Bicycle Flowers, by Alien Ink [KS]

[Don Boyer]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1919551650/flowers-printed-by-bicycle

I'm sure you guys have seen 52cartes by now.  How much do you want to bet these guys haven't even begun discussions on this deck with USPC?  Their version of the Bicycle logo is very unlikely to be approved.


Oh, and they're doing goofy custom suits again.


Though I have to say, good artwork...

[Evan]

Wow... these look pretty awful. Plus, their first deck hasn't even been sent out yet!

[DeckReview]

Wow... these look pretty awful.

Care to elaborate, Evan?

I personally love the back design. The corners and colors may make fans, giant fans, and spreads look very cool.

[Evan]

Wow... these look pretty awful.

Care to elaborate, Evan?

I just really don't like the look of these at all.

[Don Boyer]

Wow... these look pretty awful. Plus, their first deck hasn't even been sent out yet!

Well, Galaxy Cards are on sale at Amazon.  I'm guessing backers will see them soon.

I personally love the back design. The corners and colors may make fans, giant fans, and spreads look very cool.

It looks like that was a target market for them.  But seriously, there's no way USPC will allow their version of the Bicycle logo.  I'd bet they haven't submitted anything to USPC yet - their first deck was with an unnamed printer other than USPC.

Wow... these look pretty awful.

Care to elaborate, Evan?

I just really don't like the look of these at all.

Those are some bold, descriptive words there, Evan... 

What is it about the look that you dislike?  It is too colorful?  Is it too flowery?  Is it not flowery enough?   Something must have triggered your "dislike" response.

[John B.]

I dont like how its all flowery, would have rathered a more nature design.

[KPopFever605]

I dont like how its all flowery, would have rathered a more nature design.

Contrary, I love the floral design. They wanted a floral deck, and they created one. However, I can't say the same about the box though.

[LauR]

What's wrong with their logo- not that I'm saying I like the deck I'm just curious? Is there a reason it wont get approved?

[4pm Designer]

What's wrong with their logo- not that I'm saying I like the deck I'm just curious? Is there a reason it wont get approved?

The USPCC is very strict on the usage of their logo. For instance with our Grid deck, the Bicycle logo was originally just an outline of the letters, but they redesigned it to fill it in because it has to be recognizable as their brand logo. They don't like people straying too far from their logo, let alone redesigning it.

[LauR]

If I recall correctly the vortex deck and the actuator decks were also USPCC releases but their backs did not resemble their logo.

[Don Boyer]

If I recall correctly the vortex deck and the actuator decks were also USPCC releases but their backs did not resemble their logo.

Vortex was USPC-printed for AetherCards (Alex) and had no USPC brand names on it.


Actuators were Bicycle-branded, and the Bicycle logo had to be approved by the manager of the Bicycle brand at USPC before the tucks went to print.  They do have strict guidelines now, stricter than before, about what changes are permitted and what changes are not, and that's on all their brands and trademarks, including Jokers, Aces of Spades and deck backs.

[4pm Designer]

If I recall correctly the vortex deck and the actuator decks were also USPCC releases but their backs did not resemble their logo.

Vortex is not a Bicycle branded deck, Actuator uses the same logo just with color variation.

It's better to explain like this, Vortex is made by the USPCC but its not a "Bicycle" deck. When a designer makes a deck they have a choice to use the brand name/logo for marketing. However, you can still use the bicycle paper stock, which itself had several variations without using the logo. It's all marketing.

For instance, my recent deck is Mythos: Necronomicon which is also referred to as Bicycle Necronomicon. But in theory it's actually a Bee deck. We decided to go with the casino grade paper commonly used by Bee casino decks instead of the paper stock used by Bicycle decks. Originally we didn't use the Bicycle brand name on the tuck box, but soon after added it on due to the recognition the brand name brings. Thus it became a "Bicycle" deck, which was originally a no name "bicycle/uspcc manufactured" deck (much like Vortex) but in reality is actually a "Bee" deck.....yeah...it just got a bit more confusing lol.

In the end, consider the Bicycle brand logo as a copyrighted "font". If you alter the font to the point where it no longer resembles the original copyrighted font, then it is no longer the same font. It's that specific font that the USPCC owns, so if you stray too far from the original copyrighted font, this can cause legal complications which in theory would require the USPCC to copyright this new variation of their logo. Since the USPCC won't obviously go through that process, they simply reject the art or adjust it themselves to represent the original copyrighted font.

