THE PERSIAN EMPIRE playing card deck (KS)

[Rob Wright]

I read the comments - it seems that one of his backers also pointed out to him that if he went forward with the printer he planned to use and the prices he was charging, he would have LOST money even if he did hit the goal!  He failed to factor in enough cash to cover shipping and was just barely over the break-even point on the decks...

I think he used this as an excuse to get away from the mess. A lot of shady stuff going on. His backer list had quite a few new backers, which most people thought was CY making multiple accounts. If you look at the kicktraq numbers. Something didn't look right to me. In my opinion, I think he added several accounts to inflate his numbers. Was hoping people would jump on to get it funded. Then he could pull his pledges at the end.

[Don Boyer]

I read the comments - it seems that one of his backers also pointed out to him that if he went forward with the printer he planned to use and the prices he was charging, he would have LOST money even if he did hit the goal!  He failed to factor in enough cash to cover shipping and was just barely over the break-even point on the decks...

I think he used this as an excuse to get away from the mess. A lot of shady stuff going on. His backer list had quite a few new backers, which most people thought was CY making multiple accounts. If you look at the kicktraq numbers. Something didn't look right to me. In my opinion, I think he added several accounts to inflate his numbers. Was hoping people would jump on to get it funded. Then he could pull his pledges at the end.

The more likely plan for such scams is to place the false backing, wait for more funds to come in, leave it in place, pay the pledges you made while receiving the pledges from others, then walk away with the cash and say buh-bye.  If he pulled the pledges last-minute, it not only looks fishy but can leave him without enough to reach the goal, leaving him with nothing.  But in this case, it appears that the extra backers never came.  Or, and I consider this more likely, he created a few false accounts with $1 pledges in order to post positive comments as false backers, trying to shake the negative image his campaign ended up with.  It may be legit that he was getting more backing, since many projects do build up a head of steam towards the end.  But once his poor math was pointed out to him, I think he realized that it was too late in the game to do anything about fixing his falling house of cards.

[Alex Willis]

I don't know if he had any real devious intents, I think he saw an opportunity to reuse some art from old books and thought it'd make a good deck.  His mistake was not just saying that.  No one would think him bad for doing so, there is a wealth of lost art that should be refreshed, especially if you can clean it up and provide some depth.  I'd love to have a Alphonse Mucha deck but I'd never attempt to copy his work and pass it off as my own.  Instead, i'll just create a deck using the Liberty art style that Mucha used and create my own images.

So who knows what this guy was going to do, but my guess is that it probably wasn't so sinister.  He probably just grew more and more embarassed at the situation and decided to distance himself from it.  As his icon is a picture of himself meditating, my guess is that the negative energy was affecting him. 

As for creating fake accounts, we'll never know.  But I did see one guy with 14 pledges have "someone" pledge $3,000 to boost his rating.  Needless to say, he only got a couple of more pledges and didn't succeed.  In his case, I felt more deceived.

There, done being the attorney for the defendant. 

[Don Boyer]

I don't know if he had any real devious intents, I think he saw an opportunity to reuse some art from old books and thought it'd make a good deck.  His mistake was not just saying that.  No one would think him bad for doing so, there is a wealth of lost art that should be refreshed, especially if you can clean it up and provide some depth.  I'd love to have a Alphonse Mucha deck but I'd never attempt to copy his work and pass it off as my own.  Instead, i'll just create a deck using the Liberty art style that Mucha used and create my own images.

So who knows what this guy was going to do, but my guess is that it probably wasn't so sinister.  He probably just grew more and more embarassed at the situation and decided to distance himself from it.  As his icon is a picture of himself meditating, my guess is that the negative energy was affecting him. 

As for creating fake accounts, we'll never know.  But I did see one guy with 14 pledges have "someone" pledge $3,000 to boost his rating.  Needless to say, he only got a couple of more pledges and didn't succeed.  In his case, I felt more deceived.

There, done being the attorney for the defendant. 

