You are Here:
Casino Decks - my recent obsession

Author (Read 6689 times)

Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« on: April 11, 2013, 08:25:45 AM »
 

Benjam

  • True Member
  • *
  • 57
    Posts
  • Reputation: 3
Hey there everyone, just asking a question...
So recently I've gotten into some research on casino decks, cause I like the idea of playing round with them for some reason, it's kind of inexplicable... I guess, seeing as casino decks like Wynns and Nuggets are too expensive for me to be looking at for using purposes, they're more collectors' items now, I've looked into some other cool casino decks, but I thought I might ask here to find out where the best place to buy casino decks would be, and what decks I should look at...
Essentially, I'm being pretty picky, but here's what I'd like in a casino deck:
- Uncancelled / sealed
- NOT borderless.
On top of that, I really like tech art faces (especially the Jumbo ones seen on Brown Wynns)

So yeah, I'm looking for cards like these links down below, except with BORDERS... stinger backs are cool too, I'm just interested to see what you guys come up with...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Bee-Binions-Horse-Shoe-Casino-Playing-Card-Decks-/200601545321?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb4c8aa69&_uhb=1#ht_756wt_1348

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3-Bee-Wynn-Casino-SCRIPT-Brown-Blue-Red-Playing-Cards-Sets-Ohio-Made-Decks-/350670056529?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a5906c51&_uhb=1#ht_746wt_1348
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2013, 10:07:15 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
So yeah, I'm looking for cards like these links down below, except with BORDERS... stinger backs are cool too, I'm just interested to see what you guys come up with...

As in, "I don't wanna do the research so I'll ask you guys to do it for me"...?  :))

Some of the aftermarket card retailers sell uncanceled casino decks.  I'd advise not using Dealing Deuces - overpriced and has an odd habit of wrapping his decks in foil and charging more for them.  Because it's foil.  Really.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2013, 02:13:32 PM »
 

kings

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • 7
    Posts
  • Reputation: 1
I have also recently become obsessed with uncanceled casino cards and have been buying them right and left. A few good place I have found is lee asher (also expensive) and spinettis gaming supplies (very cheap). Also here.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/dollarium/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=200&_trksid=p3686

Im sure I am going to be corrected with this but I have found more of the Aristocrat casino decks are stinger back but I do not know if that is a fact but its something to keep in mind.
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2013, 06:37:18 PM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
I have also recently become obsessed with uncanceled casino cards and have been buying them right and left. A few good place I have found is lee asher (also expensive) and spinettis gaming supplies (very cheap). Also here.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/dollarium/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=200&_trksid=p3686

Im sure I am going to be corrected with this but I have found more of the Aristocrat casino decks are stinger back but I do not know if that is a fact but its something to keep in mind.

This link's a bit more to the point - it's the Dollarium's playing cards listings only:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_nkw=PLAYING+CARDS&_sacat=0&_odkw=&_ipg=25&_osacat=0&_armrs=1&_ssn=dollarium

I'm not sure if they call it a "Stinger Back" on an Aristocrat deck.  Y'know, Bee, Stinger - it's a theme...  :))  But yes, the fade-to-white border does appear a good deal on Aristos because, simply put, they look cool.  If it was a Bee Stinger, the pattern would be Diamond Back and the ovals in each of the corners would have a little bee inside instead of all four suit pips.

I like casino decks - but strongly dislike Tech Art faces.  Catch-22?
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2013, 08:02:20 PM »
 

Angel_magic

  • Forum Regular
  • *
  • 101
    Posts
  • Reputation: 27
Have you ever seen the Bee Tech arts (my avatar picture)? Those are by far my favorite casino decks. I love the design, but they're so very hard to find (although I've managed to pick up 2 in my time) so i'm still debating whether or not to open one. Probably going to save it for a special occasion.
Check out my thread with a BUNCH of rare decks and accessories for sale!
http://www.playingcardforum.com/index.php?topic=11812.0
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2013, 08:14:20 PM »
 

Benjam

  • True Member
  • *
  • 57
    Posts
  • Reputation: 3
Thanks for the help guys :) yeah dollarium's store is really great, lots of good looking uncancelled decks (and yeah, I'll definitely stay away from dealing deuces hahaha)...
I've never heard much about Aristocrat club special decks (like the ones on dollarium's store with the "stinger" backs or whatever they call them on Aristocrat decks)... do you guys know anything about how they handle in comparison to the Bee casino decks?
And Angel_magic, yeah I've seen those cards and I love the way they look, but as you said, they're very hard to find and they're probably very expensive... so that's a shame :P
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2013, 08:48:15 PM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:

I've never heard much about Aristocrat club special decks (like the ones on dollarium's store with the "stinger" backs or whatever they call them on Aristocrat decks)... do you guys know anything about how they handle in comparison to the Bee casino decks?

