Author (Read 2897 times)

Shad0w · « **on:** December 18, 2012, 11:08:34 AM »

Hi there,

The sheer amount of different decks out there is overwhelming! The more I read, the more decks I see, the more confused as I get!! So I thought I would ask you experts here to help me out.

I'm a beginner.. I have been practicing every day hard for the past 5 months or so and I hope to put on a performance for all my family this Christmas/New Year..They come in waves!!

I have been practicing all this time on 4 decks from Grandpa. They say Tally-Ho Linoid Finish on the box. I was thinking maybe I should get a new custom deck with some nice designs that's good for magic? If it helps, Dan Harlan and Shin Lim are two of the greats that I follow and been practicing their moveeees

I have a budget of $40. What decks would be a good choice for me? Aurum? Monarchs? Any help regarding this would be really great!

Thank you

nimblewitted · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2012, 11:27:35 AM »

Personally, if my goal is to simply perform tricks (not any flourishes, etc) I stick with the decks with the lower amounts of customizations. People are weary of trick decks and even though you may think a deck such as the Arcane Deck to look cool, other people will just think it's a deck that's helping you do your trick (instead of giving you any credit you deserve).

So, having said that, if you're really hoping for something other thank standard bikes or tally ho's, I'd go with either Crown decks (from thebluecrown.com), Monarchs (t11), White Lions (David Blaine), or even Bees (stingers if you need borders).

MrMollusk · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2012, 03:26:41 PM »

Quote from: Shad0w on December 18, 2012, 11:08:34 AM

Hi there,

The sheer amount of different decks out there is overwhelming! The more I read, the more decks I see, the more confused as I get!! So I thought I would ask you experts here to help me out.

I'm a beginner.. I have been practicing every day hard for the past 5 months or so and I hope to put on a performance for all my family this Christmas/New Year..They come in waves!! I have been practicing all this time on 4 decks from Grandpa. They say Tally-Ho Linoid Finish on the box. I was thinking maybe I should get a new custom deck with some nice designs that's good for magic? If it helps, Dan Harlan and Shin Lim are two of the greats that I follow and been practicing their moveeees I have a budget of $40. What decks would be a good choice for me? Aurum? Monarchs? Any help regarding this would be really great!

Thank you

It depends what kind of things you're into. If you're a cardist looking for good handling and a really superb feel, try to get your hands on a Smoke and Mirrors V6 by Dan and Dave. They can get a little pricy, but if you bide your time, you may be able to snap one up on Ebay for about $14. For shuffling sleights and card control, try some bees. The borderless edges makes sleights much harder to detect, and they riffle and shuffle like a dream. For stuff like street/gimmick magic, I'd recommend the Ghost/Black Ghost by Ellusionist. The black ghost might raise some suspicion, but they work nice for those really visual tricks. For just a nice all around deck, I'd say the crown deck. It just works well in all categories. The Aurum and Monarch decks are more for collectors, imo, but only you really know your preferences to choose a good deck selection for you.

btw, if you ever get into card collecting, you need to get a Fantastique deck. They're just so awesome.

MrMollusk · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2012, 03:31:34 PM »

Oh, I forgot.
You should introduce yourself! http://aethercards.com/discourse/introduce-yourself/

Don Boyer · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2012, 04:07:10 PM »

Quote from: Shad0w on December 18, 2012, 11:08:34 AM

Hi there,

The sheer amount of different decks out there is overwhelming! The more I read, the more decks I see, the more confused as I get!! So I thought I would ask you experts here to help me out.

I'm a beginner.. I have been practicing every day hard for the past 5 months or so and I hope to put on a performance for all my family this Christmas/New Year..They come in waves!! I have been practicing all this time on 4 decks from Grandpa. They say Tally-Ho Linoid Finish on the box. I was thinking maybe I should get a new custom deck with some nice designs that's good for magic? If it helps, Dan Harlan and Shin Lim are two of the greats that I follow and been practicing their moveeees I have a budget of $40. What decks would be a good choice for me? Aurum? Monarchs? Any help regarding this would be really great!

Thank you

Shadow, I suggest going for simple and inexpensive. You want the attention on your skills and talents, not on the cards so much.

Most currently-available Theory11 deck would make an excellent choice. They have custom backs and beautiful boxes, but with one exception they all have standard USPC faces.

The Crown Deck and the NOC Decks from The Blue Crown/House of Playing Cards are also excellent choices. The Crowns have Arrco faces - something you don't see very often these days, but are totally standard. The NOCs have USPC faces and solid-color backs with white borders - it's a lot easier to convince your audience that you aren't using a marked deck when there's nowhere for the marks to hide.

