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Don Boyer · « **Reply #25 on:** May 03, 2013, 09:01:20 AM »

Quote from: sprouts1115 on March 10, 2013, 10:00:17 PM

This is what I in-vision for the back of the card....This is basically the theme with the Texas Star, but with a circle.

You'll want to change it up quite a bit - people around here recognize the Texan '45 1889 deck pretty quickly.

Quote from: sprouts1115 on May 02, 2013, 10:55:32 PM

added some skulls to the front of the box. Is this theme a little to simple?

Simple is fine, but I think people will be a little befuddled over the name you're choosing. Plus you might want to insure that the name isn't already copyrighted first, particularly for another brand of cards - you could run into a lot of headaches. (Can you even copyright a state name?)

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 03, 2013, 07:37:52 PM »

Don - I think your right.

xela · « **Reply #27 on:** May 04, 2013, 04:37:27 PM »

I still don't get what this is. Like, you do realize your deck can't be used for anything, right?

Don Boyer · « **Reply #28 on:** May 04, 2013, 04:49:10 PM »

Quote from: alex. on May 04, 2013, 04:37:27 PM

I still don't get what this is. Like, you do realize your deck can't be used for anything, right?

Well, if you strip out the extra cards, you can play poker, but then...why buy the extra cards?

I tried talking to him about simple, logical, less-expensive ways to get his deck made - no dice. He's stopped listening because he he's stubborn about making it his way and no other. Texas cards that have nothing to do with Texas, a name that's very similar to an already-existing deck (who's back he's thinking of imitating), all those extra cards when USPC will only make 56 for a deck - he's literally planning to place two print runs and manually combine the decks together himself... There's little rhyme or reason to it all, but hey, if it makes him happy, whatever...

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 04, 2013, 07:12:28 PM »

Don - Your wrong. You have giving me some very good advice, but sometimes you have to go with your gut feeling. The first run of these cards I want them to be special. All i'm doing in the first deck is to glorify the Bicycle 808 series; They are the standard of today. As for the Texas theme, well everything is bigger in Texas right? I've have the biggest royal flush. Instead of 2 pip cards and 3 court cards for your standard royal flush(A, K, Q, J, 10). Mine has 5 court cards(K, Q, B, C, J). Tell you a secret. I have already thought of the 2nd deck I want to make. In that deck the (10) card will changed to the (T)ower card. It will be a transitional card from the court cards to the pips. Also in the 2nd deck there will be a lot of symbolism from the Tarot cards especially from the Cary-Yale Tarot. http://www.albideuter.de/html/cary_yale.html

It interesting to note the Cary-Yale had 6 court cards. King, Queen, Knight(male), Knight(female), Page(male), Page(female)

Below is correspondence from Tiffany a while back.

my second question: has anything changed with the tuck vendors. i notice you have overseas tuck vendors now. can any of them made a box that holds 64 cards, possibly with bee stock. if they are thinking about about it, i would be the perfect experiment. can you check it out?

We’ve had vendors in China for years. What type of box would you like a quote for? I need all specs and minimum order quantity is 5,000 decks with a 4 month lead time. If you need us to load the decks in the boxes that would be an additional charge as well.

Hi Russell,
No problem, I can look into pricing from our China vendor. We purchase our drawer boxes from them. Is that the type you'd like? If so, what color paper would you like them wrapped? Please note it takes 4 months for us to get them from China. The minimum order quantity is 5,000 and we've never done more than a 56 card deck box so we'll have to make sure they can make them at your specs.

Please note that our Bicycle and Bee cards have overlapping caliper specs. Depending on paper, humidity etc the decks could end up at similar thickness.

Thanks so much!

Tiffany Mahan
Business Development Manager
The United States Playing Card Company
**Our scheduled factory shut down days are May 24th and June 24th-28th. Projects that are set to finish at the end of June will push out to the beginning of July due to the shutdown.**

Don Boyer · « **Reply #30 on:** May 04, 2013, 07:26:57 PM »

Quote from: sprouts1115 on May 04, 2013, 07:12:28 PM

my second question: has anything changed with the tuck vendors. i notice you have overseas tuck vendors now. can any of them made a box that holds 64 cards, possibly with bee stock. if they are thinking about about it, i would be the perfect experiment. can you check it out?

We’ve had vendors in China for years. What type of box would you like a quote for? I need all specs and minimum order quantity is 5,000 decks with a 4 month lead time. If you need us to load the decks in the boxes that would be an additional charge as well.

