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The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)

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The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« on: May 11, 2013, 02:45:47 AM »
 

Soliloquy

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The zombie decks just keep coming.  Somebody hold me :(

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/527023912/the-ultimate-zombie-deck










 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2013, 03:16:54 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Oh, pish-tosh, you don't need someone to hold you...  :))

I'll grant that the zombie theme is getting played, but at least these guys have graphic-novel grade artists working on this project rather than Joe Nobody.
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Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2013, 04:36:18 PM »
 

MrMollusk

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MOAR ZAMBIES

Interesting art style, and the number cards are most definitely cool.
But the back design is 62 flavors of "meh".
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2013, 02:19:11 AM »
 

BrianDenham

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Hello. I am a new board member and the designer of the ultimate Zombie Deck now on Kickstarter.

SORRY
My apologies for yet one more zombie deck. As a comic artist who has drawn a bunch of zombie and monster/horror related comics since starting my career in 1994 I felt I had some background pedigree to bring a zombie deck to life. Working in small press comics it seems we can't sell a comic to our distributors unless it is zombies and/or Steampunk. (Don't worry we'll lay off the Steampunk decks.)

NEW BOX ART
I am working on the deck and tweaking the designs as the Kickstarter goes further along. I have just updated the box design though I think it still needs some revisions. I placed the pips along the top of the deck but that is where the seal goes and the pips will be covered up. I am thinking about moving them to the 4 corners of the sides of the box or just removing them totally.

CARD BACK
What I thought was a pretty clever design of the back of the card has fallen a little flat over the last week to me. I read a ton of the posts on here in other threads and it seems colored card backs would be the way to go. I would probably keep the color along the lines of grayscale as I think full color zombies can be a little too gross or disgusting for what should be a fun gaming session.

COURT CARDS
I am working on the court card designs at the moment and hope to add them to the site this weekend. There is the question of doing the designs with just a full body shot of the Kickstarters who buy their likeness as the court cards, or doing the reversible design. I think since the other cards are drawn with one angle in mind that the court cards would be OK with that design idea as well. Since there won't be a tell of a player turning over a one-way court card in their hand since all the designs would be one-way.

BICYCLE
I still need to get approval from Bicycle on the box art but this is the concept so far. We will probably go with the Magic finish but I have seen it called a few different things I am not sure how to specify what exactly the paper/finish will be.


Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 02:24:12 AM by BrianDenham »
 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2013, 03:30:58 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Look, you're taking a bit of flack for the "yet another zombie deck" thing.  Give it a reason to stand out head-and-shoulders above the rest of the crop.  Maybe full color wouldn't be such a bad thing in this case - it would really make those designs pop.

Those pips on top of the tuck box?  Just push them away from the center.  Better yet, push all four to one side and place a "card reveal" on the other, mixed in with a few random digits and letters like a manufacturer's model number.  If you don't know what that is, a card reveal is a simple but slightly devious way to reveal a spectator's card at the end of a trick.  Some designers create fake bar codes on the box bottom to conceal the name of a card where the numbers would normally go.  Some will simply print it somewhere unexpected, like on the top flap or the little side flaps (usually the value on one flap and the suit on the other).  Some get really tricky, hiding them in jokers, on court cards' clothing, on the extra/ad cards, etc.  David Blaine has a mentalism trick he does where he reveals the word "indigo" under the box seal of his White Lions decks, with some of the letters concealed in the words "playing cards".  You can really go nuts with them.

About the backs - go color.  Really.  A really good B&W comic can look really good, but a really good color comic can look great with all those vivid colors.  I could be wrong here, but I remember when I was younger that the only comics I saw in B&W were from the publishers who couldn't (or didn't want to) spring the extra bucks for a color print job.  There's a reason why there are no more black-and-white TVs in any appliance stores...  I do recognize that there's some artists who've done great things in B&W comics - but this is a different medium.  A lot of deck makers are creating full-color backs and the people collecting them love it.  A monochrome back design can work, but it really has to be a work of art, like a true classic design.  The Legends deck and the Split Spades Lions are examples of this.  Monochrome can also work if the design is utterly simple and elegant, like with the Madison Rounders by Ellusionist or the Virtuoso deck.  You're making a zombie deck - zombies are far more interesting in color than in black-and-white these days.  No disrespect to EC - they did some masterful work in their era.