At Ellusionist, the red and blue Masters decks make great options - they look 100% like standard Bikes except for the Ace of Spades, while they're far more durable and have a better finish. As a transition from Tally Ho, you might enjoy those.

If you want to get a little flashier, you can get an all-black deck like the Black Tigers - simple yet different. For something with a little more style, the Artifice deck has become E's go-to deck - I recommend the version 2 green and blue decks with the white borders.

Now if you want to take the tricks up a notch, you could always try a simple trick deck. The most commonly used trick deck would be a stripper deck - and it's also among the most versatile, if you use it the right way. While some will swear by Svengali decks, I prefer the less-common and more-devious Mirage deck - unlike a Svengali, you can fan a Mirage deck. And one of the most powerful tricks in all of card magic comes in the form of the Invisible deck.

Good luck with your Yuletide performance!

EDIT: nearly forgot you're working with a budget. The least expensive quality options among the ones I presented are red and blue Masters from Ellusionist and NOC from House of Playing Cards.

Joker and the Thief · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2012, 07:02:16 PM »

Shadow; I agree with Don, cheap and simple bro. Don't go out and buy too many custom decks while you're only starting out, it is extremely easy to get caught up in. While your skills are getting a basic foundation and development, there is no need for large amounts of cards.

For someone like you I recommend that you practice all the basic moves and master them, then go on to learn 3 great pieces of magic. It's all you need. Lee Asher said this in a theory11 beginners video (http://youtu.be/tUwY-hb8I_I). Of course change them around every now and again and play around with them BUT 3 or 4 great effects is logical.

Now since you are starting out, can I interest you in some Cardistry? You can do both Magic and Cardistry or you can drop Magic and learn the art of card flourishing or you can just do magic, the choice is yours. I'm just going to leave these here though:

http://youtu.be/NJoRKEhphwM
http://youtu.be/DaORbkSli-o
http://youtu.be/pAVsMqA-ejc
http://youtu.be/9r6vHSUd1y0

As for cards, I recommend Tally-Ho and Bicycle Standard. If you want some custom cards, I'd recommend Monarchs, Bee Stingers and White Ghost. Excellent for both Flourishing and Magic.

sr15 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2012, 07:16:39 PM »

Quote from: Joker and the Thief on December 18, 2012, 07:02:16 PM

Shadow; I agree with Don, cheap and simple bro. Don't go out and buy too many custom decks while you're only starting out, it is extremely easy to get caught up in. While your skills are getting a basic foundation and development, there is no need for large amounts of cards.

I will say that it's not exactly difficult to collect cards and practice magic at the same time. In fact, I found it quite easy to do both and doing one of them would usually encourage me to do the other as well. It is very easy to get caught up on collecting, though, but I'd warn you about that more for the sake of your wallet than as a deterrent from practicing magic.

As far as a couple of good custom decks for magic, I'd recommend something simple, as most people here already have. I personally really like the Artifice design, and the customization is close enough to standard cards to not arouse suspicion. The V2s would be best since the border is helpful for magic as well. Anything from Theory 11 is probably a safe bet, as well as the white lions decks. Anything not too outlandish will probably work fine, I'd say.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2012, 07:54:09 PM »

Quote from: sr15 on December 18, 2012, 07:16:39 PM

Quote from: Joker and the Thief on December 18, 2012, 07:02:16 PM
Shadow; I agree with Don, cheap and simple bro. Don't go out and buy too many custom decks while you're only starting out, it is extremely easy to get caught up in. While your skills are getting a basic foundation and development, there is no need for large amounts of cards.

I will say that it's not exactly difficult to collect cards and practice magic at the same time. In fact, I found it quite easy to do both and doing one of them would usually encourage me to do the other as well. It is very easy to get caught up on collecting, though, but I'd warn you about that more for the sake of your wallet than as a deterrent from practicing magic.

As far as a couple of good custom decks for magic, I'd recommend something simple, as most people here already have. I personally really like the Artifice design, and the customization is close enough to standard cards to not arouse suspicion. The V2s would be best since the border is helpful for magic as well. Anything from Theory 11 is probably a safe bet, as well as the white lions decks. Anything not too outlandish will probably work fine, I'd say.

David Blaine's decks are all great for magic, but they sell out quickly and get expensive in the aftermarket. The decks I recommended are not only fairly inexpensive compared to most but are decks that are expected to be reprinted, for the most part.