Aristocrat stock is softer and less thick than Bee Casino.  A slightly stiffer version of the same stock is used on Tally Ho decks these days.  It's good stuff, really.  If you've ever handled the Aristocrat Banknote 727 reprints, they handle the same.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2013, 04:32:43 AM »
 

Benjam

  • True Member
  • *
  • 57
    Posts
  • Reputation: 3

I've never heard much about Aristocrat club special decks (like the ones on dollarium's store with the "stinger" backs or whatever they call them on Aristocrat decks)... do you guys know anything about how they handle in comparison to the Bee casino decks?

Aristocrat stock is softer and less thick than Bee Casino.  A slightly stiffer version of the same stock is used on Tally Ho decks these days.  It's good stuff, really.  If you've ever handled the Aristocrat Banknote 727 reprints, they handle the same.

Oh I didn't know about that haha that they're the same stock as the Aristocrat Banknote reprints... I have to say though, maybe the Bee Casino decks would be better, I'm not a huge fan of thin, soft stocks like that. It can be good, but I dunno, not all the time.
My favourite cards at the moment are Bee Watermelons (RJRTC)... do they have the same stock as the casino Bee decks? They're supposed to be much thicker than the Aristocrat stock, right?
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2013, 12:51:07 PM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:

I've never heard much about Aristocrat club special decks (like the ones on dollarium's store with the "stinger" backs or whatever they call them on Aristocrat decks)... do you guys know anything about how they handle in comparison to the Bee casino decks?

Aristocrat stock is softer and less thick than Bee Casino.  A slightly stiffer version of the same stock is used on Tally Ho decks these days.  It's good stuff, really.  If you've ever handled the Aristocrat Banknote 727 reprints, they handle the same.

Oh I didn't know about that haha that they're the same stock as the Aristocrat Banknote reprints... I have to say though, maybe the Bee Casino decks would be better, I'm not a huge fan of thin, soft stocks like that. It can be good, but I dunno, not all the time.
My favourite cards at the moment are Bee Watermelons (RJRTC)... do they have the same stock as the casino Bee decks? They're supposed to be much thicker than the Aristocrat stock, right?

Aristocrat stock is not that much thinner than Bee Casino - it's thicker than Bicycle stock, though.  Not that it matters anymore, since most custom deck designers are offered a "caliper range" described by USPC as being either Bicycle or Bee Casino, with no precise measure in-between.  There's even overlap between the two.

You want to really compare them?  Get a pack of Aristos and a pack of Bee Casino and stack them up side-by-side.  If you have access to one, measure them with a caliper.  But you're still going to get variances that would render any differences moot.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2013, 02:18:20 PM »
 

magimago

  • Junior Member
  • *
  • 23
    Posts
  • Reputation: 4
What is the thickest stock on USPCC cards ?
(apart from Ghosts)
Game or Thrones is addicting
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2013, 05:06:18 PM »
 

sprouts1115

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Discourse Deity
  • *
  • 502
    Posts
  • Reputation: 9

  • Facebook:
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2013, 07:54:43 PM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
What is the thickest stock on USPCC cards ?
(apart from Ghosts)

As always, the heaviest stuff they offer is Bee Casino.  I hear it's very popular with casinos.  Hence the name.  :))
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2013, 09:44:17 PM »
 

xela

  • Queen of Clubs
  • *
  • 2,475
    Posts
  • Reputation: 171
  • Aspire. Conceive. Create.

  • DeviantArt:

  • YouTube:
If you ever visit Vegas, let me know. I know of several places that sell uncanceled casino decks. They were hard as tit balls to find.

My biggest scores were from antique shops. I talked to owners of booths and got some amazing stuff from Vegas casinos. I had to sort through hundreds of garbage decks, but I did eventually find a few hidden gems. Off the top of my head, I found Dunes, Golden Nuggets, and Sahara decks. Sealed in near perfect condition. Outside of casino decks, I also found vintage 80s Bikes, 90s Bikes, 60s Pinochle Arrco's, Virginia Slims, and tons more. They were all $1-10 each.

