  The traditional style is the "face down" cut - casinos still insist on getting face-down-cut decks.  Card pros like Richard Turner insist on it - the three decks he's had a hand in designing all had traditionally-cut cards.  It not only allows for easy face-down faros, but control when shuffling is also improved, which helps a LOT if you're attempting things like a table faro - probably the most difficult move a card man can execute, table faros are perfect interweaves on a table-shuffled deck.  There's an advanced video on the technique for sale at T11 - haven't picked it up yet since it's likely beyond my current skill level.

[Michael]

Yes I've found faroing mine bottom up works wonderfully and I almost always get a 26:26 faro doing it this way!

If a faro shuffle is anything less than a perfect interleaving of 26 cards on each side, it's simply a weave shuffle.  A faro is a variety of weave shuffle in the first place - all faros are weave shuffles.  Imperfect faros aren't faros at all, since by definition it's only a faro if it's a perfect weave shuffle.

Point taken; I stand corrected. I guess I looked over that small detail. Regardless, I have found that after being broken in just a little, these decks weave shuffle (and specifically faro) very nicely.

[digipunk]

I will get these decks tomorrow simply because so many people here discussing them

I just ordered a set from our online auction website. 2 weeks ago I saw they're there, but none of them had been sold until I ordered the first set. Legends decks are not popular here in Taiwan, I believe it's because there have been many newly released decks involving dragons in these 2 years, such as Bicycle red/blue/golden (western) dragon decks, Eric Duan's Tetralogy series, and the DD chinatowns.

[Gunshy1]

ill be honest... getting sick of waiting for these. shoulda waited and got them from carc.

[Don Boyer]

ill be honest... getting sick of waiting for these. shoulda waited and got them from carc.

If you ordered from Coterie1902, you should contact them immediately.  I received mine from them maybe two weeks ago.

EDIT:  Let's review again what we know about the hints.

One way to amaze is found on the tip of a wing
We know there's a one-way mark on the tips of the dragons' wings.  We ALSO know that this mark is reversed on the four aces.  It's less of a one-way mark, more of a fast way to find the aces, unless you flip the aces around relative to the rest of the deck.

Riffle to stoke the flames of fire
We know that the deck fails a riffle test, revealing a marking system hidden in the flames on the dragons' backs.

In the heart of a blind man, the eight is king
We know about the very subtly embossed 8 and diamond on the back of the tuck box.

Dragons reveal smoke and rubies
We know that the "reveal joker" not only shows what appears to be a two of clubs in the dragon's hand, but that the smoke from its snout has the addition of the word "ruby" just above the smoke as it appears in the non-reveal joker.

Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall
We're still a bit stumped on this.  I suspect that it could actually be a reference to the fine/bold indices on each card.  The one thing I'm thinking of is what these two relationship phrases have in common.  "Pearl is to dragon" and "Koi is to waterfall" - it could be a reference to something small compared to something big, it could be a reference to an object and something that protects/guards the object...  We need to think more about that relationship and what the elements mean to each other.

Hearts are found split in the embers
Another reference to the marking system - the suits are in the "embers" of the flames that reveal the values, with a heart represented by fine lines replacing the thick ones at the base of the 1st and 4th flames counting from the bottom up - they're found "split", and they're the only suit that's split in that manner.  Diamonds have no fine lines, clubs are the bottom two "embers" and spades are the top two.

What language do computers understand?
The third reference to the marking system.  The code in the flames to read the card values is binary, with the smallest digit at the bottom flame and each larger digit one flame higher.  Aces are 0001 in binary (1 in decimal); jacks are 1011 (11), queens are 1100 (12) and kings are 1101 (13).

An Lámh Fhoisteanach Abú
All we know about this is that it's the Sullivan/O'Sullivan family motto in Irish/Gaelic, which translates to "The Steady Hand to Victory".  So, if I hold my hand still during a poker game, does that mean that I'll always win if I'm using this deck? 