[10ofclubs]

I don't particularly like this deck either. The Bicycle logo and the vines on the backs of the cards give a..."grotesque" look. And I'm not a big fan of the black faces either.

Also, you said these guys have used non-standard suits before? Why in the world would you do that?

[Don Boyer]

I don't particularly like this deck either. The Bicycle logo and the vines on the backs of the cards give a..."grotesque" look. And I'm not a big fan of the black faces either.

Also, you said these guys have used non-standard suits before? Why in the world would you do that?

Check out the KS project page and Discourse topic on their previous deck, "Galaxy Cards".  It seems to be their thing.  They have good art, but a less-than-serious approach to creating decks.  Honestly, I'm surprised the Galaxy Cards even got made - they just squeaked over the goal in the final days.

[xela]

Sweet lord, these cards should be burned.

[Blot153]

I'm certain that anyone that visits Kickstarter knows about our deck and all the other decks, so this is not a post to say "There's a new deck on Kickstarter!!"

Instead this is to let you know the intent, purpose and features of the deck in a way that the community here I think, and hope, will get.

We've all, (us magicians anyway,) certainly done a magic trick for a girl before. I'm sure you used your favorite deck. You know, the one that's all dark and scary with skulls and blood colored pips. Sooo freakin cool!! And I'm sure that she was impressed with the trick, (you are after all, an excellent magician).

But the chances are slim, that she thought that your death deck with a skull and crossbones and blood dripping into a cup that a demon is drinking really garnered her admiration. Attention, sure; it's hard not to notice those kind of things. But it's rare that you'll find a woman or girl that is really going to remember and admire the deck, which can be a large portion of the performance, (otherwise we would all use the same standard deck).

This deck is made for girls to visually enjoy when they play card games, much more than with a death deck. And so by association, if you do a performance with them, they will also enjoy the experience and chances are they will remember the performance and you much more vividly.

Don't believe me? Take the test. Show 5 girls the Flowers project and see their reactions. It's immediate and consistent. Girls love these cards. They were drawn by a girl and designed with girls in mind. Not made EXCLUSIVELY FOR girls, but made with them in mind, something that you don't often see.

So take a moment to check out the project again, and do it with a girl there. Note their reaction and then feel free to comment here. I know that it will be positive, because we showed the design to dozens of girls of all ages while designing the deck, and when the design was final.

The deck is also in line with the USPCC to be in your hands before Valentine's. This deck is perfect for forcing a Q of Roses and asking that special girl if she'll be your Q of Roses for Valentine's. The Gaff card will be a Q of Roses without the Rose on it, which will be perfect for vanishing the rose and then pulling it out of your coat, etc. Get creative.

The card back is designed in a way that will look incredible in cardistry and fans, and again will appeal to your favorite girl.

And giving a girl a deck of cards, she can relate to and cherish for Valentine's, means that she will get way more into cards, be it Poker, or magic, or cardistry.

Comments, feedback, (other than 'you talk too much') cheers, jeers or whatever, I'd love to to hear it.

-Jeremiah and Sebastian
-AlieN InK

[Don Boyer]

Well, I'll start with saying that we already have a topic for your deck, so I'll merge this topic with that one.

Second, yes, for girls, this makes excellent sense.  But you'll need to advertise much further than the collector community.  Around here, guys outnumber women by about 20:1.  You'll get the diehards who must have everything labeled Bicycle, but not too much more than that.  This deck needs to be promoted on websites where girls and young women congregate.

Third, did you run this project by USPC yet?  Because they've become very strict about how they allow their trademarks to be presented - your "Bicycle" logo wouldn't pass muster, unless the Legal Department underwent a drastic policy change.

Good luck with this deck.  Any word on the stock or finish you're planning on using?  If you want to go totally eco-friendly with this, USPC stocks a special 100%-recycled paperboard, combined with vegetable-based inks and an organic, starch-based finish, making the entire deck easy to recycle.  It's been used in a few decks, such as the Bicycle Eco Edition and, more recently, the Bicycle Archangels.

In the end, consider the Bicycle brand logo as a copyrighted "font". If you alter the font to the point where it no longer resembles the original copyrighted font, then it is no longer the same font. It's that specific font that the USPCC owns, so if you stray too far from the original copyrighted font, this can cause legal complications which in theory would require the USPCC to copyright this new variation of their logo. Since the USPCC won't obviously go through that process, they simply reject the art or adjust it themselves to represent the original copyrighted font.

