Artisans by T11 [NEW]

[xela]

I often wonder how many contributors on the forums understand the amount of time spent just on the concept and design of a deck of cards, let alone the back design and tuck box.

A lot of us, including myself, have designed and printed our own decks, or are heavily involved with those that do. We all know it takes hundreds of hours to create a good deck of cards, if not more, and that is only counting the design time.

Sounds like most people voicing their thoughts and opinions want every deck of cards released by companies like D&D, T11, Ellusionist, etc to only release decks that are 100% custom from the pips to the court cards (for example, JAQK's). 

To be fair, non-custom decks have a place and I personally love them. What I do not love, specifically, is Theory11's marketing of their decks. Having not released a custom deck since the Sentinels, they market every deck as if it was some holy bastion of artwork. It's never fully custom, and it's hardly anything better than decent. When a beginner designer like Paul from Encarded pumps out more intricate designs without a fraction of T11's budget, it speaks to T11's dedication to their decks.

They have fallen very far when it comes to quality work.

Also, they still market 909 Premium finish as if it were a thing. The veil had been lifted a while ago on the inner workings of USPCC and we all know the only options are Air Cushion and Magic. And yet, thanks to their marketing, we still have famous YouTubers prancing around telling their subs that the 909P is somehow superior and feels different. Yeah, sure these people are idiots, but on the other hand their subscribers don't know that, and buy into the T11 hype.

All I'm saying is, let's not consider T11 releases anything other than a decent deck made for practical use, and not what they claim it to be: A revolutionary piece of artwork that will change your life.

Limited or not...custom faces or not...this deck (and many others) are far from 'standard.' They are cheap enough to buy a couple...add one to the collection and ACTUALLY use the other. OMG, mind blown!

Although I believe their cards are the definition of standard (tuck boxes =\= cards), they are indeed worth the money and cheap enough to use and enjoy. They're not bad, they're pretty darn good, but I would say they are closer to garbage than to the greatest thing that has ever happened in the history of the world.

Disclaimer: I haven't payed attention to the marketing for the Artisans, but anyone that remembers the Monarch marketing will tell you just how fucking godly they made those cards out to be. I believe "pinnacle of design" was used at some point in their campaign.

[sr15]

if you don't count the jaqk deck (which isn't their design) or players deck (which is really just a copy of the david blaine court card concept), T11 has released one (1) deck with custom court cards that weren't just a recoloring. Given the frequency with which they've been releasing decks, I don't expect we'll be seeing original custom court cards from them for a long time, if ever. Unless I'm missing a deck, but w/e. T11 hasn't exactly been the most original company when it comes to designing cards, and really they're just getting by on their name alone at this point, imo. Hopefully they do something truly interesting with a design soon and break this streak of underwhelming decks.

[see_squared]

All I'm saying is, let's not consider T11 releases anything other than a decent deck made for practical use, and not what they claim it to be: A revolutionary piece of artwork that will change your life.

Totally missed that part of the T11 description where they claim it will change my life.

To be fair, non-custom decks have a place and I personally love them. What I do not love, specifically, is Theory11's marketing of their decks. Having not released a custom deck since the Sentinels, they market every deck as if it was some holy bastion of artwork. It's never fully custom, and it's hardly anything better than decent. When a beginner designer like Paul from Encarded pumps out more intricate designs without a fraction of T11's budget, it speaks to T11's dedication to their decks.

I'm not here to argue or convince people that my opinion matters. It never does and never will, it's just an opinion, the same as any other.  But when people complain about something they have zero control over, it's annoying.  It's useless commentary, and lazy dialog. 

I just thought it was worth reminding people that for some, a deck of cards (something we all love in this community) is hard work to produce.  Speaking in regards to the Artisans, this was the vision of Simon Frouws.  This is the deck that HE wanted to create, not you, me or anyone else.   

Paul is a great designer, I have his cards and emailed him thanking him for his hard work and contributions to the playing card community. That was a vision that he wanted in his deck of cards.  If others liked his vision, they would support it. 

Welcome to 2012, where in order to run a successful business (e.g.  T11, D&D, ellusionist...and the like) you have to market your product and stand-by it...or else what's the point?  They aren't selling cheap unhealthy burgers to millions of people around the world...they are supplying a very small community in the world with cards and effects.  Not an easy thing to do and stay above water....unless you know how to run a business and market your product.

