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Sishou Deck Design - Updated 2nd October 2014

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Sishou Deck Design - Updated 2nd October 2014
« on: January 05, 2013, 02:35:18 PM »
 

alvinhy

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Hello everyone,

For those who do not already know, this project was actually put on hiatus after it was unsuccessfully funded on Kickstarter in 2013.

After a lengthly discussion with one of the respected members on this forum, I have decided to pick this project back up and finish it off. I also would like to take this opportunity to apologise to those who have supported and backed this project because I have failed you!

But to compensate, I will definitely complete the design of this deck and make it happen to get it funded.
Your input is also very much appreciated to create a better design.

So enough being said, here are the recent updates :)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 06:02:05 PM by alvinhy »
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - need critic
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2013, 02:45:32 PM »
 

hazofhorsham

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I like it, in the last few years there have been a few oriental-ish decks. We've had the red, blue, gold dragon backs, the gong and the zodiac, the game of deaths and the china towns, not to mention the legendary deck we'll soon see from DB. So you really have to push the mythical creature side of this deck.

I assume on each ace we'll see a different creature (Like phoenix on the ace of hearts) - I like that idea.

Who are you aiming at? As a card collector I love this, I love the back and the corners - however some magicians like two way backs, and I don't think this is totally two way.

Who were you thinking of printing with, and what other things would match this deck?

I love it when somebody finishes a design and brings it up for a few tweaks, it means that we can hope to see it quickly, but our inputs are valued. Keep up the good work :)
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Re: Sishou Deck Design - need critic
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2013, 02:50:19 PM »
 

alvinhy

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Thanks for your reply!
Yes you are correct the Aces will be four different mythical creatures.
On each court card depending on the suit will also feature them as well.

As for two way backs is this a thing for magicians?
I am aiming this deck for card collectors but if I can broaden my target market with magicians why not?!
I have been in contact with USPC and they are happy to print these designs for me.

As for the legendary deck on DB? what do you mean by that?
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - need critic
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2013, 03:00:31 PM »
 

hazofhorsham

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You're welcome.

The two way back thing is just a nicety - I've seen some magicians want it and most card collectors dabble in magic. I myself don't use my nice decks to do magic with but those who buy half a brick or more probably will, wait until more responds to this thread and see what the consensus is.

The legendary deck? David Blaine has a legendary deck in production, with a printer outside the USPCC. I don't know that much about it but some guys here on the discourse have received advanced copies. Heres the thread for that deck:
http://aethercards.com/discourse/playing-card-plethora/new-deck-'unnamed'-deck/
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Re: Sishou Deck Design - need critic
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2013, 03:08:14 PM »
 

xela

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The back and tuck case are stunning. I'm not a fan of the fonts used for the indices, but more specifically it's a readability issue, especially with the two's.

For the teal on the tuck case, I suggest using teal foil to make the box pop even more.
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Re: Sishou Deck Design - need critic
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2013, 07:23:42 PM »
 

John B.

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As a magician, I would perform with these. Its a subtle one way back. That is what we like. There are so many tricks we can do with that.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - need critic
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2013, 08:21:47 PM »
 

alvinhy

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Thanks for all the replies!
@John, I received a lot of feedback from magician forums they say they prefer a two way back design.
Is it the two way or one way you like?
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - need critic
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2013, 09:33:38 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I agree with much of what was said.  A little use of foil would make the box pop.  Perhaps even metallic ink on the Aces!

The readability issue isn't a huge one - only a minor tweak is needed.  You want the indices to be as quickly readable as possible.  For magicians, familiarity in the minds of spectators is important.

As far as a two-way or one-way back, it's a subtlety thing.  A poker player would never use a one-way back if they knew it was one-way.  I spotted immediately that the Chinese characters at the center made the deck one-way.  Magicians aren't necessarily opposed to one-way design - as long as the one-way indicator is extremely subtle, so that spectators would be likely to overlook it.

I'd say do with the center of your card back what Theory11 did with the center of the JAQK deck - include the characters in two orientations, both upside up and upside down.  If you want to toss in a one-way mark, make it very subtle and visible from the edge of the design so it displays in a fan.  Best option is something in the top-left or lower-right corner.  When a hand of cards is held facing the spectator with the indices visible to him or her, you'll see (or not see) the markings and know how the cards are oriented.

While that might kill the deck for the poker market, the poker market is very specialized and will generally only go for designs available in differently-colored pairs anyway.  Custom-faced decks such as this wouldn't interest them - they're highly traditional, except for some of the beer-and-pretzel neighborhood-game players.  But even they prefer two matched decks in differently-colored backs.
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Re: Sishou Deck Design - need critic
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2013, 10:09:14 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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Oooh, it looks nice! Love the one way back. One question: Are the spirals on the back 2-way, with the center emblem being the only one way element on the back? Because it would be a bit too noticeable to do tricks with the one way back if the entire back is one way.
Looks great! Can't wait to see the courts!
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - need critic
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 03:29:31 AM »
 

Lara Krystle "Lane"

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OMG! I live in Beijing ad this is by far one of the more ORIENTAL looking decks that are dubbed to be Asian -inspired!
I love the fact that you are going to incorporate the Phoenix, Dragon, Tiger, and Tortoise to this design! I am a fan of the 4 mythical beasts of china! If I am not mistaken there is a 5th mythical beast which is the huang Long or the yellow dragon.