The most heart wrenching thing I found was several bricks of Gnugs and Jnugs stacked in the back of a dude's shop. They were opened, in horrifying condition and pretty much worthless trash. I asked him about it, he said he and his buds used it for card games for years before he opened his shop. I told him they were worth $100-300 each if they were sealed, and I don't think he ever believed me. I told him to look them up on eBay.

tl;dr: Nobody here in Vegas knows the value of vintage cards. If you ever visit, spend a day card hunting, you will find some sweet swag.
Forum Founder.
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2013, 09:51:10 PM »
 

Benjam

  • True Member
  • *
  • 57
    Posts
  • Reputation: 3
If you ever visit Vegas, let me know. I know of several places that sell uncanceled casino decks. They were hard as tit balls to find.

My biggest scores were from antique shops. I talked to owners of booths and got some amazing stuff from Vegas casinos. I had to sort through hundreds of garbage decks, but I did eventually find a few hidden gems. Off the top of my head, I found Dunes, Golden Nuggets, and Sahara decks. Sealed in near perfect condition. Outside of casino decks, I also found vintage 80s Bikes, 90s Bikes, 60s Pinochle Arrco's, Virginia Slims, and tons more. They were all $1-10 each.

The most heart wrenching thing I found was several bricks of Gnugs and Jnugs stacked in the back of a dude's shop. They were opened, in horrifying condition and pretty much worthless trash. I asked him about it, he said he and his buds used it for card games for years before he opened his shop. I told him they were worth $100-300 each if they were sealed, and I don't think he ever believed me. I told him to look them up on eBay.

tl;dr: Nobody here in Vegas knows the value of vintage cards. If you ever visit, spend a day card hunting, you will find some sweet swag.

That is actually the most heart wrenching thing I've ever read hahaha that is just... terrible. But yes I would love to go to Vegas, not just for card hunting haha however I guess I'll have to wait till I'm 21 to actually make the trip worthwhile!

As for everyone else's replies, thanks it really helps haha finding out more about casino decks :) still another question though, what is it about the Wynn decks in particular that made them so sought after for flourishers? Do they differ from other Bee Casino decks in terms of their stock / finish / handling? Or is it purely aesthetic? And also, does anyone know if Bee RJRTC Watermelons use the Bee Casino stock, or just regular Bee stock? Because I have some Bee Watermelons, it would be good if I could get an idea of exactly what a Bee Casino stock is before I buy Bee Casino decks!
I know the answer to that question probably won't be very straightforward, but I appreciate the replies :D
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2013, 10:00:39 PM »
 

xela

  • Queen of Clubs
  • *
  • 2,475
    Posts
  • Reputation: 171
  • Aspire. Conceive. Create.

  • DeviantArt:

  • YouTube:
If you ever visit Vegas, let me know. I know of several places that sell uncanceled casino decks. They were hard as tit balls to find.

My biggest scores were from antique shops. I talked to owners of booths and got some amazing stuff from Vegas casinos. I had to sort through hundreds of garbage decks, but I did eventually find a few hidden gems. Off the top of my head, I found Dunes, Golden Nuggets, and Sahara decks. Sealed in near perfect condition. Outside of casino decks, I also found vintage 80s Bikes, 90s Bikes, 60s Pinochle Arrco's, Virginia Slims, and tons more. They were all $1-10 each.

The most heart wrenching thing I found was several bricks of Gnugs and Jnugs stacked in the back of a dude's shop. They were opened, in horrifying condition and pretty much worthless trash. I asked him about it, he said he and his buds used it for card games for years before he opened his shop. I told him they were worth $100-300 each if they were sealed, and I don't think he ever believed me. I told him to look them up on eBay.

tl;dr: Nobody here in Vegas knows the value of vintage cards. If you ever visit, spend a day card hunting, you will find some sweet swag.

That is actually the most heart wrenching thing I've ever read hahaha that is just... terrible. But yes I would love to go to Vegas, not just for card hunting haha however I guess I'll have to wait till I'm 21 to actually make the trip worthwhile!



How long do you have to wait? I remember waiting for 21 like it was the second coming of christ. Being able to drink, gamble, and hang out with adults instead of college freshman is underrated.
Forum Founder.
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2013, 10:04:56 PM »
 

Benjam

  • True Member
  • *
  • 57
    Posts
  • Reputation: 3
If you ever visit Vegas, let me know. I know of several places that sell uncanceled casino decks. They were hard as tit balls to find.