If his intent wasn't to deceive, he would not have made an attempt to "draw" his Ace of Spades in a time-released video where he proceeds to TRACE the design from another image beneath the paper, then ink it in.  I've never seen a designer create unique designs using TRACING PAPER.  The funding stuff is another issue, but yes, he attempted to deceive people about his work's originality and even after being caught continued in his deception rather than owning up to what his work really was.

[Alex Willis]

I just never like to think bad of people, and I have seen some designers use tracing paper over sketches when going to final ink and for free hand illustrators is not really unusual.  In fact I have some sketches ready for inkwork on my desk.  Once I approve them I suspect the artist will throw tracing paper over it and begin inking.  I didn't really read through all the accusations and denials.  I did glean from it that he didn't own up to reusing vintage illustrations.  I'd like to see what his relaunch looks like, if he has one. 

[Don Boyer]

I just never like to think bad of people, and I have seen some designers use tracing paper over sketches when going to final ink and for free hand illustrators is not really unusual.  In fact I have some sketches ready for inkwork on my desk.  Once I approve them I suspect the artist will throw tracing paper over it and begin inking.  I didn't really read through all the accusations and denials.  I did glean from it that he didn't own up to reusing vintage illustrations.  I'd like to see what his relaunch looks like, if he has one.

In this case, the tracing is him copying a pre-existing design that he didn't create, and to this day doesn't own up to the fact that it wasn't his art.  To me, that's pretty "sketchy"...

[Alex Willis]

I just never like to think bad of people, and I have seen some designers use tracing paper over sketches when going to final ink and for free hand illustrators is not really unusual.  In fact I have some sketches ready for inkwork on my desk.  Once I approve them I suspect the artist will throw tracing paper over it and begin inking.  I didn't really read through all the accusations and denials.  I did glean from it that he didn't own up to reusing vintage illustrations.  I'd like to see what his relaunch looks like, if he has one.

In this case, the tracing is him copying a pre-existing design that he didn't create, and to this day doesn't own up to the fact that it wasn't his art.  To me, that's pretty "sketchy"...

You have to admit, he's got some really good tracing skills!  I've tried tracing in one of my many art classes and it's not as easy as it looks.  Then again, i still color outside the lines.

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

I still doubt he traced the final court cards, he had to be using photoshop and or some graphics software. If he had just owned up to it and if he had said they were printed by USPCC - and had a higher goal - I don't think anyone would have complained and he would have hit his goal. Of course I am speculating at this point. I do not have any true read on the thoughts of CY, I am not a mind reader. 

I didn't feel any purposeful deception on his part, in the end I think he wasn't clear in his write up and didn't do his homework in advance - but then after being called on it - he was backed into a corner and never apologized, or showed an ounce of humility.

What do they say? Honesty is the best.... something something? I forget.

[Alex Willis]

What do they say? Honesty is the best.... something something? I forget.

"Honesty is best served with tea and honey."  ... no wait that was cookies.  Honesty had to do policies, ah, I remember now.  "I didn't do it" ~ Richard Nixon and later Bill Clinton and sometime in the future all the presidents after Clinton. 

[GBAllison]

We've all seen project creators who go in with the best of intentions ... and then something bad happens and they disappear.  At that point, the only thing that carries the project is the creator's own personal integrity ... well, or the integrity of others around the creator who can apply some much-needed pressure.

Imagine for a moment that this guy runs into the slightest bit of trouble (say for example, his cost estimates turned out to be wrong).

Do you have confidence in his personal integrity?

None.  Nothing.  Not an ounce.  And just the opposite--I have confidence that he *won't* apply any personal integrity.

This is every KS project that failed and went bad, but this time the red flags were raised *before* the project got funded.  And you got a chance to see how the project creator acts under stress.

It's a shame, because the *concept* was good.

[Rob Wright]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/worldofcy/the-persian-empire-a-new-bicycle-playing-card-deck?ref=users

and it's back.

Now Bicycle branded, still saying spent a year designing 

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

technically a graphic artist could say he "designed" the deck - we don't know that that isn't true. At least this time he didn't say he drew it.



I would get it, if he wasn't a liar - ah well

[Don Boyer]

technically a graphic artist could say he "designed" the deck - we don't know that that isn't true. At least this time he didn't say he drew it.

