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Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]

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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2013, 06:08:51 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Yeah, this topic's wandering on a long, deep tangent.  Perhaps we can rein it in a bit and stay on the topic at hand: the Steamboats and New Fan Backs produced by D&D.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2013, 06:22:38 PM »
 

agera94

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The fan backs would be interesting to try out. Is there anything really different compared to say the ones by Zenneth?
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2013, 06:57:29 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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The fan backs would be interesting to try out. Is there anything really different compared to say the ones by Zenneth?

This is strictly guesswork, but I don't think Zenneth's NFBs had Magic Finish on them.  These days, Magic Finish is the default for custom decks.  I smelled it on an Ace Fulton's deck and a S&M v7 deck - it has a distinctly different scent to the standard finish they use on their mass-produced decks at USPC.  These probably have Magic Finish.  I've never smelled MF on the Gold Seal decks.

Also, Zen used a rather old, classic Bicycle Ace of Spades.  I have no idea if D&D will use the same.  And he packed his deck with a pair of gaffs: a "0 of Hearts" card and a double-backer (white-black in the black deck, all white in the white deck).  The 0H card was used for two different versions of a unique trick - the English version resulted in an upside down fan of 3, A, 0 & 7 of hearts (spells the word "love ") and I'm told that in Mandarin, the number "420" sounds like the word for love, so that version of the trick is a 4, 2 & 0 of hearts fanned upright.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2013, 01:35:22 PM »
 

shz

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Quick question....how much are the old Cincinnati steamboat decks worth?
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2013, 07:24:53 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Quick question....how much are the old Cincinnati steamboat decks worth?

Quicker question - did you look on eBay?  :))

This is a long-running brand - Cincinnati Steamboats go back many years, and as such you'd need to narrow it down to a particular time frame before checking price.  A 1925 deck and a 2005 deck will have wildly different values...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 07:26:14 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2013, 09:51:48 PM »
 

shz

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Yes, and to practically no avail, which is why asked people that were actually knowledgeable about them.
The only (hopefully) relevant info is the number in question, steamboat 999 (hoping that number can help determine the year of production).
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2013, 08:34:24 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Yes, and to practically no avail, which is why asked people that were actually knowledgeable about them.
The only (hopefully) relevant info is the number in question, steamboat 999 (hoping that number can help determine the year of production).

I found Steamboats on eBay just before writing that post; some vintage, some less so.

The number "999" is a model number, just like Congress 606, Tigers 101, and Bicycle 808.  It won't help you find the year.  The best shot you have for guess the year is looking at the tax stamp and (if unsealed) checking the Ace of Spades for the AoS code.  If you haven't checked it out yet, look over the "Fact or Fiction" sticky topic at the top of the PCP.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2013, 08:38:15 AM »
 

Card Player

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Quote
But if you're trying to tell me that the MAJORITY (greater than 50%) of either D&D's customers or T11's customers are 16-year-old boys, there's a really pretty bridge downtown I'd like to offer you with low monthly payments available...  "Main audience" and "majority" are NOT the same thing.

@ Don: In this usage I am implying "majority segment" not majority of customers (more then 50%).
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2013, 10:08:54 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Quote
But if you're trying to tell me that the MAJORITY (greater than 50%) of either D&D's customers or T11's customers are 16-year-old boys, there's a really pretty bridge downtown I'd like to offer you with low monthly payments available...  "Main audience" and "majority" are NOT the same thing.

@ Don: In this usage I am implying "majority segment" not majority of customers (more then 50%).

So, what, precisely, is the difference between "majority segment" of their customers and "majority of their customers?  Remember that by definition, "marjority" is over 50%.  Any largest segment less than 50% is a plurality and implies there's more than two groups being compared, more than two candidates running for office, etc.

