New KS Deck: Divine deck (By Elite Playing Cards)

[MrMollusk]

New deck on KS. Sequel to the Ritual Deck.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elitecards/divine-bicycle-playing-cards-deck?ref=live




Looks pretty nice. 

[xela]

Incoming shipping complaints.

"WAAAAH I DON'T HAVE $7 TO SHIP CARDS OVERSEAS, THIS IS A GRAVE INJUSTICE TO THE HUMAN SPECIES."

[DrianAbara]

New deck on KS. Sequel to the Ritual Deck.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elitecards/divine-bicycle-playing-cards-deck?ref=live




Looks pretty nice. 

THESE LOOK ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS.
I love how they've put that corner design thing on the faces, because I learnt how to fan with my right hand so that will look nice in fans

[Strag]

Incoming shipping complaints.

"WAAAAH I DON'T HAVE $7 TO SHIP CARDS OVERSEAS, THIS IS A GRAVE INJUSTICE TO THE HUMAN SPECIES."

I have way more than $7, I just think that $7 ($9 if you include the cost embedded in the "free" US shipping) is quite a lot. for one deck.  Ah well, I'll just wait and pick them up later and cheaper... or not at all.

[xela]

Incoming shipping complaints.

"WAAAAH I DON'T HAVE $7 TO SHIP CARDS OVERSEAS, THIS IS A GRAVE INJUSTICE TO THE HUMAN SPECIES."

I have way more than $7, I just think that $7 ($9 if you include the cost embedded in the "free" US shipping) is quite a lot. for one deck.  Ah well, I'll just wait and pick them up later and cheaper... or not at all.

On KS, you make little to no profit on one-deck international shipments, so for me for example, there was no reason to provide a cheap option, and it ended up being the right decision.

If I lost even 100 pledges by keeping my international for one deck expensive, that's like <$1000 in pledges, and potentially under $100 in profit. Meanwhile, packing and shipping the extra 100 international shipments is a huge amount of work.

Meanwhile, sell one gross to a reseller and you've made $1000, and it takes 1/100th the time to pack and send out.

[Strag]

No question... but then I would imagine margin is similar for one deck US pledges.   And, of course, assumes it's possible to get funded in that manner.  Not happening for everyone these days.

Hey, business is business and I get it.  As I said, I'll pick them up retail and pay less later, without the KS risk factor.  Win for me, but the project may not get funded.  Oh well.

Oh, and I got your deck later too

[Lara Krystle "Lane"]

L=Good deck designs...
HOLY INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING

[DrianAbara]

Pledged for 2 decks and international shipping - my first ever Kickstarter pledge! This is the beginning of the end of my wallet

[dee1orean]

I've pledged for two decks, I'm in the UK and personally have no problem paying $8 to ship a package roughly 3500 miles.

[Russell CircleCityCards]

As I have said before... I understand making a profit, that is why EVERYONE starts a KS project, including myself.

$7 for shipping one deck?  No.  Make your profit on the cards, not gouging international customers.

CCCC prides ourselves in charging customers for shipping NOT HANDLING.

[xela]

As I have said before... I understand making a profit, that is why EVERYONE starts a KS project, including myself.

$7 for shipping one deck?  No.  Make your profit on the cards, not gouging international customers.

CCCC prides ourselves in charging customers for shipping NOT HANDLING.

It's about $5 to ship one deck internationally, and $8 to ship two, and climbs from there until you hit the flat rate. Throw in shipping supply costs, and I don't see the big deal on either count charging an extra $1-2 or paying an extra $1-2. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything here, and no one is entitled to cheap shipping at all.

I also don't see the difference between paying $15 for one deck, wherein $8 is for the deck, or $15 for one deck, wherein $10 is the deck. It's the same exact kind of deck in both cases, with a different design.

The QQ over shipping rates is getting really old, especially since you can just wait until resellers get them and order from them, and in most cases receive your decks before backers do, or just buy one extra deck and get charged a non-profit shipping cost.

[Don Boyer]

Incoming shipping complaints.

"WAAAAH I DON'T HAVE $7 TO SHIP CARDS OVERSEAS, THIS IS A GRAVE INJUSTICE TO THE HUMAN SPECIES."

That's right, Alex - you spot a fire, pour on more gasoline!    Burn!  Burn!

THESE LOOK ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS.
I love how they've put that corner design thing on the faces, because I learnt how to fan with my right hand so that will look nice in fans

Yes, very true - but they'll be terrible for "blank deck" tricks.

I have way more than $7, I just think that $7 ($9 if you include the cost embedded in the "free" US shipping) is quite a lot. for one deck.  Ah well, I'll just wait and pick them up later and cheaper... or not at all.

It is a lot, no question.  The best option would be to team up with a couple of friends and pledge as one - the shipping becomes way more affordable that way.

No question... but then I would imagine margin is similar for one deck US pledges.   And, of course, assumes it's possible to get funded in that manner.  Not happening for everyone these days.

Hey, business is business and I get it.  As I said, I'll pick them up retail and pay less later, without the KS risk factor.  Win for me, but the project may not get funded.  Oh well.