This is a deck I am definitely going to add to my must buy!!!

So stoked! I'm not going to add on to what everyone already said about the boarders and the back design.

But I really feel strongly against the indice. The "7" upside down looks like a "4" e might want to rethink the indice design. :P

I have to really say I'm loving the THEME of this deck! ***faints***

xoxo
Lara
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - need critic
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 09:08:55 AM »
 

alvinhy

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Thanks for the critics everyone, I shall post an update of the designs as soon as possible! stay tuned!
As for the 5th mythical dragon i had no idea!

I will also be incorporating the 14 mythical weapons in chinese history to the court cards.
At the moment the court cards are drawn up. Im trying to create new court faces instead of the default to make this deck unique. It might take a while but I hope the outcome is well worth it.

As for the fonts I shall improve that a bit.

On a side note Lara, beijing is FREEEZing right now isnt it? :D

Teal SiShou deck I might also launch with the red =D
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 09:09:58 AM by alvinhy »
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - need critic
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 09:28:08 AM »
 

shz

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I don't know why, but I'm a sucker for the teal. The color is just beautiful.
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Re: Sishou Deck Design - need critic
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2013, 11:08:36 AM »
 

Lara Krystle "Lane"

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Yes Beijing is FREEZING... tai lung!

Im loving the Teal version! its like mellow porcelain.
But the red one is super classic chinese. And what is the second chinese character in the middle of the back design. I can only read "si" but I'm assuming that the other character is the word for beats but I dunno the hanyu to it.

 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - Updated Jan 6th
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2013, 12:06:42 PM »
 

alvinhy

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the second character is 獸 and its "shou".
hence the word SiShou.

Btw what do you guys think about the now two way back design?
and anyone of you know what I should do for the gaff cards?
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - Updated Jan 6th
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2013, 01:11:18 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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the second character is 獸 and its "shou".
hence the word SiShou.

Btw what do you guys think about the now two way back design?
and anyone of you know what I should do for the gaff cards?

I like the back design a lot.  I can even see an excellent way to mark the deck!  :))

Gaff cards - the most common are double backers and blank facers, with double backers leading by maybe two to one.  A double backer that has one color on each side would not only be great for color-change tricks, but it would also make magicians that much more interested in owning both colors.  You don't find those double backers very often with a deck, but they're mighty useful.

A possible gaff card set:
Red deck: Blank face (red back) and double backer (red/blue)
Blue deck: Blank face (blue back) and a duplicate of one of the cards, possibly a court card - useful for transposition tricks with a spectator-held card when you don't want to use jokers.

If you wanted to get more exotic, you can make trick-specific gaffs.
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Re: Sishou Deck Design - Updated Jan 6th
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2013, 02:04:34 PM »
 

alvinhy

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the second character is 獸 and its "shou".
hence the word SiShou.

Btw what do you guys think about the now two way back design?
and anyone of you know what I should do for the gaff cards?

I like the back design a lot.  I can even see an excellent way to mark the deck!  :))

Gaff cards - the most common are double backers and blank facers, with double backers leading by maybe two to one.  A double backer that has one color on each side would not only be great for color-change tricks, but it would also make magicians that much more interested in owning both colors.  You don't find those double backers very often with a deck, but they're mighty useful.

A possible gaff card set:
Red deck: Blank face (red back) and double backer (red/blue)
Blue deck: Blank face (blue back) and a duplicate of one of the cards, possibly a court card - useful for transposition tricks with a spectator-held card when you don't want to use jokers.

If you wanted to get more exotic, you can make trick-specific gaffs.

Thanks for the reply Don! what you mean by blank face is nothing on the card?
I guess ill go for the two colour ones so it persuades people buying both colours ahaha i posted a back of the teal colour updated above
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - Updated Jan 6th
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 08:30:10 PM »
 

Lara Krystle "Lane"

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the second character is 獸 and its "shou".
hence the word SiShou.

Btw what do you guys think about the now two way back design?
and anyone of you know what I should do for the gaff cards?



I'm loving the new two way back design much better than the one way back. :)

OI agree with Don. Put a double backer there. Since you have two versions of the deck.
A Joker reveal it also good too.

You can also think up of something totally original. Since your design will have just enough details to put something that is uniquely yours (although I dunno what that is at the moment because I literally just woke up and my brain is not working).

---update---

I was looking at the spine of the box of the SiShou and you can read it upside down as nouhsis. I don't think you meat for it to be readable uspide down. Just letting you know. :)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 09:58:45 PM by Lara Krystle "Lane" »
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - Updated Jan 6th
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2013, 11:23:39 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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Just tested the 2 way back. 看的非常好!
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - Updated Jan 6th
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2013, 11:41:45 PM »
 

alvinhy

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the second character is 獸 and its "shou".
hence the word SiShou.