I would get it, if he wasn't a liar - ah well

And this goofball is charging $9 - for a frickin' Ace of Spades signed by him!  Look at the early birds - $11 for a deck, but $20 if you also want the autograph.  Is this guy stoned, or just stupid?  Anyone backing him is a fool about to be parted from his or her money.

[Alex Willis]

technically a graphic artist could say he "designed" the deck - we don't know that that isn't true. At least this time he didn't say he drew it.

I would get it, if he wasn't a liar - ah well

And this goofball is charging $9 - for a frickin' Ace of Spades signed by him!  Look at the early birds - $11 for a deck, but $20 if you also want the autograph.  Is this guy stoned, or just stupid?  Anyone backing him is a fool about to be parted from his or her money.

He has 234 backers with 38 days to go, I'd say there are a lot of fools ready to seprarate with some cash.  I do like the design a lot, even if the images are tracings of older reference art sources.  I think I can trust that he'd produce them as he is catering to his own community and has a lot of support from family and friends.  I'll star the project and see how it goes.

[Don Boyer]

He has 234 backers with 38 days to go, I'd say there are a lot of fools ready to seprarate with some cash.  I do like the design a lot, even if the images are tracings of older reference art sources.  I think I can trust that he'd produce them as he is catering to his own community and has a lot of support from family and friends.  I'll star the project and see how it goes.

Anyone who lies about his project the way this guy has lied about his is definitely not worth so much as one of my dollars.

[Alex Willis]

He has 234 backers with 38 days to go, I'd say there are a lot of fools ready to seprarate with some cash.  I do like the design a lot, even if the images are tracings of older reference art sources.  I think I can trust that he'd produce them as he is catering to his own community and has a lot of support from family and friends.  I'll star the project and see how it goes.

Anyone who lies about his project the way this guy has lied about his is definitely not worth so much as one of my dollars.

Don't you have one of those magic disappearing dollars?  Sorry, I just watched Burt Wonderstone and now i know everything about magic.

[Rob Wright]

When this first came out, I did like it. The short of it is. This guy is a liar and thief. Supporting him would be no different than buying a TV from a car trunk sale. No way in hell would I back this project.


edit- checked on project after posting. pretty surprised at update. Still not backing.

[Fred]

The project funded $21 over its $13,000 goal in the LAST 3 MINUTES. Apparently (according to one of the backers), there were no new backers in the last 5minutes but $700 was added. Knowing Cy's history of continuously lying and covering up his tracks, i dont know whether to be happy or sad. #confused :/

[Don Boyer]

The project funded $21 over its $13,000 goal in the LAST 3 MINUTES. Apparently (according to one of the backers), there were no new backers in the last 5minutes but $700 was added. Knowing Cy's history of continuously lying and covering up his tracks, i dont know whether to be happy or sad. #confused :/

Be sad.  This guy is such a bullshitter.

He put Magic Finish down as a stretch goal at $17,500.  Magic Finish is STANDARD with ALL CUSTOM DECKS.  You actually have to make a request to NOT have Magic Finish.

I wouldn't trust him to deliver a supermarket circular, never mind a deck.

[xela]

The project funded $21 over its $13,000 goal in the LAST 3 MINUTES. Apparently (according to one of the backers), there were no new backers in the last 5minutes but $700 was added. Knowing Cy's history of continuously lying and covering up his tracks, i dont know whether to be happy or sad. #confused :/

KS fraud is nothing new, and fairly easy to do. There was another project with a laughably low goal and it barely met half of that goal when it maxed out. It remained that way until a few days before the end of the funding period, at which point it got one single pledge worth over $3k and got funded.

I thought it was hilarious, since it was so obviously fraud, but not in the legal sense since there is nothing stopping anyone from making another account and dropping dough on their own project.