Hi Russell,
No problem, I can look into pricing from our China vendor. We purchase our drawer boxes from them. Is that the type you'd like? If so, what color paper would you like them wrapped? Please note it takes 4 months for us to get them from China. The minimum order quantity is 5,000 and we've never done more than a 56 card deck box so we'll have to make sure they can make them at your specs.

Please note that our Bicycle and Bee cards have overlapping caliper specs. Depending on paper, humidity etc the decks could end up at similar thickness.

Thanks so much!

Tiffany Mahan
Business Development Manager
The United States Playing Card Company
**Our scheduled factory shut down days are May 24th and June 24th-28th. Projects that are set to finish at the end of June will push out to the beginning of July due to the shutdown.**

Hmmmm, yes... And how does that make you feel?

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #31 on:** May 04, 2013, 11:10:26 PM »

Sneak peek at website before kickstarter launch. Any criticism?

Don Boyer · « **Reply #32 on:** May 04, 2013, 11:19:11 PM »

Quote from: sprouts1115 on May 04, 2013, 11:10:26 PM

Sneak peek at website before kickstarter launch. Any criticism?

I might have some - if I could figure out what the hell this is supposed to be...

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #33 on:** May 09, 2013, 09:47:30 PM »

The box. See any other errors or problems? With your help, I would like to send the final to Tiffany in a week.

The "01 001 2013" means (deck, run, year)

Loop Cuts · « **Reply #34 on:** May 10, 2013, 08:22:37 AM »

I actually think you have something. Drop me a line at loopcuts@Gmail.com and I'll see how I can help.

xela · « **Reply #35 on:** May 10, 2013, 12:09:41 PM »

Quote from: Robert on May 10, 2013, 08:22:37 AM

I actually think you have something. Drop me a line at loopcuts@Gmail.com and I'll see how I can help.

Dude you gotta be joking. The design makes no sense. The added cards are just silly.

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 10, 2013, 07:04:56 PM »

About a year ago on Wikipedia. I was deep in the rabbit hole clicking on this link and that link. It's one of those links I wished I've saved. I can't find it; I've tried. It showed a Spanish deck of 40 cards. Back then(13th or 14th century) 40 card decks were more popular then 52 card decks. Always, they played this game called "twenty-one". (K, Q, J, 7, 6, 5 ,4 ,3, 2, A) X 4 suits = 40 cards. The Ace could be 1 or 11. It had basically the same rules as modern "BlackJack". I thought, "Wow, this game is so much better than "BlackJack". It's so simple". What if you got a King and a Queen? that would be 19. I bet 40 card deck users thought, "Why would I want to add more cards. Do I want to play with 10 cards in a suit or 13 cards in a suit?

Then I found out in the beginning the Ace was not the highest card. The Ace has been the highest for only the past 200 years. Cards are roughly 600 years old. Then I thought, "How can I make a deck with the Ace being the lowest card...." If you think about it, I'm adding 3 cards. So, (K, Q, B, C, J, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, A, J) X 4 suits = 64 cards. You have to ask, "Do I want to play with a deck with 16 cards in a suit with more court cards and some wild card they call the Joker?"

Don Boyer · « **Reply #37 on:** May 10, 2013, 10:08:49 PM »

Quote from: sprouts1115 on May 10, 2013, 07:04:56 PM

About a year ago on Wikipedia. I was deep in the rabbit hole clicking on this link and that link. It's one of those links I wished I've saved. I can't find it; I've tried. It showed a Spanish deck of 40 cards. Back then(13th or 14th century) 40 card decks were more popular then 52 card decks. Always, they played this game called "twenty-one". (K, Q, J, 7, 6, 5 ,4 ,3, 2, A) X 4 suits = 40 cards. The Ace could be 1 or 11. It had basically the same rules as modern "BlackJack". I thought, "Wow, this game is so much better than "BlackJack". It's so simple". What if you got a King and a Queen? that would be 19. I bet 40 card deck users thought, "Why would I want to add more cards. Do I want to play with 10 cards in a suit or 13 cards in a suit?

Then I found out in the beginning the Ace was not the highest card. The Ace has been the highest for only the past 200 years. Cards are roughly 600 years old. Then I thought, "How can I make a deck with the Ace being the lowest card...." If you think about it, I'm adding 3 cards. So, (K, Q, B, C, J, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, A, J) X 4 suits = 64 cards. You have to ask, "Do I want to play with a deck with 16 cards in a suit with more court cards and some wild card they call the Joker?"

