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Deco, by Encarded

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Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #75 on: October 29, 2013, 09:47:09 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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USPCC did a pretty good job on the print (not 100%, but close) and those details were intended to be very subtle. I wanted them to appear solid and simple from viewing distance but take some scrutiny to really see the intricacy and detail. I think they did a pretty good job bringing that to life.
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Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #76 on: October 29, 2013, 09:53:23 PM »
 

Gunshy1

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USPCC did a pretty good job on the print (not 100%, but close) and those details were intended to be very subtle. I wanted them to appear solid and simple from viewing distance but take some scrutiny to really see the intricacy and detail. I think they did a pretty good job bringing that to life.

It's definitely just a personal thing with me than. I felt that aurum did that because from across a table you couldn't see the fine line work, but from say the distance fr the eyes to a table riffle they were slightly visible.

Also love the blue you used!!! Very Miami, very fitting.
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Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2013, 10:51:19 AM »
 

BiggerDee

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I was very pleased with my first edition decks! They are beautiful and live up to the high standards that I expect from Paul's work! I can't wait to add the second printing to my collection as well!
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2013, 12:48:37 PM »
 

Phegget

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I was very pleased with my first edition decks! They are beautiful and live up to the high standards that I expect from Paul's work! I can't wait to add the second printing to my collection as well!

First edition? You mean the original print with a whopping $60 premium Paul charges for the most minuscule difference on the tuck box? Sorry if i'm ranting a bit.. i love Paul's decks as much as the next guy. But charging such a high premium for something so insignificant, especially if it wasnt intended in the first place, is a blatantly obvious money grab. I find this way worse than the multitude of lazy recoloured decks the bigger companies never fail to release. At least they price them consistently.

Justify the price tag however you like. You can say that "Oh but prices are subjective! Why don't you think of it as having the honour to own something so limited for ONLY $60!!!11 Silly Phegget hueheuheue !!111@1", but the facts remain obvious. I for one am looking forward to my '2nd printing', 'inferior' Deco set. To all you guys who purchased the superior, super limited, special '1st edition', congratulations. If it makes you happy, then by all means. That's all that matters in the end. However, no matter how often Paul chimes in on forums, how nice he has seemed, this is still a very obvious money grab. Don't avoid the elephant in the room, guys. I'm sure Paul will do great with sales and he won't let us down in terms of designs in future projects, but, i think it's quite safe to say that my respect for him has dropped tremendously.
uwotm8.
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2013, 01:16:08 PM »
 

Gunshy1

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I was very pleased with my first edition decks! They are beautiful and live up to the high standards that I expect from Paul's work! I can't wait to add the second printing to my collection as well!

First edition? You mean the original print with a whopping $60 premium Paul charges for the most minuscule difference on the tuck box? Sorry if i'm ranting a bit.. i love Paul's decks as much as the next guy. But charging such a high premium for something so insignificant, especially if it wasnt intended in the first place, is a blatantly obvious money grab. I find this way worse than the multitude of lazy recoloured decks the bigger companies never fail to release. At least they price them consistently.

Justify the price tag however you like. You can say that "Oh but prices are subjective! Why don't you think of it as having the honour to own something so limited for ONLY $60!!!11 Silly Phegget hueheuheue !!111@1", but the facts remain obvious. I for one am looking forward to my '2nd printing', 'inferior' Deco set. To all you guys who purchased the superior, super limited, special '1st edition', congratulations. If it makes you happy, then by all means. That's all that matters in the end. However, no matter how often Paul chimes in on forums, how nice he has seemed, this is still a very obvious money grab. Don't avoid the elephant in the room, guys. I'm sure Paul will do great with sales and he won't let us down in terms of designs in future projects, but, i think it's quite safe to say that my respect for him has dropped tremendously.