Btw what do you guys think about the now two way back design?
and anyone of you know what I should do for the gaff cards?



I'm loving the new two way back design much better than the one way back. :)

OI agree with Don. Put a double backer there. Since you have two versions of the deck.
A Joker reveal it also good too.

You can also think up of something totally original. Since your design will have just enough details to put something that is uniquely yours (although I dunno what that is at the moment because I literally just woke up and my brain is not working).

---update---

I was looking at the spine of the box of the SiShou and you can read it upside down as nouhsis. I don't think you meat for it to be readable uspide down. Just letting you know. :)


Yes the tuck box is the first mock up, I am planning to update the design of it.
It has a lot of changes to be made to be perfect. One major issue is the middle colour change on the box. Do you think that it should be the same colour as the rest or the opposit colour (red + teal, teal+red)?

Just tested the 2 way back. 看的非常好!

Tested the two way back?? did you print them out or something? haha
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - Updated Jan 6th
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2013, 11:45:42 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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Tested the two way back?? did you print them out or something? haha

Nope. Just flipped the image and compared it side by side to the normal one.
I'd be tempted to print out 52 of them if I had card stock.  :)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 11:49:02 PM by MrMollusk »
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - Updated Jan 6th
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2013, 02:32:42 AM »
 

alvinhy

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Tested the two way back?? did you print them out or something? haha

Nope. Just flipped the image and compared it side by side to the normal one.
I'd be tempted to print out 52 of them if I had card stock.  :)

wow haha yeh I would like to see how the look like when fanned =D.
and I definately took some time to make sure it was a two way back :P
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - Updated Jan 6th
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2013, 03:54:55 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I like the back design a lot.  I can even see an excellent way to mark the deck!  :))

Gaff cards - the most common are double backers and blank facers, with double backers leading by maybe two to one.  A double backer that has one color on each side would not only be great for color-change tricks, but it would also make magicians that much more interested in owning both colors.  You don't find those double backers very often with a deck, but they're mighty useful.

A possible gaff card set:
Red deck: Blank face (red back) and double backer (red/blue)
Blue deck: Blank face (blue back) and a duplicate of one of the cards, possibly a court card - useful for transposition tricks with a spectator-held card when you don't want to use jokers.

If you wanted to get more exotic, you can make trick-specific gaffs.

Thanks for the reply Don! what you mean by blank face is nothing on the card?
I guess ill go for the two colour ones so it persuades people buying both colours ahaha i posted a back of the teal colour updated above

A blank face card is exactly what it sounds like - a card with the normal back, and either a totally white face or, if your faces have a background design or theme in common, a face printed with the background only, no pips or indices.

A two-color double backer is good, but don't put it into both decks.  That same red/blue card could be used in EITHER deck, getting a magician twice the mileage out of it!

Printing a duplicate of one of the other cards is something new that I've really enjoyed taking advantage of.  The Blue Crown included it (accidentally, it seems!) with the Altruism deck, both regular and "Snow Owl" versions, and HOPC included it with their NOC deck in all five colors.  In both cases, they used a queen of hearts.

There are tricks I do that really take advantage of two identical cards in a pack.  However, in most decks, the only two identical cards you're likely to find will be the jokers - and even that's not always the case.  People already expect a deck to have two jokers in it, but they don't usually expect a deck to have two Queens of Hearts!

Tested the two way back?? did you print them out or something? haha

Nope. Just flipped the image and compared it side by side to the normal one.
I'd be tempted to print out 52 of them if I had card stock.  :)

Then it's probably a good thing for you that there's a shop that sells the cardstock and many of the other tools needed to make homemade decks of cards!

http://www.lybrary.com/how-to-make-your-own-playing-cards-a-11.html

The site sells most of the specialized hardware, paper, and laminate which, when combined with some items you can find at a decent hardware or art supply store, will allow you to print cards, either standard or gaffed, from your home computer and turn them into cards that the average spectator would have a hard time telling apart from "the real deal" from USPC.

They also specialize in ebooks, and have a HUGE selection of PDFs of books on magic.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 03:57:38 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Sishou Deck Design - Updated Jan 6th
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2013, 11:22:00 AM »
 

MrMollusk

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The site sells most of the specialized hardware, paper, and laminate which, when combined with some items you can find at a decent hardware or art supply store, will allow you to print cards, either standard or gaffed, from your home computer and turn them into cards that the average spectator would have a hard time telling apart from "the real deal" from USPC.

They also specialize in ebooks, and have a HUGE selection of PDFs of books on magic.

Thanks! This would be a great way to avoid costs of a prototype deck! Or just print out the uncut sheet of a deck before release.
(Granted after you buy all the equipment and supplies, the cost for the first deck would be the same as the USPC's :P)
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - Updated Jan 6th
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2013, 06:05:09 PM »
 

alvinhy

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Would like to know what you think of the court card.
Bear in mind its not finished.
 

Re: Sishou Deck Design - Updated Jan 6th
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2013, 08:18:58 PM »
 

Lara Krystle "Lane"

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I dunno but when I saw this I immediately thought.
"why not go for a terracota soldier look?"