Diamond Deck Playing Cards (KS)

[BastianBJ]

New deck at Kickstarter, The Diamond Deck.

The cards will be printed by the USPCC, quantity is not specified at the project page.
No info about stock or finish.

Funding goal i only $9,000.

Early birds at $13 and $14. When they're gone, the deck will cost $15 (one-deck price). There's also early birds for 2 and 4-deck combos.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/davidsitto/diamond-deck-playing-cards-0

Edit:
Take a look at the shippping... killing!

[GBAllison]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/davidsitto/diamond-deck-playing-cards-0

Edit:
Take a look at the shippping... killing!

International shipping is $16 for one deck, two decks, and four decks.
Well, with one odd exception:
International shipping for four decks is $16 ... for the early bird $45 pledge.  But it's $20 for the non-early-bird $47 pledge.

Personally, I'm not a fan ... the three different crowns used as courts have nothing that hint at which court they are, and the font is so stylized as to be nearly unreadable.  OK, I get it that courts don't always have to resemble kings and queens and jacks, but whatever graphic is used ... the king ought to be noticeably larger or noticeably more ornate, or noticeably more *something* than the queen.  And the queen ought to be noticeably more than the jack.  Or at least help us out with a readable index.  And the graphic on the tuck box isn't used anywhere on any part of the deck.  And the back looks more like Pedale than anything related to diamonds.

[Alex Willis]

I would have preferred a jewel deck, but I get it.  The buried treasure theme doesn't really carry for Red Diamonds (is there such a thing?) and black diamonds.  Usually I would have thought of gold, pearls and the like.  Now, if the playing chips were Gold Doubloons... we'd have something.  Also the pasted on graphic over the T's don't even fool me.  And I would have expected more diamonds on the Kings crown to match the suit.  They are just the same for each suit.  I like the shaping of the suits, but the cut which resembles a marquise isn't even a standard diamond cut.  I like elements of this deck, just not the whole of it.  I wish the designer good luck.

[BiggerDee]

Yes, there are red diamonds, but they are exceptionally rare. They are the rarest color of diamond available and the largest ever cut (that I am aware of) is .56ct, and it sold for a TON.

I don't know...something about these strikes me as appealing. Just a little something different and a pleasing overall design. I'm in.

[Alex Willis]

Great history lesson on red diamonds.  I'm guessing the concept here is to use the "Diamond Shape" into each suit.  I get it.  We can tell it was a guy who designed the deck because it lacks some bling.  I let my 12 year old at it and she said it needs to sparkle more.  Kids, what can I say?

The Hearts reminds me of my 57 Chevy

[Don Boyer]

International shipping is $16 for one deck, two decks, and four decks.
Well, with one odd exception:
International shipping for four decks is $16 ... for the early bird $45 pledge.  But it's $20 for the non-early-bird $47 pledge.

Perhaps the early bird decks weigh less or something?  Because they're early?  And they're birds?  (hahahahahaha!) 

Look, it's clear this guy doesn't have any idea what he's gotten into with designing a deck of cards.  Hard-to-read indices, flat-out boring courts (that look strikingly like the courts of the Confidence deck if you ask me)...  He's not solid on the cards, he just saw Pedale and Federal 52 and thought, "If they can make a mint, so can I!"  He's not even offering an uncut sheet - who wants to bet he has NO CLUE yet as to what one even is?

Unless he makes some serious changes, this deck stands a better chance of crashing and burning than succeeding - and certainly not on the scale of a Federal 52 success.

I actually take a wary view of these days these days - the Bicycle Asylum's investors are in "bring on the class action suit" mode, the natives are getting restless over a few other undelivered decks...  Take someone with no experience and $$$ in his eyes, and you're likely to end up with a failed "successful" project.  Kickstarter doesn't take ANY steps to vet these project creators at all and offers no guarantees, only advice about seeking an attorney or contacting law enforcement, so you REALLY have to look at these things like you're investing in a company.  How much did the creator do to convince you this was a pro-grade project by a can-deliver person?  On this deck, I'd say "Not much!"

