Lee Asher Jerry's Nuggets Sale 2013

[Ben K]

Haven't been on here in way too long. Awesome thread.

Just want to add through what I have researched online (nothing verified) they sold out in 99' when a French dude bought out the very last of the stock from casino. Something about they way I read it made me think it was at least two of those trucks. Can't find anything on who that is, but my guess would be a wise and educated french magician. Conspiracy theory brewing?

[BiggerDee]

I've been thinking (and that's always a dangerous thing)...along the lines of what KPop said, what I am wondering about is the stock/finish/manufacturing methods used for these cards. I know that you folks say that they are popular with cardists and flourishers due to handling greatness from the paper stock and finish used, and that these could never be duplicated because those manufacturing processes are extinct at the USPCC. Ok, here's the question...Were those processes standard for the day, or was this run a one-off magical combination that had never been tried before? If they were standard casino cards of the day, the thinking would tend to lean towards the fact that they were standard for the day, and pretty much what USPCC pumped out all day long. If that's the case, then why aren't there other decks from the same time period that handle/perform the same way? You'd think that everything would be nearly identical then, as most decks are now (other than a couple of current card stock choices), other than design elements, of course.

It's almost like these used a magical paper found in an Egyptian tomb, inks found in a shack in Antarctica, and the combination of these and dry desert hear combined to create a mythical Nirvana of playing card perfection! These were a few truckloads of probably the exact same cards that were pumped out for other casinos of the day. Are they *really* magical, or have they just gained that aura over time? Just something to think about.

Remember, I'm not a flourisher, just a collector, so I'd never open a pack, I just think for a pure collector's standpoint.

[Don Boyer]

To answer KPop and BiggerDee:

The processes were probably on the higher end of the quality available at the time.  But remember something: ANY DECK that's FORTY-THREE years old is going to be a little more scarce than something made last month in the same numbers.  Few people at the time had any concept of the collection and preserving of playing cards.  At fifty cents a pack, most of them probably were given to the kids when the parents got back from vacation or "consumed" over the course of a night of poker or a week of magic performances.  Bicycle Rider Backs from 1970, made in much larger numbers, are far from common today.

There were other decks made with similar properties - some say the Friar's Club decks from Japan are very similar.  But there, too, it's not like you can swing a dead cat and hit one anywhere you stand.  Jerry's Nuggets aren't a "staple", as you put it - Bicycle Rider Backs in the Standard Box and Bee Diamond Backs, THOSE are staples.  It's like saying caviar and champagne are staples of most people's diets!  That's not even true in Russia or France!

The thing that makes these decks uncommon when compared to most casino decks is that while the quality is probably the equal of that of many casino decks of the era, those other decks were used on the tables while this one got moved into the souvenir shop.  Canceled decks in the gift shop weren't too common then, as far as I know - they were simply used and destroyed, making even canceled decks harder to come by, never mind the uncanceled ones.  Most of them were consumed and are now gone, while these collected dust in the gift shop display case and the stock room for a few decades.  They got used, sure, but in nowhere near the same numbers as the LV casinos' table-used decks.  Friar's Club decks are around to this day in rare-but-not-platinum-rare numbers because of the same reason - not casino-table used.

As far as the price - that's all due to the speculators.  Who remembers back in the late '80s and early '90s, when collectibles like baseball cards and comic books were being bought up in bizarrely-high numbers and trading at equally-high prices?  People were actually buying brand-new comic books, like "The Death of Superman", as INVESTMENTS, hoping to fund their retirements with the proceeds when they sold them.    When the bottom fell out of the market and prices tumbled, suddenly those investments started looking pretty stupid.  Same thing happened with baseball cards/memorabilia but to a lesser extent following that players' strike (I can't remember the year), which soured a lot of people on the game in particular and things associated with the game in general.  The same thing is happening in the playing cards market, with Jerry's Nugget being one of the prime examples of hyperinflation.  While the prices will never plummet to the 50-cents-a-pack gift-shop level they once commanded, people will eventually stop paying such prices.  Comic books, baseball cards, tech stocks, real estate, junk bonds, you name it - where there's a bubble, sooner or later there's a needle that's going to pop it.