John B. · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2012, 09:34:00 PM »

I say try to stick to what is common in your area. Here everyone has bikes, so I get Ellusiniost's master decks.

ruicorreia · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2012, 08:08:08 AM »

I generally agree with all answers: stick with the simple (and cheaper) for 2 main reasons:
- with a custom deck, spectators usually find it more suspicious, as if it's a deck with some kind of trick;
- because you are a beginner and because the Holidays are near, you may have some difficulties adapting to new decks, mainly because the cards are more slippery, even when you "brake the deck" (I think I used the correct expression, right?). To minimize that problem, I've used just a little pinch of fanning powder to help. And you don't want to do that with a good deck.

So, I personally would advise Bicycle Rider Back or Tally Ho.

Go and amaze your relatives

Siegismyname · « **Reply #10 on:** December 19, 2012, 08:35:42 AM »

Card that are good for magic should be:
1) Cheap and recognizable
2) Easily obtainable

Thus with a $40 budget I suggest you stick with bicycles. Invest in a gaff deck and Voila! Gaffs are what spectators usually don't anticipate and using bikes allow you to tear, sign and fold cards without feeling so much pain yet delivering a more powerful effect. Using bikes also allow you to integrate a lot of other gimmicks and gaffs as most of them are built for a standard bicycle deck, like a marked, mirage or a Svengali deck like Don mentioned.

I hope that helped

Paul Carpenter · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2012, 04:53:54 PM »

As much as I think you should buy a few Aurum decks for your collection, for magic in front of an audience you really can't go wrong with a standard deck. People are comfortable with them and don't suspect anything. Keep the nice decks for yourself to enjoy, and beat up the normal ones.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2012, 08:09:09 PM »

Quote from: Encarded on December 19, 2012, 04:53:54 PM

As much as I think you should buy a few Aurum decks for your collection, for magic in front of an audience you really can't go wrong with a standard deck. People are comfortable with them and don't suspect anything. Keep the nice decks for yourself to enjoy, and beat up the normal ones.

Cheap and easy-to-get standard decks are a good thing, but he does want to jazz it up just a little. I say stick with "simple custom" - there are many custom decks that are fairly cheap and often restocked, so they're not so precious that you wouldn't mind destroying a card in a signature or T-n-R trick. That would include most of E's output and a fair percentage of T11 and TBC/HOPC. Go for a deck that doesn't have too much customization, but that adds a little spice at the same time. You want the faces to be recognizable to your audience and your magic act to be the primary focus rather than the cards you're using.

The gaff deck idea is something to look at - either a deck filled with gaff cards or a fully-gimmicked deck. E has matching gaff decks for some of their decks while HOPC has a number of gimmick decks in the Crown design. Getting a forcing deck can be very useful when performing tricks that ruin cards - you've got a ton of replacement cards for the one that you're destroying.

DeckReview · « **Reply #13 on:** December 19, 2012, 09:55:53 PM »

For magic, I like to use and recommend red masters or just standard bicycle cards. The handling for the standards is quite good contrary to modern belief.

Like encarded said, keep the doped out stuff for your own practice time/use. They're expensive stuff.

But if you really want something slightly fancy and not too over the top for performing magic, I recommend Guardians, Archangels, and Silver Monarchs. Maybe either red or gold dragon backs by bicycle.

Shad0w · « **Reply #14 on:** December 19, 2012, 11:41:27 PM »

Thank you all for all the replies!!!

You guys were right about automatically turning into a card collector! I'm already thinking of going over my budget. A lot of great decks were mentioned. So far -

Crown Decks 3
Monarchs
White Lions 2
Bees
Ghost Black
NOC decks
Masters Deck
Black Tigers 2
Artifice 2

Crown decks got the most recommendation! It looks like a pair of crowns wouldn't hurt?! What do you guys think about the Erdnase 1902 Bee Smith 2? They seem like the best of the both worlds - borderless/bordered! I hear Cambric finish would be better for magic/sleights?

Mechanic Deck at HOPC also intrigued me. I like that they could be also used as a marked deck. A marked deck gives me tons of ideas

So Crowns/Smith 2's for the regular routines and maybe Artifice 2 or the Ghost Black deck for some of the flashy ones. I don't have any tearing routines now.so wouldn't have to be in pain

Thanks for mentioning the NOC decks. I really like the simple and elegant look..leaves all the attention on the tricks as well...Maybe down the line I can invest in the "juice" for the NOC decks

even though I have no idea how it works now

I was just reading about marked decks and saw someone mentioning the "juice"..They say you could read cards from across the room with those? That would make for some killer routines

gives me ideas...

And some inexpensive bees for practice...So many cards!! cards cards cards!!

About cardistry, I like it but I feel like I should focus more on the the basic moves and keep practicing all the routines till I perfect them...I really want to put on a good show for my family! I didn't realize how much I enjoy working with cards..

