The thing that I hate most about KS campaigns.

[BiggerDee]

Sorry, I have to gripe/rant here because I believe that things are getting out of hand.

I received the backer e-mail for White Allure yesterday and decided to go out and review my pledge. There are FORTY-SEVEN (if I counted correctly...it was hard because they all started to blend together), FORTY-SEVEN different pledge levels. I initially pledged for two different levels, but my monetary amount now only shows one level. The levels were numbered decks (I pledge early in an attempt to get low numbers), but it's pointless now. Federal 52 was the same way. PLEDGE LEVEL OVERLOAD!! Doing multiple levels is a pain in the $#@ at best, and impossible at worst. I would love to see KS have some sort of multiple-level type "Shopping cart" system. I don't know whether to be frustrated at KS for not having it, or at creators for going frickin' nuts adding levels. Another deck yesterday added levels to lower prices. Great, but now there are twice as many listed. Is it a KS issue for not allowing levels to be removed once they're live, or creators for not planning ahead? There are many campaigns that I would pledge more on, I just get tired of trying to figure all of the levels and pre and post-end add-ons and all of the other clutter figured out. I've bought several KS decks on eBay because I knew that it would be easier to buy there than to pledge more to the creator. It's driving me crazy (which is a short drive anyway!), and I'm getting tired of dealing with campaigns because of this factor. Arrrrgggghhhhh!

Is this just me, or are others tired of it as well?
Rant done, thank you for your time.

[Don Boyer]

Sorry, I have to gripe/rant here because I believe that things are getting out of hand.

I received the backer e-mail for White Allure yesterday and decided to go out and review my pledge. There are FORTY-SEVEN (if I counted correctly...it was hard because they all started to blend together), FORTY-SEVEN different pledge levels. I initially pledged for two different levels, but my monetary amount now only shows one level. The levels were numbered decks (I pledge early in an attempt to get low numbers), but it's pointless now. Federal 52 was the same way. PLEDGE LEVEL OVERLOAD!! Doing multiple levels is a pain in the $#@ at best, and impossible at worst. I would love to see KS have some sort of multiple-level type "Shopping cart" system. I don't know whether to be frustrated at KS for not having it, or at creators for going frickin' nuts adding levels. Another deck yesterday added levels to lower prices. Great, but now there are twice as many listed. Is it a KS issue for not allowing levels to be removed once they're live, or creators for not planning ahead? There are many campaigns that I would pledge more on, I just get tired of trying to figure all of the levels and pre and post-end add-ons and all of the other clutter figured out. I've bought several KS decks on eBay because I knew that it would be easier to buy there than to pledge more to the creator. It's driving me crazy (which is a short drive anyway!), and I'm getting tired of dealing with campaigns because of this factor. Arrrrgggghhhhh!

Is this just me, or are others tired of it as well?
Rant done, thank you for your time.

It has a lot to do with KS not having any way to track add-ons.  Fed 52 used an outside service for tracking add-ons - if it was used from the start, the entire process could have been simplified to having tiers that only have decks, period, nothing else, then make EVERYTHING else an add-on.

Or smarter yet - KS should incorporate add-ons into their own service, eliminating the third-party competition...

[Alex Willis]

I personally attemted to limit the number of pledge levels on my offerings, but the tracking of add-ons is a nightmare.  Basically, I have to survery everyone at the end of a project to tell me "What did you order?", then I have to compare that against what they actually paid for to make sure I'm not screwing them and that they correctly paid for what they wanted. 

[Don Boyer]

I personally attemted to limit the number of pledge levels on my offerings, but the tracking of add-ons is a nightmare.  Basically, I have to survery everyone at the end of a project to tell me "What did you order?", then I have to compare that against what they actually paid for to make sure I'm not screwing them and that they correctly paid for what they wanted.

I'm still to this day astonished that KS themselves don't offer a reasonable method for tracking these things - but there's a lot of things I find astonishing about KS these days!

[Paul Carpenter]

Alternately you could, ooooh I don't know....maybe rely on the strength of your card design to reach the goal of your "playing card project." And not have 300 other products to boost your bottom line.

Crazy idea, I know...

[BiggerDee]

@ Paul...ROFL!!!

When will the add-on Aurum toaster covers be coming out? ;-)

[Don Boyer]

I can get the idea behind wanting a couple of extras, but after a while, if you go to far, it becomes less of a project and more of a flea market.