Regarding the courts - two-headed is the way to go.  People will go around flipping court cards and revealing them to other players - it's why the two-headed courts came into existence in the first place.  I've seen some great decks that have the two heads different from each other - for example, one head can be a straight-up drawing of the art subject in real life, and the flipped head is him or her as a zombie; before and after, so to speak.

Magic Finish does have many names, the most common being "Magic Finish" and "Performance Coating".  Some decks even have "Air Cushion" or "Cambric" listed on the box even though it's really Magic Finish (there's a difference in the smell; MF has a sharper, more chemical scent).  One magic company, Ellusionist, was offered the chance to test the coating on what was at the time a new deck, the Gold Arcane deck, and back then USPC was using the code name of "Performance Coating" for the new finish.  When USPC christened it Magic Finish, Ellusionist opted to keep the code name, thinking that it sounded classier.  Personally, I agree - not to mention that putting the word "magic" on a deck of cards could throw off some poker players!  But when you get down to brass tacks, you can call the coating anything you wish.  Even "Zombie Entrails Finish"!  There's already been one deck calling it "Apocalyptic Finish", so why not?

If Bicycle gives you a hard time on the box art and you think it's too much of a compromise, consider going without the Bicycle brand name.  It is indeed true that "Bicycle (TM)" is a brand sought after by many collectors - there are some who ONLY buy Bicycle, nothing else.  But it's also true that if a deck's design is good enough, the Bicycle name won't matter in the end.  Halfway into the KS campaign for the "Federal 52" deck, its creator gave in to backers' demands and created alternate versions of both of the decks his campaign was offering, minus the Bicycle branding.  Before Federal 52 broke the record of highest-funded KS deck project, the previous record holder was a high-design deck called "Misc. Goods Co. Playing Cards", also known as the Pedale Design deck after the one-man company that created it.  Not only was it the furthest thing from a Bicycle-branded deck, it didn't even initially have strong appeal to card collectors - in the beginning it was of more interest to people who liked the art.  Once it got featured on a few design blogs, the rest was history.

As far as stock - many, MANY decks make no claims at all on the box about the stock.  USPC will probably give your company two choices, Bicycle and Bee Casino, and that's it.  The stocks are defined by being within a certain range of thicknesses, and the two ranges actually overlap, with Bicycle being the lighter of the two at the low end of the thickness ranges and Bee Casino being the heavier at the high end.

Simply put, Bee Casino stock will cost a bit more and require custom tuck boxes that are farmed out to a third-party company, adding eight weeks to the entire production process.  I love Bee Casino grade, but I also find nothing wrong whatsoever with Bicycle stock.  If you want the heavier stock, consider it as a stretch goal, after you've already locked in the pledges you need to get it made at all.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 03:46:48 AM by Don Boyer »
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Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2013, 08:42:39 AM »
 

BrianDenham

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I am absorbing all the info you gave me. I went to bed right after reading it with thoughts of everything you mentioned bouncing about in my head.

I will spend this weekend adding color to a redesigned back and adding color to the faces.

What do you think about more customized pips? What about the numbers and Letters?

I woke up this morning with the thought of adding animation to the cards-either at the very bottom and tops, or the corners. Maybe little zombies in the corners or bigger zombies at the tops and bottoms but sideways so you can flip it and see a full bodied zombie. I've been watching YouTube videos of dealers flipping cards to see where the best animation points would be.

I'll call the feature, "Re-Animation" or "Re-Animators."
 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2013, 08:55:37 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I am absorbing all the info you gave me. I went to bed right after reading it with thoughts of everything you mentioned bouncing about in my head.

