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How sucessful do you think this will be?

Extremely sucessful
2 (25%)
Sucessful
0 (0%)
Probably sucessful
0 (0%)
I'm not sure
1 (12.5%)
Not very sucessful
2 (25%)
Not sucessful at all
2 (25%)
If it's sucessful then I'll kiss a dead man's ass
1 (12.5%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Voting closed: June 15, 2013, 11:51:02 PM

My new line of CHRISTIAN decks

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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2013, 02:07:05 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I'm not looking on the card boards. I'm looking at the art and contacting the ones I like.

OK, but read this - you should recognize it.

Does anybody know of an artist?

This is recruiting, even if it's "friend-of-a-friend" recruiting...  We're very aware, those who are reading this topic, that you're seeking an artist.
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2013, 08:39:05 AM »
 

xx789m

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This is recruiting, even if it's "friend-of-a-friend" recruiting...  We're very aware, those who are reading this topic, that you're seeking an artist.
[/quote]



If this is recruiting I'm doing an awful job because the number of responses I'm getting is still 0. I'm telling people what I need the art. I'm telling them why I need their art. I'm telling them that I can't pay up front but I can give them a piece of the end deal. I even tell them that I want to see THEIR interpretation. (I want a pretty traditional style but who knows. I'm open for input. I figure ill either find something I like better. Or I'll find an artist that matches my taste without even asking him).
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2013, 01:27:41 PM »
 

Soliloquy

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I understand what you're going through, as I'm looking for an artist myself and finding the project more expensive than I initially realized it would be.  But from the artist's point of view, designing a deck is  a huge investment of their time and energy.  If they're doing this for a living already, they usually require more security than the promise of profits at some future date because they have bills to pay now.  If they're still in school or otherwise being supported, you might have a better chance, but supposed they do all this work for you and you can't find someone to kick start the Kickstarter?  Or suppose you promise them a percentage of the Kickstarter proceeds and it fails?  Perhaps you had better get a plan together first (secure an adult to sponsor the Kickstarter, make a long long list detailing how and where you're going to promote it, etc.) and then they'll take you more seriously.  I understand that desire to GET STARTED NOW, but sometimes it's better to take a step back and prepare your attack first.  Good luck!  I'm going to send you a PM with further suggestions, ok?
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2013, 02:28:34 PM »
 

RandyButterfield

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Soliloquy's right. I also want to add that if I was an artist/designer who received your e-mail, my first thoughts after seeing that you were 13 and live in Mexico would be "what would your role be exactly!" Assuming the contacted artist/designer would be over 18 and live in the U.S. they would need to run the Kickstarter project and deal with the money. Even if you offered to send out all of the packages to pledgees, the extra money to ship the pallet to Mexico and ship a lot of orders from Mexico to the U.S. would cut into both of your profits so much it wouldn't be worth it!

Another thing the contacted artists/designers may be thinking is "why spend so much work on someone else's idea with no guarantee of payment?!" Your e-mails may be inspiring them to create their own designs on a theme that interests them. Personally, I only work on card stuff for 2-3 hours a night after my wife goes to bed at 10:00. The day is reserved for the job that pays the bills and supports the family! If TBC needs a quick revision or a little production art help during the day, I can usually squeeze it in. If any larger card work comes up during the day, it is always pushed off to night work. Creating a custom Deck is a ton of work. Nobody wants to put in that much time on a client's idea without some kind of guaranteed compensation.

The reward of ""you will be paid if it is successful on KS" is just a new version of "I can't pay you but it will be great Portfolio work!". The Portfolio work carrot has been around forever and NO artist/designer should fall for it more than once. It's not fair to the artist and is really taking advantage of them and their skills.

My suggestion would be to wait until you have some money saved up for a guaranteed signing bonus to go with the shared profits, OR work at it until you have the tools and skills to create the Deck yourself.

Thanks, Randy
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2013, 08:34:50 PM »
 

xx789m

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I can get $500-$700 by the end of July is that enough?
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2013, 08:10:21 AM »
 

Alex Willis

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I can get $500-$700 by the end of July is that enough?

First, how many images do you need?  16 for the court and aces, 17 if you count the back, 18 if you want custom pips (pips are easy so I just tell them to make one image with the 4 pips), 19 if you want a tuck box (which should count for 2 so let's say an even 20)  For 20 images you are offering to pay a professional artist $25 an image.  There are plenty of artists in India, Malasia and other hi-tech low income nations that would jump at $25 an image.  I'd be very careful though, some of them have no scruples. 

Going back to my previous advice, if you have let's just say up to $500 to spend to get the artwork done.  Go to www.guru.com and create a project.  Tell people that you want to create images for a playing card deck.  That you will need up to 20, full color images delivered in .psd CYMK and in .jpg format.  The images will need to be larger than the playing cards themselves, they should be about the size of a normal piece of paper and 300dpi.  Provide sample art like the one you shared to weed out the ones whose talent doesn't match.  Then post it and let people bid for your work.  You can see their responses, email them, discuss details....  Then you can pick an artist to work with for the money you offered.  Set up a payment installment plan based on them deliverying  the artwork.  Your challenge will be how to get the money to them.  You need to be able to pay through paypal or a bank account.  You may need your parents help.

