What Deck Battles Do YOU Want to See?

[Don Boyer]

The title says it all - now taking submissions for deck battle match-ups!

[Don Boyer]

You guys can't honestly tell me that you have NO ideas for a deck battle that you'd want to see??  C'mon, feed your curiosity!

[Lucky Card Company]

How about Fullton's clip joint vs Daniel Madison Rounder's??

[Don Boyer]

How about Fullton's clip joint vs Daniel Madison Rounder's??

I like your thinking, but we've already used Rounders.  I'm trying to have completely unique battles, with a possible "March Madness"-style competition to find the best deck!  If you can find me another "unused opponent" to the FCJ deck, you let me know and I'll toss it up there.  Or John will, when he takes the reins back from me!

[Joker and the Thief]

Ghost vs Guardians
Wynns vs Ace Fulton's Casino

[The Quadfather]

Vipers vs Deck One
Vintage 1800 vs Vintage Plaid
Arcane vs Steampunk
Artisans vs Sultan Republic

[Don Boyer]

Now THIS is more like it!

Ghost vs Guardians
Wynns vs Ace Fulton's Casino

GvG is nice - but which Ghost, Black Ghost or "original" Ghost (white)?  Pick one and done.

I presume you're talking about the brown Wynn's vs. AFC?  It's an interesting idea, but the Wynn deck is more of a casino deck than a custom deck, to be honest.  I'll think about that one.

Vipers vs Deck One
Vintage 1800 vs Vintage Plaid
Arcane vs Steampunk
Artisans vs Sultan Republic

All excellent suggestions - except that Bicycle Steam Punk had a matchup already and LOST.  Was there another Steampunk you were referring to?  (Please don't say Reagan McClellan's Steampunks...)  Or perhaps something else to match against Arcane?

[The Quadfather]

Vipers vs Deck One
Vintage 1800 vs Vintage Plaid
Arcane vs Steampunk
Artisans vs Sultan Republic

All excellent suggestions - except that Bicycle Steam Punk had a matchup already and LOST.  Was there another Steampunk you were referring to?  (Please don't say Reagan McClellan's Steampunks...)  Or perhaps something else to match against Arcane?

I was just thinking the theory11 steam punks, bronze or silver, but if its been done it doesn't matter.

I think the toughest one would be the sultans v artisans. Very similar decks, and about the same level of customisation.

[Joker and the Thief]

White ghost vs guardians

[Don Boyer]

I think the toughest one would be the sultans v artisans. Very similar decks, and about the same level of customisation.

Agreed.  I like that one a lot.

White ghost vs guardians

Excellent.  I now have about a week-and-a-half of matchups.  Anyone else wanna chime in? 

[John B.]

Jerry nuggets vs Big gun.

[Don Boyer]

Jerry nuggets vs Big gun.

There's a few inherent problems with this matchup, not the least of which being:

• 1) Jerry's Nuggets are quite rare and expensive.  Many of the decks out there won't even be opened, lest they lose their aftermarket value.  As a result, only a few people here will have handled them.  I personally only touched one briefly at CARC about a month ago - just a quick pass through the deck, nothing more.
• 2) Jerry's Nuggets are not a custom deck.  Like the Wynn's, they're a casino deck, though in this case one that ended up in the souvenir shop.

The modern custom playing card industry is generally considered to have started with the release of the Bicycle Black Tiger by Ellusionist.  Prior to that, none of these other "majors" were in the deck business - T11 was created by a former E employee, D&D weren't in the deck business, The Blue Crown and HOPC were glimmers in Alex's and Kevin's eyes and the Split Spades hadn't yet seen the light of day.

Were there custom decks before that?  Of course there were.  But that one release defined and changed the shape of the playing card market into what we all know and love today.  It wasn't even the first-ever "black deck", but it's the one that had the most market penetration at the time it came out, with the first printing selling out at light-speed; blink and you would have missed it.