[Ben K]

While the prices will never plummet to the 50-cents-a-pack gift-shop level they once commanded, people will eventually stop paying such prices.  Comic books, baseball cards, tech stocks, real estate, junk bonds, you name it - where there's a bubble, sooner or later there's a needle that's going to pop it.

Don how could you leave out beanie babies?! Haha
I totally agree but I would like to add that we have some good news. First, playing cards have been around for awhile and won't disappear even if the collecting trend does. Second, this time it's international

[Don Boyer]

I totally agree but I would like to add that we have some good news. First, playing cards have been around for awhile and won't disappear even if the collecting trend does. Second, this time it's international

Oh, you mean just like real estate, right? 

[Ben K]

I totally agree but I would like to add that we have some good news. First, playing cards have been around for awhile and won't disappear even if the collecting trend does. Second, this time it's international

Oh, you mean just like real estate, right? 

Don I'm afraid you're right! But gotta be optimistic and hope for alittle magic.

[BiggerDee]

Don- interesting insight, thank you. Scarcity and desirability, whether real or perceived, in an interesting thing.

Ben - Good Lord, Beanie Babies...I had forgotten about those! I remember the lines. I never quite understood that trend. "Limited edition of 3.5 million!!! GET IN LINE!!!"

[Don Boyer]

Don- interesting insight, thank you. Scarcity and desirability, whether real or perceived, in an interesting thing.

Indeed.  Consider this - the approximate current market value of a handful of decks.

Gold Arcane: $50-$60 in North America
Red Artifice: I wanna say $60...but it's really more like $40-$50
Black Crown: $20, +/- $10
Bicycle Black Ghost, 1st Ed.: floats between $60-$100 (or at least it used to, because now it's between $35-$50)
Bicycle Gold Seal New Fan Back in black: about $10

Every single one of those decks has a common factor: they were ALL made in a single 5,000-deck print run.  They're all equally as scarce, not accounting for destroyed decks over the months since their release dates.  So why are the price ranges so varied?

Desire.  The ones that cost most are the most costly because people want them more and are willing to pay that much for them.  Period.  Age isn't even a factor - the oldest deck there is the Black Ghost 1st Ed., and it's hovering right around the middle range of all those decks.

Two more decks and a rough street value:

Bicycle White Centurions: hard to find, $150 on eBay or $250 from a retailer, less only if you're lucky.
Bicycle Gold Seal New Fan Backs in white: $40 on eBay in a "Buy It Now" with the black deck - so call it $30.

There was about 1,100 White Centurions made.
There's only 1,000 GS New Fan Backs.

I love the GS NFBs in white - awesome deck.  I don't even own a White Cent - hard to find and too expensive when I do.  The White Cent had T11's hype machine behind it (or at least I presume so, since I wasn't in the hobby when they were released).  GS NFBs had Zenneth Kok and sheer rarity on its side.  White Cents have been treated like buried treasure from the day T11 stopped selling them, only giving them away as a premium or a contest prize, and today they claim that they ran out of them completely during the '11 Holiday Shopping Season.  GS NFBs normally sell for a hefty sum at Zen's website or other retailers, but he does offer a special deal once or twice a year where you can buy both decks on his site with a t-shirt or a magic trick for less than what he sells the white deck for (or for that matter, is he even still selling it separately?  I didn't see it as a standalone last time I checked).  T11 built the demand, Zen preferred creating availability, despite his deck being the more rare of the two.

[kdklown]

Prices are up on Asher's website for the May 2013 Sale.  $$$

[xela]

Dang, he is selling less decks than usual for higher prices!

200-300 seems fair, but do Jnugs even go for $400 on ebay anymore?

[Don Boyer]

Dang, he is selling less decks than usual for higher prices!

200-300 seems fair, but do Jnugs even go for $400 on ebay anymore?

Well, the eBay market for these things isn't a good indicator.  More sellers keep prices lower, but some sellers, knowingly or otherwise, are selling knockoffs - it's tough to know if you're getting the genuine article.  I'm guessing some are even forging the Lee Asher letters of authenticity, or trying to!  Seriously, if you never knew what one looked like, someone could hand you a matchbook cover and say that's the certificate...

