Origins Playing Cards

[Rick Davidson]

Haha thanks guys.  Yes I'd have some problems with the court cards going silver.  And conceptually it would be out of kilter.  All the design is inspired by 16th century art and they really loved their gold

[Don Boyer]

Just for fun.  Imagining these were metallic - I know which one I like but which would you prefer...  Antique silver/black box, Gold/dark blue box

Gold/Dark Blue. It pops a bit more and fits the Origins style better. Silver/Black has been done so many times.

Gold is better. Even stock exchanges agree with me 

Haha thanks guys.  Yes I'd have some problems with the court cards going silver.  And conceptually it would be out of kilter.  All the design is inspired by 16th century art and they really loved their gold

Bear in mind that how the metallic ink looks in person and how it looks on a screen will be two different things.  It's why T11 didn't realize the gold-on-black Monarchs would look how they did until they were printed.

It's OK to use gold in your case - if you REALLY use gold, a lot of it.  I think that thickening up the gold lines to make them more prominent would be a step backwards - in which case, have you considered swapping gold for black and vice versa, making the linework in black and the background in gold?  That would really convey "GOLD!!!"

[MrMollusk]

Just for fun.  Imagining these were metallic - I know which one I like but which would you prefer...  Antique silver/black box, Gold/dark blue box.

Gold's definitely the way to go. It suits the style so much better, and looks awesome with the court cards.

You could always try lightening the back up a bit. Maybe not a navy blue, but a very dark grey could retain the style and have the gold pop out a bit more.

[Rick Davidson]

Yes I think beefing up the linework would give it more wow.  I've just finished the site which has updated renders of the box. - www.originscards.com

I've been trawling the forums but haven't been able to track down any info on hiring a warehouse to ship the decks.  Anyone point me in the right direction?  Just looking at options

[Don Boyer]

Yes I think beefing up the linework would give it more wow.  I've just finished the site which has updated renders of the box. - www.originscards.com

I've been trawling the forums but haven't been able to track down any info on hiring a warehouse to ship the decks.  Anyone point me in the right direction?  Just looking at options

A keyword search of "fulfillment center" on Google will give you many good leads.

Murphy's Magic will generally sell anything playing cards, so they're worth an inquiry.

But before you do any of that, I think you should still shop this around to the "major players" in the custom deck business - T11, D&D, E, CARC, TBC, Blaine, etc.  It could be simpler and more profitable than fighting to get the deck made through crowdfunding, then turning over some of the profit to a fulfillment center.  At least do price comparisons, if you can get a "major" interested.

[Rick Davidson]

Boy Don you're the go to man around here, thanks again.  Fulfilment center .. got it. 

Yes that's the way I'd prefer to go as well, I've been in touch with a couple of the big guys.  But I'll add those mentioned to the list thx.  Options open.  Really appreciate your advice. 

Got me thinking on that gold, might have a tweak.  And thx Mollusk, might be onto something.

[Card Player]

But before you do any of that, I think you should still shop this around to the "major players" in the custom deck business - T11, D&D, E, CARC, TBC, Blaine, etc.  It could be simpler and more profitable than fighting to get the deck made through crowdfunding, then turning over some of the profit to a fulfillment center.  At least do price comparisons, if you can get a "major" interested.

I was going mention CARC. They also distributed Prime and the Legends decks for international productions. This project does have the feel of something CARC would work with.

If it were me, I would not want another companies name on my creation. I would want total control of my design, how they are sold and at what price. CARC and Fullboatdealer would fit what I would be looking to do. Don is right though, nothing wrong with listening to what companies might be offering.

[Rick Davidson]

Actually that sounds just what I'm looking for Lagacy.  You're right, I want to keep control on things.  Getting a few people saying kickstarter is the way but needing a fulfillment center throws a spanner in the works.  Fullboat has come up as well.  I'll get in touch with a few people, but getting back into the design.  Here are the latest workings, be interested in your thoughts.  Flipping the Queen?  Still might look at filling out the gold foil.   

Maybe I should have put this in another thread or kept the thread more open..

[sprouts1115]

Rick Davidson - Notice your going with the Rouen theme.   Very bold!  What does your seal say?  The text...  Do you think you will go with metallic Gold?  On your back I've hear Metallic gold shows better in solid than in lines....