My biggest scores were from antique shops. I talked to owners of booths and got some amazing stuff from Vegas casinos. I had to sort through hundreds of garbage decks, but I did eventually find a few hidden gems. Off the top of my head, I found Dunes, Golden Nuggets, and Sahara decks. Sealed in near perfect condition. Outside of casino decks, I also found vintage 80s Bikes, 90s Bikes, 60s Pinochle Arrco's, Virginia Slims, and tons more. They were all $1-10 each.

The most heart wrenching thing I found was several bricks of Gnugs and Jnugs stacked in the back of a dude's shop. They were opened, in horrifying condition and pretty much worthless trash. I asked him about it, he said he and his buds used it for card games for years before he opened his shop. I told him they were worth $100-300 each if they were sealed, and I don't think he ever believed me. I told him to look them up on eBay.

tl;dr: Nobody here in Vegas knows the value of vintage cards. If you ever visit, spend a day card hunting, you will find some sweet swag.

That is actually the most heart wrenching thing I've ever read hahaha that is just... terrible. But yes I would love to go to Vegas, not just for card hunting haha however I guess I'll have to wait till I'm 21 to actually make the trip worthwhile!



How long do you have to wait? I remember waiting for 21 like it was the second coming of christ. Being able to drink, gamble, and hang out with adults instead of college freshman is underrated.

Well I'm turning 18 in August! Being an Australian though, I can drink, gamble and do everything here once I turn 18 xD unlike in the US, where you have to wait till 21 to do all that stuff!
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2013, 11:55:58 PM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
As for everyone else's replies, thanks it really helps haha finding out more about casino decks :) still another question though, what is it about the Wynn decks in particular that made them so sought after for flourishers? Do they differ from other Bee Casino decks in terms of their stock / finish / handling? Or is it purely aesthetic? And also, does anyone know if Bee RJRTC Watermelons use the Bee Casino stock, or just regular Bee stock? Because I have some Bee Watermelons, it would be good if I could get an idea of exactly what a Bee Casino stock is before I buy Bee Casino decks!
I know the answer to that question probably won't be very straightforward, but I appreciate the replies :D

The brown Wynn decks were reputed to have better handling, specifically for cardistry.  Theory11 was selling them for a while, which contributed to their popularity and scarcity.  There should still be a cardistry video up on the page for brown Wynns at T11's store.  Note that it was only the brown Wynn decks with the solid-color backs that were believed to have superior handling - the other colors and patterns for some reason did not.  I wouldn't read anything too big into that - it could be as simple as a difference in temperature and humidity in the plant the day they were printed.  Just as no two print runs are 100% identical down to the last detail, so are no two print runs of the same deck in different colors.

I can't say with certainty whether the Watermelon Bees were standard or casino stock in the Bee range.  I suspect they're casino stock. Now, however, if measured by the standards they apply to new custom deck printings today, they'd be considered "in the range of" Bee Casino whether they were made with standard or casino stock, because they no longer offer a standard Bee stock.

If you really want to check on the performance of a Bee Casino stock, besides getting a casino deck you could pick up a CARC-designed Bee Erdnase (with the exception of the Erdnase 216), Professional Bicycle (Rider or Skull & Bones Back), Ask Alexander or Bee Erdnaseum deck.  Also suitable would be the Bee and Bicycle decks designed by Richard Turner - the Bees are tough to find, but the Bicycles (they're often called "Bicycle Gold Seal" because of the gold sticker on the back of the box) can still be had for around $5 a pack at most card dealers, available in red and blue.  All of those decks I listed above are made on Bee Casino stock and additionally are also traditionally cut, like most casino decks.  Most of the CARC-designed decks come in two finishes, Cambric and Ivory, the difference being embossed or smooth stock texture.  The Bee Erdnase 216 is an exception because of the use of a unique, thinner stock and custom-designed finish, both of which were created under the guidance of CARC founder William Kalush; they aren't anything like a standard Bee Casino deck of today.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 11:56:26 PM by Don Boyer »
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2013, 04:17:20 AM »
 

