Embossed vs. Smooth Finish

[Zaid]

Folks,

What you do think about cards in an embossed (i.e. Air-Cushion, Magic) finish versus smooth? For my SurrealScapes deck, I want the cards to handle in a way people are used to so I'd like to specify embossed finish, but the embossed finish does detract slightly from the quality of the images.

I personally think that embossed finish cards feel higher-class than smooth finish cards, and I would suspect that smooth finish cards don't handle well, but the embossed finish does causes some problems with the images on my cards. When held at a certain angle, the embossed finish induces a lot of distruptive glare on the card and you can't see the image clearly. At a different angle, you can see the image clearly, but there is still the texture that the embossed finish introduces on the card face, and thus you don't get the image in its full crispness. I think its still okay, but since this particular deck is about the artwork itself, I want to make sure that it's given the best chance to look as good as it can while still being functional.

If you haven't seen it already, check out the Kickstarter preview here:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/274810086/1490748867?token=cde2743e

-Z

[RandyButterfield]

My designs (ORNATE Decks) aren't photographic but use a lot of subtle photoshop lighting and metallic "effects". They were printed with the embossed, textured paper and I think it actually HELPS with the details! I was worried about how small details would turn out but ended up being blown away by the print quality. I don't know what line screen USPCC prints at but I supplied Print Files that were at 400 dpi. That may have helped with the sharpness. The small details show up very nicely, even with the textured paper.

thanks, Randy

[Zaid]

I just received my mockup deck from the USPCC with the embossed finish and the problem is that since there is so much black, there really is a lot of glare on the card when viewed from a certain angle. At those angles, all you can see is the texture on the card, not the image itself. So that's what I'm worried about.

I don't think this would be a problem on cards with light backgrounds.

[Collector]

I just received my mockup deck from the USPCC with the embossed finish and the problem is that since there is so much black, there really is a lot of glare on the card when viewed from a certain angle. At those angles, all you can see is the texture on the card, not the image itself. So that's what I'm worried about.

I don't think this would be a problem on cards with light backgrounds.

Maybe you should buy a deck with Ivory (smooth) finish and compare it with your test deck (I mean dark areas of pictures). Not the best but a cheaper variant of comparative test. Or you can use Zazzle and one of your pictures for a back of cards (actually I don't know if they use Ivory finish; Don?).

[Zaid]

I just received my mockup deck from the USPCC with the embossed finish and the problem is that since there is so much black, there really is a lot of glare on the card when viewed from a certain angle. At those angles, all you can see is the texture on the card, not the image itself. So that's what I'm worried about.

I don't think this would be a problem on cards with light backgrounds.

Maybe you should buy a deck with Ivory (smooth) finish and compare it with your test deck (I mean dark areas of pictures). Not the best but a cheaper variant of comparative test. Or you can use Zazzle and one of your pictures for a back of cards (actually I don't know if they use Ivory finish; Don?).

Yes, I already have that. I did a small run of decks with Quality Playing Cards a few months and did those cards with the smooth finish. So between that deck and this mockup deck from USPCC, I can compare the two. There is no question that smooth finish makes the images look better. The question is whether making the cards with smooth finish will limit its appeal to the hardcore card people.

-Z

[RSLancastr]

This does not answer your question (in the OP), but it is related, so I will talk about it here:

As I have porobably mentioned multiple times here, I am NOT a cardist/flourisher/fanner.

In fact, I only have one functioning hand (my right), due to a massive stroke I had in 2008.

As you might imagine, this makes simply opening a sealed box of cards and looking at the cards problematic.

I pull the deck out and set it, face up, on the table or desk before me, I then take the cards - one at a time - from the stack, examine each card, and then place it, face down, in a new stack next to the face-up one.

This is where the deck's finish can be a problem for me. There are times when the top card on one of the stacks of cards will start...sliding off of the stack. If I do not catch it in time, it starts an avalanche of the rest of the cards in the stack, and they cascade to the floor. This means that I then have to use my mechanical reacher/grabber to pick those cards up, one by one, which is damned difficult to do without damaging or bending them.

So, while I imagine that certain finishes make fanning and flourishing easier, some of them apparently make what I am doing far more difficult.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.

Sorry.

[Don Boyer]

I know what you're talking about, Zaid.  With any deck finish, there will be certain angles at which the light will obscure the image on the card and show more of the card's finish surface because of how the light is being reflected.  You should try using a deck of Bicycle Gargoyles under less-than-ideal lighting - all the faces were printed with silver metallic ink...

Most people "expect" an "air cushion" finish - in other words, embossed.  Some will complain about decks that have smooth finishes, saying they look "plastic coated" and are cheaper and inferior in quality.

Nothing could be further from the truth.  Regarding "plastic coated", ALL finishes are made of some type of plastic these days, except for the starch-based finish use in a small number of USPC decks.  (Those decks are made with completely recycled paper using vegetable-based inks, meaning the deck is "green" and will decompose without leaving chemicals that don't break down easily.)

Pretty much every single CARC-designed deck made comes out in Cambric and Ivory Finish - embossed and smooth, in other words.  The smooth paper makes for a stiffer stock and there's a bit less glide between cards, which some prefer for certain circumstances.  D&D made their recent Steamboat reprints in only a smooth-surfaced version, no embossed.

The thing that will make the biggest difference for you is Magic Finish.  USPC makes only two finishes which are sold under a variety of brand names: "standard" and Magic Finish.  The "finish" in terms of texturing or smoothness USED to be applied via the finish using cotton or linen rollers to apply the coating, but these days the paper is embossed or smooth, so "air cushion finish" is actually a bit of a misnomer now.  The cushioning is in the embossing, not the finish.

But back to my point - Magic Finish is the slickest stuff USPC makes.  While most smooth-finish decks are terrible for fanning and have poor slip (major exception being the Aladdins), Magic Finish makes up for it.  I have two decks that were made with Magic Finish on a smooth paper, and they perform excellently.  Neither actually says Magic Finish on the box, but I know they were made with it and you can actually tell from the smell - Magic Finish has a distinctly different odor to it, a bit stronger than standard.  It got its start on decks much like yours, black decks with a lot of ink in the paper, as well as decks with metallic inks (while some debate whether the quantity of ink affects performance, it's known that metallic inks do have a negative impact).  The stuff is so popular, USPC made Magic Finish the default finish for ALL custom deck projects, free of charge - you actually have to ask for it if you want the standard finish.

You could easily get smooth-surfaced paper for this deck and apply Magic Finish to it without the performance suffering one bit for it.  In fact, the smooth paper, due to having a surface that's not structurally-compromised by being embossed, is firmer and stiffer than decks made identically using an embossed surface.  Dan and Dave's Steamboat reprints are amazingly light because of this - they were able to use a thin stock without compromising on flexibility and strength.  And yes, that's one of the two smooth decks I was referring to that were made with Magic Finish.  If you haven't already, pick up a pack of D&D Steamboats and you'll see what I'm talking about.  I firmly believe that you can make your deck with pretty much the same stock/finish combination and the performance would be excellent.