I get the feeling that Mr. Jikh was simply making generalizations without using actual specific facts.  The real audience is teens with disposable income (either working teens or born of well-heeled parents) and young adults with disposable income.  In other words, their customer base is "magicians and flourishers", because that's exactly what that describes.  The magic consumer base used to skew much older until magicians like David Blaine and Criss Angel made magic popular to a whole new (and much younger) audience, especially with the "street magic" style of tricks that could be performed nearly anywhere for a small audience.  And really - who hasn't met a young adult that acts more like a teenager?  :))

EDIT: got my package from D&D yesterday, finally opened them now.  They're what you'd expect - great fresh out of the box.  I smell Magic Finish on both the NFBs and the SBs, so the smooth SBs handle nicely, perhaps better than Aladdins.  The NFBs are like any Bicycle stock/MF deck - NOC decks are the same combination.  Whether these Steamboats are better than the recent issue decks remains to be seen - the older decks have the advantage of the dimpled paper but the Magic Finish also makes a difference.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 10:21:35 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2013, 02:30:47 PM »
 

Kong

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Thank you so much! as a matter of fact, everything you said make senses. We just update the back of the deck to give it a more medieval looks. It took us a while to rework every layer but it is totally worth it. We will update our kickstarter page once a while. Please come back and give us more precious advice. We want it to be perfect the moment we hold it in our hands.
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2013, 02:52:10 PM »
 

Knobz1

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Thank you so much! as a matter of fact, everything you said make senses. We just update the back of the deck to give it a more medieval looks. It took us a while to rework every layer but it is totally worth it. We will update our kickstarter page once a while. Please come back and give us more precious advice. We want it to be perfect the moment we hold it in our hands.
Hey bud, you put this in the wrong thread.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 02:55:11 PM by Knobz1 »
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2013, 03:33:54 PM »
 

xela

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Thank you so much! as a matter of fact, everything you said make senses. We just update the back of the deck to give it a more medieval looks. It took us a while to rework every layer but it is totally worth it. We will update our kickstarter page once a while. Please come back and give us more precious advice. We want it to be perfect the moment we hold it in our hands.

Might want to double check on the thread you're posting things in before hitting "post" :P
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2013, 07:13:56 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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OK, enough with the mislaid post!  :))

Been playing more with the cards.  The NFBs are good, but not exceptionally different in handling than practically any other new custom Bike deck.  I like the gold accents on the box and the colors used on the faces - I tend to prefer darker colors.  Plus, who doesn't love the New Fan Back design?  It's among my favorite Bike backs.

The Steamboats, on the other hand, are pretty interesting.  Smooth deck, smooth handling and the stock reminds me of Tally Ho - it's firm without being overly so.  Smooth decks tend to be stiffer in general and this one's no exception, but it has good give when shuffling and I get the feeling that cardists might like this one.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2013, 10:36:49 PM »
 

sr15

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I am intrigued by the handling of the Steamboats. If it's similar to aladdins then I'd definitely be interested in getting some. For now I'll wait till a cardist does a review on them before I decide whether to get them or not. (HINT HINT CARDISTS GET TO IT)
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #64 on: January 19, 2013, 04:44:44 AM »
 

Angel_magic

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OK, enough with the mislaid post!  :))

Been playing more with the cards.  The NFBs are good, but not exceptionally different in handling than practically any other new custom Bike deck.  I like the gold accents on the box and the colors used on the faces - I tend to prefer darker colors.  Plus, who doesn't love the New Fan Back design?  It's among my favorite Bike backs.

The Steamboats, on the other hand, are pretty interesting.  Smooth deck, smooth handling and the stock reminds me of Tally Ho - it's firm without being overly so.  Smooth decks tend to be stiffer in general and this one's no exception, but it has good give when shuffling and I get the feeling that cardists might like this one.

Don, have you tried the older steamboats? If so, how do you think they compare?

Quick question....how much are the old Cincinnati steamboat decks worth?

Although they're quite hard to find on ebay (talking about the modern "old steamboats"), they normally only go for $10-20 which is surprising for a deck with that kind of apparent scarcity.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #65 on: January 19, 2013, 05:10:45 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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OK, enough with the mislaid post!  :))

Been playing more with the cards.  The NFBs are good, but not exceptionally different in handling than practically any other new custom Bike deck.  I like the gold accents on the box and the colors used on the faces - I tend to prefer darker colors.  Plus, who doesn't love the New Fan Back design?  It's among my favorite Bike backs.

The Steamboats, on the other hand, are pretty interesting.  Smooth deck, smooth handling and the stock reminds me of Tally Ho - it's firm without being overly so.  Smooth decks tend to be stiffer in general and this one's no exception, but it has good give when shuffling and I get the feeling that cardists might like this one.