Anybody have some new ideas regarding the two (red) unexplained clues?

[Gunshy1]

well shoot. and here i was thinking i was just being patience for international shipping. Thanks for the info Don.

[Nurul]

All we know about this is that it's the Sullivan/O'Sullivan family motto in Irish/Gaelic, which translates to "The Steady Hand to Victory".  So, if I hold my hand still during a poker game, does that mean that I'll always win if I'm using this deck? 

It's th Sullivan coat of arms which is displayed on th front of th tuck box. I'll upload an image.

As u can c, it's got th 2 dragons, snake, wild boar? And steed (or deer)

[digipunk]

Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

@Don, actually I agree with brownmagician's opinion. They are simply two 4-character Chinese idioms and don't seem to have any direct/indirect relationship to each other, according to my knowledge. Dragons like to chase (or play with) pearls, and carps have to leap over the Dragon's Gate so that they can become dragons (i.e, challenge and success).

[Ben K]

well shoot. and here i was thinking i was just being patience for international shipping. Thanks for the info Don.

@Gunshy, Like Don and others I also received my order about two weeks ago. Definitely something up. Best of luck with it.

@Don, thank you for compiling a list. I was getting ready to spend some time to scroll the thread for all the answers. Seeing the list already there is magic. Pun intended.



Pearl is to dragon as koi is to waterfall. Maybe the reversed wing tips on the aces have something to do with this and are considered a separate secret.

The steady hand to victory. Could this be the pre-arranged deck order? In other words faro shuffle and deal a great hand.

[hecrob]

Wait what!? All of you already received your orders!?!?!?

Mine shipped on february 8 but i havent been able to track it yet...

WTH!

:/

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

Wait what!? All of you already received your orders!?!?!?

I cheated, I ordered mine from eBay

[Gunshy1]

Literally about an hour after posting that I hadn't received them I was leaving for work and the mail man dropped them off at my door. So if others are stil waiting I'd wait till mid next week before freaking out

[The Quadfather]

Has someone deciphered the stack yet? I would really like to know what it is so I can learn how to use it. I've never learnt how to use stacks before.

[Don Boyer]

It's th Sullivan coat of arms which is displayed on th front of th tuck box. I'll upload an image.

As u can c, it's got th 2 dragons, snake, wild boar? And steed (or deer)

Actually, it's called a stag.  The box front is a modified version of the coat of arms, with the shield changed to a spade motif.  I'd wager that the snake in that image is wrapped around a sword, just as it is on the tuck box, though I can't tell from the image's low resolution.

Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

@Don, actually I agree with brownmagician's opinion. They are simply two 4-character Chinese idioms and don't seem to have any direct/indirect relationship to each other, according to my knowledge. Dragons like to chase (or play with) pearls, and carps have to leap over the Dragon's Gate so that they can become dragons (i.e, challenge and success).

But the one flaw with that idea would be that all of the lines have a clue as to a secret feature of the deck.  It has to mean something.

Has someone deciphered the stack yet? I would really like to know what it is so I can learn how to use it. I've never learnt how to use stacks before.

While I'm not very knowledgable about stacks, the likeliest stack used is the Tamariz/Mnemonica stack, altered to have the AoS on the front of the deck.  It's what David Blaine uses in his decks.  You can look it up online - Juan Tamariz wrote a book on it that sells for around $60 new.

[DelMagic]

I don't know the Tamariz stack so I can't confirm this, but I remember someone reported that it is one faro away from the Tamariz stack. Perhaps someone who knows can check this out.

[S.C.]

I don't know the Tamariz stack so I can't confirm this, but I remember someone reported that it is one faro away from the Tamariz stack. Perhaps someone who knows can check this out.

I'm not sure if anyone cares  but i thought i would document the
order the cards they came in when i opened the pack. I did this for
myself but thought I would share In case we figure out the stack we
can use this as reference for the original.