Different regions of the world have developed many different decks over the centuries. In India, a card-like game played with discs has thirteen suits. Japanese Hanafuda decks are divided into months rather than suits. Then there's Euchre decks, Pinochle decks, German-suited decks, Italian-suited decks... To which I say, "So?"

The standard in the United States has been developing for practically as long as there's been a United States. While others have developed non-standard decks, they're called non-standard for a reason. People are used to the standard, and there's a reason the standard sells millions of decks a year while the non-standards might sell a few thousand a year. I've even tried showing you ways to get it done more cheaply so as to reduce the financial risk, but you weren't interested.

So, have fun developing your deck - and selling it. It won't be easy. But what in life is, right?

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 13, 2013, 11:46:05 PM »

Just got the new revisions from Vivian today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kt1YHdKFaI... (Jump to 3min) Things are going to change on the website soon. Sneak peak. Jokers are going to be special. I love the Jokers they symbolize what the 2nd deck is going to look like.

Don - The best special deck that I can think of is Aristocrat 300 stock with Silver gilled edges with 1 metallic ink. Anything that is white in the court card and all numbers within the suit are now silver. It will have a special silver seal and be numbered (1-100). Any suggestions to making this more special? I could make some Stripper decks non numbered. With Aristocrat stock that would be the perfect medium. What do you think maybe having a later reward of Stripper decks (1-100) with mabe a free shirt....ect limited decks seems to work.. I know I only want to do 5000 Silver gilded edges.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #39 on:** May 14, 2013, 01:59:18 AM »

Quote from: sprouts1115 on May 13, 2013, 11:46:05 PM

Just got the new revisions from Vivian today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kt1YHdKFaI... (Jump to 3min) Things are going to change on the website soon. Sneak peak. Jokers are going to be special. I love the Jokers they symbolize what the 2nd deck is going to look like.

Don - The best special deck that I can think of is Aristocrat 300 stock with Silver gilled edges with 1 metallic ink. Anything that is white in the court card and all numbers within the suit are now silver. It will have a special silver seal and be numbered (1-100). Any suggestions to making this more special? I could make some Stripper decks non numbered. With Aristocrat stock that would be the perfect medium. What do you think maybe having a later reward of Stripper decks (1-100) with mabe a free shirt....ect limited decks seems to work.. I know I only want to do 5000 Silver gilded edges.

You might (or might not) have noticed that non-standard decks are rarely mentioned on this site. There's a reason for that. Most of the people here who collect cards have LITTLE to NO interest in non-standard decks for their collections. It's entirely possible that you could have the next hit card game on your hands with your Texas playing cards (a name that's still utterly incongruous with the deck's design), but it would probably interest only a tiny fraction of the people here. Whatever sound advice I've offered regarding your deck has been ignored, so I see no point in offering any more unless you're interested in hiring me for my professional consulting services - and even then I would probably turn you down because you'd still be thoroughly uninterested in anything practical I'd have to say about this.

I bear you no ill will and wish you the best of luck on your venture.

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #40 on:** May 14, 2013, 09:24:19 PM »

Very good Don. Let me tell you a little story about the symbolism behind the card I just posted. The whole 808 series cards are based upon these cards. These are the cards that set our cards today. Pierre Maréchal - 1567 http://www.wopc.co.uk/mounthood/mareschal.html

Notice: The king has a mustache and an axe. It also interesting they used the color green. The Jack of Hearts also had a polearm but instead of a leaf; He had a dagger. It's neat the watch the evolution of the Jack of Hearts from a dagger to a leaf. It's more interesting to watch the "Suicide King". I feel sad for the jacks today. I think http://whiteknucklecards.com was correct in saying the Jacks are foot soldiers or squires. In my second deck, I want weapons and armor and shields Oh my!!!! Not the distorted Jack weapons we have today. And oh, everything is bigger in Texas! My Texas royal flush has 5 face cards. What do you got 3 courts and 2 pip cards...