[Don Boyer]

Actually that sounds just what I'm looking for Lagacy.  You're right, I want to keep control on things.  Getting a few people saying kickstarter is the way but needing a fulfillment center throws a spanner in the works.  Fullboat has come up as well.  I'll get in touch with a few people, but getting back into the design.  Here are the latest workings, be interested in your thoughts.  Flipping the Queen?  Still might look at filling out the gold foil.   

Maybe I should have put this in another thread or kept the thread more open..

The queen is elegant, youthful and gorgeous.

The king - what the hell is going on with his face?  He looks more like that squid-faced character from the Pirates of the Caribbean movies!  He doesn't look human!  everything from the nose up is fine, even that hat he's wearing instead of a crown.  But that beard - it's ALIVE!!

[sprouts1115]

it all depends.  Do you want the King of Spades to look like this or this?   Is he missing part of his mustache?

[Don Boyer]

Rick Davidson - Notice your going with the Rouen theme.   Very bold!  What does your seal say?  The text...  Do you think you will go with metallic Gold?  On your back I've hear Metallic gold shows better in solid than in lines....

How is using a two-centuries-old standard "very bold"?  You make it sound like something no one ever uses...

Re the metallic gold ink - did you read what was written before on the topic?

it all depends.  Do you want the King of Spades to look like this or this?   Is he missing part of his mustache?

What is the "it" on which it depends?  It clearly has a full mustache.

[Card Player]

Actually that sounds just what I'm looking for Lagacy.  You're right, I want to keep control on things.  Getting a few people saying kickstarter is the way but needing a fulfillment center throws a spanner in the works.  Fullboat has come up as well.  I'll get in touch with a few people, but getting back into the design.  Here are the latest workings, be interested in your thoughts.  Flipping the Queen?  Still might look at filling out the gold foil.   

Maybe I should have put this in another thread or kept the thread more open..

Hey Rick

Suits and Gold Inlay: On the Queen you were using a sunburst effect on the background of the diamond suits. I was wondering if you noticed inconsistently with that design from the King of Spade you created. But now I see you did realize and updated the queen by removing the sunburst effect. It was very subtle but I did pick up on it.  The gold inlay on the suits without that sunburst background is much better. Its elegant looking and the suit maintains its origin colors of black and red. Anymore gold inlay then that would be too much. Right now they look really nice and maintain the function of the suits.

Color Tint: The "color tint" you suggest in one of the examples does NOT work for me. I think you hit the color arrangement of the court cards just right from the beginning.

King of Spades: I'm good with the beard on the king of spade. As long as the beard is in-line with the mouth and eyes you straitened out. The beard is consistent with the look of the originals you are modeling your cards after.

Tuck Box: I would not go crazy with all the quotes your using on the tuck box examples. One quote is nice but from what I saw your using more then one. More visual font and art, less of the tuck box message board.

Keep up the good work. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the court cards.

[Rick Davidson]

Haha laughing.  Cheers guys, great comments.  Yes Dan you're right, squidman on the beard    It's tied in to the original art but I am trying to freshen things up.  The historic queens were plain ugly, so I just went with something new there.  Felt the beard style had to stay but I could tone it down a little.

Good thoughts all round Legacy thanks.  Yes I couldn't make the sunburst fly, too out there.  And yep, reworking the tuck to tie in with a few other ideas.  You guys are good value.  I can't shake Pirates of the Caribbean now

[Don Boyer]

Haha laughing.  Cheers guys, great comments.  Yes Dan you're right, squidman on the beard    It's tied in to the original art but I am trying to freshen things up.  The historic queens were plain ugly, so I just went with something new there.  Felt the beard style had to stay but I could tone it down a little.

Good thoughts all round Legacy thanks.  Yes I couldn't make the sunburst fly, too out there.  And yep, reworking the tuck to tie in with a few other ideas.  You guys are good value.  I can't shake Pirates of the Caribbean now

I still wonder why so many people insist on calling me Dan when my name is Don... 