[Michael]

The project funded $21 over its $13,000 goal in the LAST 3 MINUTES. Apparently (according to one of the backers), there were no new backers in the last 5minutes but $700 was added. Knowing Cy's history of continuously lying and covering up his tracks, i dont know whether to be happy or sad. #confused :/

KS fraud is nothing new, and fairly easy to do. There was another project with a laughably low goal and it barely met half of that goal when it maxed out. It remained that way until a few days before the end of the funding period, at which point it got one single pledge worth over $3k and got funded.

I thought it was hilarious, since it was so obviously fraud, but not in the legal sense since there is nothing stopping anyone from making another account and dropping dough on their own project.

I'm by no means an expert on KS policy at all but I have heard that backing your own project was against their rules. I'm sure it could be made "illegal." Then again, maybe not

[Don Boyer]

The project funded $21 over its $13,000 goal in the LAST 3 MINUTES. Apparently (according to one of the backers), there were no new backers in the last 5minutes but $700 was added. Knowing Cy's history of continuously lying and covering up his tracks, i dont know whether to be happy or sad. #confused :/

KS fraud is nothing new, and fairly easy to do. There was another project with a laughably low goal and it barely met half of that goal when it maxed out. It remained that way until a few days before the end of the funding period, at which point it got one single pledge worth over $3k and got funded.

I thought it was hilarious, since it was so obviously fraud, but not in the legal sense since there is nothing stopping anyone from making another account and dropping dough on their own project.

I'm by no means an expert on KS policy at all but I have heard that backing your own project was against their rules. I'm sure it could be made "illegal." Then again, maybe not

It is a TOS violation - and one of the reasons the DURAK deck was shut down after hitting the funding threshold.  Funding your own project can also be construed as fraud, which is a crime.  The problem is building the case for it - KS generally tells people who were scammed to go to the authorities, then does nothing.  If enough complaints came up, it could become a Federal matter, especially since most of the funding comes from outside of New York State, where KS is located.  Proving fraud isn't easy, because of how loosely the TOS is worded.

[Michael]

The project funded $21 over its $13,000 goal in the LAST 3 MINUTES. Apparently (according to one of the backers), there were no new backers in the last 5minutes but $700 was added. Knowing Cy's history of continuously lying and covering up his tracks, i dont know whether to be happy or sad. #confused :/

KS fraud is nothing new, and fairly easy to do. There was another project with a laughably low goal and it barely met half of that goal when it maxed out. It remained that way until a few days before the end of the funding period, at which point it got one single pledge worth over $3k and got funded.

I thought it was hilarious, since it was so obviously fraud, but not in the legal sense since there is nothing stopping anyone from making another account and dropping dough on their own project.

I'm by no means an expert on KS policy at all but I have heard that backing your own project was against their rules. I'm sure it could be made "illegal." Then again, maybe not

It is a TOS violation - and one of the reasons the DURAK deck was shut down after hitting the funding threshold.  Funding your own project can also be construed as fraud, which is a crime.  The problem is building the case for it - KS generally tells people who were scammed to go to the authorities, then does nothing.  If enough complaints came up, it could become a Federal matter, especially since most of the funding comes from outside of New York State, where KS is located.  Proving fraud isn't easy, because of how loosely the TOS is worded.

And that's the most disappointing thing about Kickstarter in my opinion. They have a great platform for innovators and designers but fraud it tough on backers. I know we mentioned it before sometime in the past but it's kind of like the early stages of eBay. Great platform but became known for scams cause they had no good security for customers. Obviously if they fix that these fraudulent projects disappear.

[Rob Wright]

Not that I trust this guy one bit, but to be fair he was gaining all most every day, and had 13 new backers and gained almost $800 in the last 24 hours. I guess we all will know for sure come December.

[Mydnyghte]

Well crap

I suppose every noob makes mistakes, and let it be known throughout, this might have been my first one. I back this campaign, and was watching it right down to it's close. And indeed, there were no new backers in the last hour, but in the last 30 seconds, someone pledged just over $600. An existing "backer". Needless to say, I thought it was a tad fishy. Had I seen this thread, or even bothered to check his history, I would have steered clear.

He's had one small update since it's close, where other projects I've seen have rolled out regular updates even after the funding has closed. Guess we will see how this shakes down. Regardless, lesson learned.