Benjam

  • True Member
  • *
  • 57
    Posts
  • Reputation: 3
As for everyone else's replies, thanks it really helps haha finding out more about casino decks :) still another question though, what is it about the Wynn decks in particular that made them so sought after for flourishers? Do they differ from other Bee Casino decks in terms of their stock / finish / handling? Or is it purely aesthetic? And also, does anyone know if Bee RJRTC Watermelons use the Bee Casino stock, or just regular Bee stock? Because I have some Bee Watermelons, it would be good if I could get an idea of exactly what a Bee Casino stock is before I buy Bee Casino decks!
I know the answer to that question probably won't be very straightforward, but I appreciate the replies :D

The brown Wynn decks were reputed to have better handling, specifically for cardistry.  Theory11 was selling them for a while, which contributed to their popularity and scarcity.  There should still be a cardistry video up on the page for brown Wynns at T11's store.  Note that it was only the brown Wynn decks with the solid-color backs that were believed to have superior handling - the other colors and patterns for some reason did not.  I wouldn't read anything too big into that - it could be as simple as a difference in temperature and humidity in the plant the day they were printed.  Just as no two print runs are 100% identical down to the last detail, so are no two print runs of the same deck in different colors.

I can't say with certainty whether the Watermelon Bees were standard or casino stock in the Bee range.  I suspect they're casino stock. Now, however, if measured by the standards they apply to new custom deck printings today, they'd be considered "in the range of" Bee Casino whether they were made with standard or casino stock, because they no longer offer a standard Bee stock.

If you really want to check on the performance of a Bee Casino stock, besides getting a casino deck you could pick up a CARC-designed Bee Erdnase (with the exception of the Erdnase 216), Professional Bicycle (Rider or Skull & Bones Back), Ask Alexander or Bee Erdnaseum deck.  Also suitable would be the Bee and Bicycle decks designed by Richard Turner - the Bees are tough to find, but the Bicycles (they're often called "Bicycle Gold Seal" because of the gold sticker on the back of the box) can still be had for around $5 a pack at most card dealers, available in red and blue.  All of those decks I listed above are made on Bee Casino stock and additionally are also traditionally cut, like most casino decks.  Most of the CARC-designed decks come in two finishes, Cambric and Ivory, the difference being embossed or smooth stock texture.  The Bee Erdnase 216 is an exception because of the use of a unique, thinner stock and custom-designed finish, both of which were created under the guidance of CARC founder William Kalush; they aren't anything like a standard Bee Casino deck of today.

Great answer as always :) if it weren't for you guys I never would have realised how complicated the whole range of stocks and finishes is xD
Well I guess the notion I'm getting from your responses is just to try round a few different casino decks and see what I like, from the Aristos to the Bees... I actually have one of the CARC Bee Erdnase decks, it's in Ivory finish though (I didn't realise cause I picked it up at the magic shop here in Melbourne, Australia), so it's not ideal, but it does give me an idea of the Bee Casino stock :)
Anyway, I'm still interested in those Wynns above all other casino decks, perhaps I'll post an ISO thread in the STISO forum to see if anyone's got a bunch they're willing to sell off at a decent price... what price do you think I should try and look for when it comes to Wynns? I see a lot of prices between $40 and $60 for Brown Wynns, but I did once see Angel magic selling a Red and Violet Wynn deck for a mere $25 a set! I'm so bummed I missed out on that opportunity...
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2013, 05:01:40 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:

Great answer as always :) if it weren't for you guys I never would have realised how complicated the whole range of stocks and finishes is xD
Well I guess the notion I'm getting from your responses is just to try round a few different casino decks and see what I like, from the Aristos to the Bees... I actually have one of the CARC Bee Erdnase decks, it's in Ivory finish though (I didn't realise cause I picked it up at the magic shop here in Melbourne, Australia), so it's not ideal, but it does give me an idea of the Bee Casino stock :)
Anyway, I'm still interested in those Wynns above all other casino decks, perhaps I'll post an ISO thread in the STISO forum to see if anyone's got a bunch they're willing to sell off at a decent price... what price do you think I should try and look for when it comes to Wynns? I see a lot of prices between $40 and $60 for Brown Wynns, but I did once see Angel magic selling a Red and Violet Wynn deck for a mere $25 a set! I'm so bummed I missed out on that opportunity...

Today, for most custom deck orders, USPC will give you two choices of stock (Bicycle or Bee Casino), two texture choices (smooth or embossed) and two choices of finish ("standard" and Magic) and that's it.  Plain and simple.  Major companies they're willing to work with on stock variations and finish variations, but if you're some guy who just closed his first Kickstarter project, you get the short end of the choices stick.