Don, have you tried the older steamboats? If so, how do you think they compare?

I have some late-model Steamboats, which I think may have been made around the transition period - I'd have to go look at the box at home, but rest assured, they aren't vintage.  These are a little firmer and a bit slicker.  The smooth paper creates the added firmness - anyone who's shuffled the Cambric and Ivory varieties of the same deck knows what I'm talking about.  They really do remind me of Aladdins, or maybe a smooth-finish Tally Ho deck (a real rarity these days).  They have the flex and firmness of a Tally, but the smooth handling and fanning of an Aladdin.  They're also probably just a bit less slippery than most Magic Finish decks due to that lack of embossing on the paper - but seriously, it's not by much.

Quick question....how much are the old Cincinnati steamboat decks worth?

Although they're quite hard to find on ebay (talking about the modern "old steamboats"), they normally only go for $10-20 which is surprising for a deck with that kind of apparent scarcity.

I'm not as surprised by this.  Steamboats haven't been a major name brand for USPC in gods-know how many years.  Many if not most people alive today, if asked to name three brands of playing cards, would not think to answer Steamboats - or for that matter, they wouldn't even know the brand exists.  It's like Tally Ho in that sense, but even more unheard-of.  Outside of people on boards like this, the teeming masses rarely if ever see Tally Ho playing cards, so they have a good shot at not even knowing they exist.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2013, 06:33:54 AM »
 

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I am intrigued by the handling of the Steamboats. If it's similar to aladdins then I'd definitely be interested in getting some. For now I'll wait till a cardist does a review on them before I decide whether to get them or not. (HINT HINT CARDISTS GET TO IT)

Fiiiine, we'll get to it! :))

We will be reviewing the originals soon.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2013, 09:04:28 AM »
 

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Been playing more with the cards.  The NFBs are good, but not exceptionally different in handling than practically any other new custom Bike deck.  I like the gold accents on the box and the colors used on the faces - I tend to prefer darker colors.  Plus, who doesn't love the New Fan Back design?  It's among my favorite Bike backs.

One thing I have to give D&D a great amount of credit for is that they always package my item's very well. They use top notch packing materials that I know add to their business experiences. Every single one of my items shows up in excellent condition. NO dings and NO dents. I can't say that about all company's I buy from in the industry.

I received my order of NFB's on Wednesday (brick: 6 red, 6 blue). The decks come factory sealed in cellophane with a "BLUE" USPCC seal. I really like the old school bicycle design and fonts used. The gold trim on the box was a nice touch. I have not had the opportunity to open a deck.  I too prefer the darker colors, most importantly dark red inks used on heart and diamond suits. Very happy with this purchase.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 09:06:33 AM by Legacy »
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2013, 11:25:14 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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One thing I have to give D&D a great amount of credit for is that they always package my item's very well. They use top notch packing materials that I know add to their business experiences. Every single one of my items shows up in excellent condition. NO dings and NO dents. I can't say that about all company's I buy from in the industry.

I received my order of NFB's on Wednesday (brick: 6 red, 6 blue). The decks come factory sealed in cellophane with a "BLUE" USPCC seal. I really like the old school bicycle design and fonts used. The gold trim on the box was a nice touch. I have not had the opportunity to open a deck.  I too prefer the darker colors, most importantly dark red inks used on heart and diamond suits. Very happy with this purchase.

I concur on the packing - their stuff is practically bullet-proof.  I do believe you'll enjoy both of these decks.  The Steamboats have that "lightly aged" background D&D are fond of rather than being stark white.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2013, 06:10:55 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I've finally done a side-by-side comparison with the D&D Steamboats and the Cincinnati USPC Steamboats.

The USPC model is a good performer, with a stock I'd compare with a slightly stiffer Tally Ho - but not as stiff as Bee.  A fine workhorse of a deck.

The D&D 'boats have nearly identical shuffling characteristics to the USPC's.  Surprisingly, the stock feels thinner, even lighter.  It also has better glide, too.  I think they made (whether intentionally or not) some smart choices with the design of this deck.