Somebody's for no reason lol I have the normal edition btw.
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Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #80 on: October 30, 2013, 02:39:27 PM »
 

BiggerDee

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That's why folks had the choice to purchase them if they liked. He didn't force them on anyone. It's supply and demand, and he had no trouble finding folks who wanted them. I am also getting the 2nd edition. I also have Tendril, Aurum standards, white golds, lasers, and lucite. I have everything that Federal 52 encompassed as well, including the limited black. I have every deck that Randy Butterfield has designed, including color variations. I could go on about different designers and companies. I collect, and collect different editions of what I like. It's all personal preference. You chose not to purchase them. Fine by me, it's your money, and that's what you chose to do. If paul makes a penny per deck, that's a money grab too. His design, his cards, his time and effort, him supporting his family. He can charge whatever he likes, people will vote with their wallets. i never implied that the first deck was superior, just that I have it and the design and colors are very cool together, and that folks (including me) waiting for v.2 will be pleased. Nothing more, nothing less.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 02:40:15 PM by BiggerDee »
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #81 on: October 30, 2013, 05:50:10 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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I was very pleased with my first edition decks! They are beautiful and live up to the high standards that I expect from Paul's work! I can't wait to add the second printing to my collection as well!

First edition? You mean the original print with a whopping $60 premium Paul charges for the most minuscule difference on the tuck box? Sorry if i'm ranting a bit.. i love Paul's decks as much as the next guy. But charging such a high premium for something so insignificant, especially if it wasnt intended in the first place, is a blatantly obvious money grab. I find this way worse than the multitude of lazy recoloured decks the bigger companies never fail to release. At least they price them consistently.

Justify the price tag however you like. You can say that "Oh but prices are subjective! Why don't you think of it as having the honour to own something so limited for ONLY $60!!!11 Silly Phegget hueheuheue !!111@1", but the facts remain obvious. I for one am looking forward to my '2nd printing', 'inferior' Deco set. To all you guys who purchased the superior, super limited, special '1st edition', congratulations. If it makes you happy, then by all means. That's all that matters in the end. However, no matter how often Paul chimes in on forums, how nice he has seemed, this is still a very obvious money grab. Don't avoid the elephant in the room, guys. I'm sure Paul will do great with sales and he won't let us down in terms of designs in future projects, but, i think it's quite safe to say that my respect for him has dropped tremendously.

To which I say, "So what?"

Paul is a businessman - and that's not a curse word.  He offers the same deck in different packages - no one needs to get the super-uber-ultra-deluxe edition to enjoy the cards.  The expensive packs are for collectors who appreciate those really cool tuck boxes.  But if you just plain want the cards, fine - get the cheapest ones and you'll be plenty happy.

I fail to see any issue here with this.  Paul caters to his market - and that's a bad thing?  Collectors get what they want, mere mortals get what they want, everyone's happy - this is a non-issue.
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Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #82 on: October 30, 2013, 08:13:54 PM »
 

bhong

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Ultimately, if you don't want it, don't buy it. I think for the Deco is was an accident how things worked out with a different tuckbox and not the fault of Paul. He put out a call for those interested in buying a very limited deck due to circumstances. I'm one of his Kickstarter backers and didn't think it was worth the price tag. I'm quite fine with the regular 2nd print of the tuckbox.

I think you put it best, Don. Paul is a businessman. He's offering something cool and interesting and if people want it, they can get it. It wasn't like he went down his backer list and force the first 50 people to pay him more for the first print Decos. I'm happy being a mere-mortal collector.
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #83 on: October 30, 2013, 08:47:15 PM »
 

John B.

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I thought it was a fair price and if I had the money I would have bought it as a collectors piece.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #84 on: October 30, 2013, 08:59:47 PM »
 

Phegget

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Then why do you guys hate on the big guys when they release colour changes? Calling those money grabs and Paul a justified business model. You cant pick and choose. Goddamn hypocrites.
uwotm8.
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #85 on: October 30, 2013, 09:27:49 PM »
 

bhong

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Then why do you guys hate on the big guys when they release colour changes? Calling those money grabs and Paul a justified business model. You cant pick and choose. Goddamn hypocrites.