Ivory Bee Erdnase is not a bad choice, really.  There are casinos that actually use and even prefer smooth-finish stocks.  Don't be surprised if you do indeed find smooth or "Ivory" finish casino-branded models.  The smooth decks, not having the slightly-weakened surface integrity of an embossed deck, are noticeably stiffer and harder to shuffle - some people like the stiffer cards more.

As far as getting a bunch at a decent price - I wouldn't go crazy chasing down brown Wynn decks like that, honestly.  They're terrifically expensive.  Perhaps one or two for the collection is great, but if you're buying it to put to good use, get something that doesn't cost about a dollar a card!  There's plenty of other alternatives out there that won't cost you an arm and a leg.

As you know, in the US, USPC is the proverbial 800-pound gorilla in the playing card market - and this holds true for casino orders as well.  However, there are a few other players out there.  Gemaco is one - the name usually appears with a "superbar" over the "a", making the pronunciation geMAYco.  They're actually a wholly-owned subsidiary of USPC, but they're still operated independent of the "mother ship", dealing primarily in the casino market - they probably catch the casinos that decided they couldn't afford USPC/Bee!  Print quality is OK, but the handling on most Gemaco decks I've encounter is terrible.  Unless someone specifically recommends them (or you don't care about performance, just the appearance), avoid them.

There's another company, Paulson, that's casino-only - I can't speak much for them, since most Paulson decks I've ever seen were used and canceled.  Alex would know better.  I understand they've been around a while, though - you don't survive if you keep making crap cards, right?

Lastly, there's Cartamundi.  (At least lastly for me - I'm sure there's more that I never heard of, but as I've never heard of them, I can't speak about them, really, now can I?  :)) )  They're based in Belgium but have operations here in the US - I'm pretty sure they print in this country as well.  The quality can be VERY hit-or-miss, usually more of a miss when compared to USPC.  They also print non-casino decks, many licensed properties - they currently hold licenses for Star Wars, Harry Potter and James Bond (they made the actual decks used in the casino tournament scenes of "Casino Royale", and offered them for sale).  The last pack of theirs I handled was the previous generation of Magic Castle decks - and they were awful, mediocre print quality and a finish not even a mother could love.

I mention them because what I know of them - frankly, I've been wrong before.  I wanted you to know these print companies exist, and gave you my assessments of them thus far, but for most of them my experience is rather limited, especially when compared to USPC.  Just know that they're out there and be prepared to evaluate them for yourself - you may agree completely, partially or not at all with what I've said of their work.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2013, 05:21:54 AM »
 

Benjam

  • True Member
  • *
  • 57
    Posts
  • Reputation: 3

Great answer as always :) if it weren't for you guys I never would have realised how complicated the whole range of stocks and finishes is xD
Well I guess the notion I'm getting from your responses is just to try round a few different casino decks and see what I like, from the Aristos to the Bees... I actually have one of the CARC Bee Erdnase decks, it's in Ivory finish though (I didn't realise cause I picked it up at the magic shop here in Melbourne, Australia), so it's not ideal, but it does give me an idea of the Bee Casino stock :)
Anyway, I'm still interested in those Wynns above all other casino decks, perhaps I'll post an ISO thread in the STISO forum to see if anyone's got a bunch they're willing to sell off at a decent price... what price do you think I should try and look for when it comes to Wynns? I see a lot of prices between $40 and $60 for Brown Wynns, but I did once see Angel magic selling a Red and Violet Wynn deck for a mere $25 a set! I'm so bummed I missed out on that opportunity...

Today, for most custom deck orders, USPC will give you two choices of stock (Bicycle or Bee Casino), two texture choices (smooth or embossed) and two choices of finish ("standard" and Magic) and that's it.  Plain and simple.  Major companies they're willing to work with on stock variations and finish variations, but if you're some guy who just closed his first Kickstarter project, you get the short end of the choices stick.

Ivory Bee Erdnase is not a bad choice, really.  There are casinos that actually use and even prefer smooth-finish stocks.  Don't be surprised if you do indeed find smooth or "Ivory" finish casino-branded models.  The smooth decks, not having the slightly-weakened surface integrity of an embossed deck, are noticeably stiffer and harder to shuffle - some people like the stiffer cards more.

