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Soliloquy · « **on:** May 24, 2013, 01:55:51 PM »

I've found an artist to work on one of my ideas, a deck based on the legend of Lady Godiva's famous ride. (Named Lady of Coventry to avoid trouble from the chocolate makers.) I'll have a higher resolution image later for those who'd like to see more detail, but I'd like to hear opinions on the layout. I already told the artist the consensus would probably be to get rid of the indexes in the lower left and upper right.

Collector · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2013, 02:35:09 PM »

I like and I like with four indices.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2013, 03:48:43 PM »

Quote from: Soliloquy on May 24, 2013, 01:55:51 PM

I've found an artist to work on one of my ideas, a deck based on the legend of Lady Godiva's famous ride. (Named Lady of Coventry to avoid trouble from the chocolate makers.) I'll have a higher resolution image later for those who'd like to see more detail, but I'd like to hear opinions on the layout. I already told the artist the consensus would probably be to get rid of the indexes in the lower left and upper right.

You could call them Lady Godiva. I don't think there's many people left today from the Godiva family to complain. The chocolate company can't give you too much grief, since they got their name from an historical figure. I don't think the makers of Lincoln Logs took the city of New York to court when it constructed the Lincoln Tunnel to New Jersey... If I started making Henry VIII chocolates and you created a King Henry VIII deck that used none of my company's imagery and was done in a wholly different style, I can't see where I'd really have a case against you - your deck isn't based on my chocolates, but on the historical figure. (But since I'm in the chocolate business, I think the makers of the Oh Henry bar would have a bone to pick with me!)

For an ordinary deck, many Americans dislike four indices. But this is different - it's no ordinary deck. It might work for your design, creating a proper frame for your art. A good way to know for sure would be to try it both ways.

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 24, 2013, 07:21:25 PM »

Soililoquy - I like the "Q" in the diamond. Of course I do, because that is what I'm doing in my deck. I might suggest taking away the top right and lower left index. You have two many things going on with the card. It's nice and all and creates balance but only 5% of the population is left handed. I'm amazed at your artist for making it work even with the fat boarder. The outer boarder needs to be a bit smaller.

Minus the top right and lower left index and smaller boarders would give lots of room for your artist.

May I also suggest maybe maybe making it different on each reversible side. I think that is the future of cards. You could make it as non conspicuous as the town is on fire in the background on one side.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #4 on:** May 25, 2013, 12:32:46 AM »

Quote from: sprouts1115 on May 24, 2013, 07:21:25 PM

Soililoquy - I like the "Q" in the diamond. Of course I do, because that is what I'm doing in my deck. I might suggest taking away the top right and lower left index. You have two many things going on with the card. It's nice and all and creates balance but only 5% of the population is left handed. I'm amazed at your artist for making it work even with the fat boarder. The outer boarder needs to be a bit smaller.

Minus the top right and lower left index and smaller boarders would give lots of room for your artist.

May I also suggest maybe maybe making it different on each reversible side. I think that is the future of cards. You could make it as non conspicuous as the town is on fire in the background on one side.

People fuss more about thin borders on the backs than the fronts - I think they look fine.

"The future of cards?" Certain decks benefit from that feature - this isn't one of them. And why on Earth would Coventry be on fire?

Soliloquy · « **Reply #5 on:** May 25, 2013, 02:11:04 AM »

Thanks for your reassurance Don, I just may take your advice and change the name. The logo for this and the artwork isn't going to bear any resemblance to the chocolate makers, so I should be ok.

Actually, sprouts, making the two sides subtly different is already part of the plan.

One side will have the townspeople closing and hiding their eyes, the other will have them astonished and gawking. I think it will add an element of humor.

Lotrek · « **Reply #6 on:** May 25, 2013, 05:21:11 AM »

Pretty nice! I like it so far, I also like the idea, as I'm particularly attracted by medieval themes (but not habits

) Just be careful with the colors! The design is very flamboyant and I think it should be balanced with less "noise" on the color scheme.

I agree with Don about the name. Forget chocolates and go ahead. Everyone knows Lady Godiva. Well, almost...

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 25, 2013, 08:44:39 AM »

Soliloquy - If your getting rid of top right corner index, Extend the town to the far right. Include a fair side door. On the opposite side of the card put a small hole in the door(Peeping Tom) If you want to get bold, have Lady Godiva show a bit more nipple. If I'm playing with your cards and I see someone turn a card. They probably got the queen of diamonds.

Don - Future of cards? I'll tell you a secret. Tarot cards are one sided, but it has a different interpretation if it's flipped. What if you made reversible Tarot cards that are slightly different on each side to convey the meaning. Tarot cards are ripe for change but that is entirely another animal.

Soliloquy · « **Reply #8 on:** May 25, 2013, 11:07:24 AM »

Thanks Lotrek! The palette will be influenced by medieval illustrated manuscripts of the 13th century, around when the legend began to spread.