The lightness of the stock is compensated for by the use of smooth paper stock, giving it that same spring.  The addition of Magic Finish more than compensates for the "cling" most smooth stocks have - I find it fans better than the original.

The one thing some might find off-putting is that the faces are that dingy pale green color like they used on the Vintage Plaids, in an effort to make them look old-ish but without making any changes to the modern faces to follow suit.

So yeah, I'd say overall the D&D version is just a little better than late-model versions of the originals.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #70 on: January 25, 2013, 10:07:37 PM »
 

PlayingKards

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If your going to buy this deck, I recommend buying it now! The price is going to go up according to d&d.
 

Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2013, 09:24:53 AM »
 

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well I bought a deck of the fans only because an original deck on the bay goes for over a hundred bucks (opened and used!) I already have a deck of original steamboats, but I am sure the D & D decks will handle nicely.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2013, 02:24:30 PM »
 

Ben K

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Quote
I have stated my opinion about D&D but just want to add how I find it ironic that the same people bashing them are ordering BRICKS from them.
@ Ben K: I'm not sure who your comments are directed at? From what I can tell, I'm the only one who mentioned buying a brick of New Fan Backs. I don't see how what I wrote about the Steamboats would be considered bashing. I certainly would not boycott D&D. I have enjoyed many of their products.
[/quote]

I wasn't directed at anyone, just speaking in general. I'm not sure but I think a few post may have been deleted.

I've finally done a side-by-side comparison with the D&D Steamboats and the Cincinnati USPC

Don, what year where your old steamboats produced? You said transition period but I am not familiar.
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #73 on: January 29, 2013, 12:07:07 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I wasn't directed at anyone, just speaking in general. I'm not sure but I think a few post may have been deleted.

Not by me.  Perhaps the author(s) edited them?
I've finally done a side-by-side comparison with the D&D Steamboats and the Cincinnati USPC

Don, what year where your old steamboats produced? You said transition period but I am not familiar.

I did a little research and learned that Steamboats were a regular USPC brand up to the mid-late '90s when they were discontinued.  Popular demand led to a reprinting of the deck at some point in the '00s.  I have that reprinting, not the old-school originals.

The transition period is when USPC shuttered the old Cincinnati plant (actually in Norwood, OH) and moved across the Ohio River to Erlanger, KY.  It's just another suburb of Cincinnati, just like Norwood, but it's in a different state - and it actually puts the company closer to the local international airport.

The transition began at some point in 2009 during the move to the new plant with brand new machines.  While they were just about fully moved in around August or so, there was a while that they were using Cincinnati-labeled tucks and putting Erlanger-printed cards in them - if you have a deck of their standard brands from around that time with a black seal rather than blue or red, there's a good chance it was made in Kentucky.

Normally this wouldn't make a big difference, except for one thing: the staff at the print shop were still learning the ropes and tweaking the new hardware.  This resulted in some inferior-quality decks, both standard and custom.  This "breaking-in" phase didn't end until sometime late into 2010, by which point they'd pretty much used up the old Cincinnati tucks and were using ones stating the Erlanger address on them.

At this point, the decks they make now, particularly the custom models, exceed what they were capable of making in Ohio on the aging equipment there.  Bicycle Standard, however, is still a little on the soft side quality-wise, likely due to a decision by management to make the decks less costly to produce.  They probably lowered the "Q-level" (quality control) at which the decks are made; the levels go from lowest, Q5, up to Q1, with each better level higher adding up to more staff manning the machines to prevent errors in printing.  Most custom decks people deal with here are made at Q1.  In addition, they've started using a slightly thinner stock for the Standards as well as many custom decks - not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but some people prefer thicker cards.  The reason for that was they were having some difficulties with the new equipment and ink transfer to the paper - they found the thinner stock worked better.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 12:07:52 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Steamboats & New Fan Backs: D&D collaborations with USPC [new decks]
« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2013, 09:42:17 AM »
 

Magic_Orthodoxy

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  • "Simul iustus et peccator"
D & D did something weird with my order and I got 2 fan backs by accident, I don't know whether I want a second fan back in blue or if I want to trade it in for the NEW steamboats, since I already have the old ones. I really love the box on these Fans though. I'd totally use these for an every day deck
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