As far as getting a bunch at a decent price - I wouldn't go crazy chasing down brown Wynn decks like that, honestly.  They're terrifically expensive.  Perhaps one or two for the collection is great, but if you're buying it to put to good use, get something that doesn't cost about a dollar a card!  There's plenty of other alternatives out there that won't cost you an arm and a leg.

As you know, in the US, USPC is the proverbial 800-pound gorilla in the playing card market - and this holds true for casino orders as well.  However, there are a few other players out there.  Gemaco is one - the name usually appears with a "superbar" over the "a", making the pronunciation geMAYco.  They're actually a wholly-owned subsidiary of USPC, but they're still operated independent of the "mother ship", dealing primarily in the casino market - they probably catch the casinos that decided they couldn't afford USPC/Bee!  Print quality is OK, but the handling on most Gemaco decks I've encounter is terrible.  Unless someone specifically recommends them (or you don't care about performance, just the appearance), avoid them.

There's another company, Paulson, that's casino-only - I can't speak much for them, since most Paulson decks I've ever seen were used and canceled.  Alex would know better.  I understand they've been around a while, though - you don't survive if you keep making crap cards, right?

Lastly, there's Cartamundi.  (At least lastly for me - I'm sure there's more that I never heard of, but as I've never heard of them, I can't speak about them, really, now can I?  :)) )  They're based in Belgium but have operations here in the US - I'm pretty sure they print in this country as well.  The quality can be VERY hit-or-miss, usually more of a miss when compared to USPC.  They also print non-casino decks, many licensed properties - they currently hold licenses for Star Wars, Harry Potter and James Bond (they made the actual decks used in the casino tournament scenes of "Casino Royale", and offered them for sale).  The last pack of theirs I handled was the previous generation of Magic Castle decks - and they were awful, mediocre print quality and a finish not even a mother could love.

I mention them because what I know of them - frankly, I've been wrong before.  I wanted you to know these print companies exist, and gave you my assessments of them thus far, but for most of them my experience is rather limited, especially when compared to USPC.  Just know that they're out there and be prepared to evaluate them for yourself - you may agree completely, partially or not at all with what I've said of their work.

Thanks again :) yeah I realise that going after Wynns (probably the red / violet ones rather than the brown ones) could be difficult, there's just something about the design I love xD anyway, I'll see how I feel about buying Wynns later hahaha maybe I'll do some scouring for some...
And yeah I've heard of all those brands, but never really heard anyone give me a run down of their quality, so thanks for that! It's true though, knowing that nearly always the USPC's quality is superior, and safer in terms of knowing what you're going to get, I've never bought from a different company. I have considered picking up an Anglo deck from Sweden, but I'm not so sure yet...

Also, while I'm here, I don't really want to start a new thread, but do you guys know much about the Las Vegas Club playing cards? They're pretty vintage, not sure exactly when they're from however.. I saw them on dealingdeuces for like $40, but I'm seeing some on ebay, sealed, in an auction for around $5 at the moment... here's the link to the auction (if these are highly prized cards, please don't tell me they're shit and win the auction for yourself ;) ) haha I'm sure you guys wouldn't do that to me...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rare-Las-Vegas-Club-Casino-Playing-Cards-Poker-Deck-Red-/140951338236?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d15abcfc&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1363
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 05:23:33 AM by Benjam »
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2013, 10:01:59 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:

Thanks again :) yeah I realise that going after Wynns (probably the red / violet ones rather than the brown ones) could be difficult, there's just something about the design I love xD anyway, I'll see how I feel about buying Wynns later hahaha maybe I'll do some scouring for some...
And yeah I've heard of all those brands, but never really heard anyone give me a run down of their quality, so thanks for that! It's true though, knowing that nearly always the USPC's quality is superior, and safer in terms of knowing what you're going to get, I've never bought from a different company. I have considered picking up an Anglo deck from Sweden, but I'm not so sure yet...

Also, while I'm here, I don't really want to start a new thread, but do you guys know much about the Las Vegas Club playing cards? They're pretty vintage, not sure exactly when they're from however.. I saw them on dealingdeuces for like $40, but I'm seeing some on ebay, sealed, in an auction for around $5 at the moment... here's the link to the auction (if these are highly prized cards, please don't tell me they're shit and win the auction for yourself ;) ) haha I'm sure you guys wouldn't do that to me...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rare-Las-Vegas-Club-Casino-Playing-Cards-Poker-Deck-Red-/140951338236?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d15abcfc&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1363

Wynn's other than the solid brown-backed ones aren't that hard to obtain, nor are they crazy-rare.