[Alex Willis]

How much did the creator do to convince you this was a pro-grade project by a can-deliver person?  On this deck, I'd say "Not much!"

Ouch, that's kind of harsh.  Let's face it, most young computer saavy people took a photoshop class at school, have some basic knowledge of graphic design and want to make a little cash if they can doing it.  What they lack is experienced folk like yourself to advise them.  To guide them on how and what to offer.  To help edit the design.  To flesh out the concept.  But as you know (I was a software consultant for 12 years so I know), people are reluctant to pay for consultants on something as simple as a Kickstarter project.  Creating decks to sell publicly should follow a business plan:

Who is your target market
What products are available that are similar to yours
What kind of opportunity exists and is the market already saturated
Who is your test group
How many options/variants on the theme have you designed
How much money do you want to earn
What kind of budget are you working with
Can you afford to pay for advice
Material Costs
Labor Costs
Taxes
Manufacturing Costs
Shipping Costs

1.  Design
2.  Edit
3.  Test market
4.  Build a following
5.  Determine and review costs with vendors
6.  Build a profit/loss scenario
7.  Define post production distribution/sales
8.  Create teaser advertising
9.  Position the product to the right audience in the right venue
10.  Provide Incentives to potential buyers (uncut sheets...)
11.  Build a rapid fire response to making the product public to gain #1 on the Popular Lists
12.  Have a planned communication plan (Timing, message, delivery, promotion, build rapport...)
13.  Communicate after completion of the project
14.  Get materials to manufacturer to schedule earliest production dates
15.  Make all payments into escrow if possible
16.  Prep shipping materials, labeling, packing...
16a.  Communicate to your buyers
17.  Ship
18.  Get Feedback
19.  Launch post production sales

That's just off the top of my head with the two minues of free time I had.  I'm sure I missed much more, I don't have a project plan in front of me at the moment.

[David Sitto]

Hi guys i am the creator of the Diamond Deck. I guess i can say thank you for the feedback. I am not someone to get mad over constructive criticism so i appreciate it anyways. If you guys truly have suggested changes for my deck, i would be happy to hear them if you sent me a message on kickstarter as well. i did make adjustments on the shipping costs for the ones that i was allowed to still do. i was just basing my shipping prices from the usps website. i then did some other number crunching and i saw that i can lower it a bit, so i did. I basicly just got the idea from a an idea of my own. I am not opposed to making some changes though. let me know what you guys think i should do to make it better. thanks.

Dave

p.s any thoughts?

[David Sitto]

Yes, there are red diamonds, but they are exceptionally rare. They are the rarest color of diamond available and the largest ever cut (that I am aware of) is .56ct, and it sold for a TON.

I don't know...something about these strikes me as appealing. Just a little something different and a pleasing overall design. I'm in.

Thank you

[Alex Willis]

Hi guys i am the creator of the Diamond Deck. I guess i can say thank you for the feedback. I am not someone to get mad over constructive criticism so i appreciate it anyways. If you guys truly have suggested changes for my deck, i would be happy to hear them if you sent me a message on kickstarter as well. i did make adjustments on the shipping costs for the ones that i was allowed to still do. i was just basing my shipping prices from the usps website. i then did some other number crunching and i saw that i can lower it a bit, so i did. I basicly just got the idea from a an idea of my own. I am not opposed to making some changes though. let me know what you guys think i should do to make it better. thanks.

Dave

p.s any thoughts?

We are all well meaning so thanks for not taking it personal and read it for what it is, free advice and feedback.  Focus groups are paid a fairly significant amount of money to provide honest unbiased feedback, as you can see here there is nothing but honesty.  I like the deck, but I'm on the fence because of the Royalty, I just wish they were differentiated a little more.  The mustache deck has the same images but they have different mustaches (and colors) to differentiate the suits.  And for a diamond deck I thought they would have had more ... diamonds on the crowns. 