Although I believe their cards are the definition of standard (tuck boxes =\= cards), they are indeed worth the money and cheap enough to use and enjoy. They're not bad, they're pretty darn good, but I would say they are closer to garbage than to the greatest thing that has ever happened in the history of the world.

A 'standard' deck of playing cards is a deck of cards that everyone, everywhere is familar with...like Bicycle Rider Backs.  That's what standard means to me anyway.  The cards we all have, collect and enjoy are cards that i'm sure 9 out of 10 people wouldn't even know exist...so that's not standard.

[xela]

Totally missed that part of the T11 description where they claim it will change my life.

I used hyperbole but let's be honest, they put so much fluff into their descriptions it's hilarious sometimes.

But when people complain about something they have zero control over, it's annoying. 

When people complained about how Ellusionist handled rare deck releases, they changed how they handled them. When people complained Ellusionist didn't care about the community, E HIRED people to interact with the community (not on their forums, but here and on UC). When people whined about me pricing my deck at $11 I reduced it to $9. I remember Russell having some complaints about his design on the Americanas, and he quickly changed it as well.

I'm not saying every company has to listen to what their fans say day in and day out. On the contrary, the masses are wrong half the time. However, when T11 continues to push out "meh" products one after another, people notice. Their decks are rarely the focal points of any collection anymore, and other than the White Centurions and Propoganda v1, I cannot think of a single deck they have worth over $20 (not counting the silly gold Monarchs).

T11 is indeed competing in a niche market, but they are competing against companies like Ellusionist that pump out fully custom decks fairly often, independent artists, TBC, D&D, DB, etc. What feature do they have that is above and beyond what others have? Their tuck boxes (easily the top 5 tuck cases are all from T11).

I just want to see the same love and devotion to detail they put into their tucks on their cards.

FYI a lot of my friends see my collection and they are always amazed by the fully custom decks. A buddy of mine ended up taking a few Infinity decks because of how stunning the artwork was. I've never had anyone comment on the "standard" decks though.

And I think we are talking about two different kinds of standard. In the world of custom cards, I believe standard decks to be either unoriginal, or uncustomized.

[sr15]

Black Centurions and Wynns go for over 20 bucks pretty regularly.

[xela]

Black Centurions and Wynns go for over 20 bucks pretty regularly.

Wynns are not T11 decks

[sr15]

Black Centurions and Wynns go for over 20 bucks pretty regularly.

Wynns are not T11 decks

well they were sold by them but we're really just arguing semantics and I totally agree with the point you were making anyway. I haven't bought a T11 deck since red Jaqks (surpirse, not created by them) and a lot of what they've been putting out this year is snoozeland boring

[Don Boyer]

Welcome to 2012, where in order to run a successful business (e.g.  T11, D&D, ellusionist...and the like) you have to market your product and stand-by it...or else what's the point?  They aren't selling cheap unhealthy burgers to millions of people around the world...they are supplying a very small community in the world with cards and effects.  Not an easy thing to do and stay above water....unless you know how to run a business and market your product.

Actually, such marketing has done more harm than good for T11.  Anyone new to the game and looking at the Monarchs today would say they're a decent, highly-functional deck in a gorgeous tuck box.  But when they were being released, they were hyped as practically the next best thing to air itself.  People were RIPPING into the deck, because in no way did it live up to the hype - honestly, no deck could.


Prior to that, T11 was promoting "version 2" of some of their decks, and people were expecting something BIG.  The subjects that come to mind right off the bat would be DeckONE: Industrial Edition and Bicycle Titanium.  People were told this was a totally new version and expected changes like when Artifice went from v1 to v2, or when Smoke & Mirrors went through their first four versions.  What the got were the exact same cards cut from the exact same deck sheets - with a new, embossed tuck box.


Add that to their near-total lack of fully-custom decks, and most collectors go "meh" when they have a new release.


Mind you, that's not me - I actually like their decks, though I thought the "version 2" thing they were doing was totally stupid.  They got smart and didn't make any big deal (or announcement of a second version) when the Sentinels came back in stock with a new printing (with better handling and much less warping) and a slightly different box.  They just said, "Here they are, back in stock, better performance."  The hype machine was practically in idle, and I've heard practically nothing good or bad about the deck since the re-release, while people are still talking about the "Monarch debacle".