[Loop Cuts]

Alternately you could, ooooh I don't know....maybe rely on the strength of your card design to reach the goal of your "playing card project." And not have 300 other products to boost your bottom line.

Crazy idea, I know...

 

I think it comes down to effort, research, and marketing.  Me and David are going to try a very simple approach to get the essential funding and once that is secure... MAYBE add something else but adding after funding is reached keeps new rewards clean and easy to navigate.  All these addons are so confusing and I cannot see how they help at all.  So much money goes into a product that had nothing to do with the essential launch.  CARDS! 

I think I told Paul and a few others, pile on rewards but in most cases we were always working with something that we already had right in front of us. 

[Soliloquy]

When I first started looking at custom decks on KS I was amazed at the variety and beauty of the successfully funded projects.  It was the Founders deck that really sucked me in, and I just had to back it.  It was only later I saw all the awful decks, and they only seem to be increasing in number!

I hereby pledge never to inflict a hideous design on KS, even if it takes me years to find the right artist.

[BiggerDee]

I wonder how many folks pledge for a deck of cards, and wind up receiving a huge shipping box with one deck...and shirts, dice, coins, chips, tea, sleeves, medallions, dealer coins, key rings, coffee cups, clips, et cetera. I did like Federal 52, and others, who added additional different decks. If I care enough to pledge for a deck my only add-on will be...more decks! I have nothing against other things, and it's obvious that many other folks are interested, but put up a store. I realize that defeats the purpose of boosting the KS result to increase the odds of successful funding, but wow. Some campaigns (mostly non-card ones that I back) make me have to really think to just figure out the levels, and how to "buy" just what I want to, and maybe an extra or two. Many are crazy. Some are worth the effort, some I just give up on before I click on the pledge button. I'm not even going to delve in to some of the goal amount discussion!

[JacksonRobinson]

I totally agree. The Fed 52 project was very confusing because of all the tiers. Not being able to edit and evolve your tiers as a project grows is very hindering for both the creator and really kickstarter too. I also think keeping the physical add ons to a minimum and relying on the decks to be your work horse is the way to go. I'm seriously thinking about just having 1 tier on my next project, and handling everything else as add ons.

[Don Boyer]

I totally agree. The Fed 52 project was very confusing because of all the tiers. Not being able to edit and evolve your tiers as a project grows is very hindering for both the creator and really kickstarter too. I also think keeping the physical add ons to a minimum and relying on the decks to be your work horse is the way to go. I'm seriously thinking about just having 1 tier on my next project, and handling everything else as add ons.

I'd keep it simple - but not THAT simple!

Create a set of early-bird and standard tiers offering different quantities of your deck.  Then make the rest as add-ons and use Backerkit to track them - seriously, that looks like a godsend for creators.  How is it working for you so far?  Kickstarter is crazy for letting that service go to a third-party company rather than offering it themselves.

[JacksonRobinson]

I totally agree. The Fed 52 project was very confusing because of all the tiers. Not being able to edit and evolve your tiers as a project grows is very hindering for both the creator and really kickstarter too. I also think keeping the physical add ons to a minimum and relying on the decks to be your work horse is the way to go. I'm seriously thinking about just having 1 tier on my next project, and handling everything else as add ons.

I'd keep it simple - but not THAT simple!

Create a set of early-bird and standard tiers offering different quantities of your deck.  Then make the rest as add-ons and use Backerkit to track them - seriously, that looks like a godsend for creators.  How is it working for you so far?  Kickstarter is crazy for letting that service go to a third-party company rather than offering it themselves.

Backerkit is working awesome. It is still in it's "Beta" stage so the small team of creators has been really great about evolving it depending on what my needs are. Right now its only a backend deal, but for my next project I will be like you said above having very simple tiers with decks that are ALL the same price, so backers can treat them like add ons. I have gotten the expected backlash from a handfull of people that don't like that people can add more things on afterward. That fact has proven to be great for the huge amount of people that were lost in my sea of confusing tiers to get what they wanted. I have learned alot, and hope and encourage other creators to use backerkit on their projects. It would be awesome if Kickstarter would hook up with creators to evolve their system. I love the Kickstarter model and community but do not see it as a sustainable model (for myself at least) to continue and hope to wean my self off of it when I have enough of a following. I think something that alot of creators are missing is the power of updates. Of course I have the 1 out of 50 people that want to delete my daily updates upon arrival but over-informing the backers goes a long way to be completely upfront and transparent with your backers.