[blastercast]

Is anyone here actually going to try and get one?
I'm out, the customs on a $200 deck would be extortionate and then the shipping!
-Benny

[agera94]

Is anyone here actually going to try and get one?
I'm out, the customs on a $200 deck would be extortionate and then the shipping!
-Benny

International shipping was about $6 last time from the US to Aus, but it shouldn't be too much different for where you're located. No customs fees either, but that all depends on where you're from I guess.

[blastercast]

International shipping was about $6 last time from the US to Aus, but it shouldn't be too much different for where you're located. No customs fees either, but that all depends on where you're from I guess

Yeah we get a 20% customs fee plus another £8 so a $200 deck would cost me £175 approximately which £43 are just so I'm allowed to keep it

[agera94]

International shipping was about $6 last time from the US to Aus, but it shouldn't be too much different for where you're located. No customs fees either, but that all depends on where you're from I guess

Yeah we get a 20% customs fee plus another £8 so a $200 deck would cost me £175 approximately which £43 are just so I'm allowed to keep it

That's daylight robbery indeed. Very shocked to hear that there are customs fees for a $200 item for you 

[blastercast]

That's daylight robbery indeed. Very shocked to hear that there are customs fees for a $200 item for you 

It's crazy! They charge us £8 for charging us the rest, anything worth over £18 gets customs, Ellusionists new iParcel thing is the best deal I've seen in a while because I know what I have to pay up front :')
It's highly unlikely I'd get a $200 deck so then it gets nearer $300 and I'm getting charged £50-£60 customs shipping and handling

[BiggerDee]

Well, I'll try, but there's not way in the world that I'd pay over $275 at the absolute max for a deck. I saw the pricing structure and was definitely shocked. So much for a $99 tier!!

Is there a good guide anywhere that gives tips on how to tell counterfeits from genuines on places like eBay, or if you find some in person? I'm sure that they are getting harder to separate as printing methods get better, but is there a one "gotcha" to look for that will give a bogus deck away?

For those interested in the math (if I calculated correctly, and provided that all of these tiers sell out), these 72 decks will sell in total for $24,516, not including shipping!! That's an average of $340.50/deck. Wow, just wow.

[Don Boyer]

Well, I'll try, but there's not way in the world that I'd pay over $275 at the absolute max for a deck. I saw the pricing structure and was definitely shocked. So much for a $99 tier!!

Is there a good guide anywhere that gives tips on how to tell counterfeits from genuines on places like eBay, or if you find some in person? I'm sure that they are getting harder to separate as printing methods get better, but is there a one "gotcha" to look for that will give a bogus deck away?

For those interested in the math (if I calculated correctly, and provided that all of these tiers sell out), these 72 decks will sell in total for $24,516, not including shipping!! That's an average of $340.50/deck. Wow, just wow.

Ah, but if you recall, most of the time the $99 tier was a "scratch-and-dent" model - the cards were fine but the box or cellophane were somehow compromised, making them less desirable for straight-up collectors who'll never open the pack.  This time around, there's all in "straight-out-of-the-gift-shop" perfect condition.

As far as the pricing, hey - it's a capitalist marketplace and this is a rare vintage item in perfect condition.  If someone's willing to pay that kind of cash, more power to him or her.  The people who balk at the high-end prices are probably the people who shouldn't be buying such an expensive deck in the first place.  I like Lee and think he's a great guy, but I won't be in on this action, 'cause I'm one of those guys.  Maybe I'll get some of those Ascal Pacifics, though...

[BiggerDee]

I'd take minor scratch and dent Nuggs for $99 right now. Perfection is fine if you are investing in them but for folks just wanting one to have it, $99 is fine with me. I'd even take used ones for a certain price. They would be cool to have, but I'll survive without them. I have a few other decks to keep me happy! :-)

[agera94]

Is there a good guide anywhere that gives tips on how to tell counterfeits from genuines on places like eBay, or if you find some in person? I'm sure that they are getting harder to separate as printing methods get better, but is there a one "gotcha" to look for that will give a bogus deck away?