Just take the old King you're using as a model and compare it with a real bearded face.  Remember, unless you're looking at the very first Rouen deck, the rest are all copies that got further and further from the original with each subsequent copy.  I think your instinct on the Queen was excellent and that you should follow it up with the King while not entirely neglecting the historical appearance.  The Queen's hair looks real.  The King's hair looks like ropey dreadlocks (just like that squid-guy)!  I'll grant that Kings of the era likely wore those silly wigs, but still, you can give the hair a more realistic appearance.  Look at the White Knuckle playing cards - the artist actually used live models for his deck and gave the art a more three-dimensional appearance by giving the images more depth.  Don't emulate him precisely, but his hair looks like hair.  Playing card hair looks like, well, playing card hair...

[Collector]

The queen is elegant, youthful and gorgeous.

... But that beard ...!!

+1. The face of that old French prototype King looks more natural than this one.

[Card Player]

The Queen's hair looks real.  The King's hair looks like ropey dreadlocks (just like that squid-guy)!  I'll grant that Kings of the era likely wore those silly wigs, but still, you can give the hair a more realistic appearance.

Hey Dan, I mean Don ...

I agree with you about the kings hair. Then again, standard USPCC court cards look that way also. 

It looks like Rick is mixing many styles from the queen to the king. Rick should find one facial style and be consistent with whatever he chooses. If your going to do a mouth and nose one way (queen), that style or line-work should be consistent in forming other facial features for other courts (nose bridge or no nose bridge, mouth definition or no mouth definition).

Don... I love those white knuckle court cards you use as an example. Those look to be illustration with graphic (photoshop) color, Rick's work looks purely graphic (photoshop) design from start to finish. You might be asking him to consider an artistic discipline (hair/white knuckle) he is not regularly accustomed to using.

[Don Boyer]

The queen is elegant, youthful and gorgeous.

... But that beard ...!!

+1. The face of that old French prototype King looks more natural than this one.

Thanks!

The Queen's hair looks real.  The King's hair looks like ropey dreadlocks (just like that squid-guy)!  I'll grant that Kings of the era likely wore those silly wigs, but still, you can give the hair a more realistic appearance.

Hey Dan, I mean Don ...

I agree with you about the kings hair. Then again, standard USPCC court cards look that way also. 

It looks like Rick is mixing many styles from the queen to the king. Rick should find one facial style and be consistent with whatever he chooses. If your going to do a mouth and nose one way (queen), that style or line-work should be consistent in forming other facial features for other courts (nose bridge or no nose bridge, mouth definition or no mouth definition).

Don... I love those white knuckle court cards you use as an example. Those look to be illustration with graphic (photoshop) color, Rick's work looks purely graphic (photoshop) design from start to finish. You might be asking him to consider an artistic discipline (hair/white knuckle) he is not regularly accustomed to using.

Actually, if I'm remembering correctly, the entire White Knuckle deck was hand drawn, start to finish.  It's why the project nearly drove the creator insane!    Even the individual spot cards had unique pips from card to card - standard pips with intricate line work that made them different in each card.  That's probably the most labor-intensive deck of mass-produced cards out there.

I'm not actually looking for Rick to alter his style - I'm asking him to use it consistently!  Use the same style he applied in the creation of the Queen to that of the other courts - including more realistically-drawn facial and hair features that look more plausible, like the kind of natural features you'd expect to see in a photograph (before it's been assaulted by a Photoshopper)!

Another fine example of this kind of detail would be the Virtuoso deck (scroll down to the section called "THE PICTURE CARDS", with the photo displaying the ten through King of Hearts).  The design on these courts are completely faithful to the traditional playing card design while at the same time having a modern, realistic appearance to them.

I think the best way to describe what I'm thinking would look good here would be if the faces on the court cards could look just as good if they appeared on the heads of characters in a realistically-drawn comic book with real human likenesses.  They needn't be utterly lifelike as in the White Knuckles, but neither do they have to appear devoid of life and unrealistic in the style of woodcuts from over two hundred years ago.

[Rick Davidson]

Haha sorry Don, I know your name too.  Late night typo

Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback.  Have reworked the King, toned back the beard, but want to put together another before I'm sure.  It's a tricky one, I don't want the faces to overpower the look of the deck but good feedback.  Probably went too far with the Queen but it works.  It's a LOT of work for 4cm across :)  Have been chatting with USPCC so moving along.  Like the comments, hope to fire you an update shortly.