I will spend this weekend adding color to a redesigned back and adding color to the faces.

What do you think about more customized pips? What about the numbers and Letters?

I woke up this morning with the thought of adding animation to the cards-either at the very bottom and tops, or the corners. Maybe little zombies in the corners or bigger zombies at the tops and bottoms but sideways so you can flip it and see a full bodied zombie. I've been watching YouTube videos of dealers flipping cards to see where the best animation points would be.

I'll call the feature, "Re-Animation" or "Re-Animators."

Custom pips and custom index values are fine - but observe the successful designs that came before, both classic and custom.  Make a pip too radically different, people won't recognize it.  Make an index hard to read, it loses usefulness to players and magicians alike.  The "golden mean" of indices is instantly recognizable, usually a sans-serif font and a simple line for the "1" in 10 - this makes all of the indices of uniform width, narrow without being ridiculous.  Art decks like yours could actually do fine with standard indices - no distractions from the art.

The "Re-Animation" feature?  Priceless!  I can imagine something unique - most similarly animated decks have the animations in the same place.  I can picture a human or humans being chased from one side of the card to the other by a zombie (or zombie horde).  Done right, you can actually flip any side when the deck is in order to make the animation come alive!  Just remembers you have 52-56 frames to get it done...
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Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2013, 09:56:10 AM »
 

BrianDenham

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new box front art redesign, now with the Re-Animation feature added. What do you think?

Also, any thoughts on stretch goals? I just want to hit our mark, but it would be swell if we went over. I know horror movie guys that I could potentially add some really cool items but I don't know. What about bricks. I saw other posts mentioning the bricks as rewards for re-sellers.
 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2013, 12:56:24 PM »
 

Collector

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Tastes differ. I think it will be good to compare two variants of cards (B&W - coloured) before final decision. I like B&R&W more. I don't like zombies in general (I know it's weird because many people love these dears nowdays). But this deck attracted my attention. Number cards are interesting. Is it possible to make ALL number cards (Spades, Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds) different but in the same style of numbers? It'll be interesting to see court cards. I also think that two way court cards will be better for this deck.


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Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2013, 01:49:55 PM »
 

BrianDenham

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Thank you for your comments. It has been difficult to design different number cards as zombies. But before pitching the idea to my partner I had come up with several designs per number. The 4, 8 and 10 has been the most challenging but they are coming together. Some have suggested that one suite have the zombies as numbers while another suite could have them doing other things. One idea is one suite would have zombies from a birds eye perspective and they would be where the pips would be. So 2-10 zombies walking down a street. Another idea would a zombie doing the thriller dance or a thriller dance card-showing the different steps to the dance. There are a ton of ideas right now that it's been tough to pick and stay with just one.

I am pretty sure that nobody wants to see the same zombie pose on every 2, every 3, and so on.

The color will be very subdued/washed-out but with a deep red making up the majority of the color per card.
 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2013, 06:47:16 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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Thank you for your comments. It has been difficult to design different number cards as zombies. But before pitching the idea to my partner I had come up with several designs per number. The 4, 8 and 10 has been the most challenging but they are coming together. Some have suggested that one suite have the zombies as numbers while another suite could have them doing other things. One idea is one suite would have zombies from a birds eye perspective and they would be where the pips would be. So 2-10 zombies walking down a street. Another idea would a zombie doing the thriller dance or a thriller dance card-showing the different steps to the dance. There are a ton of ideas right now that it's been tough to pick and stay with just one.

I am pretty sure that nobody wants to see the same zombie pose on every 2, every 3, and so on.

The color will be very subdued/washed-out but with a deep red making up the majority of the color per card.

I don't know if dance routines can be copyrighted or whatnot, but you should look into it before using the "Thriller" dance routine.