I'm generally trying to use these criteria for setting up the match-ups:

• 1) It has to fit in that post-Black-Tigers era.  If the deck is vintage, relatively few people will own it.
• 2) It can't be a generally-available brand (such as standard-backed, standard-colored Aladdin, Bicycle, Bee, Tally Ho etc. without a single custom feature and ordered by the printer, not by an independent producer/designer).  Vintage Arrcos would be a no, but modern ones would be a yes.
• 3) It has to be a genuine custom deck, as opposed to one designed for casino use.  I might allow the brown signature Wynn's because they sold at Theory11, but that's about it.  No Sands Casino, no Bally's, no Caesar's Palace, etc., canceled or uncanceled.
• 4) I'm also trying to stay away from decks made specifically for magic.  A secret one-way back is permissible, and in a few cases (like Legends, Phoenix Apocalypse, the Jill Deck and Madison Players, to name a few) I'll allow marked cards, but most gimmick decks I'm leaving out.  The collecting community as a whole is less interested in them and there's way too many to keep track of.
• 5) Lastly, and this is a loose criteria, it has to be a deck that's not so insanely rare and hard to find that almost no one will own one for comparison purposes.  This would include anything with an extremely low circulation, particularly if it's no longer available at retail prices.  White Centurions would fit the bill as too rare, while Gold Arcane wouldn't.  White Gold Seal New Fan Backs would be a borderline case, since they're slightly more rare than the White Cents but Zenneth Kok does still offer them for sale, including special discounted bundles he periodically releases.

Granted, John can go ahead and change these criteria to his heart's content when he returns - it's his board.  But that's what I'm using.

[Don Boyer]

C'mon, guys - there's got to be more decks you want to see face off against each other.  Pick something "modern" (anything equal in age to or younger than Ellusionist's Bicycle Black Tigers) that's hasn't already faced off before.  Previous face-offs can be found here.

I would like to see this go to a NCAA-style playoff, though I'd probably make totally random pairings instead of using a branching system going from one tier to the next.  To do that, we need 32 winners - as of the end of Battle 15 (due to a tie in Battle we'll have 16 winners so far.  Maybe I'll even talk with Alex about making a REAL prize for something, like coming closest to choosing the winners, random draw like this one for the final four, etc.

I'd choose them all myself, but some people have been complaining that no matter how old or new of a deck I pick, they don't have it!  Plus I really want you guys to feel invested in this, rooting for your favorites just like it was the NCAA.

[Don Boyer]

I'm putting out a desperate call - WHAT DECKS DO YOU WANT TO SEE BATTLE?

I could easily pour through my collection coming up with match-ups, but many would be obscure enough that you'd be scratching your heads, especially the newbie collectors.  Tell me what you've got and what you want to see go at it, and I'll set up the fight card.

My match-up criteria are previously posted.  Summarized:

• Made around or after Bicycle Black Tigers - no vintage.
• Genuinely custom, not standard-issue.
• Not insanely rare.
• Not a casino deck.  Exception: if a magic/cardistry shop like T11 or Lee Asher sold it, I'll allow it.  Jerry's Nuggets STILL don't qualify, because they're vintage and insanely rare.
• Not a magic-only type of deck: not gaffed, gimmicked, etc.
• Not previously featured in a battle.

[John B.]

the 2 heritage series.

[MrMollusk]

Artifice Tundra VS Silver Monarchs

Stranger & Stranger VS Bicycle Alchemy

Fathom VS Aqua Transducer

Dr. Leon VS Toto's Bar

Luxury Crown VS Aurum

Phantom VS Enigma

Aristocrat Banknote VS Erdnase Acorn Back

[Don Boyer]

the 2 heritage series.

There were three Heritage Series sets - which two did you want to face off?  And technically it's called the Heritage Design Series.

So, just all four decks vs. all four decks?  Don't you think that might be a little boring?  The decks are pretty much as close to Bicycle-standard and identical as they get other than the back designs, which are historically-accurate copies of old Bicycle designs.  It's like comparing two identical books with different dust jackets.  On top of that, they're really more like in-house designs rather than custom designs.

What do you folks think?  Is this a match-up you'd find of interest?  Tell me you want it and I'll do it.

Artifice Tundra VS Silver Monarchs

Stranger & Stranger VS Bicycle Alchemy

Fathom VS Aqua Transducer

Dr. Leon VS Toto's Bar

Luxury Crown VS Aurum

Phantom VS Enigma

Aristocrat Banknote VS Erdnase Acorn Back

Now THAT'S a set of fight cards, right there!  Awesome choices!  I just have to check on the age of the Dr. Leon deck - it's possible that it's too old to fit the criteria, and they are really hard to find.  I had a devil of a time finding mine.

Which Bicycle Alchemy did you want to compare Stranger and Stranger to?  There's two so far.  Perhaps both?

