D&D-Created Magic Documentary (KS)

[hecrob]

So we may be witnessing one the most evil plots to use YOUR money and fund an entire project or maybe one of the best projects ever...

Their reputation (at least for me) is of money grubbers... but i hope im wrong...

Im vocal about how i DONT support kickstarter projects, i feel those subtract value from "real" decks but thats a "talk" for another topic...
What i think they might be doing is funding their entire project, and investing nothing... and of course making a huge profit out of it.

Any thoughts?

[Michael]

So we may be witnessing one the most evil plots to use YOUR money and fund an entire project or maybe one of the best projects ever...

Their reputation (at least for me) is of money grubbers... but i hope im wrong...

Im vocal about how i DONT support kickstarter projects, i feel those subtract value from "real" decks but thats a "talk" for another topic...
What i think they might be doing is funding their entire project, and investing nothing... and of course making a huge profit out of it.

Any thoughts?

I saw this about two hours ago as well. First of all, we have absolutely no idea what it is. I will not try to guess because we'll find out in about 31 hours (as of this post) time. I do doubt though, and with I think very good reason, that this is not a deck project.

I think, although they are a small company in comparison to many businesses out there, they have plenty of money to fund any product related projects. I also think, from a business standpoint, they are just selling the products that people will buy, at a price that is high but still, people obviously are wiling to pay for it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with their prices, just think our willingness to buy them feeds their decisions.

Using a Kickstarter is "questionable" to me because as I said, they have enough money for any product projects and I see Kickstarter as being synonymous with individuals or a small group doing something for the first time. Not an established playing card company. Only time will tell. And honestly, it's less than a day and a half. I can wait.

[Joker and the Thief]

Any thoughts?

Trying to work out how it's "Evil"...

[Loop Cuts]

I can only feel excitement because you guys are right, they do have the money for most all of there endeavors.  I hope this means that they are doing something beyond there reach, which could mean amazing things! 

... I hope

[John B.]

To use what Don has stated, kickstarter is for the little guy to get off the ground. Dan and Dave are a company, are well know, and definitely have the money for this. kickstarter not needed.

[BiggerDee]

True, but I don't believe that KS needs to be exclusively for the little guy. If it works, it's a benefit to all involved, including the consumer. eBay is great for the average Joe to sell things and make some money, but huge corporations use it too. If it benefits everyone involved, including me, all the better.

As for this D&D thing, I have it on my KS launch calendar (yes, in addition to searching a couple of times a day, I have reminders for known launches so that I can get on board in a hurry if early bird or exclusive/limited items are offered), so I will be there when it's live. It may be a huge bust for me, but as of now, my interest is definitely piqued!

[Don Boyer]

True, but I don't believe that KS needs to be exclusively for the little guy. If it works, it's a benefit to all involved, including the consumer. eBay is great for the average Joe to sell things and make some money, but huge corporations use it too. If it benefits everyone involved, including me, all the better.

eBay wasn't created to launch companies - it was made to be a marketplace.  Kickstarter isn't a marketplace.  Dan and Dave Industries aren't exactly hurting for cash as far as I can tell.

Having said that...

Do you guys realize that most of the "big companies" we're talking about in the custom deck business consist of a dozen employees or less?  We're not exactly talking about General Motors or Altria here...  They have a designer or two, they have some website people, a few people to answer phones and deal with administration, and most of them contract out their distribution to a third party.  As much as I hate to say it, they would easily qualify as the kind of small companies that Kickstarter was meant to create and support.

Let's wait and see what they have up their sleeves.  If it's just another deck release, I'm gonna laugh pretty hard...

[Michael]

And that's what I was referring to in my post above. D&D aren't huge but they do have enough money to be self sufficient (or at least I'd like to believe so with just expensive products and decks that have a huge following). This is also why I doubt they are just pushing a Kickstarter for another product project.

If they are trying to expand, why not do it like all other companies and wait till they have the money then make the gamble in expansion and hope for the best? I see Kickstarter as for the little guy that just needs the boost and support to get their first or second idea out. Not that D&D doesn't need a boost in support, just feels like they don't.