Thank you

Don Boyer · « **Reply #15 on:** December 20, 2012, 12:28:04 AM »

Quote from: Shad0w on December 19, 2012, 11:41:27 PM

Thank you all for all the replies!!!

You guys were right about automatically turning into a card collector! I'm already thinking of going over my budget. A lot of great decks were mentioned. So far -

Crown Decks 3
Monarchs
White Lions 2
Bees
Ghost Black
NOC decks
Masters Deck
Black Tigers 2
Artifice 2

Crown decks got the most recommendation! It looks like a pair of crowns wouldn't hurt?! What do you guys think about the Erdnase 1902 Bee Smith 2? They seem like the best of the both worlds - borderless/bordered! I hear Cambric finish would be better for magic/sleights?

Mechanic Deck at HOPC also intrigued me. I like that they could be also used as a marked deck. A marked deck gives me tons of ideas

So Crowns/Smith 2's for the regular routines and maybe Artifice 2 or the Ghost Black deck for some of the flashy ones. I don't have any tearing routines now.so wouldn't have to be in pain

Thanks for mentioning the NOC decks. I really like the simple and elegant look..leaves all the attention on the tricks as well...Maybe down the line I can invest in the "juice" for the NOC decks even though I have no idea how it works now I was just reading about marked decks and saw someone mentioning the "juice"..They say you could read cards from across the room with those? That would make for some killer routines gives me ideas...

And some inexpensive bees for practice...So many cards!! cards cards cards!!

About cardistry, I like it but I feel like I should focus more on the the basic moves and keep practicing all the routines till I perfect them...I really want to put on a good show for my family! I didn't realize how much I enjoy working with cards..

Thank you

No, owning some Crowns wouldn't hurt.

Having a few different CARC Erdnase Bee decks isn't a bad idea, but they get pretty repetitive after a while. Cambric and Ivory are just embossed and smooth - no real effect on sleights either way. Smooth decks (with some exceptions) don't fan as well because the cards don't glide off each other the way an embossed deck does, but they're great for durability - damned hard to riffle shuffle Bee Casino smooth stock...builds finger strength! But again, all those Erdnase decks are limited editions and probably not the decks you want to be using and abusing in your magic routines, especially if you're a relative beginner. Plus they have "old-style" faces on them - they're made to appear like how decks looked in 1902, except that the Kings all have well-known modern magicians' faces on them.

"Juice" is a way of applying an ink on the back of the card that's only visible under certain circumstances and conditions, allowing you to read the deck while no one else can. But juice might not work so well on a NOC deck, since there's no pattern for the juice to hide in. Same thing for daubs and other similar marking systems.

If you really want a marked deck, you can look for the David Blaine "Mind Reading" deck - it looks like black Split Spades Lions but comes in a Bicycle box. It was one of a trio of trick decks, the other two being stripper (blue) and Svengali (red). Another viable possibility is the Phoenix Apocalypse 2012 deck. If you want to get a bit closer to the top of the line (without using juice/daubs), there's the Bicycle Ultimate Marked Deck (out of print, but still available at ever-increasing prices), the Bicycle Mandolin Back GT Speedreader deck and the Bicycle Maiden Back Gambler's Deck. Gambler's decks are awesome - marked, stripped and works with a deck stack. With some practice and training, you can do some minor miracles with a Gambler's deck. Bear in mind that GOOD marked decks aren't usually cheap, and vice versa.

Bees aren't just for practice, y'know. That borderless Diamond Back design makes concealing certain sleights a lot easier. The heavier stock is great for a working magician's deck.

DeckReview · « **Reply #16 on:** December 20, 2012, 12:49:20 PM »

Quote from: Shad0w on December 19, 2012, 11:41:27 PM

Mechanic Deck at HOPC also intrigued me. I like that they could be also used as a marked deck. A marked deck gives me tons of ideas

In all honesty, the mechanic deck makes for a terrible marked deck for magic or gaming. The marking system is too flawed to actually be used as a marked deck. Using the markings in small card routines, and I mean routines that uses about 3-8 cards may be possible.

Just as a heads up if that's the only thing drawing you to that deck. It handles and performs great, and shuffles are mind-boggling uber cool too.

MrMollusk · « **Reply #17 on:** December 21, 2012, 10:23:32 AM »

Quote from: Shad0w on December 19, 2012, 11:41:27 PM

Mechanic Deck at HOPC also intrigued me. I like that they could be also used as a marked deck. A marked deck gives me tons of ideas

Deck Review's right. The design was never really intended to use for identifying cards, more of making a stop motion animation when you riffle them. The audience may get suspicious if you use a marked deck with customization. Plus, it's cheaper just to do this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsbJQaaGXtc
The daniel madison deck had a brilliant marking system, but they're sold out...