The idea of placing zombies in different scenes on the spot cards with scene types divided by suit is a great one - almost like a transformation deck.  Clubs could be on a country club golf course, hearts could be in a hospital, diamonds in a shopping mall (jewelry store), spades...not sure what would be good...perhaps the city hall?  Or a casino!  Yeah, I like that...  Arranging zombies into standard pip configurations as they wreak mayhem would really be cool.
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Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2013, 03:08:06 AM »
 

BrianDenham

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The idea of the zombies in a casino is awesome. I'm sketching out some ideas right now.
 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2013, 04:33:04 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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The idea of the zombies in a casino is awesome. I'm sketching out some ideas right now.

You can even have them wearing shirts and other scraps of clothing that have the suit marked on them.  Spades should be easy enough, since British convicts have been wearing spades on their clothes for years!  You can find subtle, different ways for each zombie to show off his suit - the shadow they cast on the floor, a blood splatter pattern, something they're carrying as a crude weapon, etc.  Your clubs could literally be carrying heavy sticks, swinging them at the golfers as they try to flee.

If you want to simplify the concept just a touch, make the zombies AND the victims represent the pips on each card, so that way you don't have a zillion people on one seven of clubs, with only seven of them being zombies.  I can see the three of hearts now - two zombies munching on extremities with the victim's torso, heart exposed, sitting between them...  :))
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Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2013, 06:04:48 AM »
 

BrianDenham

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I wonder how much I can get away with since the USPCC has some regulations on the type of art that can be on the cards. I may be skirting close to the edge with some of the artwork but I won't know until the whole deck is submitted.
 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2013, 06:44:18 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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I wonder how much I can get away with since the USPCC has some regulations on the type of art that can be on the cards. I may be skirting close to the edge with some of the artwork but I won't know until the whole deck is submitted.

The only thing I've ever seen them censor outright was a Big Blind Media "Bicycle Karnival" series deck called Inferno.  They removed the Bicycle branding and forced changes on the more "demonic/Satanic" imagery.  Caused a lot of controversy.  But seeing as how there's umpteen zombie decks out there now, including not one but TWO of their own design, I can't imagine them making too much of a fuss.  One of them actually changed the suits, using an anatomically-correct heart for heart pips...
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Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2013, 08:12:17 PM »
 

BrianDenham

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Don, that's good to know. Maybe I won't have much problem with Bicycle over the zombie bits.

So far as of this posting I am $1250 away from hitting the goal and I have 18 days left to go.



Any thoughts about adding stretch goals?

I had a backer ask about a second colored tuck(box) today. He said some games he plays he uses 2 decks and he would like a second colored deck to keep the decks separate. He mentioned others are probably wanting to back this project but are held back by the lack of a second tuck.

I will try to update the Kickstarter this week with new art. Some of the court card bidders have sent in their likenesses and I want to get a head start on drawing those. PLus I think I need to show off what the animation will look like. Some people-including friends of mine- don't know what a flip animation is. I thought everybody made those in school with stick figure commandos and jets with explosions. LOL or in my day, bi-planes. (Sorry for lol-ing)
 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2013, 01:04:37 AM »
 

Don Boyer

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Don, that's good to know. Maybe I won't have much problem with Bicycle over the zombie bits.

So far as of this posting I am $1250 away from hitting the goal and I have 18 days left to go.

Any thoughts about adding stretch goals?

I had a backer ask about a second colored tuck(box) today. He said some games he plays he uses 2 decks and he would like a second colored deck to keep the decks separate. He mentioned others are probably wanting to back this project but are held back by the lack of a second tuck.

I will try to update the Kickstarter this week with new art. Some of the court card bidders have sent in their likenesses and I want to get a head start on drawing those. PLus I think I need to show off what the animation will look like. Some people-including friends of mine- don't know what a flip animation is. I thought everybody made those in school with stick figure commandos and jets with explosions. LOL or in my day, bi-planes. (Sorry for lol-ing)

A second deck color would make for a great stretch goal - a red deck and a black deck, for example.  Same faces, different colors for the backs, making for a perfect "poker set" pair.