You can't really see it well because I didn't provide a high enough resolution, but Peeping Tom is already gawking at her from just below the horse's snout. And in one of the Jokers he's getting struck dead!

Don Boyer · « **Reply #9 on:** May 25, 2013, 11:29:15 PM »

Quote from: sprouts1115 on May 25, 2013, 08:44:39 AM

I'll tell you a secret. Tarot cards are one sided, but it has a different interpretation if it's flipped. What if you made reversible Tarot cards that are slightly different on each side to convey the meaning. Tarot cards are ripe for change but that is entirely another animal.

If you think that's a secret, well - that explains a lot...

Her present Queen of Diamonds wouldn't need to be flipped by a player, as at a glance it's pretty much rotationally symmetrical from the top half to the bottom.

Quote from: Soliloquy on May 25, 2013, 11:07:24 AM

Thanks Lotrek! The palette will be influenced by medieval illustrated manuscripts of the 13th century, around when the legend began to spread.

You can't really see it well because I didn't provide a high enough resolution, but Peeping Tom is already gawking at her from just below the horse's snout. And in one of the Jokers he's getting struck dead!

Is he getting struck blind in the other?

There's a few variations on what happened to Peeping Tom the Tailor. In some, he's struck dead, in others, just blinded. In some, it happens as a divine intervention, in others, the townsfolk or the town guard take matters into their own hands.

My question would be: if everyone was indoors with the windows shuttered, how did anyone know Tom peeped? Was he also known as Blabbering Tom?

You seem to have gotten lucky finding a quality artist - I'm looking forward to seeing it in color!

Soliloquy · « **Reply #10 on:** May 26, 2013, 04:14:02 AM »

Well, unluckily for Tom, having him struck dead would be easier to illustrate. And some historians believe the "struck dead" version may have had its origins in an actual event; one of the early actors playing Tom in Coventry's annual reenactment might have been killed in a pageant wagon accident after the procession, and thereafter no one wanted to play the role. He had to be represented by a wooden statue after that.

(Looks like someone took an axe to his nether regions. I'm surprised that didn't make it into the lore.)

I'll be sure to update the thread with a colored image once it's finished. I think I really lucked out with the artist; he's got degrees in both art and history and really seems to know the medieval era.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #11 on:** May 27, 2013, 12:10:57 AM »

Quote from: Soliloquy on May 26, 2013, 04:14:02 AM

(Looks like someone took an axe to his nether regions. I'm surprised that didn't make it into the lore.)

I'll be sure to update the thread with a colored image once it's finished. I think I really lucked out with the artist; he's got degrees in both art and history and really seems to know the medieval era.

To me it looks like the ax was used at the elbows - is he armless as well? What's next - toothless?

One look at a naked woman causes all this - who would have thought...

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 27, 2013, 12:40:28 PM »

Soliloquy - I was updating my save websites and thought this might give you ideas. http://www.listology.com/list/character-archetypes
To make it clear I was suggesting a simple door in the top right corner. On the reversible side (bottom left), Have the door have a peek hole. Also on that side have Lady Godiva show her nipple. It makes a simple story and eliminates the extra elements of the townsfolk.

Don - I find it interesting in the Tarot the famous Rider-Waite (1908) http://www.albideuter.de/html/waite.html which is the standard and most popular tarot deck today...

Took the Top part of the Visconi-Sforza http://www.albideuter.de/html/visconti-sforza.html 15th century deck

And the bottom part of the Sola-Busca http://www.albideuter.de/html/sola-busca.html 15th century deck

Mashed them together(the proof is the 3 of Heart) and made the modern Tarot which is the equivalent of the Bicycle 808 series in popularity today. Tell you another secret. In my third deck which will be 5 suits I'm throwing the Tarot back into the deck. I have Kings, Queen and Bishop's oh my. Are there any Popes in the Tarot?

Don Boyer · « **Reply #13 on:** May 28, 2013, 12:55:37 AM »

Quote from: sprouts1115 on May 27, 2013, 12:40:28 PM

Soliloquy - I was updating my save websites and thought this might give you ideas. http://www.listology.com/list/character-archetypes
To make it clear I was suggesting a simple door in the top right corner. On the reversible side (bottom left), Have the door have a peek hole. Also on that side have Lady Godiva show her nipple. It makes a simple story and eliminates the extra elements of the townsfolk.

Don - I find it interesting in the Tarot the famous Rider-Waite (1908) http://www.albideuter.de/html/waite.html which is the standard and most popular tarot deck today...

Took the Top part of the Visconi-Sforza http://www.albideuter.de/html/visconti-sforza.html 15th century deck

And the bottom part of the Sola-Busca http://www.albideuter.de/html/sola-busca.html 15th century deck

Mashed them together(the proof is the 3 of Heart) and made the modern Tarot which is the equivalent of the Bicycle 808 series in popularity today. Tell you another secret. In my third deck which will be 5 suits I'm throwing the Tarot back into the deck. I have Kings, Queen and Bishop's oh my. Are there any Popes in the Tarot?