I've heard good things about Anglo decks - you should check them out.  Don't own any myself yet.

LV Club decks of the type you linked to have closed at auction typically in the US$20 range, with some red/blue pairs going for only $26.  I noticed decks sold for less have issues - for example, a deck without cellophane sold for US$9.99.

When it comes to eBay, look at the CLOSED auctions, especially the recent ones, to get a better read on what you should expect to pay.  Unless there was some radical change since the completion of the last sale to change the market value (such as a deck becoming a sold-out, out-of-print deck), those prices will be about what you'll pay.
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2013, 10:46:06 AM »
 

Benjam

  • True Member
  • *
  • 57
    Posts
  • Reputation: 3

Wynn's other than the solid brown-backed ones aren't that hard to obtain, nor are they crazy-rare.

I've heard good things about Anglo decks - you should check them out.  Don't own any myself yet.

LV Club decks of the type you linked to have closed at auction typically in the US$20 range, with some red/blue pairs going for only $26.  I noticed decks sold for less have issues - for example, a deck without cellophane sold for US$9.99.

When it comes to eBay, look at the CLOSED auctions, especially the recent ones, to get a better read on what you should expect to pay.  Unless there was some radical change since the completion of the last sale to change the market value (such as a deck becoming a sold-out, out-of-print deck), those prices will be about what you'll pay.

Good advice, I'll look into it :)
You say Wynns other than the solid (logo) Brown ones aren't hard to obtain... so, you're saying the Red and Violet Wynns with the logos on them aren't that hard to find? That's strange, because I seem to have trouble finding them! Am I looking in the wrong places? haha I know Kardwells used to sell them, but not anymore... where should I look? There's none on ebay, unfortunately :P
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2013, 10:55:04 AM »
 

Don Boyer

  • VP/Dir. Club Forum/DAC Chair, 52 Plus Joker
  • Administrator
  • Forum Sentinel
  • *
  • 19,172
    Posts
  • Reputation: 415
  • Pick a card, any card...no, not THAT card!

  • Facebook:
[You say Wynns other than the solid (logo) Brown ones aren't hard to obtain... so, you're saying the Red and Violet Wynns with the logos on them aren't that hard to find? That's strange, because I seem to have trouble finding them! Am I looking in the wrong places? haha I know Kardwells used to sell them, but not anymore... where should I look? There's none on ebay, unfortunately :P

Meir Yedid Magic runs a sister site that has five varieties - all but the solid browns that T11 used to sell and that black deck.
http://gamblingincorporated.com/

Diamond backs are $15, logo backs are $30.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 10:57:27 AM by Don Boyer »
Card Illusionist, NYC Area
Playing Card Design & Development Consultant
Deck Tailoring: Custom Alterations for Magicians and Card Mechanics
Services for Hire - http://thedecktailor.com/
Pre-Made Decks for Sale - http://donboyermagic.com/
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2013, 05:27:53 PM »
 

sprouts1115

  • 52 Plus Joker Member
  • Discourse Deity
  • *
  • 502
    Posts
  • Reputation: 9

  • Facebook:
Hi Russell,
Our options and pricing guide should help you out with these questions.  Thanks!

Air-cushion, magic and linen finish etc are all versions of embossed.  Different people use the different names as marketing techniques.  We use pantone metallics, you can use up to 6 inks of metallic/non metallic inks.



Thanks,
Tiffany Mahan
Business Development Manager
The United States Playing Card Company
 

Re: Casino Decks - my recent obsession
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2013, 05:29:13 PM »
 

xela

  • Queen of Clubs
  • *
  • 2,475
    Posts
  • Reputation: 171
  • Aspire. Conceive. Create.

  • DeviantArt:

  • YouTube:
Hi Russell,
Our options and pricing guide should help you out with these questions.  Thanks!

Air-cushion, magic and linen finish etc are all versions of embossed.  Different people use the different names as marketing techniques.  We use pantone metallics, you can use up to 6 inks of metallic/non metallic inks.



Thanks,
Tiffany Mahan
Business Development Manager
The United States Playing Card Company

What the fuck does this have to do with anything
Forum Founder.