I don't mind a colour change, but it depends on the colour. I just don't buy that I don't like. I think the difference is that Paul didn't intentionally create a v1 and v2 tuckbox on purpose to sell. The original tuckbox was scratched up pretty bad due to the metallic on the side of the box during USPCC's process so Paul ended up sending back most of the shipment of Deco playing cards to get the box design fixed up and re-printed. It ended up be an accidental and he took advantage of that.
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #86 on: October 30, 2013, 09:47:10 PM »
 

Phegget

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Difference is the unintentional prit run? Wow really. What a joke. The mistake from USPCC caused a later delivery. Paul decides to make some extra profit in selling off v1s. Totally justified, and successful as people bought them. Im not saying that he couldnt. At least with colour changes, you get a different coloured back and tuck box.. And is usually charged at normal prices/ used in promotions. Of course in the end it boils down to whether or not you want to buy it, but both are money grabs. Do not pick and choose. Dont bash on the bigger companies and praise the little guy when they are doing the same shit.
uwotm8.
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #87 on: October 30, 2013, 10:07:14 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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I have to say that I just got the cards, and they're absolutely stunning.

Can't see any problem with a later delivery. Hell, I'm still waiting for cards that were funded before the first Deco pics were even posted on  the Discourse.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #88 on: October 30, 2013, 11:59:10 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Difference is the unintentional prit run? Wow really. What a joke. The mistake from USPCC caused a later delivery. Paul decides to make some extra profit in selling off v1s. Totally justified, and successful as people bought them. Im not saying that he couldnt. At least with colour changes, you get a different coloured back and tuck box.. And is usually charged at normal prices/ used in promotions. Of course in the end it boils down to whether or not you want to buy it, but both are money grabs. Do not pick and choose. Dont bash on the bigger companies and praise the little guy when they are doing the same shit.

It's not the same as a different deck color.  That, in essence, is a different deck.  What Paul's been selling is the same exact cards from box to box to box.  The cheapest box and the costliest box have the same contents, so if you buy the cheap deck, you're not really missing a thing, unless you're one of those guys who buys cards just for the box.  That's exactly who those decks are for.  Money grab?  Nah, it's a money grab if it's something rare and UNIQUE and costly - these decks are no more or less unique than what's in the proletarian boxes the rest of the world buys.  If it tickles someone's fancy to pay that much extra for a box, more power to him or her - but you don't have to in order to get the same, exact deck, down to the last detail.  If it REALLY was a money grab, ALL the decks would be the expensive ones in the costliest boxes!

Dude, in simple terms, he has a varied customer base and he's offering something for everyone in that base.  That's no crime - that's good business.
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Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #89 on: October 31, 2013, 12:04:05 AM »
 

Gunshy1

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Don, there's no hope. This guy just wants to be mad about something even though Paul was very transparent through the entire process.
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Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #90 on: October 31, 2013, 12:07:32 AM »
 

John B.

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I hate color changes when its like Oh hey our red deck when great, lets make a blue, oh its good, lets do with borders, oh lets now do green - we wont do anymore - oh lets do a special club for black, now purple. And its just like WTF why the exact same deck just different colors. Also NOC a bunch of different colors, since thiers had no design to begin with I somewhat give it to them. If Paul was suddenly like I am going to re-print these in orange and green (color does not matter these just came to mind) and kept the exact same card design I would be just as upset with him for trying to make money off it.

What paul did was take something that could have just been a negative - printing errors if I remember right - and try to have something special for collectors. Their are people who collect mis print bills. Why not treat them just like normal bills? Its in oddity compared to the others and collectors like that. Honestly if I made a deck and this happened I would do the same as paul, now if every deck he ever makes has this problem I might wonder whats going on but I still would not be upset.

PS yes I know the black artifice was different then the rest but most of it was the exact same from what I heard.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 12:09:28 AM by John B. »
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #91 on: October 31, 2013, 12:52:12 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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PS yes I know the black artifice was different then the rest but most of it was the exact same from what I heard.