Hold off on those drawings at least until you're certain that you'll be funded, if not until the project's close.  No point in spending time now on them when you want to focus on promoting the hell out of your deck to the goal and beyond.

There's a few decks that use "flip-book" style animations in them already on the market - you could use one of them as an example if you wanted to save time, then include preliminary sketches of what the animations would look like, just a few frames to give people an idea.

Those decks are:
Fantastique by Dan and Dave
The Mechanic Deck by House of Playing Cards
Bicycle Stick Man by USPC
Bicycle Cartoon Deck, Cartoon Deck #2 and Fart-toon Deck (magic decks) - I don't know which company made them.

Your least expensive and most appropriate choice would be Stick Man - it's only a couple of bucks and the animation is all in the margin.  Fantastique has the best animation but is sold out and costs maybe $20 or so - the entire card back changes from card to card, so when in the proper order the whole thing comes to life; less practical for games, but a beautiful deck.
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Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2013, 04:02:23 PM »
 

BrianDenham

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Back from the dead! So the Ultimate Zombie cards are at Bicycle. I am expecting about 6 weeks from now to have the cards shipped but I am sitting here with fingers crossed hoping it all goes smoothly.

I posted some of the cards on my Facebook page and I am including the link here.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152238147568222.1073741829.21915743221&type=1&l=8e4b381b77

Here are some updated and final graphics.
 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2013, 09:18:05 PM »
 

Don Boyer

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As much as zombies are a bit overdone by now, I regret not backing this one.  The number concept was innovative - it's not something I've ever seen before.
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Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2013, 12:08:49 AM »
 

Anthony

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I'm with Don, I wish I had known sooner. You did a very unique twist on an overproduced theme, I give you a lot of credit for that. The drawings themselves were great, but to incorporate the numbers the way you did, and in a very inventive way for some of the numbers, was fantastic.

Tossing it on my wanted list and hoping for the best, lol

Kudos on a successful project!
 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2013, 04:06:50 PM »
 

BrianDenham

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Thanks for the comments. This project and art evolved as it went on. I don't think the earlier version really showed the potential of the final version. I should have done a better job of selling it early but really as I got further into the art I was able to learn to really play around in Photoshop and make the cards pop by adding some color. if it wasn't for Don saying he loved the art but I should think about adding color I wouldn't have went for it. Thank you to everyone who has commented on this thread and others. I have learned a ton being on here.

We just proofed the final version of the deck and it's ready to start printing. Here is the uncut version.

There is a reveal card on one of the Jokers but it is small and subtle there so I repeated it on the tuck.


« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 11:13:39 PM by BrianDenham »
 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2013, 04:16:25 PM »
 

Emmanuel

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I wish I had backed this deck. Fantastic job Brian!
 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2013, 06:09:22 PM »
 

BrianDenham

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Update! We just got the Ultimate Zombie cards from USPCC.

I've posted a couple of pics here as they arrived.  http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/527023912/the-ultimate-zombie-deck/posts/694178

Thank you all for your support and inspiration. I'll be busy for a few days mailing them out. I hope to have a new Kickstarter deck ready after everyone gets their cards.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 06:11:37 PM by BrianDenham »
 

Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2013, 06:20:05 PM »
 

CBJ

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Update! We just got the Ultimate Zombie cards from USPCC.

I've posted a couple of pics here as they arrived.  http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/527023912/the-ultimate-zombie-deck/posts/694178

Thank you all for your support and inspiration. I'll be busy for a few days mailing them out. I hope to have a new Kickstarter deck ready after everyone gets their cards.



Where will we be able to pick these up if we didn't pledge in the KS campaign?

CBJ
  I was the featured collector on UC for May/June, check it out: http://bit.ly/UC_MyCollection

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Re: The Ultimate Zombie Deck (KS)
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2014, 01:08:01 PM »
 

newtsgames

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I'm glad I backed this one.  I'm not a big zombie fan but the concept was original.  Nice addition to my collection.
Done