Hardwood Playing Cards (KS)

[Don Boyer]

Ever see a SHUFFLE-ABLE deck of wooden playing cards?

Well, you have now...

Comes in TWENTY-FIVE VARIETIES - including a tarot deck!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1247257383/hardwood-playing-cards

[John B.]

I really like it, but $50 for a poker deck, I just can not justify that in my budget.

[Soliloquy]

They're very pretty, but what about splinters?

(Would make awesome coasters though.)

[Michael]

Hmm I wonder if the stock will be soft and springy or stiff but a full deck is expensive... For a paper and plastic deck. For something like this, I think the $50 is pretty reasonable. Not really something I want, but reasonably priced.

[Don Boyer]

They're very pretty, but what about splinters?

(Would make awesome coasters though.)

Except for the tarot deck - unfinished cedar...  But it would be great for keeping away moths!

I'm thinking sleight of hand gets a little more challenging with these cards...but the biggest question to me is, if they're going so far to create wooden cards, why no back designs?  All the backs are blank, just the wood grain pattern on them.  This also renders them all effectively marked decks, since no two wood grains would be the same...

38 pledges for a full deck, and 8 pledges for a tarot deck.  Those tarot decks alone were nearly enough to push this project past its goal.  But that crazily low goal makes me wonder - are these guys really trying to become a start-up or are they already established and were just looking for a new place to sell their goods.  Kickstarter really is becoming more and more of a marketplace than a place for the little guy (or gal) to make their dream a reality.

[chris69uk]

Couldn't Simone do these as a printed deck? Although not the same, could look quite nice!

[Michael]

Couldn't Simone do these as a printed deck? Although not the same, could look quite nice!

I can see a "Bicycle Hardwood" deck but I think it would be too quirky for me. I think this deck works because of the sheer fact that it is made of wood and still (supposedly) completely shuffleable and useable.

[xela]

Couldn't Simone do these as a printed deck? Although not the same, could look quite nice!

Who is Simone?


I think these are real neat. Personally I would frame them or implement them in some kind of display/art piece. Let's face it, if you want durable cards for play, plastic is the way to go.


EDIT: The poker chips have piqued my interest moreso than anything else.

[Robert Adams]

A nice novelty.

At the price, I'd agree that they are a decent collectable but I wouldn't play with them and of course wouldn't be practicing sleight of hand.  Perhaps best for tarot but then I don't really approve of tarot!

I really love wood and cards so I'm a little tempted but actually I'm not that keen on the artwork and only have a use for the standard deck. So in the end I probably won't support. Still, I think it's a decent idea.

I'd guess that the project is driven by the guys wood-work skills rather than a specific passion for designing cards. They do already have a company selling really nice looking games (website via kick-starter) and so the capital investment in producing their products may be little more than buying some good wood. I guess this has been reflected honestly in the funding target.

So I'd agree with Don's suspicion that Kick Starter here is being used as a cheap marketing tool. I don't, however think that this is in too bad taste and I wish him all the best.

[xela]

You guys only THINK KS is a cheap marketing tool?

That's basically ALL it is now, at least in the card world.

Take a look at the designers who have made a huge success but still use KS instead of self-funding or doing pre-orders off of their site. Or heck, look at the UC deck which is on KS solely to bring people onto the forums.

Of course, there is NOTHING wrong with this. For the Vortex, 90% of my pledges were from the KS community. Granted, the big buyers were from the card community, but virtually everyone else was not. Heck, when I launched this forum, we had literally hundreds of people that signed up and were new to the card world. They got brought in via my deck, and later got brought in from other people's decks.

These days all KS is, is a way to get fast and easy cash even when you have more than enough money to self-fund. Just look at that scumbag piece of trash mom who raised money for her kid to take programming lessons or some stupid shit (despite the whole project being against TOS). Or the Veronica Mars movie which set records on KS despite everyone involved having millions upon millions to spend on the movie.

Sorry for the off topic post.

[chris69uk]

Couldn't Simone do these as a printed deck? Although not the same, could look quite nice!

Who is Simone?