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #41 on:** May 19, 2013, 03:32:10 PM »

These cards were the next step that eventually became the Bicycle 808 series of today. http://www.wopc.co.uk/history/1/2/3/4/5/6.html

They were made by C. Hewson in 1680. They did find some cards before this and the King of Hearts had an axe but this is the first image of the "Suicide KIng" http://www.wopc.co.uk/cards/oldcards.html

Notice: This is before they used the Ace of Spades as the Tax Card. Interesting he used the Knave of Clubs as his advertising card. They used all the colors equally and they did not correspond to a suit. It looks like they basically tried to fill the court cards with a lot of color especially gold. We see the first King of Clubs with an orb check out the cross. The Queens have flowers and the Queen of Spades has a specter. The Jacks have weapons and we know what they are. Notice the Jack of Clubs has an arrow and Jack of Hearts has a sword and what looks like the hilt of the sword(center, right). If you watch latter the hilt turns into a walking stick then into a leaf. I think their conspiracy theory suxs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU9WGyU4bnMthe (check out 22:10) The hilt of the sword got distorted over time like the mustache on the King of Hearts. Finally, the King of Hearts, This is the card that set this whole thing in motion for our modern 808 series, has what appears to be a sword sticking in his head. If you look below the sword, you see two seals facing away from each other. I believe that symbolizes a separate arm. So, the "Suicide King" is in fact, the "Assassinated King" That's why I gave the King of Hearts in this deck a mustache because I know what has been lost.

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #42 on:** May 22, 2013, 08:53:21 PM »

sneak peak at the new website. Hearts will be on the top left.

xela · « **Reply #43 on:** May 22, 2013, 09:19:05 PM »

Yeah Ashley and Tiffany are pretty nice...

May I ask who is doing the art for your deck?

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #44 on:** May 22, 2013, 10:35:36 PM »

She is Vivian Friedel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kt1YHdKFaI (skip to 3:00) I'm amazed how well she has interpreted my vision for the courts and pips. She has a website coming soon. I basically wanted to make the courts and pips as simple as possible to go along with the 808 series. The Jokers are a sneak peek of want I want the 2nd and 3rd deck to be.

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #45 on:** May 23, 2013, 08:33:20 PM »

These cards are the next cards which were popular at this time like the Bicycle 808 series today. I'm sure they they had different variations that did not survive today. These are make by Gibson in 1769 - http://www.wopc.co.uk/uk/gibson/index.html

Notice: The new tax card Ace of Spades. Look on the King of Hearts he has the seal on each arm and it's a bit more obvious. The sword is still like a diamond stick shape. The Jack of Hearts still has a silver hilt on his sword. And then in 1775 it was Gibson & Gisborne....its gets better!

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #46 on:** May 25, 2013, 04:37:52 PM »

The next line of cards that secedes Gibson is Joseph Hunt in 1801. http://www.wopc.co.uk/uk/gibson/gibson-hunt.html

Notice the faces are getting very distorted. The King of Hearts loss is mustache but the sword through his head looks like one. Still only 6 Pence in tax

Don Boyer · « **Reply #47 on:** May 26, 2013, 12:32:28 AM »

Quote from: sprouts1115 on May 25, 2013, 04:37:52 PM

The next line of cards that secedes Gibson is Joseph Hunt in 1801. http://www.wopc.co.uk/uk/gibson/gibson-hunt.html

Notice the faces are getting very distorted. The King of Hearts loss is mustache but the sword through his head looks like one. Still only 6 Pence to buy this deck.

Please stop writing like a playing card authority if you don't know what you're talking about. The six pence you mentioned wasn't the price of the deck - it was the additional duty charged by the Crown as a tax on playing cards. You're reading the British equivalent of a tax stamp and mixing that up with being the sale price when it was new. And you're copying the World of Playing Cards and acting as if you thoroughly researched the topic yourself when in reality you're simply parroting what someone else had to say on the subject.

If I want to see the World of Playing Cards, I know where to find it, thanks - no need to drag it here piece by piece.

Rick Davidson · « **Reply #48 on:** June 04, 2013, 04:52:20 AM »

Haha great thread

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #49 on:** August 28, 2013, 04:47:49 PM »

http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=788

I guess I'll stop with the history. All I know if you change something is must be simpler and better then the original. Cards have been around for 600 years. Only in the past 200 years has the ace ranked the highest card. I wish to change the rank of the ace to when cards were first made and better yet since most of our games are based on 5 cards I wish the Royal Flush to be special. You will see 5 court cards. the ace and ten are pip cards. If this deck is successful, I wish to make a second deck to where the (T) card is now the (T)ower card. It's like a transitional card from the courts to the pips. You may think this second deck is a chess deck. There is some truth in that with the link above. The Bishop and Cavalier are related to the Tarot Cards. The Tarot Cards have Popes....