[Rick Davidson]

Hi guys,

Just a quick update.  I've reworked the face cards a little, will post some tweaks on those soon.  Of course have the tuck case on the go as well, so here are new renders with the embossing.  I also have a custom label which I'll render up.  Working with USPCC on the details, coming along well, great bunch of people

[Fred]

Hey Rick, absolutely stunning designs you have there! Very elegant and intricate. I'm a big fan (:

I agree with most people's opinion on making the King's swirly wirlies less exaggerated for it to be more consistent with the theme and not look out of place while placed together with the queen. I would recommend simply keeping the curl (from the hair) on the left, but removing that ridiculous one (from the beard) on the right. The other smaller curls look fine to me and i believe would look worse if removed. (Have you designed the Jack by the way?)

One 'issue' that bothers me a lot is the flower design on the King's gown. At first glance, I thought they were soccer balls! Of course when examined closer, they are obviously flowers.. But one has to remember the scale of the final product and how the cards might look at arms length. I noticed it straight away and now i can't un-notice it! Haha :p

For some strange reason, i much prefer the flipped queen as shown in your above image. It just floats my boat a little more than the original.. I can't explain why, it just looks more proportionated to me!

As for the colour tint, i much prefer the original. The tinted version obviously has more pop and contrast, but i love the way the original is faded, aged, and thus has more consistency with the overall theme. 

Another little suggestion that come into my mind is to advise you to incorporate more of the intricate layer-like texturing design displayed for example on the front of the tuck box. I would love to see more of that kind of texturing on your court card clothing to make them pop a little more and add a bit more complexity/detail without sacrificing elegance. You could even make the textures metallic whilst keeping the base colour normal, creating different levels of detail (the Mana back design is an example of what I'm referring to). I think that would contribute further to the theme of passion and gold. I know i'm not making a lot of sense, it's late here where i live =p.

That's all i have to add for now! I hope you'll consider my suggestions (especially the soccer ball one =p). Your artistic style is amazing and i love your interpretation of this theme.

[Rick Davidson]

Thank you Froggo, nice comments.  I've been knuckling down making some changes to the male styles, bringing them more inline with the Queen and pretty happy with the results.  Gone are the curls, and the colour now is even more subdued.  It's a balance, I am drawing from references that have the curls - and the soccer balls ;) but the end artwork has to stand on it's own of course.  And I am actually looking at a metallic overlay right now, nice call.  Appreciate your thoughts, all good stuff there

[Fred]

Thank you Froggo, nice comments.  I've been knuckling down making some changes to the male styles, bringing them more inline with the Queen and pretty happy with the results.  Gone are the curls, and the colour now is even more subdued.  It's a balance, I am drawing from references that have the curls - and the soccer balls but the end artwork has to stand on it's own of course.  And I am actually looking at a metallic overlay right now, nice call.  Appreciate your thoughts, all good stuff there

All good! Always glad to contribute! Looking forward to your updates, keep em coming (:

[Card Player]

@ Rick:

Hi guys,

Just a quick update.  I've reworked the face cards a little, will post some tweaks on those soon.  Of course have the tuck case on the go as well, so here are new renders with the embossing.  I also have a custom label which I'll render up.  Working with USPCC on the details, coming along well, great bunch of people

The tuck box is looking really elegant. I like what your doing to the sides of the box (more font, less quotes). I think the side is still missing a little something.  What if you used that same dark background from the circle on the front of the tuck box and also used it behind the text on the side of the box. Not sure if that background is ink or embossing? Looks like a faded or transparent circle design on the front?

@ Froggo:

One 'issue' that bothers me a lot is the flower design on the King's gown. At first glance, I thought they were soccer balls!

I've seen a few soccer balls in my day, I could not help but wonder the same thing on first glance.

As for the colour tint, i much prefer the original. The tinted version obviously has more pop and contrast, but i love the way the original is faded, aged, and thus has more consistency with the overall theme.

I also mentioned this. Rick hit the color tint on the original designs of the courts right on the head. No darker color tint. I think that light shade of tan or gold make the dark Red and Black pips really pop. It gives it a nice contrast. 

[Rick Davidson]

Hey Legacy, thanks, yes I've trimmed back on the text on the tuck.  The circle is embossing and I could perhaps look at a little more of that on the sides.  Don't want to distract too much from the front and back artwork but worth a look.  Soccer ball is out, and yes have settled on a subdued palette to set off the pips  

Getting down to the fine details now, & working through the best options for production