Don Boyer · « **Reply #18 on:** December 21, 2012, 01:23:07 PM »

Quote from: MrMollusk on December 21, 2012, 10:23:32 AM

Quote from: Shad0w on December 19, 2012, 11:41:27 PM

Mechanic Deck at HOPC also intrigued me. I like that they could be also used as a marked deck. A marked deck gives me tons of ideas

Deck Review's right. The design was never really intended to use for identifying cards, more of making a stop motion animation when you riffle them. The audience may get suspicious if you use a marked deck with customization. Plus, it's cheaper just to do this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsbJQaaGXtc
The daniel madison deck had a brilliant marking system, but they're sold out...

The best marking system I've found to date, not including juiced/daubed decks, is the Ultimate Marked Deck. It's a Bicycle Rider Back, in either red or blue. The markings aren't symbols that need to be interpreted or dots that reveal cards based on their location. They're as easy to read from the back as they are from the front. More importantly, if someone holds a hand of cards and spreads them to read the indices, I can read the marks from the back at the revealed corners. They're also meant to be readable at a fair distance if you have 20/20 vision or better.

There are only two drawbacks to the deck, having nothing to do with the marking system.

1) Availability. The deck was made as a limited run - technically, all runs are limited - but now that USPC changed the customization rules, disallowing any changes to the Rider Back design, they CAN'T be reprinted, even if the designer wanted to do so, without choosing a different, less-common back design.

2) Price. The deck was never cheap. It used to sell for around $25-$30 a pack. Now that it's becoming an endangered species, the pricing (last time I checked) is closer to $40 a pack. It could be even higher since I haven't really checked since the summer. Few shops even have them left in stock and they don't come up a lot on eBay.

Shad0w · « **Reply #19 on:** December 23, 2012, 09:22:46 AM »

Thanks for all the replies and help. I wanted to make the purchase sooner but it's okay! Merry Christmas everyone!

I have watched almost all of your deck reviews deck! Very helpful. great giant fans as well

I have made my decision - way over my initial $40 budget but I suppose cards always win in the end

A pair of Masters Red
Bicylce Gambler's deck ( this alone is $30 ) It was tough not to go for the Ultimate Marked Deck since everyone had nothing but good things to say about it - I just kinda liked the all in one kinda deal with the Gambler's deck. I may get the UMD in the future if it's still available.
NOC purple ( I just really wanted to have one, don't ask me why - wouldn't know what to say

)
Silver Monarchs

If anyone wish to make any changes - Speak Now or forever remain silent!! I will listen!

I wish I could get them all from one place or free shipping. Shipping cost from difference places are gonna add up.

Thank you

Ben K · « **Reply #20 on:** December 23, 2012, 10:16:31 AM »

Check out tannins and 1eyedjack. You may be able to find a chunk of them on one or the other. Best luck!

Ps. My vote is for monarchs, tallys and fantastiques

John B. · « **Reply #21 on:** December 23, 2012, 11:14:20 AM »

My vote would be Red master, Blue master, and maybe a couple artifice decks if you want something custom.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #22 on:** December 23, 2012, 06:32:46 PM »

Your selection is excellent, Shad0w. The Bicycle Gambler's Deck - did you find a Rider Back, or the newer Maiden Back? I have the Rider Back, now out of print for good, and I'm itching to check out the Maiden Back to see if it's better.

Shad0w · « **Reply #23 on:** December 24, 2012, 05:31:08 PM »

I got the Maiden back. Now the hardest part is waiting for all of them to arrive. I will let you know how it is! I got the Gambler's deck from mymagic[dot]com. and the rest from other sites.. They had it priced as a set with a regular deck added in...but not sure if it comes with the book that was supposed to come with Gambler's deck...Lot of things you could do with that deck..might have to fish for some ideas...

Thanks for all the help!

Thank you

Don Boyer · « **Reply #24 on:** December 24, 2012, 06:21:17 PM »

Quote from: Shad0w on December 24, 2012, 05:31:08 PM

I got the Maiden back. Now the hardest part is waiting for all of them to arrive. I will let you know how it is! I got the Gambler's deck from mymagic[dot]com. and the rest from other sites.. They had it priced as a set with a regular deck added in...but not sure if it comes with the book that was supposed to come with Gambler's deck...Lot of things you could do with that deck..might have to fish for some ideas... Thanks for all the help!

Thank you

Including the deck, that's a good deal.