Make sure you follow the basic rules when working with a contract artist (guru has contract templates)

1.  All work must be original
2.  You own the work done (copywritten by you)
3.  Provide the artist with a written detailed description of what you expect (King of Clubs = Ben, Older Hebrew man in blue and gold striped robe and conical hat, shephard cane, standing in a flock of sheep, ...)
4.  First deliverable should be the sketch work, typically in pencil to make sure his artistic ideas and yours match
5.  Ink work is the next progressive step, this allows you to see the bold and lighter outlines, normally the sketches look better than the ink, but the artist can make up for it with color
6.  Finally, color should be consistent for all the artwork to create continuity.  Remember, both you and the artist are trying to express yourselves, so allow the artist some leeway.

Like I said, I normally hire artists to illustrate books, but the process is the same.  The only sticky point here is how you can make the payments.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 08:11:42 AM by ManMadeGames »
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2013, 11:19:43 AM »
 

xx789m

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$25 for 20 images? thats.......................well $500............that could work out.........but still I'm not too hot on sending money to some guy in indonesia! Maybe I'll adress it to like a little known charity and tell my mom I'm giving to the poor
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #57 on: April 29, 2013, 11:56:35 AM »
 

RandyButterfield

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You guys are crazy! If you can get an Artist/Designer to create a fully custom Deck for just $500 then bravo to you. But, don't expect the final designs to be able to standup against mid to upper tier Kickstarter Decks or even get close to T11, Ellusionist, TBC, HOPC or D&D quality!

thanks, Randy

 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #58 on: April 29, 2013, 12:36:49 PM »
 

xx789m

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well this seems to be my best chance so far. Do you have any ideas?
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2013, 01:35:26 PM »
 

RandyButterfield

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well this seems to be my best chance so far. Do you have any ideas?

Well, since you are 13 years old - too young to run a KS project and in living in a country that's not allowed to have a KS project, I would suggest have fun being a teenager! Why do you want to commission a Deck so badly? Work is stressful. Creating a product with the hope to sell it to a mass of people is even more stressful. Why put yourself through it at such a young age? There will be plenty of work waiting for you when you have responsibilities, bills to pay and mouthes to feed!

If you're still adamant on going through with it, I would think offering up $500 (half deposit, half after art is finished) PLUS part of the profits would draw in someone with quality skills. I would offer a higher percentage if the Artist/Designer has to run the KS project and handle all of the shipping to pledgees. Of course, if they have to handle all of that because of your age and location, I reassert my "why do they need you" argument.

thanks, Randy
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #60 on: April 29, 2013, 01:43:34 PM »
 

Soliloquy

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xx789m,  to give you an example or scare you straight, one quote I received was $900 per card

Don't you think it a little odd that you're willing to lie to your parents about what you're doing with all that money in order to get a Christian deck made?
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #61 on: April 29, 2013, 02:29:01 PM »
 

xx789m

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I think you have something there. Thank you. And this is kind of what I want to do....
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #62 on: April 29, 2013, 03:00:04 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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You guys are crazy! If you can get an Artist/Designer to create a fully custom Deck for just $500 then bravo to you. But, don't expect the final designs to be able to standup against mid to upper tier Kickstarter Decks or even get close to T11, Ellusionist, TBC, HOPC or D&D quality!

thanks, Randy

Funny, I get the same response from a lot of the artists who I submit RFPs to, and the funny thing is that some of them aren't even worth $10 an image.  The quality of the art is not in question, it's the taste and design of the person commissioning the art.  But I have seen extremely talented artists with great portfolios (mostly foreign) willing to do the work for $25 or less per image.  Let's face it, especially talented artists are not making playing cards, they are being commissioned for larger projects that pay substantially more.  Don't assume card illustration is such a niche market that only a select few are talented enough to design and produce decks.

For example, a deck I love right now is the Mustache Deck.  It's got great colors and feel to it.  Is it extremely talented artwork?  Not at all, it's basic.  But it's also simplistic and the symmetry is spot on making it a nice deck.  That is my own opinion.  Others hate that the suits are colored.  Others don't like that the court is the same except for the mustachios.  There are a lot of decks put out by T11, Ellusionist, TBC, HOPC or D&D that I don't find terribly appealing.  However, they all appeal to a specific market with a specific expectation of design. 

As far as this project goes xx789m, the chances of you getting this off the ground are pretty slim.  If your parents don't support it, it's even slimmer.  If my 13 year old came to me and told me they wanted to create a deck, I'd encourage them but make them do all the ground work first, as many of us have explained to you.  I'm not sure there is much more advice I can offer.  It is great that you are driven to do it and you've shown obvious persistence.  I suggest you channel that into learning to speak Spanish fluently and combing through your local community for an artist.  They don't have to draw in Photo Shop, free hand work can easily be translanted later into computer images. 