I was a bit disappointed with that deck.  The choice of white and light gray for pip colors was a mistake - too similar visually.  It's like choosing sky blue and light blue, or grass green and forest green.  The AoC was cool, though - and I got a kick out of seeing a plain AoS for once.  The jokers needed retouching, somehow - the faces look like masks against the black background.  That black background make it look very different in many ways - I'd call it the most unique among the Artifice decks.

But all that's for another topic.  We're chatting about the Deco decks here.
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Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #92 on: October 31, 2013, 01:33:14 AM »
 

DJT

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Then why do you guys hate on the big guys when they release colour changes? Calling those money grabs and Paul a justified business model. You cant pick and choose. Goddamn hypocrites.

You have a point and I get it. I also get this is a business which has been stated, money grab or not that is ultimately what business is about, transactions. It just so happens some products put out seem less well executed which makes it seem deck producers don't value their customers. But realize all of these companies would probably be considered small businesses, trying to grow in an interesting and dynamic industry.

I just think it is cool we have so many choices to choose from. Makes it easy to pass up on what I don't like. I don't get the bashing of big and small producers..... But it makes for an interesting and entertaining read @ 11:00 pm and can't sleep.

Thanks for that!

I got the Deco 2nd versions and both uncuts.... I hope they arrive soon
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 01:53:00 AM by DJT »
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #93 on: October 31, 2013, 03:05:23 AM »
 

magnacat

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i got my Deco decks and coin a few days ago... i really like them, and i get where Paul is coming from on wanting the design in the background to be visible, but not overly apparent. they look like high quality cards (well, they are HQ cards...), but when you inspect them a little closer, the details in the cards are more than they seem. i also have an awesome new coin.  :bosswalk:
i really like the changes in colors of faces, pips, and details between the two decks. these are very fitting shades of each color to compliment the differences, everything works together very well.

Then why do you guys hate on the big guys when they release colour changes? Calling those money grabs and Paul a justified business model. You cant pick and choose. Goddamn hypocrites.

silly phegget! is it that you are upset you can't have one of these awesome decks with the errors? is it that important to you? i got the "v.2" myself, and could care less that another tuck choice exists... nobody withdrew money from my account for it, so i don't care if i didn't get one. to the people that did, and like that sort of thing, i understand this, and i'm personally happy to see them offered, as it was my understanding that this wasn't his intention- it was interested people who asked him if they could possibly get one of these first-printing tucks, of which he then kept a small supply to meet these needs. boy, how could he ever do such a thing!?  >:(
i don't see how this is anything like offering color changes, as John B. said. i mean, maybe it would be similar if one of these "big guys" printed a deck and got the wrong color, mentioned it to explain a delay, and was shown interest by collectors in the "wrong" color. if they then put aside some of these decks (and very few, really) to meet this demand, it would be nothing like just switching colors because they know they can sell them.

and "G.D. HYPOCRITES"? don't you think this is a little much?  :-\ no one here has insulted you for your skewed view of the situation... learn that others are not always going to agree with you. and if the pressing of this issue was any indication, it's most likely pretty common most people aren't going to agree with you. sorry buddy, we are all welcome to our opinions, even if they are abnormal- like yours.  :(
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #94 on: October 31, 2013, 08:56:36 AM »
 

Phegget

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Wow. You guys really know how to manipulate my words. First off, i mean no disrespect. Excuse my choice of words. That's how i like to articulate and if it offends you, i can't do much about that.

Instead of writing a huge essay to convey my points, i'll keep it simple.

1- I am not butthurt about not being able to purchase the 'v1's'. Don't make it seem like i am just an angry little 13 year old that wants a 'special' edition and don't have the money to get it. Excuse the vulgar expression, but, i simply do not give a single fuck about the v1s.

2- I KNOW THAT THIS IS PURELY BUSINESS. I NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS ILLEGAL OR ANYTHING. I am not shouting, it just seems that you guys don't seem to understand anything other than what you have already locked in your brains.

3- If you justify the price tag, and are willing and able to purchase this sub-par premium product for yourself, then that's TOTALLY fine. I am not bashing on you. Again, what makes you happy in the end is ALL THAT MATTERS. I myself love Deco and Paul's other decks (especially Aurum). Once again, i am not a hater.