At this point in time you can ask for close up photos of the box. All authentic JN decks will obviously have an aged colour associated with them and less of a straight white colour. The seal is a stamp vs sticker and the red tear for the cellophane is also an indicator. I believe it is to do with the fact that the cello seal is pointed out ready to be torn. I own a sealed blue and red jn and various opened blue and red decks; this is based on my observations and also there are some useful guides that Lee Asher provides on his website.

[mirciusx]

That's daylight robbery indeed. Very shocked to hear that there are customs fees for a $200 item for you 

It's crazy! They charge us £8 for charging us the rest, anything worth over £18 gets customs, Ellusionists new iParcel thing is the best deal I've seen in a while because I know what I have to pay up front :')
It's highly unlikely I'd get a $200 deck so then it gets nearer $300 and I'm getting charged £50-£60 customs shipping and handling

E's iParcel it suc*s. They promise lower shipping costs and they give us a iParcel with fees included?! Why? Because not all the time they charge you for this fees...Anyway, E have the hugest shipping costs ever to Europe and I bought from them only to send them to a good friend in NY. Otherwise, no. They even don't send to Romania. Seasons are the best. DD 2nd, T11 3th. DB...4th. E...no comment.

Btw, I bought from them 4 decks, one white t-shirt. They send me a black t-shirt as a gift with 10% off for the next order 6.xx$ to NY, 18.xx$ to Europe. For me Seasons win a big heart. And they write me a personal note with a pencil. I love that

And I have some bad comments for E, but I will keep them for my self, even I spend almost 2-3k$ on E in the last 4-6 months...

Sorry for off topic.

As a little collector, JN will be nice for for me, but 200$ is a little to much, even they worth it....
Don has right...:
- Gold Arcane was 125-100$, the cheapest about 6 months ago, now is 60-75$
- Black Ghost 1st ed was 150-120$, 6 months ago, but not 35-50$ I would like to buy 2 or more decks for 35$ (new)
- Black Artifice also 100-125$ now is 60-70$

I don't know why, but a lot of decks get lower value on the market (ebay also) in the last 6 months.

Another thing is Blue LTD, 50 limited edition signed by PM, now for BC, at 175$...first deck was sold on ebay for 400-500$. It that worth it?

[Don Boyer]

As a little collector, JN will be nice for for me, but 200$ is a little to much, even they worth it....
Don has right...:
- Gold Arcane was 125-100$, the cheapest about 6 months ago, now is 60-75$
- Black Ghost 1st ed was 150-120$, 6 months ago, but not 35-50$ I would like to buy 2 or more decks for 35$ (new)
- Black Artifice also 100-125$ now is 60-70$

I don't know why, but a lot of decks get lower value on the market (ebay also) in the last 6 months.

Another thing is Blue LTD, 50 limited edition signed by PM, now for BC, at 175$...first deck was sold on ebay for 400-500$. It that worth it?

Pricing is all about what the market will bear.  People expect bargains from eBay a lot, so over time prices tend to go down, especially as demand wanes faster than supply.  The same decks from retailers are often more expensive, but that's got a lot to do with the prices the dealer had to pay to get them in the first place.

That first deck you mentioned that sold on eBay for $500 can't be compared to the current offer from E for blue LTDs from Peter McKinnon's personal stash, autographed and in the new Lucite case.  For one, it was sold at a CHARITY auction, raising money for Wayne Houchin's medical expenses - items will always go for a premium at a charity auction because people are not simply buying them, they're raising money for the cause.  Second, it's not exactly the same as these - that deck was a prototype, and to the best of my knowledge has an entirely different deck back from the one that they ended up using for the finished product.  We'll likely never know what that back looks like, since it's very unlikely that the owner of that deck will be opening it any time soon.

[Curt]

At least with this pricing, it's made an easier decision for me to pass on trying to get a deck. Still going to be annoying that it eludes my collection but $200 plus customs....I need a better job.

[BiggerDee]

It's too quiet here.

Well, how did everyone do? I was tied up with a business matter and missed the sale.

[Paul Carpenter]

I didn't check it out, as I got lucky last time and got one for the low tier price. I've got all I need now.