Someone... Its my stupid phone .
It may just be a novelty idea for someone to make a custom made printed version, a design I have never seen before, and a lot cheaper than made from actual wood. Cracking idea making it from wood, but how durable would these be?

[BibelotGames]

Hi! We're the creators of this Hardwood Playing Cards project.

Before anything else, we want to thank Don for posting this thread, without which we might not have found this site! (Thank you! *smiles*)

We love talking about our cards and it sounds like some of the people posting here have great questions that we can answer! It also sounds like the people here _really_ know their cards, and we'd love to hear your insights about about our cards/project, too! We're absolutely not here to push or coerce, just hoping to answer some questions and get some feedback! Yay!

We've made notes of the criticisms already expressed, and are very appreciate of them! (We know the cards are expensive - sorry! - and it's okay if you don't like the artwork! *smiles*)

And to answer some of the questions:

1) We spend 10 minutes every day shuffling our very first prototype deck. We have yet to get a splinter or break a card from this, 6 months and counting! The only ill effect is that Kristi (co-creator) does have a small callus forming from all the shuffling.

2) These cards are springy for wood, but much more stiff than traditional playing cards as they are about 3 times the thickness. The below youtube video shows the cases, shuffling, and breaking, which we hope sheds more light onto how the cards "feel" and move. (yes, you can laugh at our complete lack of shuffling abilities! *smiles*)

3) Some of our early prototypes had designs etched into the backs, but we found that removing material from both sides of the cards _greatly_ reduced their structural integrity. *sadness* We don't intend for these cards to REPLACE paper and plastic playing cards, but we DO expect them to function like them!!! *smiles* And yes, they are effectively marked cards, so we only recommend them for friendly games! *smiles* In practice, we find it hard to remember the specific markings of all 54 cards in a standard deck, but one or two usually do stand out.

4) Robert is exactly right - we need KS to purchase the materials. This is our third KS project and we're still in the process of transitioning from "hobby" to "business". This makes launching a new product line difficult, especially because we never seem to remember that we're suppose to get a salary. But mainly, for us, KS is about the experience, not just the funding. We love running projects, making new friends, and helping our original concept grow into something better thanks to the insight and suggestions of that huge community.

5) As for durability, these cards can take a lot more than we ever expected. We're still performing tests on them, and will be posting more videos of how they hold up to extreme circumstances. But, the below video really does convey the basics! *smiles*

6) As far as slight of hand, we don't have any skill at all in this art-form, so we can't actually speak to this. However, if there are any volunteers, we'd love to send a couple sample cards to someone who knows what they're doing!

Thanks for reading all of this (wow - we really talk WAY too much! *smiles*) Please let us know if you see any way we can make these cards better! We'd love to hear from you!

~Kristi and Shea
http://youtu.be/7oRpkMvJmO0

[Michael]

Thanks for answering a few of our concerns directly on this thread and on the forum! I appreciate it and I'm sure a bunch others here do as well. It's good to know that your team has been testing te durability for a very good amount of time. A lot of what you said answered questions I didn't even know I had

Although I like the idea and if it truly is as functional as you say, then would love to have it in my collection. The price is a little on the high side for my taste but I might get over that just to have a something like this in my collection!

[BibelotGames]

*smiles* Our pleasure to help out! *smiles* Yay!

Of course we'd love for you to join our project - we try to make it super fun and exciting, from launch to the last package delivered, but it's absolutely okay if that's not "in the cards"! *wink*

As functional as we say...? Well, lets face it, these cards are our babies, and we love them. So we're extremely biased. But we truly have not received a bad review (and yes, we'd say so!). We'd rather have less backers who are 100% happy than tons of backers who end up unsatisfied! *smiles*

We also have this review. He shared with us that the joker broke on the second take, so we REALLY don't suggest bending these cards like he does! *smiles*

[Don Boyer]

Hi! We're the creators of this Hardwood Playing Cards project.

Before anything else, we want to thank Don for posting this thread, without which we might not have found this site! (Thank you! *smiles*)

You're welcome.  As one of the moderators on this site (and specifically as the moderator of the Playing Card Plethora) I try posting about pretty much every new custom deck we can find.  Yours certainly qualifies as custom!

