[TXT] Magic Castle deck

[S.C.]

I hope I read every post correctly, sorry if I am confusing something further, but is the review about these?

http://www.magiccastle.com/giftshop/order.cfm?page=list.cfm&afid=&cat=0&criteria=989&startrow=1&action=showspecials&var1=&var2=&var3=&

Thanks in advance

Yes, the review is about the one on the link you posted... The 4th and newest version.

As for pics of the cartamundi version, here they are. I only have the blue one. For kicks I posted pics of the collector's Magic Castle leather card case. There is no seal on the box and both sides are identical with no card company info.

Thanks for the photos. It's kinda sad the handle poorly, I had a cartimundi deck years ago and i loved it, i cant remember which one it is though  , maybe i still have it somewhere, Ill dig around a bit. Anyway, thanks again!

[Pacis]

So, if that Cartamundi has no seal, and has one castle, the ones I saw must be cartamundi.

[blastercast]

I hope I read every post correctly, sorry if I am confusing something further, but is the review about these?

I apologize for not clarifying this, Yes it is the 4th edition one's, at the time of writing I had just bought one and not done research into previous versions :')
Once again I apologize!
These are the one's reviewed, link courtesy of Mojo_Turbo
http://www.magiccastle.com/giftshop/order.cfm?page=list.cfm&afid=&cat=0&criteria=989&startrow=1&action=showspecials&var1=&var2=&var3=&
-Benny

[DeckReview]

Well, I found a video featuring the original USPCC version of the Magic Castle deck. So that confirms the existence of 4 versions overall. It's a young Michael Ammar video. A good routine but he seemed quite nervous here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEDzEwuJez4

The identifier was the Bicycle ace of spades, 3:07. Unfortunately the box is not seen in the video.

[S.C.]

Well, I found a video featuring the original USPCC version of the Magic Castle deck. So that confirms the existence of 4 versions overall. It's a young Michael Ammar video. A good routine but he seemed quite nervous here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEDzEwuJez4

The identifier was the Bicycle ace of spades, 3:07. Unfortunately the box is not seen in the video.

Nice Find! it reminds me of the vernon revelations series! so boring but so awesome at the same time!

[Pacis]

How did you find that? wow.
So, as the box is not shown I have to buy it and then check out the ace.
But you say that cartamundi has only one castle. Don Boyer says it has 2 castles.

[Don Boyer]

Well, I found a video featuring the original USPCC version of the Magic Castle deck. So that confirms the existence of 4 versions overall. It's a young Michael Ammar video. A good routine but he seemed quite nervous here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEDzEwuJez4

The identifier was the Bicycle ace of spades, 3:07. Unfortunately the box is not seen in the video.

Nice Find! it reminds me of the vernon revelations series! so boring but so awesome at the same time!

That's exactly where the clip comes from - the YT descriptions states it.

How did you find that? wow.
So, as the box is not shown I have to buy it and then check out the ace.
But you say that cartamundi has only one castle. Don Boyer says it has 2 castles.

If you're talking CARD BACKS, the Cartamundi deck has two castles on the back.

If you're talking TUCK BOX, the Cartamundi deck has one castle on the front, one on the back.

The Paulson deck is the same, with a Paulson seal and "Hoyle-like" faces, while Cartamundi uses their own faces.  It's not inconceivable that Paulson contracted with Hoyle for the printing of their deck.  Hoyle was possibly still independent of USPC at the time the deck was made, though they might have been a subsidiary of Stancraft by then.

I couldn't clearly identify the backs on the deck Ammar used in the clip, nor could I see the Ace of Spades well - I had to watch on my phone and the clarity wasn't very high.  But it seems to be USPC I, especially when you factor in how young Ammar is and the late-'70s/early-'80s fashions.  The Magic Castle wasn't established until 1963 and at the time they were likely more interested in establishing the club and using the popular gaffs/decks of the time (a.k.a. those with Bicycle Rider Backs) than they were in creating a deck of their own.  I know nothing of the history of the place, but it would seem to be a fair guess.