Good luck.

FYI - here is the skill of work that my current illustrator gives me... for $25 an image.  Tell me he can't compete!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 03:10:50 PM by ManMadeGames »
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #63 on: April 29, 2013, 03:02:26 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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xx789m,  to give you an example or scare you straight, one quote I received was $900 per card

Don't you think it a little odd that you're willing to lie to your parents about what you're doing with all that money in order to get a Christian deck made?

I received a quote from the guy who drew Jabber Jaw, $9,000 an image!  I got his assistant to do it for $50. 
Alex Willis
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #64 on: April 29, 2013, 03:10:04 PM »
 

xx789m

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I can make about $500 on my own but i can get up to $900,000 from my friend. If I were to use the loan to pay the artist and have the decks printed through money on Kickstarter, then I gave my friend back the money left over, do you think I could scrape up enough profit to pay him back the difference?
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #65 on: April 29, 2013, 03:19:58 PM »
 

RandyButterfield

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For example, a deck I love right now is the Mustache Deck.  It's got great colors and feel to it.  Is it extremely talented artwork?  Not at all, it's basic.  But it's also simplistic and the symmetry is spot on making it a nice deck.  That is my own opinion.  Others hate that the suits are colored.  Others don't like that the court is the same except for the mustachios.  There are a lot of decks put out by T11, Ellusionist, TBC, HOPC or D&D that I don't find terribly appealing.  However, they all appeal to a specific market with a specific expectation of design. 


That brings up the reason I kept making sure to add /Designer whenever I mentioned hiring an Artist/Designer. Sure the Mustache Deck utilizes simple illustrations, but the Design is very well done. A good Design is almost as important, if not more important, than having pretty illustrations in a Deck design. The big difference between Illustrated Decks and Designed Decks is most Decks released by the above companies would be categorized as a Designed Deck. A lot of Decks on Kickstarter and most Deck designs found on DeviantArt would be more in the Illustrated Deck category. HOPC is a good example of a place with both types of Decks or hybrids of the two. That's just my opinion though!

The $25 images you attached are very nice. That particular artist is selling themselves very short! They should be charging much more than that.

thanks, Randy

 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #66 on: April 29, 2013, 03:20:51 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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There's an old adage about a cart and a horse.  Read up on that.  The philosphy of 'build it and they will come' doesn't necessarily work.  But all that aside, this is more of a logistics issue:

1.  Who will create the Kickstarter account for you?
2.  Who will manage the banking/paypal/amazon items for you?
3.  Who will handle the contract with the manufacturer? 

As a minor these are all things you cannot do yourself.  Get these questions answered first.  Then get a solid design concept and some sketches done.  Contract with an artist just for the sketches and then ask what people think.  Because I have access to a great wealth of money doesn't mean I'm a good steward if I don't think through and detail everything prior to spending and before knowing if there is even a profit to be had.

This isn't just about making playing cards, it's a business.  Read a few business books to help you understand marketing, finance, the laws of supply and demand.
Alex Willis
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #67 on: April 29, 2013, 03:24:21 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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The $25 images you attached are very nice. That particular artist is selling themselves very short! They should be charging much more than that.

thanks, Randy

Well put about design Randy, exactly.  The art and design together is a challenge.  The new Pirate deck that just started has great art but not a great design.  (Again, in my own opinion).

He should be and I tell him that all the time, until then it's what he asks.  Sorry, I'm keeping this horse in the stable so don't ask. ;)
Alex Willis
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #68 on: April 29, 2013, 03:42:46 PM »
 

xx789m

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Wow...............a guy just sent me a friend request on facebook.........but this guy is a 16 year old kid thats just produced his own custom deck and has agreed to walk me through the design process.
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #69 on: April 29, 2013, 03:52:42 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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Wow...............a guy just sent me a friend request on facebook.........but this guy is a 16 year old kid thats just produced his own custom deck and has agreed to walk me through the design process.

There you go.  Make sure he's on the level, can't trust people on the internet. :mindf-ck:
Alex Willis
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #70 on: April 29, 2013, 05:10:30 PM »
 

John B.

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Do you mind giving us his name and his deck? I am sure it would have been hit through here.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #71 on: April 29, 2013, 07:07:11 PM »
 

xx789m

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suprymis playing cards
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 07:08:19 PM by xx789m »
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #72 on: April 29, 2013, 07:24:10 PM »
 

Alex Willis

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suprymis playing cards

Website hosting the deck?  I can't find it anywhere. 
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Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #73 on: April 29, 2013, 07:28:01 PM »
 

John B.

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http://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?t=1650&p=19104

this is all I could find. He says he is from russia. He would have the same problems you would when it comes to kickstater.
Do you guys even read this? Like I could have the meaning of life here and I doubt you would know it.
 

Re: My new line of CHRISTIAN decks
« Reply #74 on: April 29, 2013, 07:30:41 PM »
 

xx789m

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« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 07:33:32 PM by xx789m »
Exodus 14:14 The Lord, your god, will fight for you; you need only to be still