Oh, and I got your deck later too

Similar, but far from the same.  A first-class envelope weighing 5 ounces (the average deck is 3.3 ounces) costs $1.70 to ship First Class with no tracking - if it's being delivered between two US addresses.  Send that same package to another country and it gets costly, judging from this random sampling of countries:

Belgium: $4.87
Brazil: $4.71
Canada $2.10 (which is why Canada shipments are usually charged less)
China: $4.87
Taiwan: $4.71
South Korea: $4.87
Mexico: $3.62
Philippines: $4.71

I hope you're seeing the trend.  Now bear in mind, this is First Class Mail postage only, without any tracking of any kind, and not counting the packing materials and the time spent filling out a Customs form for every single package.  First Class is cheap because it's slow - it can take up to a month or more in some places.  And if you want to send it by Registered Mail (which is the only method for tracking international packages), for most destinations, expect to pay about $7 more in postage cost.  I'll grant that some of the costs are already covered by the US shipping portion of the deck price, but not all of them.

Priority Mail varies in cost from place to place - it's faster and usually more costly for small-weight shipments.  However, using a flat-rate box or envelope (max. capacity 4 lbs. for International, which is maybe 13-15 decks with packing), it's possible to send several decks for much less than the price of shipping them individually.  Plus the shipper uses the special Flat Rate boxes and envelopes - saves the cost of buying their own.

Another alternative, if you want cheap shipping: make a deal with an American friend (use the STISO to find one) who's already planning to invest in the deck and ask him to increase the investment - then you send him the US price for a deck plus the postage costs.  It's not like that's never been done before.

I've pledged for two decks, I'm in the UK and personally have no problem paying $8 to ship a package roughly 3500 miles.

A ha!  Someone who understands the costs of shipping internationally! 

(...and I ain't even touching the back-n-forth between Russ and Alex...) 

[Strag]

I do understand the cost of shipping internationally (after all, I live internationally) and am well aware of actually costs since I'm actually an ex-pat American living in the UK.  However it doesn't make sense to make more of a profit off an International customer than and domestic one UNLESS you are able and willing to live without those International customers.

What I have been seeing is more and more KS decks showing up on European web sites for far less than it would have cost me to purchase through KS.  And I'm more than happy to buy my decks that way.  After all, this way I'm much more assured of getting them, I can combine shipping as part of a larger order (I'm usually getting 2-3 decks of a particular type) and, in some cases, I can even get them sooner, as most KS tend to send out International last.

I also get that the paperwork is more difficult to process, but there are ways that can be automated (years and years ago I ran the shipping department for an electronics company and managed to automate the paperwork then and it's easier now).

As to the other argument, well the fact of the matter is when I calculate cost (and I keep a spreadsheet of all my decks and what they cost me) I include shipping in, and my budget these days for a custom deck tops out at $10 including shipping. Sometimes more if I think the design is that awesome or the work warrants it (such as Aurum) but $10 is about it.  Most of the KS being launched these days are well in excess of that price and as such I won't back. 

[DrianAbara]

THESE LOOK ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS.
I love how they've put that corner design thing on the faces, because I learnt how to fan with my right hand so that will look nice in fans

Yes, very true - but they'll be terrible for "blank deck" tricks.

That's what the White Lions and their blank cards are for ^_^

[MrMollusk]

Yes, very true - but they'll be terrible for "blank deck" tricks.

Yeah, but think about how cool they'd look fanned the other way. 

[Don Boyer]

Yes, very true - but they'll be terrible for "blank deck" tricks.

Yeah, but think about how cool they'd look fanned the other way. 

That was my point - great for flourishing, somewhat less so for magic.

[10ofclubs]

Being both a hobbyist magician and a card collector, I would MUCH rather sacrifice the ability to do a blank deck trick (not one of my favorites anyways) in order to have sick reverse fans. I perform for basically the same people over and over so mixing it up with a different deck is something I do a lot.

[Don Boyer]

Being both a hobbyist magician and a card collector, I would MUCH rather sacrifice the ability to do a blank deck trick (not one of my favorites anyways) in order to have sick reverse fans. I perform for basically the same people over and over so mixing it up with a different deck is something I do a lot.

It's why I indicated only "somewhat less so" - they're far from terrible, though for my tastes the design is a little busy.  As far as different decks, you know what they say about variety being the spice of life and all... 

[Blot153]

Where are the detail pics of the Pips on the current project? I've only seen Aces so far... No detailed huge pics of the pips...
I don't think people have said enough on this thread, about how beautiful and ornate these are btw. Love em.

One more '?'...
Ritual is an Air Cushion Finish Deck... as opposed to Magic. Any reason? and will Divine be the same?

[Don Boyer]

Where are the detail pics of the Pips on the current project? I've only seen Aces so far... No detailed huge pics of the pips...
I don't think people have said enough on this thread, about how beautiful and ornate these are btw. Love em.

One more '?'...
Ritual is an Air Cushion Finish Deck... as opposed to Magic. Any reason? and will Divine be the same?