Note how he went out of his way to show the ladies how his deck was an ordinary deck?  Custom cards such as those were only starting to become popular and he wanted to allay any suspicions his audience may have had.  Prior to that he probably worked mostly with Bikes, Bees, Tally Ho, etc., perhaps some casino decks or airline decks (they were still making them poker-sized then - they didn't switch to bridge-sized until passenger plane seating starting becoming "bridge-sized"...  ).

[Pacis]

I see, Don Boyer. Thanks.
So, the one with one castle in the tuck box must be cartamundi. So, no interest in buying it. I'll just go for the the one that started this topic.

[Pacis]

I can confirm blastercasts review.
Yesterday the Magic Castles arrived. Definitely a must have deck!

Both boxes are exactly the same (and the cards also, including stock and finish), with just one difference at the bottom of the boxes.

Here's a photo of that, and one photo with the joker, Ace and back:

[yoel]

Heres a few pictures of an Original "USPC 1" Deck.  I don't have any of the other magic castle decks. But these are very old and they are VERY AWESOME!

[yoel]

No problem, Don. Thanks for the reply!

Thanks for the pics, S.C.!

So, the lack of Paul Wilson's seal could tell that is not a Paul Wilson's deck? In that case, it would be a USPC I deck?

Well, until the recent custom deck craze, USPC rarely if ever sold a deck without a seal.  The USPC version 1 deck probably had a USPC seal on it.  Without having ever seen it, I couldn't say with certainty; only by deductive reasoning have I come up with this theory.  The Cartamundi deck, however, didn't have a seal, and there were no markings anywhere on the box indicating that it was made by Cartamundi.  If you didn't recognize their joker, you'd have no way to tell who made it.  It would appear that, aside from the deck seal, the Cartamundi and Paulson decks look identical - but the cards certainly don't.

(I wish someone would update Hochman's Encyclopedia with a new volume covering all American decks since 1950!)

Well here are a few more pictures confirming the first USPC Ver. of the Magic Castle Cards.  I have 3 new decks still sealed, bit of magic history actually.  These cards are from a personal collection from a well known NYC Magician.

[Don Boyer]

Well here are a few more pictures confirming the first USPC Ver. of the Magic Castle Cards.  I have 3 new decks still sealed, bit of magic history actually.  These cards are from a personal collection from a well known NYC Magician.

Which one?  There's an outside chance I know him or her!

[yoel]

Im having a lot of trouble finding more information about these cards.. Guess there are not too many left.  I would love to get more 

[Don Boyer]

Im having a lot of trouble finding more information about these cards.. Guess there are not too many left.  I would love to get more 

The big question there would be "Which version(s)?"  The current (USPC II) and the 50th Anniversary are available now in a few shops - I think Meir Yedid has them at mymagic.com.  The Cartamundi version is a waste of paper - nice looks, awful handling, embarrassingly bad.  The Paulson and USPC I are much older and would probably qualify in the vintage category, so those you need to look harder for.

As you may have noticed earlier in the conversation, there are many similarities in the earlier editions (USPC I, Paulson and Cartamundi).  USPC I has a USPC deck seal and a Bicycle AoS (can't speak for the jokers).  I've never seen the Paulsons, but I think it's safe to assume they have a Paulson deck seal.  The Cartamundi has no seal and the Cartamundi jokers - but the printer's brand name appears nowhere on the deck or tuck box.  All three have pretty similar box art, nearly identical.

Cartamundi is capable of at least acceptable work, but they take on too many jobs making shoddy crap.  The CVS-brand playing card are theirs, but at least they stick their name on it.  The house brand for Toys-R-Us, Pavilion, is also theirs - imagine some of the worst Chinese-made decks on cheap stock that isn't even uniformly white - and for that deck, no brand.  To me, no brand equals no pride; you're not willing to stand up and be recognized with your own products.

[yoel]

Well from all I hear about the Cartamundi and Paulsons not really sure id want them to use.  Maybe just to have a complete set.  Ive also been doing some digging on the USPC 1 Decks and haven't really came up with too much.

Ive actually been trying to date the deck.  The Magic Castle opened in 1962.  Tax stamps were still required until 1965 so it had to be after 65.  From what I've found most of my vintage decks are dating between the early 50's and 70's.  Alot of these decks date to early 70's so thats what I'm guessing but cant be sure.  On special runs the date code is not always printed on the AoS. 