I also couldn't help myself I need to shuffle these things before i lose it.

listed from face up position starting at the top card
AS,4H,7D,4C,9D,6C,QS,QD,9C,4D,4S,10H,JC,10S,JD,5C,3H,KD,10C,8S,JH,KC,5S,8H,3D,2S,5H,6D,3C,2H,AH,
10D,7C,JS,AC,7H,AD,7S,KH,8C,KS,8D,2C,5D,6H,3S,2D,9H,6S,QC,QH,9S,J,J

Hope this is useful to someone other than me.

The steady hand to victory. Could this be the pre-arranged deck order?
In other words faro shuffle and deal a great hand.

Has someone deciphered the stack yet? I would really like to know what
it is so I can learn how to use it. I've never learnt how to use
stacks before.

While I'm not very knowledgable about stacks, the likeliest stack used
is the Tamariz/Mnemonica stack, altered to have the AoS on the front
of the deck.  It's what David Blaine uses in his decks.  You can look
it up online - Juan Tamariz wrote a book on it that sells for around
$60 new.

someone beat me to it.  . I pulled Mnemonica out of my library and worked it out, It is one faro to the Tamariz stack.

I got the idea from the other posts quoted above but alas i was too late.anyway I think that's the clue about the steady hand.

I also want to apologize, I had switched two cards in my previous post about the order. I went back and edited it but i also included it above for reference.

[Don Boyer]

someone beat me to it.  . I pulled Mnemonica out of my library and worked it out, It is one faro to the Tamariz stack.

I got the idea from the other posts quoted above but alas i was too late.anyway I think that's the clue about the steady hand.

I also want to apologize, I had switched two cards in my previous post about the order. I went back and edited it but i also included it above for reference.

So assuming you're correct on this, which you probably are, that leaves just the one unsolved clue:

Pearl is to dragon as Koi is to waterfall

On the card backs, the image has dragons, pearls, koi - but I couldn't spot a waterfall.

[digipunk]

Just got mine and handled for... about 30 seconds and it's enough for me to say the Legends deck is identical to the White Moth/Myth in all respects (stock, finish/coating, handling, etc) except the design. Having been playing with White Moth for months, I should be very familiar with the handling of the Legends.

@Don, I really appreciate your spirit of research and contribution to the playing card community.

*EDIT: and yes, they are traditionally cut but difficult to do faro shuffle straight out the box. If someone want to practice table faro, I would suggest using other decks. Table faro is considered one of the most difficult sleights, using this deck will only discourage you and make you feel less confident (and hurt the cards).

[Don Boyer]

Just got mine and handled for... about 30 seconds and it's enough for me to say the Legends deck is identical to the White Moth/Myth in all respects (stock, finish/coating, handling, etc) except the design. Having been playing with White Moth for months, I should be very familiar with the handling of the Legends.

@Don, I really appreciate your spirit of research and contribution to the playing card community.

*EDIT: and yes, they are traditionally cut but difficult to do faro shuffle straight out the box. If someone want to practice table faro, I would suggest using other decks. Table faro is considered one of the most difficult sleights, using this deck will only discourage you and make you feel less confident (and hurt the cards).

Coming from you, that's a high compliment - thanks!

Seeing as how the table faro is exceptionally difficult, I wouldn't attempt to practice it with anything more sophisticated than Tally-Ho or Bee decks, straight off the shelf.  I think Tallys are still traditionally cut, and I have a handful of trad-cut Bees that were given to me as a gift from Bill Schildman at USPC.  I'd probably opt for the Tallys because the stock's a bit easier to bend and shuffle - more pliable.

When I felt the Watcher deck and I felt this one, I knew they were just too close for it to be coincidental.  I think the REN deck is also from the same printer.  Now if only it wasn't such a closely-guarded secret as to precisely which company did the printing... 

[Gunshy1]

Looks like the aurum deck is only a card thicker if thicker at all.

Also, did anyone mention that the reveal joker's smoke spells ruby? I may have missed that throughout the thread.