4- The ONLY point i was trying to get across is that, if you're complaining about the other companies creating slightly different versions and then reselling them for profit, and i mean literally crying about it, then you are absolutely hypocritical in endorsing such practice conducted by Paul. It is the exact same concept.

Don, you're a great guy and you have a worldfull of incredible information. I appreciate that a lot, especially when you take the time to inform us. However, your argument is entirely off the point. You're comparing the physical similarities between a change in tuck box vs a change in colour.. whereas my point is that they are the same in terms of money grab business model. Stop arguing about a point that i never even raised. It makes me look bad in other people's eyes even though you're not even raising a valid counter argument.

Come on guys, i hope that even if you don't agree with me, you at least see that i'm raising some valid points and not just some random guy with no hope, blindlessly hating (Yes this is directed to you Gunshy). Stop riding on Paul's dick and try to see the similarities from an objective point of view.

I have wasted way too much of my time arguing for something i find so straight forward. So, this will be the end of discussion at least from my end. How about we get on topic and post pictures, reviews, comments etc about the actual beautiful deck that is Deco?
uwotm8.
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #95 on: October 31, 2013, 09:59:01 AM »
 

BiggerDee

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For the record, I've never bashed anyone, large or small, for a color change. Everyone likes different colors so if a design is good, I'll buy my favorite color, and am happy that different folks who have a different favorite color can get their preference as well. If people want to complain about color changes, that's their right.

One thing that I don't htink has been mentioned is the potential price that Paul may have paid for those decks. Did USPCC give them to him for free, or did he have to pay for what he kept? Since they wanted the others back, and most likely paid shipping for them to come back and be destroyed, he very likely paid for those limited decks. $1, $5, $10, what difference does it make. It seems that the assumption is that they were free. That may be true, but thos opposite may be true as well.

Think of this as well...people get in line to snap up "limited" runs of 2,500 decks. JNs weren't technically "limited", and they are $450 a deck. Rarebits aren't limited, but they aren't $10 each either. To pay $30 a deck for a TRULY limited run, is  a bargain in my eyes. He's not screaming "Only 350 will ever be made!!!' while keeping the other part of the 2,500 deck run hidden in his garage and releasing them gradually, to keep prices inflated. Paul is one of the nicest and most honest designers that I have ever dealt with and for those reasons, and his great designs, I have bought a lot of his designs, and a lot of the higher-end decks and displays. He knows that I appreciate his honest and design skills by the fact that I buy, a lot, from him.

Phegget, I think you're getting so much backlash simply because you bashed a known honest designer as an outright thief. If you disagree with what he sells, fine. Don't buy it. Feel free to say that they aren't for you. Had you done that, there wouldn't have been any issue. To bash others who wanted them enough to buy them or have a strong interest, and then call the designer a thief, in 100% out of line.
Look at point 3 above, you can't even express a point. You are telling folks that they are buying a (your opinion) SUB-PAR product, mocking them spending their money on what they want, but a few words later you claim that "I am not bashing you". You type in all caps, then a few words later you claim that you aren't shouting. You call a well-respected designer the equivalent of a thief, and a money grabber, and then say that you mean no disrespect Really? There is a HUGE different between a valid discussion and debate, and a downright argumentative rant. I don't know how old you are, but you sound a lot like one of my teens. If you want to make a valid point, and open up an honest and intelligent discussion about it, you have a long way to go to learn what that involves initially.


And for the record, Paul has sold factory seconds in the past at a significant discount. The v.1 Decos aren't factory seconds, they are the few rare decks that survived a botched printing from The USPCC. Paul takes care of his customers and provides them a great product at a good value, and that's why he and his decks are so popular. NOT TO MENTION the fact that he took USPCC's mistake and turned it into an opportunity to IMPROVE the tuck for the folks who only got v.2. Paul takes care of ALL of his customers, and does the best that he can for them? You're right...he's a jerk. How dare he keep people happy.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 10:08:32 AM by BiggerDee »
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #96 on: October 31, 2013, 11:00:38 AM »
 

Phegget

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BiggerDee, I appreciate the response but again, you're manipulating my words. Basically, it comes down to this.