[Don Boyer]

Well from all I hear about the Cartamundi and Paulsons not really sure id want them to use.  Maybe just to have a complete set.  Ive also been doing some digging on the USPC 1 Decks and haven't really came up with too much.

Ive actually been trying to date the deck.  The Magic Castle opened in 1962.  Tax stamps were still required until 1965 so it had to be after 65.  From what I've found most of my vintage decks are dating between the early 50's and 70's.  Alot of these decks date to early 70's so thats what I'm guessing but cant be sure.  On special runs the date code is not always printed on the AoS.

As I stated, I can't speak for the Paulson decks myself, but they are a big casino supplier in Nevada.  Casinos usually don't buy crap decks, unless they're crap casinos, and crap casinos tend to have a shorter life span.  The Cartamundis, however, are certified crap, start to finish.

Judging from the clothing and hairstyles in the Michael Ammar video where he's using a pack of the USPC I version, I'd date the deck to between the early 1970s and early 1980s.  As I said earlier, I can't imagine they had the extra funds so early in their history that they could use it on their own brand of playing cards, especially since magicians more commonly used Bicycle Rider Backs back then and it is a pretty exclusive place - have to be a member or a member's guest for most functions/events.  I'm thinking they didn't make their decks until some years after opening day, well past the tax stamp days.  It's guesswork, but it's educated guesswork.  As far as when they stopped making the USPC I deck, I don't know but it couldn't have been recently - they're VERY scarce.  You know how magicians are with their cards - use 'em up, toss 'em out, get some more, etc.  You'd stand a better chance of finding it if you joined 52 Plus Joker and became active with them.

[S.C.]

Well from all I hear about the Cartamundi and Paulsons not really sure id want them to use.  Maybe just to have a complete set.  Ive also been doing some digging on the USPC 1 Decks and haven't really came up with too much.

Ive actually been trying to date the deck.  The Magic Castle opened in 1962.  Tax stamps were still required until 1965 so it had to be after 65.  From what I've found most of my vintage decks are dating between the early 50's and 70's.  Alot of these decks date to early 70's so thats what I'm guessing but cant be sure.  On special runs the date code is not always printed on the AoS.

As I stated, I can't speak for the Paulson decks myself, but they are a big casino supplier in Nevada.  Casinos usually don't buy crap decks, unless they're crap casinos, and crap casinos tend to have a shorter life span.  The Cartamundis, however, are certified crap, start to finish.

Judging from the clothing and hairstyles in the Michael Ammar video where he's using a pack of the USPC I version, I'd date the deck to between the early 1970s and early 1980s.  As I said earlier, I can't imagine they had the extra funds so early in their history that they could use it on their own brand of playing cards, especially since magicians more commonly used Bicycle Rider Backs back then and it is a pretty exclusive place - have to be a member or a member's guest for most functions/events.  I'm thinking they didn't make their decks until some years after opening day, well past the tax stamp days.  It's guesswork, but it's educated guesswork.  As far as when they stopped making the USPC I deck, I don't know but it couldn't have been recently - they're VERY scarce.  You know how magicians are with their cards - use 'em up, toss 'em out, get some more, etc.  You'd stand a better chance of finding it if you joined 52 Plus Joker and became active with them.

I think i read somewhere that the Vernon revelations series was filmed in 1982 ( I believe that's where that clip was from). If that helps you date the deck at all.

[yoel]

Been trying to dig up some more but no such luck.  I have about a hundred or so vintage decks ranging from the 50's 70's and some even older. A lot of them are in mint condition maybe only used a few times.  The feel an finish seem very similar to the cards from the mid 70's.  They are very nice handling cards also.

I've been wondering if the date could be maked in the box similar to the Jerry's Nugget's.  Nothing a little super glue can't fix!  I'll check it out later and see what I find. 

[yoel]

Mission successful!  Here is a picture of what I found.

[Don Boyer]

Mission successful!  Here is a picture of what I found.

Awesome - we appreciate the sacrifice!

[yoel]

Mission successful!  Here is a picture of what I found.

Awesome - we appreciate the sacrifice!

No sacrifice at all.  Cards are still good and some super glue to the box you can barely tell I did anything to it!  Im just happy I picked the right side first