[jmrock]

Now that's what I'm talking about... Sick looking project... All silly geese should take note on how it's really done...

Seriously, based on 2 pics you make these statements? This will probably be another standard Theory11 deck with standard Bicycle court cards although I hope i'm proven wrong. Also knowing Theory11 I would be surprised if there is a limited edition white edition deck and other colors.

Silly VMagic... Trix are for kids... But seriously I based my statement on one pic... Not two... Wow... What a gorgeous set of decks with a beautiful box to match... This is what we call "Stunning"...

[MrMollusk]

Standard court cards with only a slight recolor.
All of my rage.

I like a bit of both - custom courts and standard ones with a recolor.


You should know by now that if it's Theory11, odds are they won't be custom.  Nothing wrong with that.  If you don't like them, I can dig it.  But many people do.  Some of my favorite decks have practically no customization to them, but they're quality decks - Gold Seal New Fan Back, Coterie Bee, any David Blaine deck (especially the Split Spades Lions).

Good point, but ever since the Sentinels, Deck ONE, and the Jaqk cards, I've been aching for some court cards with a little "wow" factor. The Brilliant, over the top box and back with recolored pips and faces has kinda been beaten to death with the Monarchs, the Rebels, the Steampunk, and now this. I think that it's time Theory11 applies their skill at designing awesome stuff for new court cards, not a super premium box.

[Don Boyer]

Good point, but ever since the Sentinels, Deck ONE, and the Jaqk cards, I've been aching for some court cards with a little "wow" factor. The Brilliant, over the top box and back with recolored pips and faces has kinda been beaten to death with the Monarchs, the Rebels, the Steampunk, and now this. I think that it's time Theory11 applies their skill at designing awesome stuff for new court cards, not a super premium box.

While they don't ignore collectors, T11 is primarily a magic shop.  Magicians will more frequently use standard faces for spectator recognition.  Their nod to collectors are the magnificent boxes - some collectors never actually open the boxes, keeping the cards on a shelf and dusting off the cellophane now and then...


JAQK Decks weren't even T11's design (it was modeled from a deck designed by the JAQK Winery), and DeckONE uses standard courts with recoloring, albeit a little more creatively than most of their other faces.  Sentinels are really their only in-house full-custom deck.

[MrMollusk]

Good point, but ever since the Sentinels, Deck ONE, and the Jaqk cards, I've been aching for some court cards with a little "wow" factor. The Brilliant, over the top box and back with recolored pips and faces has kinda been beaten to death with the Monarchs, the Rebels, the Steampunk, and now this. I think that it's time Theory11 applies their skill at designing awesome stuff for new court cards, not a super premium box.

While they don't ignore collectors, T11 is primarily a magic shop.  Magicians will more frequently use standard faces for spectator recognition.  Their nod to collectors are the magnificent boxes - some collectors never actually open the boxes, keeping the cards on a shelf and dusting off the cellophane now and then...


JAQK Decks weren't even T11's design (it was modeled from a deck designed by the JAQK Winery), and DeckONE uses standard courts with recoloring, albeit a little more creatively than most of their other faces.  Sentinels are really their only in-house full-custom deck.

I understand the Jaqk deck and the concept with magic, but I feel like the nature of the "magician's feel" is diminished by the box. Every time I perform with the Monarchs, I get suspicious looks the second the box's foil hits the light. I feel like just producing one new deck with court cards customized to at least the extent of Deck ONE would do wonders for their card collector demographic.

[Don Boyer]

I understand the Jaqk deck and the concept with magic, but I feel like the nature of the "magician's feel" is diminished by the box. Every time I perform with the Monarchs, I get suspicious looks the second the box's foil hits the light. I feel like just producing one new deck with court cards customized to at least the extent of Deck ONE would do wonders for their card collector demographic.

One could argue that the DeckONE: Industrial Edition is no more or less customized than the Rebels, Monarchs, Propagandas or Artisans.  All that's different with the faces is their washed-out, gritty coloration.  But boil it down to brass tacks, and you still have standard USPC faces with nothing more than a color tweak.


(Having said that, I'm pretty fond of DeckONE!  But I like all the other decks I listed as well.  I can't speak for the Artisans, though - I haven't received mine yet.)