As you've noticed, we're an opinionated bunch here when it comes to cards - none of it is personal and all of it is a sign of how much we care about our favorite hobby and art form.  Not to mention that for some of us, playing cards are the tools of our trade.

6) As far as slight of hand, we don't have any skill at all in this art-form, so we can't actually speak to this. However, if there are any volunteers, we'd love to send a couple sample cards to someone who knows what they're doing!

Thanks for reading all of this (wow - we really talk WAY too much! *smiles*) Please let us know if you see any way we can make these cards better! We'd love to hear from you!

~Kristi and Shea
http://youtu.be/7oRpkMvJmO0

No, you don't talk too much.  You haven't read any of my windbag posts yet! 

If what you're saying is accurate about the cards being triple the thickness of a standard deck, that alone would rule it out from a lot of sleight-of-hand card magic in the first place.  It would be a lot like trying to palm a card from one of those super-jumbo decks where the cards are four times the normal poker size!  Some of the most common moves, easily hidden with cards of a normal thickness, would be completely revealed by using cards that thick, and moves requiring a slight bend laterally across the card could end up breaking the card.

Have you considered "reinforcing" your cards?  Ordinary playing card paper is made from a "sandwich" of two paperboard layers held together by a layer of graphite-infused glue applied under pressure.  The layers and the glue combine to stiffen the card while retaining the flexibility and the graphite keeps the cards from being translucent (without it, holding a card up to the light would reveal the printing on the other side).  If you took the layers of wood you're using now and applied them so the grain of each layer crosses the other, in either a cross or an "X" pattern, you could end up with a stronger yet still pliant card, perhaps even strong enough to allow laser etching on the back as well as the front.  Of course, I'm assuming you haven't already tried this, so if you have, well - how did it go? 

[BibelotGames]

I try posting about pretty much every new custom deck we can find.

*smiles* From all of the creators then: many thanks for your help in spreading the word! (same thanks to everyone who share a KS link!)

As you've noticed, we're an opinionated bunch here when it comes to cards - none of it is personal and all of it is a sign of how much we care about our favorite hobby and art form.  Not to mention that for some of us, playing cards are the tools of our trade.

We love opinionated and passionate people! Yay! *smiles* And, we've grown some pretty thick skin, so no worries. We're not running away just yet! *wink*

We're pretty sure these cards are not suited for sleight-of-hand and many other moves. But, until we find out, we're just guessing! *smiles* Your assessment sounds 100% accurate, but we still want to see! *smiles*

Have you considered "reinforcing" your cards?  Ordinary playing card paper is made from a "sandwich" of two paperboard layers held together by a layer of graphite-infused glue applied under pressure.  The layers and the glue combine to stiffen the card while retaining the flexibility and the graphite keeps the cards from being translucent (without it, holding a card up to the light would reveal the printing on the other side). If you took the layers of wood you're using now and applied them so the grain of each layer crosses the other, in either a cross or an "X" pattern, you could end up with a stronger yet still pliant card, perhaps even strong enough to allow laser etching on the back as well as the front.  Of course, I'm assuming you haven't already tried this, so if you have, well - how did it go? 

Indeed we have, and this is exactly how our cards are built. They are made from 2 types of wood with an acrylic core. The backs are a themed wood, with grain running top to bottom, then a thin layer of bonding acrylic, and finally the fronts, which are made of extremely flexible Okoumé with grain running side to side.

The acrylic core is laser safe (no toxic fumes produced), resistant to shattering, and bonds extremely well to wood. A very handy side effect is that the acrylic actually inhibits splintering in the wood, so knocking the edges around does not result in chipping, splitting, or cracks.

This layering is the only way to achieve a wood playing card that is more than decoration. However, we would either need to sacrifice contrast (by etching less deeply), or increase thickness (by adding more layers) to etch on both sides. We decided on this middle ground. The wood backs are lovely and provide a simple, yet visually stunning decoration, and the thickness is enough to add a delightfully unexpected weight while still allowing the cards to function. *smiles*