More accurately, it's a trademark of the company.  Even if a font was copyrightable, this one would have lapsed years ago.  There's too much prior art to allow the copyrighting of the alphabet!  It's like making a patented spoon that functions just like all the other spoons made before it, but it looks a little different.  It would never fly in the Patent Office.

Trademarks are a different story and can last as long as the company does - if they don't dilute the trademark too much by allowing major alterations to it.  It's why things like the Rider Back, the Bicycle Ace of Spades and the Bicycle Jokers are protected under trademark law, and why other elements such as the court cards and spot cards are highly alterable.  There's a huge amount of prior art on those latter cards, but the previously-mentioned elements are unique to a Bicycle deck and didn't exist before USPC created them.

[Blot153]

Bicycle Stock, Magic Finish.
And we are 'advertising' in other forums, it just seems like the perfect deck to go out and do magic for girls so I figured the people here should know what the deck was about. I made my case above, it's up to the magicians here to decide if it makes sense for them.

[10ofclubs]

I would never EVER perform with a deck that didn't have standard suits. I honestly think a majority of the people I perform for wouldn't be able to follow the effect if I used a deck with a two of tulips card in it.

[Blot153]

I think that flowers are a pretty common object. One that people can immediately relate to and recognize. Especially women and girls.

If you are a magician for kids parties, I think even kids would recognize the suits. I've shown people the Flower deck concept and no one has ever been confused. It's up to you.

[Don Boyer]

Bicycle Stock, Magic Finish.
And we are 'advertising' in other forums, it just seems like the perfect deck to go out and do magic for girls so I figured the people here should know what the deck was about. I made my case above, it's up to the magicians here to decide if it makes sense for them.

While there's no hard and fast rule that insists magicians must use a standard deck, it does make presentations easier for the spectators in that they recognize the faces and they're like the decks they use at home.  Also, when a deck is overloaded with details, sometimes the deck itself ends up being the show, taking practically all attention from the trick you're performing.

I would never EVER perform with a deck that didn't have standard suits. I honestly think a majority of the people I perform for wouldn't be able to follow the effect if I used a deck with a two of tulips card in it.

I wouldn't go that far!  Your audiences aren't idiots.

I think that flowers are a pretty common object. One that people can immediately relate to and recognize. Especially women and girls.

If you are a magician for kids parties, I think even kids would recognize the suits. I've shown people the Flower deck concept and no one has ever been confused. It's up to you.

Children are easier to present new concepts to because they're minds are still more "plastic" and pliable than the typical adult.  And yes, kids love cute, but I don't think little boys will be quite as interested.  I have found, however, that "The Dog" deck is extremely popular with both genders of children!

Simply put, there will be people who accept your design when it's presented to them, and people who won't.  A more-standard deck using standard suits, however, would receive near-universal acceptance.

Also, as a design suggestion, I think the black background on the faces is a bit less appealing than it would be if it was a white background, allowing the brightness of the flowers to show better.

Some magicians would find this deck suitable for some of their audiences, but I think your biggest target market should be young girls in their tweens.  A Japanese market would also consider these as fantastic, since as a culture they love anything "kawaii" (cute).  Koreans may find this appealing as well for similar reasons.  You should look into partnering up with an Asian distributor.  Your market penetration will be far greater in those markets than in the US card collectors and magicians market.  Card flourishers may also find this very appealing, since you could create some very colorful fans, spreads and other displays.

[DeckReview]

So here's a few pictures of the card's back in a fan, double fan, and a giant fan.

The backs look really cool and in my opinion I think the cards do have the potential to be pretty worthy in any collection. That's just my opinion, girly deck or not, the backs are clean and elegant.

The pledge money is really behind, a little word to your friends can help push the deck close to the goal though

[Don Boyer]

So, as of Friday midday (Eastern), this deck was canceled by Alien Ink.  Now, early Saturday morning, it's back.  New box design, but same cards.

His reward levels don't conform to the KS standard.  Some of the high end rewards have a buttload of decks in them, more than KS permits.

[Don Boyer]

...and now it's canceled again.  The deck reached $2,562 before being canceled by Alien Ink about midnight (05:00 UTC Thursday 3 Jan).  The deck had been moving very slowly - the tracking in the NDR shows that on a typical recent week, it made around $100-200.  With a $10,000 goal and a deadline of Monday, it looks like they opted to pull the plug instead of tilting at the windmill.

Perhaps they'll retool the design and come back for a third attempt?