[Don Boyer]

And that's what I was referring to in my post above. D&D aren't huge but they do have enough money to be self sufficient (or at least I'd like to believe so with just expensive products and decks that have a huge following). This is also why I doubt they are just pushing a Kickstarter for another product project.

If they are trying to expand, why not do it like all other companies and wait till they have the money then make the gamble in expansion and hope for the best? I see Kickstarter as for the little guy that just needs the boost and support to get their first or second idea out. Not that D&D doesn't need a boost in support, just feels like they don't.

There's no way to know whether they need a boost or not until we see what's being offered - tomorrow morning.

[BiggerDee]

Just as long as Walmart doesn't start doing projects on KS... :-)

[xela]

KS is for start ups, not for people who already have funds.

This is pathetic.

[Alex Willis]

As much as you might not like it, Kickstarter has also become a marketplace!  There are plenty of projects on there for the sole purpose of having their products seen and purchased.  Where else are you going to get a committed market of buyers who will give you money with only a promise of delivery?  I shop on Kickstarter all the time, and typically I don't know if the person pitching is big or small and honestly i don't care.  I just want some cool stuff, especially if it comes with extras.  Even more so for limited releases.  I purchased an art graphic novel book that will never be mass produced nor at Barnes and Nobel and I wouldn't have it unless the guys put it on kickstarter.  Can they afford to produce it otherwise?  Sure, they could sell it on Amazon, but they wouldn't get as big a following like they did on Kickstarter. 
As for me, it's just me and my business partner starting out and our goal is to use Kickstarter to help us with a few new product lines.  We typically publish books which we do quite well at and need neither funding nor Kickstarters, but to competitively do the same in gaming.... that's why I use Kickstarter.  FYI - I only plan to release one more deck and then I'm done with playing cards (except for collecting them).  I'm better at game cards.

[Loop Cuts]

KS is for start ups, not for people who already have funds.

This is pathetic.

 

I seriously doubt it's a deck that they are going to Kickstarter with.  They said on Facebook earlier that they couldn't do this project without Kickstarters help.  And I don't think it matters how big or small the operation is, Kickstarter is for everyone.   

[xela]

KS is for start ups, not for people who already have funds.

This is pathetic.

 

I seriously doubt it's a deck that they are going to Kickstarter with.  They said on Facebook earlier that they couldn't do this project without Kickstarters help.  And I don't think it matters how big or small the operation is, Kickstarter is for everyone.   

I guess we will see. I assumed it's a deck because it was posted here. Their history is very much "here is a terrible or mediocre product for 2x the price" so I wouldn't be surprised if we saw something similar here.

[shutupdangit]

I don't really agree with "Kickstarter is for little guys" when established individuals/companies have used Kickstarter before, so why can't Dan and Dave?

Penny Arcade already has two freaking conventions in its name but raised money basically just to have some extra funds.

Zach Weiner, writer of the successful webcomic Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal and already has a couple published collections of his comic, used Kickstarter for his latest book.

Even Double Fine, a video game company that's been around for at least ten years, had to use Kickstarter because publishers wouldn't buy into their new game because they believed the adventure genre was outdated.

[Don Boyer]

I don't really agree with "Kickstarter is for little guys" when established individuals/companies have used Kickstarter before, so why can't Dan and Dave?

Penny Arcade already has two freaking conventions in its name but raised money basically just to have some extra funds.

Zach Weiner, writer of the successful webcomic Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal and already has a couple published collections of his comic, used Kickstarter for his latest book.

Even Double Fine, a video game company that's been around for at least ten years, had to use Kickstarter because publishers wouldn't buy into their new game because they believed the adventure genre was outdated.

In all those cases, you'll still talking about a small outfit.  Cons aren't huge money makers (if they were, they wouldn't require volunteers) and their "comic" is free online.  Self-published books are also a tough sell.  These outfits aren't any larger than T11 or E - probably much smaller, and making less cash on it.  For a game company, if no one wants to publish you, your avenues are rather limited - you can sell online, but how will people even know you exist and what do people live on in the interim, before the game hits the market?  It's very cash-intensive.

[xela]

Comparing indie game companies to card companies is like comparing homeless people to Mitt Romney.

A deck of cards will take a few months to make, often less with the bigger companies. A few hundred thousand dollars are made in profit.