[Loop Cuts]

David shared this system with me so if things develop the way I'm hoping they will, I'll have use for it.

[BiggerDee]

Jackson, you're spot on. The Backerkit was great when it came time to select what decks of yours that I was getting. Being able to use that put me at ease, and gave me confidence that I would actually receive what I wanted in the first place. I like it a lot.

[JacksonRobinson]

I think another thing that really throws people off is shipping. People are so conditioned to eCommerce and selecting shipping with a provider like UPS or FedEx that when they are asked by a creator "to be sure to add on $X" for shipping" it doesn't register. Why change a system that has been refining itself for 25+ years. I wish there was a more seamless way kickstarter provided to connect creators with shipping providers. I know that there isn't because kicstarter doesn't want to take any responsibility for it, and I I totally understand it as well. It would benefit both the creators and the backers if there was something like that, because it would take out the "why are you charging what you are charging" question. Because in the end I know how much a deck ways, and I know how much it cost when I put that deck on the postage scale to calculate postage, but its hard to get a number that makes at least 50% of the people happy because you can't predict where your shipping to when you try and set a shipping price. Thats what using a provider would do for you. Kickstarter chose to use Amazon (3rd party) why not when I click to confirm my pledge it also gives me the choice to choose whatever type of shipping I want, and also give an accurate postage amount due to the fact that I dialed in all of the weights of my products before hand. I'm only soap boxing because I'm finally on the receiving end of the heat.

[Don Boyer]

I think another thing that really throws people off is shipping. People are so conditioned to eCommerce and selecting shipping with a provider like UPS or FedEx that when they are asked by a creator "to be sure to add on $X" for shipping" it doesn't register. Why change a system that has been refining itself for 25+ years. I wish there was a more seamless way kickstarter provided to connect creators with shipping providers. I know that there isn't because kicstarter doesn't want to take any responsibility for it, and I I totally understand it as well. It would benefit both the creators and the backers if there was something like that, because it would take out the "why are you charging what you are charging" question. Because in the end I know how much a deck ways, and I know how much it cost when I put that deck on the postage scale to calculate postage, but its hard to get a number that makes at least 50% of the people happy because you can't predict where your shipping to when you try and set a shipping price. Thats what using a provider would do for you. Kickstarter chose to use Amazon (3rd party) why not when I click to confirm my pledge it also gives me the choice to choose whatever type of shipping I want, and also give an accurate postage amount due to the fact that I dialed in all of the weights of my products before hand. I'm only soap boxing because I'm finally on the receiving end of the heat.

If Amazon was smart, they'd look into becoming a fulfillment service for Kickstarter project creators...  They take a cut and the project developer's life goes on like normal, freeing him or her up to do the next big thing.  I've seen too many projects collapse under the weight of getting all the goodies shipped.  If you're a one-man show and you suddenly have a death in the family, wedding to attend, injury to deal with, etc., your backers will be screaming for your head in short order.  With Amazon doing the heaviest lifting, life goes on, you deal with your crisis and the backers are none the wiser because they get their stuff on time.

[Alex Willis]

If Amazon was smart, they'd look into becoming a fulfillment service for Kickstarter project creators...  They take a cut and the project developer's life goes on like normal, freeing him or her up to do the next big thing.  I've seen too many projects collapse under the weight of getting all the goodies shipped.  If you're a one-man show and you suddenly have a death in the family, wedding to attend, injury to deal with, etc., your backers will be screaming for your head in short order.  With Amazon doing the heaviest lifting, life goes on, you deal with your crisis and the backers are none the wiser because they get their stuff on time.

Understand that Amazon takes a sizable fee for their service.  I use them for book fulfillment, which if I did it myself would save me $3 per $10 sale.  However, if I break that down into an hourly wage for me to do the work... it's worth the money.

[Don Boyer]

Understand that Amazon takes a sizable fee for their service.  I use them for book fulfillment, which if I did it myself would save me $3 per $10 sale.  However, if I break that down into an hourly wage for me to do the work... it's worth the money.

It's definitely worth a discussion with them, especially since they're already in bed with KS on their payments.  They might even be willing to negotiate if you can come to them with a successful project that has hundreds of backers - bulk discount.  The one issue that could make that thorny would be the agreements they have in place to pay state sales taxes...