This forum has a great thread for design and development where you can share your designs as you develop and get feedback before you launch.

As you are going with USPCC to make these you should offer full uncut sheets.  They cost you a nominal amount but you can charge fairly decent for them to try and make up some ground on your goal.    Also, you should think of Kickstarter as a way to just produce the item, not to make a profit, if you do then kudos, but when purchasing 2,500 decks you should have about a thousand decks left over to sell which is your profit.  Set your goal too high and you may not reach it.

I wish you luck on this deck, and I'll like pick up a deck anyway...as I said, I'm on the fence. 

[David Sitto]

  Your honesty is much appreciated sir, I am always able to update design changes from your feedback which I will do so.  My concept is based after diamonds/jewels/gold.  I focused on keeping it simple yet elegant , that way it's easy to read.   I also made a test print on my own computer to see how they look in pairs and what not.  From all the feedback I asked before launch pretty much all of it was very positive.  The design limits are endless and I always like stand out a bit

[Don Boyer]

Advice:

I'm assuming you can't afford a consultant.  Do the next best thing and ask some of the experienced designers around here for advice.  You're already on your way there.

Backers are COST-SENSITIVE, especially international backers.  There's no justifiable reason for an increase in shipping costs from an early-bird reward to the regular reward when it's the exact same product being offered in both.

An index is meant to be easily and quickly read.  Consider a different font.  It doesn't have to be boring, but it does have to be understood in under one second, no heavy thinking required.

It's been mentioned before, I'll say it again - do SOMETHING more with the courts, particularly in terms of differentiation.  Look up images of the Confidence deck (it was also on Kickstarter as well as being independently launched) - make your courts DIFFERENT in appearance or you'll get comparisons from collectors along the lines of "How unoriginal, he just copied that!"  The same goes for the highly geometric designs in the pips.  Gems can be made in other shapes - a nice one appears earlier in this thread displaying a club.  KS decks like Bicycle geoDeck, Stealth and Bicycle Core all used designs of varying similarity.

[Alex Willis]

Gems can be made in other shapes - a nice one appears earlier in this thread displaying a club. 

Thanks Don, although it's not that nice a design, just an example of how you could use 'diamonds' in other ways to create suits.  I think his purpose is really to showcase the geometic shapes but to make them appear as jewels.  On the other hand, the creator implied that he was doing a treasure chest kind of deck (gold, jewels...) which would explain the card back. 

I like the geometic creativity and they are consistent in design with one another, and the name "Diamond" deck fits with the shapes.  But the font and card back really don't.  I get the lux feel of the royalty cards, but their minor differences along with the font would make it very difficult to identify at a glance to determine what its value is.  Perhaps the queen should have more of a tiara and the jack more of a ring, or fancy this... a jeweled club since a Jack is really a Knave...otherwise a soldier.  That one might be a little harder to sell. 

However, I doubt his current backers would appreciate sweeping changes to the design.  If it doesn't get funded, then I would seriously take a step back and look over the drawing board again.

[BiggerDee]

David- You're welcome!

Thank you for actually lowering prices and telling everyone to adjust their pledge to save money. While a few dollars either way doesn't matter to me, I know that it does to many, and I appreciate your efforts to make the deck more affordable so that others can join in if they are interested. That's refreshing and appreciated. Good luck!

[David Sitto]

you are very welcome, thank you for the comment. I am really in love with kickstarter and the ideas that people come up with. I try my hardest to keep away from anyone elses idea but sometimes people just have such a general idea that its hard not to think of some of them on your own. i have been getting a lot of feedback on my project and i am really getting into it. I might make a couple tweaks to the deck based on a few opinions ive got. Any suggestions from anyone about shipping costs or design, please just let me know so i can make everything fair. I was just trying to account for packaging, labels and taxes. also kickstarter takes a fee aswell. anyways thank you again for the kind words and more feedback is welcome anytime!