These days, Magic Finish is the standard coating for custom decks.  You actually have to request the old standard finish!  Despite the labeling, it's very possibly Magic Finish - best way to know is not just the handling difference, but the smell - MF gives off a different, slightly sharper and more chemical scent.  It weakens over time, but it remains with the deck until enough finish has worn off, by which time your cards are either translucent or in a trash can!

A deck's finish name can be whatever the designer wants it to be - Air Cushion, Cambric, Linoid, Smooth, Ivory, Vampire's Blood, whatever you want.  The only exception would be that for certain of their trademark names, you specifically need to print on either smooth or embossed ("air cushion") paper; you'd never label a textured deck's finish "Ivory", though you're free to call it "Artificial Yak Milk"...Some designers prefer the traditional names, while others go for Magic Finish, and still others call it "Premium Finish", "Performance Coating", "Performance Finish", etc.  Then there's the oddballs who use names like "Apocalyptic Finish", largely because they can!

So, despite the labels, even Ritual may have been MF.  This will almost certainly be so.  Ellusionist was printing decks with MF on them long before they changed the boxes from saying "Air Cushion Finish" to "Performance Coating" - and some now still have the old name, or the even-newer name they're using, Performance Finish.  The very first MF deck made was the Gold Arcane, and it says Air Cushion Finish on every single box - it was the "field test" deck to see how well the finish performed in people's hands.  Not the best test choice, if you ask me - why not put it on a deck that people actually open and use, rather than one they put on an altar and pray to? 

As far as commentary on the Divine deck - well, simply put, it's not to everyone's taste.  No custom deck ever really is, when you get down to it.  I'm not saying it's a bad deck at all, it's just not my style and judging from the comments thus far, I don't think I'm alone in that opinion.

[Strag]

I have the Ritual deck and I believe it's magic finish.

[Joker and the Thief]

Holy crap balls that is detailed! 

[Blot153]

Something that is evident the more I look around the interwebular, is that you can make something incredible, unique and detailed; and if it is expressive, it can be misinterpreted, or misunderstood, or altogether looked past. These things occurring do not signify success or failure. Success is measured in whether or not what you envisioned, has been brought into this world because you bled for it.

One of the most important aspects of this process for A.I., was that we knew that no matter what, come hell or high water, GalaxY CardS would be made and printed and people would get to experience them. We have something to express and I hope that no matter what, Elite keeps designing cards, because the trend line, of the level of detail for their series of decks, looks very clean and gradual and i think that there is a great place in the world of custom playing cards for just that. Hell, I think there is a need for it.

[Don Boyer]

Something that is evident the more I look around the interwebular, is that you can make something incredible, unique and detailed; and if it is expressive, it can be misinterpreted, or misunderstood, or altogether looked past. These things occurring do not signify success or failure. Success is measured in whether or not what you envisioned, has been brought into this world because you bled for it.

One of the most important aspects of this process for A.I., was that we knew that no matter what, come hell or high water, GalaxY CardS would be made and printed and people would get to experience them. We have something to express and I hope that no matter what, Elite keeps designing cards, because the trend line, of the level of detail for their series of decks, looks very clean and gradual and i think that there is a great place in the world of custom playing cards for just that. Hell, I think there is a need for it.

Judging from the Ritual deck, I assure you that this deck will find its audience.  I respect the work that went into it, despite not finding it to my tastes.

[hazofhorsham]

Just to wade in on the international shipping thing (as someone who has many times complained about it here and elsewhere) - just don't back.

I hate paying high international fees because I feel like I am footing the bill for 'FREE DOMESTIC SHIPPING' - am I actually footing the bill? No. There cost is taken from the deck, the amount of international customers is usually not enough to cover the cost of all the domestic ones. However, being the only set of customers to pay any shipping and handling leaves a sour taste.

I must say though, after about a year of whining about international shipping I've calmed down now because I realized that kickstarter wasn't what I thought it was. I assumed (through all the propaganda) that you 'pledged' on kickstarter to help a guy out, and as such you were 'rewarded' for your generosity. This is usually never the case anymore... If you think about vortex we got this forum, if you think about tendril the backers were enabled to see aurum information early and back on kickstarter for those, CCCC always do an amazing job as well, what I like about them is the actual special rewards, like the dice.

Those three companies I named in my opinion brought the community together for a common goal, to produce great decks. In return, those companies were loyal to their customers. Nowadays kickstarter acts as a presale, you order some decks 3 months in advance, most likely to add to your collection. In my opinion and judging from what alex posted earlier, I believe kickstarter for decks will end up being a resellers investment program. Let's face it as the seller you offload say 72 decks to 5 big resellers ~ $2500 made and you've five packages to ship out. As the buyer, you get the deck semi cheap (reseller price plus their profit), and you can combine shipping with all the other decks you want. Saving about a third. Who loses? Only those that can't get resellers on board.

It sucks not to be able to get involved with the kickstarter course, but from my experience you dont actually miss much, and those special exclusives are shit most times. Dice good, Chips nice (wont use, since I won't play with the deck), brick boxes lovely. Stickers fuck, crappy t-shirts piss off, a cap? No thank you. Kickstarter is dying for cards.

tl;dr
We should all stop bitching about international shipping, kickstarter sucks, I get decks from resellers and am happy about it