I like the Silver Monarchs vs. Artifice Tundra - but I already covered Monarchs as a whole.  Maybe I'll make a real head-to-head and compare them to Ghost.  I've been avoiding comparing two decks from the same producer, but it's bound to happen in the playoffs anyway, so why wait?

[MrMollusk]

the 2 heritage series.

There were three Heritage Series sets - which two did you want to face off?  And technically it's called the Heritage Design Series.

So, just all four decks vs. all four decks?  Don't you think that might be a little boring?  The decks are pretty much as close to Bicycle-standard and identical as they get other than the back designs, which are historically-accurate copies of old Bicycle designs.  It's like comparing two identical books with different dust jackets.  On top of that, they're really more like in-house designs rather than custom designs.

What do you folks think?  Is this a match-up you'd find of interest?  Tell me you want it and I'll do it.

Artifice Tundra VS Silver Monarchs

Stranger & Stranger VS Bicycle Alchemy

Fathom VS Aqua Transducer

Dr. Leon VS Toto's Bar

Luxury Crown VS Aurum

Phantom VS Enigma

Aristocrat Banknote VS Erdnase Acorn Back

Now THAT'S a set of fight cards, right there!  Awesome choices!  I just have to check on the age of the Dr. Leon deck - it's possible that it's too old to fit the criteria, and they are really hard to find.  I had a devil of a time finding mine.

Which Bicycle Alchemy did you want to compare Stranger and Stranger to?  There's two so far.  Perhaps both?

I like the Silver Monarchs vs. Artifice Tundra - but I already covered Monarchs as a whole.  Maybe I'll make a real head-to-head and compare them to Ghost.  I've been avoiding comparing two decks from the same producer, but it's bound to happen in the playoffs anyway, so why wait?

Thanks! Been wanting to get those out.
But... battle 14 was the Ghosts, right? You already covered those, too.
The Alchemy England seems most consistent with the art style.

I think the Leon deck was released around 2007? I'm not sure. But you can pick them  up here for $20.
http://dealingdeuces.com/playing-cards/dr-leon-black-playing-cards.html

[Don Boyer]

the 2 heritage series.

There were three Heritage Series sets - which two did you want to face off?  And technically it's called the Heritage Design Series.

So, just all four decks vs. all four decks?  Don't you think that might be a little boring?  The decks are pretty much as close to Bicycle-standard and identical as they get other than the back designs, which are historically-accurate copies of old Bicycle designs.  It's like comparing two identical books with different dust jackets.  On top of that, they're really more like in-house designs rather than custom designs.

What do you folks think?  Is this a match-up you'd find of interest?  Tell me you want it and I'll do it.

Artifice Tundra VS Silver Monarchs

Stranger & Stranger VS Bicycle Alchemy

Fathom VS Aqua Transducer

Dr. Leon VS Toto's Bar

Luxury Crown VS Aurum

Phantom VS Enigma

Aristocrat Banknote VS Erdnase Acorn Back

Now THAT'S a set of fight cards, right there!  Awesome choices!  I just have to check on the age of the Dr. Leon deck - it's possible that it's too old to fit the criteria, and they are really hard to find.  I had a devil of a time finding mine.

Which Bicycle Alchemy did you want to compare Stranger and Stranger to?  There's two so far.  Perhaps both?

I like the Silver Monarchs vs. Artifice Tundra - but I already covered Monarchs as a whole.  Maybe I'll make a real head-to-head and compare them to Ghost.  I've been avoiding comparing two decks from the same producer, but it's bound to happen in the playoffs anyway, so why wait?

Thanks! Been wanting to get those out.
But... battle 14 was the Ghosts, right? You already covered those, too.
The Alchemy England seems most consistent with the art style.

I think the Leon deck was released around 2007? I'm not sure. But you can pick them  up here for $20.
http://dealingdeuces.com/playing-cards/dr-leon-black-playing-cards.html

You are correct.  I haven't done the Black Ghost deck yet, though...  And there has to be another black-and-white (mostly white) deck out there for this battle...

Again, I have to ask - Bicycle Alchemy 1977 version I or II - or both?

DDeuces has the black deck - but not the yellow one...

[MrMollusk]

the 2 heritage series.

There were three Heritage Series sets - which two did you want to face off?  And technically it's called the Heritage Design Series.