~Dave

[David Sitto]

Ok everyone i took a lot of consideration to everyones comments. I spent all night trying to figure out a way i can do it without being too plain. I had to get some help from an artist friend of mine who is much better with hand drawing detail. I took it and put it in PS and illustrator. It isnt even close to done yet but what do you think of my new direction for the court cards for the diamond deck?

[Don Boyer]

you are very welcome, thank you for the comment. I am really in love with kickstarter and the ideas that people come up with. I try my hardest to keep away from anyone elses idea but sometimes people just have such a general idea that its hard not to think of some of them on your own. i have been getting a lot of feedback on my project and i am really getting into it. I might make a couple tweaks to the deck based on a few opinions ive got. Any suggestions from anyone about shipping costs or design, please just let me know so i can make everything fair. I was just trying to account for packaging, labels and taxes. also kickstarter takes a fee aswell. anyways thank you again for the kind words and more feedback is welcome anytime!

~Dave

Wait - hold on a sec...  Are you saying that you didn't go into the project knowing up front what your shipping and other fees were going to have to cover with the income on the project?  If that's the case, well...  I really don't know what to say.  You have the potential to run completely off the rails if you aren't careful...

Ok everyone i took a lot of consideration to everyones comments. I spent all night trying to figure out a way i can do it without being too plain. I had to get some help from an artist friend of mine who is much better with hand drawing detail. I took it and put it in PS and illustrator. It isnt even close to done yet but what do you think of my new direction for the court cards for the diamond deck?

This is a very big step in the right direction for your courts.  Very big.  It's unique, and not just for the sake of being unique.  Looking forward to seeing more.

[David Sitto]

thank you very much. well it wasnt that i didnt know. its that i made a mistake when i was checking the shipping online. sorry

[Don Boyer]

thank you very much. well it wasnt that i didnt know. its that i made a mistake when i was checking the shipping online. sorry

It's not me you should apologize to - it's your backers.

[David Sitto]

oh yes, I already did. i even lowered the shipping and sent everyone a post update.

[David Sitto]

ok here is where i am at right now, what do you guys think? should i change the court cards and do faces like this. i was gonna do a different face for each king, queen and jack.

[Alex Willis]

ok here is where i am at right now, what do you guys think? should i change the court cards and do faces like this. i was gonna do a different face for each king, queen and jack.

I have to grin at this a little first , I love the Spades design but then again I'm a huge Star Trek fan (look for it), and the King reminds me of William Riker (1st officer under Captain Picard).  Okay, now that I took my nerd coat off, you will find we all have opinions and they are like ... well you know.  I liked the original format, just not the similarity with the crowns within the ranks.  As you are doing faces, and different ones for the different suits, were you thinking of doing distinct national origins?  Arabian, Asian, Anglo European... All I ask is that one of the queens has long flowing red hair, there's just something about a red head. 

[David Sitto]

hey man you pretty much read our minds lol. I will make a couple more designs and run them by everyone. so far all my current backers like the original one but i am still open to change 

[Don Boyer]

hey man you pretty much read our minds lol. I will make a couple more designs and run them by everyone. so far all my current backers like the original one but i am still open to change 

I like the direction you're taking with the courts.  Not enough artists do "three-dimensional" court images these days, giving some depth of field to the faces.  Faces and hands are the toughest parts of designing a court card - you seem to have a decent handle on the faces.  And yes on the red-head!

[Alex Willis]

So gang, if you're wondering, based on the feedback from this forum and others David pulled the original project and did an overhaul on the deck.  He is launching it today later today, you can preview it here:  http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/davidsitto/421870785?token=7ba64f1a.  It is a huge improvement and gives the name of the deck a fitting look and feel and he pulled away from the pirate/buried treasure theme.  Keep your eyes here for more news.

He's doing some last minute work before launch including adding some missing elements to the tuckbox and adding a few more card images.