If you want to talk about Soliloquy's deck idea, great. If you want to continue promoting your deck, you have to do it on your topic, NOT HERE. I'm speaking as a moderator warning a user.

sprouts1115 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 31, 2013, 07:51:41 PM »

Soliloquy - Do you have any other Legends that your planing? Would like to research on the Legend and maybe give you ideas with the cards?

See how they told a story in the Tarot and they didn't even have reversible cards back then. With reversible cards you can tell a story....This card is "Judgement"

Don Boyer · « **Reply #15 on:** June 01, 2013, 02:10:31 AM »

Quote from: sprouts1115 on May 31, 2013, 07:51:41 PM

Don - So, do you agree or disagree Rider-Waite (1908) used the 15th century Tarot to make his deck? Are you familiar with Tarot?

Soliloquy - Do you have any other Legends that your planing? Would like to research on the Legend and maybe give you ideas with the cards?

See how they told a story in the Tarot and they didn't even have reversible cars back then. You can tell a story with reversible sides..... judgement

If you wish to continue this, please stop cluttering up Soliloquy's topic and take it to PMs. This is your final warning.

Soliloquy · « **Reply #16 on:** June 02, 2013, 05:59:37 PM »

Version 2 with some color and shading. Going to have to decide between parchment background/more muted colors versus white/more modern colors. The artist really likes the banner, though I'm worried it might be too busy. Your thoughts?

Don Boyer · « **Reply #17 on:** June 03, 2013, 01:25:19 AM »

Quote from: Soliloquy on June 02, 2013, 05:59:37 PM

Version 2 with some color and shading. Going to have to decide between parchment background/more muted colors versus white/more modern colors. The artist really likes the banner, though I'm worried it might be too busy. Your thoughts?

The banner looks OK, except that proportional to the surrounding buildings (including the one from which it flies) it's freakin' HUGE. And banners were usually on a pole that's mounted to the structure rather than sticking out of a window. Perhaps if the banner were instead a flag mounted on a flagpole it would look better, either atop a building or freestanding.

The white is fine - too many "parchment look" decks out there now, and this gives you true, honest colors and frankly looks attractive.

The detail work is incredible, particularly in the frame and indices. Just be certain that the details can be accurately captured on USPC's presses. I've seen a few decks out there that when shown as a computer graphic look absolutely stunning - but when printed, too much detail is lost and it ends up looking muddied and indistinct. Bicycle Venom and Venom Strike would be two prime examples - potentially beautiful deck backs practically ruined because so much was lost in print. Some earlier print runs of Ellusionists Black Arcane decks were the same - they were very dark, but in the process a lot of the gray detail was lost and became a sea of black.

Rick Davidson · « **Reply #18 on:** June 03, 2013, 02:11:54 AM »

There is a ton of detail in that wow, lovely. Personally I'd be dying at the thought of a full deck but it would be something

. I think Don's right, the detail at that size might be tight, something to check out

Alex Willis · « **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2013, 01:26:58 PM »

I like that the banner fills a void in the design, I dislike how the building and mounting of the spearstick don't make sense with the banner... plus the spear appears to be aimed at her head. How did she die in the end?

Either way, you've found a great artist, i just hope the detail translates well.

Collector · « **Reply #20 on:** June 07, 2013, 06:43:56 PM »

I understand why you removed two pips from this card. Well, I like. Good luck.

Alex Willis · « **Reply #21 on:** June 07, 2013, 07:58:47 PM »

I can't believe I missed it, pretty sneaky having the woman in window covering her eyes on one side but not on the obverse.

Don Boyer · « **Reply #22 on:** June 08, 2013, 01:06:34 AM »

Quote from: ManMadeGames on June 07, 2013, 07:58:47 PM

I can't believe I missed it, pretty sneaky having the woman in window covering her eyes on one side but not on the obverse.

That's no woman, that's Peeping Tom!

Soliloquy · « **Reply #23 on:** June 08, 2013, 02:45:04 AM »

Another sample image for you guys to look at. Personally I like the parchment background (though I'd want the final version lighter), but the artist doesn't. Is it really that bad? If there's enough hatred I'll rethink it.

USPCC is urging me to shrink the design by 3% in order to avoid registration errors, though I worry that will make it even harder to read the indices when fanned.

(Oh, and picture the yellow areas in the border as slightly metallic gold.)

Lotrek · « **Reply #24 on:** June 08, 2013, 03:01:33 AM »

I think that the picture has too many details. Most of them will be lost and become "mud" when printed in the actual size.
As for parchment, I like it but I think it needs to be lighter.
Just an opinion though...

The banner's size is okay, medieval manuscript illuminations didn't pay much attention to the right proportions.