1- I never said you were bashing anyone.

2- Look, how many times do i have to say that i am not angry about the 60$ price tag? You mention JN and Rarebits with their inflated prices. What does that have to do? I'm am not arguing about rarity or anything that like. That was never my point! My point was simply addressed to the hypocritical comments hating on bigger companies and then praising Paul's decisions which are the same (Again, i am not talking about physical similarities either).

3- Please don't make wild assumptions that i think Paul is an "outright thief". I have never said that. You're basically shoving words in my mouth. I don't want anything to do with you shoving things in any part of me. Please stop doing that. His business model is completely legitimate and i have no problem with it.

4- I never discredited Paul's honesty.

5- I have never mocked anyone in buying Paul's product. Again, my point is directed at the hypocrites who pick and choose.

6- I clarified that i wasnt shouting when using Caps Lock. What's wrong with that? Does using Caps lock automatically make me a shouting, disrespectful 'Phegget'?

7- How is my discussion any less honest and 'intelligent' as yours? I simply have a different point of view. If you can't grasp that, and think age has any play in that determination, then, well, i don't think i'm the one that "has a lot to learn".

8- I never made the connection between second run Aurum/Tendrils and these Deco v1s?

Mate, you're completely misunderstanding what my point is. I don't know how much clearer i can make it for you to be honest. I know a few other languages and i can- spaek liek dis, if that will help you understand. For the sake of saving time, can we please all be friends, with different opinions, and get back on topic? The argument is clearly being abusive now and i don't want to rustle your jimmies anymore.
uwotm8.
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #97 on: October 31, 2013, 12:45:55 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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All right, folks, that's enough!

Phegget, BiggerDee, magnacat and anyone else who wants to continue this nonsense: take it to a new topic.  We've clogged this one quite enough.  And let's keep it civil.

Don't make me tell Mom...  :))
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 12:49:34 PM by Don Boyer »
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Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #98 on: October 31, 2013, 01:15:50 PM »
 

BiggerDee

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I, for one, have posted the last comment that I will make on it, and I agree that it's nonsense. Thanks Don.
 

Re: Deco, by Encarded
« Reply #99 on: October 31, 2013, 02:18:20 PM »
 

Paul Carpenter

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Boy, I go out of town for a day and look what happens! :)

I see both sides of things like this, but as Don mentioned I do have customers on all sides of the fence. In this unique case with Deco, I don't think a comparison to a "color change" is accurate. When we speak of color changes as "money grabs", it's because producers are taking an existing design, making a small change and printing thousands upon thousands more and selling them all. In my case, Deco was damaged. It was not sellable. If I had shipped out the first printing as-is many customers would have been frustrated and let down, and I would have implied that I didn't care about quality.

So, to avoid that, I looked through 5,000 decks of cards by hand and picked out just the few that were ok. I did not personally need to keep 60 pairs of that deck for myself so I decided to offer them to the collectors that value rarity and owning something unique. Everything has a value and trust me, it is very very hard to determine price points that balance "fair" with the "mystique/collectibility" factor.

It's nice to make money, sure, but I don't sit around and try to find ways to gouge people. Some of the things I've made haven't sold well, and maybe it was because they were too costly. So, those kind of things are losses and sit around my house until I reduce prices, give coupons, add on freebies, etc. I am proud of everything I've made but marketing is a tricky road. :)

So in the end, every one has an opinion and I certainly know that nothing will ever make every single person happy. It's impossible, but I do try to be transparent, honest, and "not evil" and so far I think that has worked out pretty well. I do greatly appreciate everyone sharing their opinions on matters like this as it does help me learn more about the market and my customers and I do aim to treat everyone well.

Thanks!

And now, back to regularly scheduled Deco-ing.
Paul Carpenter
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Tendril Ascendant & Nightfall  /  Standards /  Chancellor, Zenith, Deco, Aurum, Tendril: Sold Out