Kickstarter wasn't "made" for anything, and indeed anyone can use it. However, when it's someone like D&D who have repeatedly milked the cash cow, I can't help but have a bitter taste in my mouth.

[shutupdangit]

In all those cases, you'll still talking about a small outfit.  Cons aren't huge money makers (if they were, they wouldn't require volunteers) and their "comic" is free online.  Self-published books are also a tough sell.  These outfits aren't any larger than T11 or E - probably much smaller, and making less cash on it.  For a game company, if no one wants to publish you, your avenues are rather limited - you can sell online, but how will people even know you exist and what do people live on in the interim, before the game hits the market?  It's very cash-intensive.

I use "established" in more of a branding/marketing sense instead of a financial sense, which I realize now was drifting away from the main point, which is my mistake. But the main point I was trying to make was that these are not start-up companies. My economics is fuzzy but doesn't start ups usually refer to new companies/individuals that are relying on investments to make a future product. Since the examples I listed have already been around for several years running their own businesses, they don't really fit that definition.

Now that the semantics are over I would like to elaborate specifically on Penny Arcade. I don't know how much money PAX makes, but it has to be somewhat profitable for it to continue growing as it has been the last few years. I believe Penny Arcade makes most of their revenue off of merchandising and advertising anyway (or at least they used to, not sure how it's different now), and their Kickstarter project allowed them to become self sustaining for at least a year meaning an ad free website so they could focus on more original content. I don't think a small outfit would have given up on any kind of ad revenue.

Comparing indie game companies to card companies is like comparing homeless people to Mitt Romney.

A deck of cards will take a few months to make, often less with the bigger companies. A few hundred thousand dollars are made in profit.

I'm afraid I don't understand this.....card companies are like Mitt Romney? Playing cards really make a few hundred thousand dollars? Your syntax confuses me.

[Loop Cuts]

Alex my man, lol  , we both know if we were on the receiving end of D&D we wouldn't think anything of it.  D&D have worked there butts off to make very successful company and brand.  Yes they are on the top shelf when compared to some others but that is the nature of things.  I for one have endured some comical moments over there $60+ nail clipper but... its D&D and they have earned the right to be that luxury brand.  I don't see why there is even a debate over the matter of them going to Kickstarter.   

[BiggerDee]

Whatever gets the cool decks on my screen, and makes me want to fork over my hard-earned cash, works for me. As long as the site has no restrictions on it, I don't care who uses what.

In the end, people will vote for their wallets. If they want crap at 2X the realistic cost, good for them. I see people with jacked up trucks getting 3MPG every day. Not my taste but if that floats their boat, good for them. Buy what (or spend your money in a way that) makes you happy. If you overpay, but are happy, so what. Vote your opinion with your cash, and be happy.

I can's see the clock from the top of my soapbox...is it time yet?? Get ready to laugh, yell in disgust, or send your cash through "teh interwebs" (sic)!! :-)

[BiggerDee]

A magic documentary. Interesting...


Not what I expected.

[Michael]

A magic documentary. Interesting...


Not what I expected.

Almost exactly what I was expecting actually. I know they've been filming for a while now and it was a matter of time this came out. I had my suspicions after finding out they were launching a Kickstarter project because many documentaries have been launched on Kickstarter before. I just thought they'd film and produce on their own budget.

Here's the link for those that want it: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dananddave/our-magic?

A goal of $43,000 and a few tiers. Some include: digital access to the film, a t-shirt, the actual DVD, Magic-Con tickets, etc.

[blastercast]

I'm actually quite interested in this! I might go for the $65 tier because some new tricks and the documentary sounds good!
Plus with the lineup of interviewed people I'm interested just to hear what they have to say
I wasn't expecting this to be the project but I knew it wasn't a deck
-Benny

[Michael]

Somehow didn't notice this reading through the project page the first time around but here's the end note:

All tangible incentives, including Thank You cards, T-Shirts, Magic-Con registration, and DVDs will be produced by Dan and Dave Industries giving Our Magic 100% of the funded amount.

As I thought, they have the funds and resources to produce any product related items. They are just looking for the support and funds in producing their documentary.

[Collector]

I told you about Kickstarter... Now D&D is a small company