Wait a sec...  Could that new Federal law about collecting state sales taxes online apply to KS as well?  Yikes...

[xela]

I think another thing that really throws people off is shipping. People are so conditioned to eCommerce and selecting shipping with a provider like UPS or FedEx that when they are asked by a creator "to be sure to add on $X" for shipping" it doesn't register. Why change a system that has been refining itself for 25+ years. I wish there was a more seamless way kickstarter provided to connect creators with shipping providers. I know that there isn't because kicstarter doesn't want to take any responsibility for it, and I I totally understand it as well. It would benefit both the creators and the backers if there was something like that, because it would take out the "why are you charging what you are charging" question. Because in the end I know how much a deck ways, and I know how much it cost when I put that deck on the postage scale to calculate postage, but its hard to get a number that makes at least 50% of the people happy because you can't predict where your shipping to when you try and set a shipping price. Thats what using a provider would do for you. Kickstarter chose to use Amazon (3rd party) why not when I click to confirm my pledge it also gives me the choice to choose whatever type of shipping I want, and also give an accurate postage amount due to the fact that I dialed in all of the weights of my products before hand. I'm only soap boxing because I'm finally on the receiving end of the heat.

If Amazon was smart, they'd look into becoming a fulfillment service for Kickstarter project creators...  They take a cut and the project developer's life goes on like normal, freeing him or her up to do the next big thing.  I've seen too many projects collapse under the weight of getting all the goodies shipped.  If you're a one-man show and you suddenly have a death in the family, wedding to attend, injury to deal with, etc., your backers will be screaming for your head in short order.  With Amazon doing the heaviest lifting, life goes on, you deal with your crisis and the backers are none the wiser because they get their stuff on time.

The thing is that Amazon already has the tools to do this, and has insane contracted shipping rates with FedEx, USPS and UPS. As of now, fulfillment companies are a giant joke. Yes, they get the job done, but their system is convoluted, the asking price is extremely high, and based on their ToS it seems like they try not to take responsibility for mistakes.

If I were Amazon, I'd give creators the option to tack on a secondary fee of something like $3 per shipment +5% of total money raised. They're a great company with great customer service. I'd have no worries about "what would happen if they misplaced 2 gross of cards?"

On top of that, they would already have the merch in their warehouse, letting the creator put their product on their site right away.

In the end, Amazon, creators and backers all win. The best part is that the creator doesn't have to worry about missing/damaged shipments. One of the most annoying things I had to deal with was figuring out who was scamming and who honestly had an issue.

Not filling out custom forms and dealing with international backers alone would make it worth it. It takes longer to do customs than it does packing & shipping a domestic package. Not to mention that a $2 domestic shipment is $13 international...

[the assman]

I wonder how many folks pledge for a deck of cards, and wind up receiving a huge shipping box with one deck...and shirts, dice, coins, chips, tea, sleeves, medallions, dealer coins, key rings, coffee cups, clips, et cetera. I did like Federal 52, and others, who added additional different decks. If I care enough to pledge for a deck my only add-on will be...more decks! I have nothing against other things, and it's obvious that many other folks are interested, but put up a store. I realize that defeats the purpose of boosting the KS result to increase the odds of successful funding, but wow. Some campaigns (mostly non-card ones that I back) make me have to really think to just figure out the levels, and how to "buy" just what I want to, and maybe an extra or two. Many are crazy. Some are worth the effort, some I just give up on before I click on the pledge button. I'm not even going to delve in to some of the goal amount discussion!

I'm curious about a couple of things;

Who makes all this stuff?  I know USPC makes the cards and the uncut sheets but what about all the other merchandise?  I would think it is all separate suppliers.  It must be a huge pain to have to deal with 1 company making the cards, another company making shirts, another making card clips and so on.

Don't the manufacturers require some sort of minimum order?  For example, the custom engraved card clips.  I would think the project creator would have to place an order of at least a couple of hundred to get them made.  From the KS projects I've followed the clips don't seem like big sellers.

Anyone have any insight to share?  Thanks.

[Alex Willis]

Who makes all this stuff? 

Cafepress.  Plus, you can sell this stuff in your own store before, during and after a project.  They do a nice job, and you can order print on demand, but it's pricey.  The costs come down if you order in bulk. 

http://www.cafepress.com/shirtsmydadwears