So, just all four decks vs. all four decks?  Don't you think that might be a little boring?  The decks are pretty much as close to Bicycle-standard and identical as they get other than the back designs, which are historically-accurate copies of old Bicycle designs.  It's like comparing two identical books with different dust jackets.  On top of that, they're really more like in-house designs rather than custom designs.

What do you folks think?  Is this a match-up you'd find of interest?  Tell me you want it and I'll do it.

Artifice Tundra VS Silver Monarchs

Stranger & Stranger VS Bicycle Alchemy

Fathom VS Aqua Transducer

Dr. Leon VS Toto's Bar

Luxury Crown VS Aurum

Phantom VS Enigma

Aristocrat Banknote VS Erdnase Acorn Back

Now THAT'S a set of fight cards, right there!  Awesome choices!  I just have to check on the age of the Dr. Leon deck - it's possible that it's too old to fit the criteria, and they are really hard to find.  I had a devil of a time finding mine.

Which Bicycle Alchemy did you want to compare Stranger and Stranger to?  There's two so far.  Perhaps both?

I like the Silver Monarchs vs. Artifice Tundra - but I already covered Monarchs as a whole.  Maybe I'll make a real head-to-head and compare them to Ghost.  I've been avoiding comparing two decks from the same producer, but it's bound to happen in the playoffs anyway, so why wait?

Thanks! Been wanting to get those out.
But... battle 14 was the Ghosts, right? You already covered those, too.
The Alchemy England seems most consistent with the art style.

I think the Leon deck was released around 2007? I'm not sure. But you can pick them  up here for $20.
http://dealingdeuces.com/playing-cards/dr-leon-black-playing-cards.html

You are correct.  I haven't done the Black Ghost deck yet, though...  And there has to be another black-and-white (mostly white) deck out there for this battle...

Again, I have to ask - Bicycle Alchemy 1977 version I or II - or both?

DDeuces has the black deck - but not the yellow one...

Whoop. Sorry. V2. (I forgot they were both called "England")



I think the more macabre style fits in better with the S&S deck.

I could find the yellow deck pretty easily. It's on Amazon.
For me, it was the black deck that was hard to find.

[Don Boyer]

What I might do is pit the Ultimate (Stranger & Stranger) deck from D&D versus all four decks made by Anne Stokes under the Bicycle name.  What do you think?

EDIT: I just realized, MrMollusk - for your suggestion on the Aristocrats, I can't use them.  They're a standard USPC brand and not a custom-ordered or custom-designed deck.  Drat.

[MrMollusk]

What I might do is pit the Ultimate (Stranger & Stranger) deck from D&D versus all four decks made by Anne Stokes under the Bicycle name.  What do you think?

EDIT: I just realized, MrMollusk - for your suggestion on the Aristocrats, I can't use them.  They're a standard USPC brand and not a custom-ordered or custom-designed deck.  Drat.

That'd actually be a pretty cool match. Considering the Stranger and Stranger deck had such a massive gradient of design, more themes from the Alchemy deck might balance the design levels out.

Huh. If that's the case, then the Banknotes are the classiest standard deck out there. 

[Don Boyer]

Huh. If that's the case, then the Banknotes are the classiest standard deck out there. 

Pretty much!  There's actually a few different Banknote Backs for Aristocrat playing cards.  The brand was originally created by the American Banknote Company when they decided to get into the playing card business.  In short order, they were assimilated into the USPC collective's hive mind - apparently, resistance was futile!    But you can tell by the fine detail work that the designer who created it likely had experience creating banknotes, stock certificates, etc. or at the least dreamed of doing so.  I forget the exact number of this back, but I think it's Banknote Back #3.  I've seen perhaps four different models of Banknote Backs.

The Aristo reprints are my deck of choice for poker night.

[Nurul]

Black raider deck vs bee stingers - two out of print decks ..
Bicycle faded vs bicycle series 1800
Chinatowns vs dragon backs

[Don Boyer]

Black raider deck vs bee stingers - two out of print decks ..
Bicycle faded vs bicycle series 1800
Chinatowns vs dragon backs

The middle one I can't do, at least not in this round - the Series 1800 decks have already competed in Battle 15, where they lost versus D&D's Vintage Plaids.  Maybe next time around.  The other two are pretty good.  By the way, the Stingers aren't technically out of print - we discovered that T11 is selling reprints.  The black deck can be found with markings stating it was printed in Erlanger when it was originally printed before the move from Cincinnati.  There's a topic about it in here somewhere.